Are rings too thin these days?

[Michael_E]

This is great info to know. let me ask you, how much of a role does the softness of the metal play with all of this? I know you mentioned platinum earlier, but is there a point to consider 18K or dare I say even 14K gold w/ some of these thinner bands? would that make any major difference.

Softness in metals indicates a resistance to bending and twisting, but there is also a measurable property called toughness. Platinum is softer than any other jewelry metal, but is also much tougher, meaning that it can be bent more without breaking. In a well designed and fabricated ring the type of metal will be taken into account and so the metal type should not matter.

I also noticed in the picture you posted you mentioned the upside down pyramid as one of the major issues when it comes to damaging the ring. Do you think that as much of a risk exists rings that don't come down all in one place but have more of a "doughnut" Is this a bit safer than the inverted pyramid? or is there a way to secure the crown better and get this look besides making the band a bit wider?

Basically, the wider the base of the inverted pyramid, the less concentrated the stress at that point. Smaller stress equals less problems. Each of the rings shown seem to be well designed and the pictures can be a bit deceiving. The first ring shown with the red stone has a wider base than just one spot, which is good. The band appears at first glance to be very thin, but looking close it appears that the band is deeper than it appears, due to the curvature of the band. This ring will probably show good life as long as it's use is confined to dinner parties and looking pretty. If you tried wearing this every day and were not quite careful, you might have some problems depending on how rough you are.

How can this ring be made better?

I don't think that it can be made better. For this style, everything works. The base of the pyramid is well designed and attached to the band and the band, although thin, is deep enough to withstand modest forces of wear. Again it all depends on how much you wear it and under what conditions.

[/quote]

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Michael E. thanks so much for all you've taught us here.
I'm surprised other vendors have not spoken up but perhaps they see this topic as a lose/lose for their business, and wish it would just go away.

Everyone I know is aware I'm into diamonds so they ask me for referrals about diamonds and rings for their family and friends.
My referrals, here and in real life, made have probably put a lot of coin into the pockets of companies I've bought from like WF, GOG, Boonerings, Gelin Abaci, and Leibish.

After seeing how forthcoming and honest Michael E. has been on this sensitive topic, guess whom I'll be recommending when asked whom to go to for delicate settings?

Kenny, I think since it is the weekend, many of the vendors aren't on the forum. In addition, somebody mentioned a show in Tucson going on now. Maybe we'll hear from more of them early in the week.

I did look at Michael E.'s site but it did not appear that he makes handmade settings. Is that correct Michael?

 

[Michael_E]

Let me ask you, how does one go about demanding all these things from a jeweler they like and want to continue working with? what's the best way to approach all of this before demanding it in writing, that can just be so awkward at times and where's the line of demanding too much and sounding a bit loopy?

Well I used the wrong word. "Demand" is too strong. What you need to do is to have an honest conversation about what you expect, what is reasonable to expect and everything else surrounding your purchase from a vendor. When you get right down to it, you and the vendor want the same thing, (or should). That is for you to be happy with what you get from them. The first part of that is that you should be happy and comfortable in having a conversation with them. It doesn't matter if you're loopy or asking what you think are odd questions and the jeweler shouldn't mind, since it's just part of the job. In fact you should be so comfortable with them and trust what they are saying, that the whole "in writing" deal is not needed, (but can help as a reminder of what was promised). By that I mean that both you and they KNOW that if you have a problem that they will be happy to fix it. The reason from the vendors point of view is that they have made a promise of a certain quality level and they MUST keep it to keep you as a customer. This is not an insurance policy and can't cover things that insurance should, (car doors slamming on rings, rings spinning in disposals, etc.), but does cover things like design or fabrication problems leading to flexing metal and loose stones.

In "The Trade" your word is everything. People don't send you thousands of dollars worth of stuff on your word if they can't trust you. It's the same from any quality vendor to you. We NEED you and we need you to be HAPPY. Because of that, a quality vendor MUST back up what they've promised with some positive action in the case of a problem. You shouldn't have to force the issue, or feel funny about asking for a fix. Just make sure to pick a vendor who has that outlook, as most all of those being referred to on this forum do.

