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Are we too elitist & doing 99% of newbies a disservice?

Are good at helping enough newbie buyers?


  • Total voters
    100

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,061
Aside from my concerns as a seller, buying a diamond to return it is a risky move.
Loose diamonds are easily lost. Spoken by someone who has spent countless hours on my knees to locate a frisky loose diamond,
If a consumer is taking the diamond they've purchased around to stores to compare, you'd better have a lot of trust in the stores you take it to....switching is a possibility.
Then there's the issue of how this affects business in general- would everyone like to pay more so that a few people can buy and return?
I can totally relate to @dumbo experience. ( my wife's K/SI2 was breathtaking)
Super Ideal stones are amazing! As are many other well-cut diamonds......but one could easily get a different impression reading many posts here.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,161
@dumbo - that sums it up perfectly and what I and a few people have been arguing on these boards for years many many women simply want the BIGGEST cleanest stone they can get for their dollars, they don't care about a super Ideal cut.... and if they have the choice they will go for a larger O.K cut stone over a more expensive super Ideal. Kenny is correct people do vary!!!!!
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,768
Here was my experience when shopping and getting advice here:

Many people were very helpful, but a few brought their own preferences and expectations into the conversation and presented them as "fact".

If I had listened to certain people on this board, I would have thought that:
1) any diamond rated I or worse is basically school-bus yellow
2) any diamond rated VS2 or worse looks like a marshmallow that has caught fire.
3) any diamond not superideal has the light return of a lump of coal.
4) too many posters ignore "value" and look at the question as if there are no trade-offs or that things like VS1 clarity cost a lot of money
5) everyone has different priorities.

I was originally looking at getting something between 3 and 4 carats for my wife's e-ring. I had 2 choices at the price point: around a 3.2 carat from a Super ideal vendor adored here, and a 4 carat from another sponsor vendor that graded out easily at AGS000. The table on the 4 carat was a bit large, as they wanted to keep it at 4.00 carats and not 3.99.

I bought both and planned to keep the one she liked better.

Regarding the poor advice I got:
1) after showing the idealscope and ASET images, even though they were obviously bright and the diamond faced up very well, there was some negative criticism of the cut. In real life, it was every bit as bright as the Superideal we compared it to, with just as much fire. Could an expert pick out a difference? Perhaps? Could she? No.

2) The Superideal graded out as a J, the AGS00 was a K. Again, some people basically said "K, run for the hills"! In real life, there was almost no perceptible difference in color. The K looks bright white compared next to almost anything out there: it is cut very well and provides a lot of bright white reflective light. Sure, next to an E, it will look a bit tinted, but given my budget of $40k, is an E even an option? Sure, 1.5 carats, maybe, and once she saw 4 carats on her finger, there was no consideration of 1.5 carats, no matter the color.

3) my wife loved the fact that it was big and stunning. She gets multiple compliments on it every day. There was no doubt in her mind that she wanted something a color grade worse and ideal instead of superideal in order to gain a carat.

4) my wife's ring is SI2. The inclusions do not affect optical performance in any way, and they are not visible to the naked eye. I have 14/20 vision and cannot detect anything. Again, some here would only buy VS1 or better, but to say that is the way it should be for everyone is just silly. That is a preference, not good buying advice for the masses.

What it came down to with my wife: cut was very important to her, but paying extra for a superideal that big was not worth it when she couldn't notice a difference compared to the AGS000 ideal. Color: K was close to colorless to her eyes. Size: a 4 carat, to her, with all of the light it puts off, easily trumps a color or 2 grade increase. Clarity: anything that isn't visible is not worth paying extra for.

She loves her 4 carat K, SI2. It is stunning in every light.

Since then, we have purchased several M-colored diamonds from Brian Gavin. They are also very bright, with just a hint of warmth, and offer very good value. Those here on this board who diss warmer colored stones don't know what they are missing.

That was my experience. I had to spend a lot of time wading around to find out what was truly useful and what was opinionated armchair-quarterbacking. Sure, I could have put the $35,000 I spent into a 2 carat Superideal in an F color, but it wasn't her preference. We saw a stone like that recently (super clear 2 carat E color for $20k more than I paid for hers) and her comment? It is nice and white, but so tiny!

This... SOOOO MUCH THIS. #preach
 

eapj

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 3, 2017
Messages
592
What an interesting thread! I’m a gem novice and a middle class gal who can’t even dream about many of the stones I see on here. I will say that it can be intimidating to read all about diamonds with high carat weights and high price tags. If I were in the market for a diamond, I would lurk but may not post as I would think my relatively meager budget too small. But that’s on me. I will say that much of the advice I’ve seen given has been very supportive. Some do push their personal position a bit much (online only vendors, cut above all else, etc.) and I can’t say that I disagree but everyone has different wants and needs and some people can’t really tell the difference. Some people are good with a large size and terrible stats while others want a great quality small stone. I suspect that most lurkers get the basics and move on as info about crown angles, etc. can get to be too much.

I spend more time on the CS forum and do like that non-trade ideal is mentioned a lot.

All in all, this is an awesome community and much more welcoming than others I frequent.
 

Polyhex

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2003
Messages
56
Thank you everyone for the warm and kind welcome, and I will reply a few times to respond to a few people.

I do have a few questions for you. You mentioned you felt it was hard to participate partially because of owning a smaller and less valuable stone or piece of jewelry.

I get and agree with MMD's, but in regards to natural stones do you feel the size thing was something the forum was unaccepting of or astigmatism of the owner?
I have not seen anyone be mean about a smaller (let's say .5-1ct) stone. However, in order to create a supportive and enthusiastic environment for smaller stones, a few things need to be true:

  • A lot of postings of smaller or lower budget stones need to exist, so new members don't feel self-conscious as they consider whether or not to post vs. lurk.
  • You need a medium to large forum population of people who enthusiastically have lower budgets and own smaller diamonds, man-made diamonds, or simulants. It's these people who will be genuinely over the moon when someone posts a gorgeous .8 ct stone.
  • This means having a medium to large population of enthusiastic posters who are in college, early-in-career, and middle class. This was true on the defunct predecessor forum that I started on when I was in college.
To cultivate this population, my suggestion for Pricescope would be to 1) significantly reduce the segregation of man-made and simulant stones which primarily appeal to college, early-in-career, and middle class posters, and 2) devote half of the honors like JoTW to lower budget stones.

A few practical steps might be:
  1. Allow man-made diamonds to be posted anywhere with the right descriptor
  2. Show me the Bling is open to man-made diamonds, man-made colored stones, and simulants. The worst interactions I have heard of have been simulants getting "kicked out of" SMtB which of course result in a young Pricescoper never coming back to the site.
 

Polyhex

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2003
Messages
56
@Polyhex Thank you for sharing your opinion!

Please please make a post about your 5 Carat OEC. I’m also toying with the idea to have a diamond recut into an ideal oec. Maybe you could share more about your journey through a post about your beautiful ring?
Thank you so much!! I will, I have been meaning to for months but I have a bunch of videos I need to upload somewhere and learn how to post. Some really cool videos of what a half-cut diamond looks like! I hope to use this vacation week to do it.
 

Polyhex

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2003
Messages
56
FWIW, I'm a cut slut ... thanks to PS :clap: ... no regrets! =)2
I do post my experience and passion about top light performance.
I strongly agree with you that cut is King, and that no one should buy a poorly-cut diamond. The thing is that cut == achieving a desirable visual effect. There are multiple considerations for desirable visual effects:
  • The 'look' of super-ideal vs. ideal vs. 60/60 diamond
  • Skinny vs broad facets, as in modern vs. old cuts
  • Size = ability to see internal geometry
The desirability of seeing the internal geometry of a diamond is, I think, underrated on Pricescope. Looking at beautiful geometry is my most important consideration in a diamond, it makes me feel at peace and in harmony with the world. The size of the diamond is very important for being able to view that geometry with the naked eye. Some of the size differences that are achievable with the same budget, for branded super-ideal vs. other well-cut flavors of stones, are VERY significant.