 

[Matthewmon]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gog-avc-meets-leon-mege-my-ring-is-here.143140/?hilit=treebean']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gog-avc-meets-leon-mege-my-ring-is-here.143140/?hilit=treebean[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reset-by-leon-mege-antique-calibre-band-w-tiffany-metro.150452/?hilit=antique%20calibre']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reset-by-leon-mege-antique-calibre-band-w-tiffany-metro.150452/?hilit=antique%20calibre[/URL]

how do i decide if a 1.4-1.5mm antique calibre band like the 2 I've seen posted here is durable enough? both owners say they feel the ring is sturdy but have had their settings less than a year I believe. thanks!

 

[CherryBlossom]

Yes, many vendors are in Tuscon over the next few days due to some trade gem show.

 

[slg47]

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gog-avc-meets-leon-mege-my-ring-is-here.143140/?hilit=treebean

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reset-by-leon-mege-antique-calibre-band-w-tiffany-metro.150452/?hilit=antique%20calibre']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reset-by-leon-mege-antique-calibre-band-w-tiffany-metro.150452/?hilit=antique%20calibre[/URL]

how do i decide if a 1.4-1.5mm antique calibre band like the 2 I've seen posted here is durable enough? both owners say they feel the ring is sturdy but have had their settings less than a year I believe. thanks!

1.4 mm is really thin. it depends on what 'durable enough' for you is. personally, I would stick with 2 mm.

 

[Michael_E]

Kenny, I think since it is the weekend, many of the vendors aren't on the forum. In addition, somebody mentioned a show in Tucson going on now. Maybe we'll hear from more of them early in the week.

I did look at Michael E.'s site but it did not appear that he makes handmade settings. Is that correct Michael?

That's true, I imagine that most of the vendors are off buying fabulous jewels in Tucson right now. I couldn't make it this year, maybe next year. I'm sure that this thread will blow up when they get wind of it. Ha, I beat them to it!

Yes, I do make whatever a client wants, (within reason of course), including handmade pieces in any precious metal.

My website is a problem as I wanted to be able to control and changes things at will. The problem is that I'm not so hot at web site creation and so it's a bit of a problem and is in constant need of change...there's just never enough time!

 

[yssie]

Michael - thank you for sharing your expertise here! You bring up points - angle and meet point of prongs - that I wouldn't have thought to be concerned about had I chosen that type of head, and I'm as much of a worrywart as the next PSer..

 

[CherryBlossom]

Michael - thank you for sharing your expertise here! You bring up points - angle and meet point of prongs - that I wouldn't have thought to be concerned about had I chosen that type of head

Seconded.

Thank you so much Michael, valuable info

BTW, I don't know why but I can't figure out what his company/site is and I don't know all the vendors that are on here. Could someone tell me the name of his site? or is that not allowed to be direclty posted in these threads?

 

[kenny]

Michael E. thanks so much for all you've taught us here.
I'm surprised other vendors have not spoken up but perhaps they see this topic as a lose/lose for their business, and wish it would just go away.

Everyone I know is aware I'm into diamonds so they ask me for referrals about diamonds and rings for their family and friends.
My referrals, here and in real life, made have probably put a lot of coin into the pockets of companies I've bought from like WF, GOG, Boonerings, Gelin Abaci, and Leibish.

After seeing how forthcoming and honest Michael E. has been on this sensitive topic, guess whom I'll be recommending when asked whom to go to for delicate settings?

Kenny, I think since it is the weekend, many of the vendors aren't on the forum. In addition, somebody mentioned a show in Tucson going on now. Maybe we'll hear from more of them early in the week.

I did look at Michael E.'s site but it did not appear that he makes handmade settings. Is that correct Michael?

Thanks DS.
Good point!

 

[suchende]

Kenny, I think since it is the weekend, many of the vendors aren't on the forum. In addition, somebody mentioned a show in Tucson going on now. Maybe we'll hear from more of them early in the week.

I did look at Michael E.'s site but it did not appear that he makes handmade settings. Is that correct Michael?

That's true, I imagine that most of the vendors are off buying fabulous jewels in Tucson right now. I couldn't make it this year, maybe next year. I'm sure that this thread will blow up when they get wind of it. Ha, I beat them to it!

Yes, I do make whatever a client wants, (within reason of course), including handmade pieces in any precious metal.

My website is a problem as I wanted to be able to control and changes things at will. The problem is that I'm not so hot at web site creation and so it's a bit of a problem and is in constant need of change...there's just never enough time!

I do like the new(er) layout though. I hadn't been by in a year or two and just checked out what you have up now.

http://www.gemshoppe.com/ for the unfamiliar

 

[luv2sparkle]

I so appreciate all the info in this thread. I think I will be a little more careful with my ring. I do find it interesting that
I asked for a wider ring-2.5 mm and Leon wouldn't make it. He said the widest he would go was 2.2 mm. That is what I went with.
I would then assume, without knowing to ask, that this would be a width that would hold up for a lifetime.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks, Michael! I look forward to seeing your gems when you post them. And I suggest that you include some pictures of rings you have made!

 

[Imdanny]

iirc that's a Harry Winston ring. As someone said, wear it like a princess would and then put it in a safe. I have a hard time believing it was meant for soccer, grocery shopping, etc.

I'm all for the consumer education ahead of the fact (!) but to me it seems like a balancing act. You can't suspend the laws of physics.

 

[Harriet]

I so appreciate all the info in this thread. I think I will be a little more careful with my ring. I do find it interesting that
I asked for a wider ring-2.5 mm and Leon wouldn't make it. He said the widest he would go was 2.2 mm. That is what I went with.
I would then assume, without knowing to ask, that this would be a width that would hold up for a lifetime.

Interesting! See GreenwithEnvy's post on my thread in which she stated that he wanted her shank to be ultra-thin.

 

[Green with Envy]

I would think Lm would only go to a max of 2.2mm because that is what is in proportion with a particular stone.

I asked for a wider shank than what he recommended and ended up with a shank that is 2.4mm at the bottom and at the widest point where it meets the head it is 2.6mm. I got three sided brightset (it is 1.9mm deep) and I love it. I DID have a prong loose so the diamond spinned in setting, but it has been fixed. Those thin prongs are what really makes me nervous... but think prongs look terrible (IMO).

 

[CharmyPoo]

Lots of action and I must admit I didn't read everything in detail. Just glanced a bunch of posts and saw mine quoted a few times.

Just wanted to clarify a few things. I am on the same side and believe that jewellers should educate and make buyers aware of the risks associated with specific designs. They should be honest and upfront - an average consumer will not be aware of the risks. I am also of the belief that if the buyer is made aware of the risks and decide to proceed - the need to live with the potential consequences. That is all I am saying.

So .. the day my rings fall apart (could happen) - I will still post about my sadness but I also know that my jewelers told me so. Someone can call me out on it if I start whining and complaining

 

[yssie]

Cheers charmy I hope quoting you didn't make you very uncomfortable. And I agree w/ you btw - you made an educated choice for yourself, and I really think that's the point of this thread - it can't be the *wrong* choice if you've thought it all through, so long as you've thought it all through. *Generic you.

 

[Ice Princess]

Lots of action and I must admit I didn't read everything in detail. Just glanced a bunch of posts and saw mine quoted a few times.

Just wanted to clarify a few things. I am on the same side and believe that jewellers should educate and make buyers aware of the risks associated with specific designs. They should be honest and upfront - an average consumer will not be aware of the risks. I am also of the belief that if the buyer is made aware of the risks and decide to proceed - the need to live with the potential consequences. That is all I am saying.

So .. the day my rings fall apart (could happen) - I will still post about my sadness but I also know that my jewelers told me so. Someone can call me out on it if I start whining and complaining

I will add to this by saying, artists are not given enough credit and faith in their work. Clients will see a design they love and want it re-created exactly, but by the time they confirm this, they've altered the design at least a dozen times.

Clients often feel that they have a right to get what they want b/c they're paying the $$$ so in turn, the designer will create what the client wants.....regardless of whether it looks right, or is practical.

But at the end of the day, I do think that there is such a thing as "too thin" but who's to stop pushing these limits?

 

[CharmyPoo]

Charmypoo, no offense (I swear!) but I've seen your beautiful rings over the past few months. You had the privilege to be blessed enough to be provided with the option to take your time looking for a designer and had your e-ring redesigned more than 2x. But most people out there simply cannot afford having two rings made multiple times by two different designers. And they do not have the option to switch one out for the other. They are only able to make this purchase once and want to make sure that it's done right. The reason why they come up with the funds to pay for the premiums of a more expensive designers like Leon Mege (and others that they learn about via this site) is because they assume that these vendors do EVERYTHING well (both aesthetically AND structurally)

I wasn't going to respond but then feel the need to clarify a few things. If I had it my way, I would only want one ring made by one designer ONCE. The multple remakes have caused unnecessary stress. I did not make dedicated threads discussing the problem and the resolution of both my rings. However, I feel like I need to explain myself. Unlike others, I didn't really change my mind as we have always wanted one design based on the first ring we tried on together.