I think that consumer education quizzes could focus on helping consumers determine visually what's important to them. As an example, this is a common and SUPER MISLEADING visualization of diamond color found many other places:



It makes I look champagne and K look fancy colored!

But this still from an old video by @Rhino tells a very different much more realistic story for well cut diamonds in the position people actually view them:
colordia.PNG

The full video is here:
 

Polyhex

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2003
Messages
56
Many people were very helpful, but a few brought their own preferences and expectations into the conversation and presented them as "fact".

If I had listened to certain people on this board, I would have thought that:
1) any diamond rated I or worse is basically school-bus yellow
2) any diamond rated VS2 or worse looks like a marshmallow that has caught fire.
3) any diamond not superideal has the light return of a lump of coal.
4) too many posters ignore "value" and look at the question as if there are no trade-offs or that things like VS1 clarity cost a lot of money
5) everyone has different priorities.

<snip>

She loves her 4 carat K, SI2. It is stunning in every light.
I strongly agree with your post, and your experience is symptomatic of what I have seen in terms of recommendations boiling down to 2 super-ideal diamonds with tiny differences in color and clarity between them. There is not enough affordance for a poster to express their visual preferences so that other people can tailor their advice. I think that consumer education and posting guides should focus on helping newbies identify and express their visual preferences so they receive the right recommendations. I meant if someone comes in wanting a "good color" diamond with a small budget no one will recommend an L to them, when in reality there are well-cut Ls that typical humans will view as white in all lighting situations which would enable them to get a much much larger diamond!

Seeking size in a well-cut diamond is not bad, it enables the beautiful internal geometry of the diamond to be viewed with the naked eye. Most of the time I am looking at a diamond in a room with other people, I am viewing the geometry, not the scintillation and brilliance.

Like your wife, I would prefer the stunning and well-cut 4 ct K SI2 vs. a significantly smaller stone.
 

dumbo

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
180
You should come back more often and help people find hybrid 59/60 like yours.:kiss2:
I wish I had more time to hang out here, but yes, we somewhat lucked out. Really, her e-ring diamond is simply stunning, and as my wife has a super ideal sizable pendant and earring set from one of the top vendors here, we get to compare them on a daily basis, and to our eyes, they are comparable. Super bright with plenty of fire and contrast. Originally, I thought about sending at some point to a super ideal cutter to pay them to re-cut it, but after seeing it against her other super ideal stones, I really don't think it is worth the money to do so. YMMV, but certainly give some other simply "ideal" stones a chance. I think with super ideal, one doesn't have to do the homework: every diamond will be stunning. With a simply "ideal" stone, you can buy a larger diamond, certainly, and have more options, but the homework needs to be done. Likewise, with SI2, there is a large range of inclusions. Hers are not visible to the naked eye in this stone, but I have seen black SI1 inclusions that were, which would give me pause. Most super ideal vendors won't sell SI2 diamonds; not because they are all "crap" but because of the stigma attached to them. Same with warmer diamonds. I wanted to buy from Whiteflash for her earrings, but they really only had J in stock and said they didn't ever do anything warmer than K; that eliminates a lot of buyers who would rather get something a bit warmer, 2x the size, and let the diamond speak for itself (instead of having a pre-determined view based on a certificate).
 

dumbo

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
180
I strongly agree with you that cut is King, and that no one should buy a poorly-cut diamond. The thing is that cut == achieving a desirable visual effect. There are multiple considerations for desirable visual effects:
  • The 'look' of super-ideal vs. ideal vs. 60/60 diamond
  • Skinny vs broad facets, as in modern vs. old cuts
  • Size = ability to see internal geometry
The desirability of seeing the internal geometry of a diamond is, I think, underrated on Pricescope. Looking at beautiful geometry is my most important consideration in a diamond, it makes me feel at peace and in harmony with the world. The size of the diamond is very important for being able to view that geometry with the naked eye. Some of the size differences that are achievable with the same budget, for branded super-ideal vs. other well-cut flavors of stones, are VERY significant.