My first ring was suppose to be my only ring but the designer was not able to execute what we discussed - we then had the ring remade in a design that she was able to execute. My heart still wanted the original design that my fiance picked out which is when we decided to go to Leon to make me the ring. Leon ended up making the wrong design and he remade the ring at no cost to us. For us, we felt we probably should have went to Leon to begin with and would have ended up with the ring we wanted ... I was scared off by the negative threads on PS about his personality. I am plesantly surprised that I get along fine with Leon and dispite the error on his part ... I still got what I wanted and no major damage to my life.

So am I in the same boat as others - I think so. I was lead to believe that my design would be executed asethetically but it wasn't. In the end, the jeweller done right by me and I am a satisfied customer so I am not going to whine and complain about it. My second incident was just a mistake but the jeweller also made it right ... so again, I am not going to complain about it - I am very happy with the ring now.

Yes, we are lucky to be able to get the ring we (or I) always wanted but I sure would rather not spend the extra money to get what I wanted to begin with.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Clients often feel that they have a right to get what they want b/c they're paying the $$$ so in turn, the designer will create what the client wants.....regardless of whether it looks right, or is practical.

But at the end of the day, I do think that there is such a thing as "too thin" but who's to stop pushing these limits?

I had some crazy ideas and Leon told me straight up that it just won't look right or really not pratical for an e-ring. I appreciate his feedback because he is right and I am glad I didn't go there. We spent a lot of time going back and forth until we came into agreement on a design that worked for both of us.

Other jewellers have also told me no but in some instances I pushed the limit and I don't regret my decision. My jewelery is purely for asethetic and all my more expensive pieces are insured.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I would think Lm would only go to a max of 2.2mm because that is what is in proportion with a particular stone.

I asked for a wider shank than what he recommended and ended up with a shank that is 2.4mm at the bottom and at the widest point where it meets the head it is 2.6mm. I got three sided brightset (it is 1.9mm deep) and I love it. I DID have a prong loose so the diamond spinned in setting, but it has been fixed. Those thin prongs are what really makes me nervous... but think prongs look terrible (IMO).

Well, I don't think that is the issue at all. It appeals to Leon's design esthetic. That is the issue. He has stated in his catalog,
that he finds thinner bands more elegant. While I think they are nice looking, I don't necessarily think they are more elegant.
My ring is also 3 sided brightset, with a 2.57, 8.8 x 8.9 mm. I think it most certainly could have been a tad wider without
losing the look. But it was what Leon thought was right for his design. He as an eye for that proportion and detail, so I didn't
argue with him. I expected that the pave would be a bit more delicate, but I had no idea that there may be an issue with the
structural integrity. I have been wearing it for about 7 months so the jury is still out on that one as far as I am concerned.
It is obvious to me that I will need to be a little more careful. Even in holding weights I do not grip tightly and I am doing
that at home. My earlier wedding sets have been in gold and I have never taken one tiny bit of care in wearing them, without
ever a problem. My thought was that platinum would even be stronger so going thinner would not be a problem. It just shows
how wrong I could be.

 

[Ice Princess]

Clients often feel that they have a right to get what they want b/c they're paying the $$$ so in turn, the designer will create what the client wants.....regardless of whether it looks right, or is practical.

But at the end of the day, I do think that there is such a thing as "too thin" but who's to stop pushing these limits?

I had some crazy ideas and Leon told me straight up that it just won't look right or really not pratical for an e-ring. I appreciate his feedback because he is right and I am glad I didn't go there. We spent a lot of time going back and forth until we came into agreement on a design that worked for both of us.

Other jewellers have also told me no but in some instances I pushed the limit and I don't regret my decision. My jewelery is purely for asethetic and all my more expensive pieces are insured.

You have/had the sense to listen & were open to ideas. This isn't true of everyone.

I'm also an artist (I work with glass) & I've had some questionable requests from clients. But that's the risk you take when you offer items as a 'bespoke' or request. Creativity dies somewhat as you're not following your creative muse but rather, the wants of a client.