I think that consumer education quizzes could focus on helping consumers determine visually what's important to them. As an example, this is a common and SUPER MISLEADING visualization of diamond color found many other places:



It makes I look champagne and K look fancy colored!

But this still from an old video by @Rhino tells a very different much more realistic story for well cut diamonds in the position people actually view them:
colordia.PNG

The full video is here:
Yes, the 2nd picture you posted is by far the more accurate representation. Originally, I bought her a 2.3 ct I AGS000 (more of a fiery ideal cut) and we upgraded it to the K she has now. The I does appear a touch cooler, but again, next to each other, it just isn't significant. Noticeable somewhat, yes; significant: no. Even thought the K 4ct is twice the price and 2 color grades less colorless, she would tell you that the size and overall brightness of that stone is more than an order of magnitude more important than the 2 grade color difference, if that makes sense. She loves the warmer stones (see my other post about the pendant in N color) but sure, all things being equal, a more colorless diamond tends to "pop" slightly more, due probably due to contrast with it's surroundings. It also increases the price exponentially. I am not even sure how much a 4ct H would cost us, but I am guessing 2x what I paid.

These are things you need to see in person, which is tough. We got her e-ring stone through a vendor recommended here (not a super ideal vendor, but one that owns diamonds and isn't simply a drop-shipper) and we have used them both times, for her original e-ring and her upgrade. He tends to find those high value stones, ones that aren't quite at Super Ideal cut specs, but easily AGS000, and often SI2 and in slightly warmer colors, for people like us who are trying to maximize value. We have gone the super ideal route for larger stones, as the price differential is minimal and it is easy to shop; inventory is very good on these mid-sized stones.
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
260
IMHO no-one really knows how well a stone can perform until they have seen the top-performers out there, so ordering one to take along when shopping locally is a wise move. If you prefer the local stone(s), return the 'superideal'.
So let me get this straight... you are encouraging noobies, who know relatively little about diamonds, to spend thousands on credit to buy super-ideals and THEN take them OUT to local jewelry stores where they could lose them or even worse - have them switched and not know any better?

Sounds like a great idea...
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
260
@dumbo - that sums it up perfectly and what I and a few people have been arguing on these boards for years many many women simply want the BIGGEST cleanest stone they can get for their dollars, they don't care about a super Ideal cut.... and if they have the choice they will go for a larger O.K cut stone over a more expensive super Ideal. Kenny is correct people do vary!!!!!
I've done this test with my female friends when i was choosing an e-stone and almost all of them chose the bigger stone (decent GIA XXX) when compared with a smaller but more ideal cut stone.

The overwhelming majority of people in real life are not cut nuts, nor will they be able to discern super-ideal vs an above average GIA XXX (I would even bet the majority of people on this forum wouldn't be able to tell with their eyes unless someone gave them the paper specs).

If the opposite were true, and people really did prefer the look of super-ideal cuts over size, then all the cutters would be cutting for light performance instead of weight. The suppliers and cutters will go in the direction where the greatest demand is.

Cut may be King on PS, but size is King in the real world.
 

mission1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
145
There was a recent thread on here with a fellow newbie (username Gadaph) looking for a diamond on a tight budget...settled for a 0.425ct and there was zero negativity or commenting on this being a small diamond - just positive and helpful advice. There were preferences being stated - i.e. cut, but that's why people come here looking for guidance.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,768
I think that consumer education quizzes could focus on helping consumers determine visually what's important to them. As an example, this is a common and SUPER MISLEADING visualization of diamond color found many other places:



It makes I look champagne and K look fancy colored!
Wow... this is sooo misleading!! No one would buy anything lower than a G if this were accurate!!

I don't know if it's my monitor or what, but that I color looks like an L/M and the K looks like an S/T! ...the G color would be closer to an I, IMO.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,048
So let me get this straight... you are encouraging noobies, who know relatively little about diamonds, to spend thousands on credit to buy super-ideals and THEN take them OUT to local jewelry stores where they could lose them or even worse - have them switched and not know any better?

Sounds like a great idea...
My use of the words 'is a wise choice' was, on reflection, a bit strong. (I was answering quickly so was somewhat rushed.)

Perhaps I should have said "the ability to order a SuperIdeal and then be able to compare it to stones locally, to see if one can see a difference between the cutting styles and whether one has a preference, does bring some benefits if one wishes to take that course of action".

That would also cover off your point in your later post, about whether or not buyers/viewers can see a difference between a superideal and a 'normal' GIA XXX (or whatever) - until one has seen and compared, one cannot be in a position of knowledge and buy fully-informed.


I have seen several instances of members on here take superideals (and other stones ordered online) to local jewellers and compare them to other stone options. I would hope that any reputable jeweller would not even contemplate theft in the manner you propose, especially in the age of the internet and instant feedback / negative news stories, and I don't believe there has ever been more than a couple of instances of swap-theft posted on the forum in all its existence.

Should one exercise caution when dealing with expensive, small, easily-lost items in 'foreign' places (and one's own home)? Of course, but the same is true of one's mobile telephone, one's purse/wallet, one's car keys...

It is an option - it is not for everyone - but I think we should put forward all potential options that may assist a buyer.


If the opposite were true, and people really did prefer the look of super-ideal cuts over size, then all the cutters would be cutting for light performance instead of weight. The suppliers and cutters will go in the direction where the greatest demand is.

Cut may be King on PS, but size is King in the real world.
But if people have never seen the performance of a superideal and are being shown, at best, steep/deep GIA 'XXX' stones that are somewhat leaky under the table and/or looking smaller than their dimensions due to the edges not being bright, how would they know if they prefer the look of a superideal? ;))

Until/unless the market starts actually emphasising cut quality over weight (and by 'cut quality' I mean light performance, not hitting a predefined set/range of angles/measurements that GIA has decided are 'good enough' and which mean their clients don't suffer any immediate financial issues due to potentially lower/decreasing demand for poorer performing stones) carat weight, colour and clarity will continue to be the main factors that decide prices, as far as I can see!
 

winnietucker

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
667
My use of the words 'is a wise choice' was, on reflection, a bit strong. (I was answering quickly so was somewhat rushed.)

Perhaps I should have said "the ability to order a SuperIdeal and then be able to compare it to stones locally, to see if one can see a difference between the cutting styles and whether one has a preference, does bring some benefits if one wishes to take that course of action".

That would also cover off your point in your later post, about whether or not buyers/viewers can see a difference between a superideal and a 'normal' GIA XXX (or whatever) - until one has seen and compared, one cannot be in a position of knowledge and buy fully-informed.


I have seen several instances of members on here take superideals (and other stones ordered online) to local jewellers and compare them to other stone options. I would hope that any reputable jeweller would not even contemplate theft in the manner you propose, especially in the age of the internet and instant feedback / negative news stories, and I don't believe there has ever been more than a couple of instances of swap-theft posted on the forum in all its existence.

Should one exercise caution when dealing with expensive, small, easily-lost items in 'foreign' places (and one's own home)? Of course, but the same is true of one's mobile telephone, one's purse/wallet, one's car keys...

It is an option - it is not for everyone - but I think we should put forward all potential options that may assist a buyer.



But if people have never seen the performance of a superideal and are being shown, at best, steep/deep GIA 'XXX' stones that are somewhat leaky under the table and/or looking smaller than their dimensions due to the edges not being bright, how would they know if they prefer the look of a superideal? ;))

Until/unless the market starts actually emphasising cut quality over weight (and by 'cut quality' I mean light performance, not hitting a predefined set/range of angles/measurements that GIA has decided are 'good enough' and which mean their clients don't suffer any immediate financial issues due to potentially lower/decreasing demand for poorer performing stones) carat weight, colour and clarity will continue to be the main factors that decide prices, as far as I can see!
There are CBIs at select jewelry stores. I kind of don’t pay attention to their website and completely missed that part. One day when I was really going through it I saw they had some near me and went in to see for myself. Being able to see my GIA triple ex, another GIA triple ex, and the CBI all together really helped solidify my decision regarding my recent upgrade. It’s nice that this was no risk to me either.
 

prs

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
1,001
I think that consumer education quizzes could focus on helping consumers determine visually what's important to them. As an example, this is a common and SUPER MISLEADING visualization of diamond color found many other places:



It makes I look champagne and K look fancy colored!

But this still from an old video by @Rhino tells a very different much more realistic story for well cut diamonds in the position people actually view them:
colordia.PNG

The full video is here:
Thank you for posting that GOG video, I learned a lot from it.

I believe this is the perfect example of the kind of educational tool that should be posted as a sticky at the top of RT. The short 20 minute video shows newbies just about everything they need to know about GIA color grades. It would take thousands of written words to explain what this video demonstrates so perfectly. I personally had never realized that well cut, lower color diamonds could be so beautiful. @Rhino is a rock star!!!

Maybe PS could get permission from GOG and AV to post the video? Also to keep that sticky thread alive, members should be allowed and encouraged to post their questions and opinions about color in the thread.
 
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kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
27,738
So let me get this straight... you are encouraging noobies, who know relatively little about diamonds, to spend thousands on credit to buy super-ideals and THEN take them OUT to local jewelry stores where they could lose them or even worse - have them switched and not know any better?

Sounds like a great idea...
No, let's be clear.
Actually we're encouraging noobies to sell their liver, both kidneys, eyes and lungs.
Then since super-ideal cut is so TDF, they should also sell all of their children into slavery so they can buy a 25 carat D IF super-ideal diamond that they throw into the ocean as they shoot themselves in the groin.

We're on a mission here to bring the good news to the world.
 
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Jimmianne

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
5,882
Let’s make this officially scientific. There are two species of Newbie; Newbie onetime engagementata blingus and Newbie nerdus extremeous.
The first stops here to shop then returns to its natural habitat, and the second gets caught up in the wonder of it all and relocates to a cozy corner of PS for life, making a nest which it occasionally refeathers with sparkly things.
Seasoned PS members are advised to gently engage both species, as they can be shy at first.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,049
If the opposite were true, and people really did prefer the look of super-ideal cuts over size, then all the cutters would be cutting for light performance instead of weight. The suppliers and cutters will go in the direction where the greatest demand is.

Cut may be King on PS, but size is King in the real world.
Because they can sell these crappy deep stones to 99% of the suckers out there who knows nothing about well cut stones. I'll always take a well cut stone vs an over fat stone.
 

TheGarnetGirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 13, 2018
Messages
934
Let’s make this officially scientific. There are two species of Newbie; Newbie onetime engagementata blingus and Newbie nerdus extremeous.
The first stops here to shop then returns to its natural habitat, and the second gets caught up in the wonder of it all and relocates to a cozy corner of PS for life, making a nest which it occasionally refeathers with sparkly things.
Seasoned PS members are advised to gently engage both species, as they can be shy at first.
Tread gently when engaging both species; genius!
Problem solved everybody! We can all go home now! ;)2
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,140
I think @Jimmianne makes an important point, and in a rather amusing way!

We may be trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist to any significant degree. Maybe the problem is of a different nature than the subject line of this thread suggests.

Who is the forum serving? Clearly it is serving those people who participate, which can be quantified. But it is also serving the lurker ‘community’, which cannot be quantified. Since there is a tremendous amount of information to be mined on pricescope, it is not really necessary for self-educating consumers to actually post. But they are still benefiting from the discussions here. I’m thinking specifically of the species “engagementata blingus”.:)

They can avail themselves to a whole range of info and opinions without taking any ‘risk’ of posting, (to the extent there is such perceived risk).

Would it be better if they participated, and better yet, if they stuck around after their ‘mission’ is accomplished. DEFINITELY! But, let’s face it, young people have a lot of things competing for their time. Which is another reason why they may want to find a consensus high quality diamond that they can buy online with confidence in a relatively short time window.

Were it not for those who do stick around and offer help and opinion, the forum would be greatly diminished. And, by definition, these are the most passionate enthusiasts and they DO have their preferences! Goes with the territory.

But with relatively few exceptions they are civil and considerate, and are sincerely attempting to help those that come for advice. And moderators do a good job of striking a balance, intervening where necessary without being overbearing.

The way I see it, the problem is not that lurkers are intimidated by ‘elitists’, it is just that not enough of them come back to pay it forward. If we could figure out how to increase the numbers who do so, the forum would be more robust and include a greater diversity of opinion and perspective.
 

Jimmianne

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Dec 9, 2013
Messages
5,882
TL, after reading your post yesterday I put on my thinking cap. It really is a dilemma. I don’t have anything much to offer to solve it, but did get some general ideas.
Could there be a welcome Newbie thread, inviting their questions? And on this thread not overwhelm new posters with details, but gently guide them to the tools.
Rocky talk covers so many issues...perhaps a thread just for first timers??

I hate when someone new posts with a diamond they have bought and immediately someone will tell them they should have come to PS first. Telling them they could have done better. I see us as a support system, so, yes, help them and guide them to a good stone, but don’t make them feel stupid. And don’t give tons of advice and talk about angles and percentages right off the bat.
Like, if someone writes and asks if they bought a good stone, or asks if the stone they are looking at is any good, invite them to plug the numbers into the HCA. Invite them to read a particular writing that is applicable to their situation. Allow them to become enaged in the process. I think that is how people are more likely to connect..

I will be interested to read what others think.
 
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Tonks

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
385
TL, after reading your post yesterday I put on my thinking cap. It really is a dilemma. I don’t have anything much to offer to solve it, but did get some general ideas.
Could there be a welcome Newbie thread, inviting their questions? And on this thread not overwhelm new posters with details, but gently guide them to the tools.
Rocky talk covers so many issues...perhaps a thread just for first timers??

I hate when someone new posts with a diamond they have bought and immediately someone will tell them they should have come to PS first. Telling them they could have done better. I see us as a support system, so, yes, help them and guide them to a good stone, but don’t make them feel stupid. And don’t give tons of advice and talk about angles and percentages right off the bat.
Like, if someone writes and asks if they bought a good stone, or asks if the stone they are looking at is any good, invite them to plug the numbers into the HCA. Invite them to read a particular writing that is applicable to their situation. Allow them to become enaged in the process. I think that is how people are more likely to connect..

I will be interested to read what others think.
Loving the idea of a dedicated newbie area and brainstorming thoughts:

A newbie forum (as opposed to a thread) might work, too. That way you could have a number of pinned posts at the top like Rhino’s helpful video above. And longtime members would (in theory) know to tread gently) with people in the whole forum.

One other format option that comes to mind is a learning library. I don’t know how we would do it within the constraints of the current forum setup. I run several Facebook groups, and they have recently introduced social learning units, and that is a beautiful structure for this kind of thing. You can set it up almost like chapters of a book—Unit 1 and subfiles, videos, pdfs, etc., Unit 2 and the same, etc. The idea is that you work your way through the units in order.

If there were a way to set up something similar here (or offer an adjunct FB group, maybe), that would be incredible.
 

meesmom

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
158
This statement is so very true. There are so many really well meaning and smart savvy folk contribute here on PriceScope to guide people in buying and selecting a top diamond, I think we have a huge problem.
1. Less than 1% of visitors ever sign up and post.
2. The advice we give here is often way over the top and complex for non rocket scientist woman/man in the street.
3. Many young people in love are worried about making the life time commitment choice. Working long hours etc in their new career. They just want to make a quick safe and simple OK selection.

They may not have time to learn our jargon or the desire to spend scarce spare brain power.

We can be way too elitist.

I think we could help 50 times more people get a good enough diamond and setting at a considerable saving without getting 'enchanted' out of their money.
Hello!
I think the senario above did happen for me. It may not happen all the time, but maybe i got lucky?
As a "novice" someone who was helped immensely from this site, I took in what i could understand, and passed on the ultra technical stuff. I was never made to think my choices were "less than", but i was gently steered in a better direction. I never felt pressure to buy a brand or specific cut formula. Would an "elite" pricescoper buy my diamond? Prob not. But I wouldnt have my near ideal diamond, which i adore, without the help these ladies gave me.
Thank you!
 
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