 

[clgwli]

I admit I do wonder about these super delicate and think shanks I've seen at times. I had an amethyst ring that was set in platinum. The band tapered to a very narrow shank along the bottom of the ring. It was somewhere near 1.5mm IIRC. I don't have it anymore so I can't measure. The width was not only wide, but it was also very thin too. So in both dimensions it wasn't very thick. I never gave it much thought until I noticed it started to bend a little.

At that time I decided to change which finger I wore it on and so the jeweler fixed the ring while sizing it a bit larger for me (about a 1/2 size) With in 2 years of wearing it not daily, the shank became so warped that I would have needed the whole shank replaced. It had a few other issues with the prongs as well and the stone became badly scratched. The ring was not fixable per two jewelers, so i the end I scrapped the ring.

Ever since then I am very cautious on what I wear and have made for me. Delicate may be lovely, but I always worry about what will happen years down the road.

Sometimes I think I have to be hard on my hands to have done *that* much damage to my ring. Then again I look at sterling I have owned for decades and notice that very few have ever gotten that bent out of shape. I also have a 14K channel set band (not eternity)that I've worn daily for about 7 years. It's approx 3mm wide and 1mm thick. Other than some scratched along the bottom it still looks great.

I'm sentimental with my rings. I cried when the amethyst ring had to be scrapped (and held on to it for years and years before I finally let it go). This anniversary band of mine though is holding up well. So I am of the mind that I'd rather have a bit more metal on my piece to make sure it lasts. Fortunately I have more simplistic tastes so having more metal is fine by me.

My jeweler did not warn me that the shank was too narrow or thin. The cynical part of me thinks that most jewelers would not. Particularly the ones that do not have a good warranty on their peices. I would imagine the ones that do would warn you not to go too thin as others mentioned. Why would they want to assume the risk?

 

[Jennifer W]

From a customer service perspective, this can be quite difficult. People want certain designs, and people expect rings to be durable. Neither of these is unreasonable, but there is a balance to be struck. It isn't in anyone's interests for us to send out rings that we know will likely come back. Design and durability need to be balanced. If that means saying no sometimes, then so be it.

That said, we have literally thousands of rings out there, so we'd know if a particular design was causing a problem. I know this thread isn't specifically about micro pave and stone loss, but perhaps worth mentioning that we have not found thinner shanks to be more susceptible to stone loss than thicker ones- although yes, thinner shanks are easier to bend. A lot of problems occur due to the height of the head too, as it can catch on things and twist the ring out of round and if someone wants a really high ring, we have to discuss that with them.

Again, it needs to be a balance between design and aesthetic, because our lifetime warranty policy means we're assuming almost all of the risk.

 

[TravelingGal]

Great thread! I'm all for helping out in the name of education, so I'll put my Leon out there.

Some notes real quick

- I had a good experience with Leon
- I gave no input to the ring design, so this is all Leon's vision
- The prongs look wonky in the pics, but it's because the stone is native cut and the girdle is very off
- I am still happy with the ring

That being said,The ring is very thin. I'd say 1.7 at the most, and thinnest at the base of the shank both in widith and thickness. That's the part that concerns me most as I see it as quite the weak point. I wear this ring often, although not all day unless I am out. I don't take much care in terms of care, meaning I wear it if I want to wash a dish, or do a task with my hands. I have also traveled with this ring, which means I leave it on when I sleep for fear of losing it. That probably means I've banged the ring around in my sleep as well.

I have had the ring for 1 year, 4 months. A few months in, I noticed the ring was "mashed" in on one side. A few months after that, it was mashed in on the other side, evening out the mashed look a bit. The prongs and security of the stones still looks OK, but it's obviously no longer perfectly round. Two pics below, one of the ring by itself and one of the ring with a couple of others I own so you can clearly see what's a circle and what's not. I'll post the pics after this post as it's been eaten once already....

 

[TravelingGal]

Sorry, had technical difficulties

OK, here they are. Will this ring be durable enough that I can pass it down to Amelia, as intended? I honestly don't know. But I do know that I still love wearing it.

 

[TravelingGal]

Here's the other (computer acting up so posting them in two different posts!)

 

[basil]

Interesting thread. While I guess it's probably true that thinner settings are more prone to issues than thicker ones, I don't think it's true that all thin settings are destined to have problems if worn daily.

I have had 2 copies of Ritani Endless Love with pave...I think it's like 1.8mm on the shank? I didn't ever measure it though. I had one copy from 2006-2009 and then it was lost/stolen and I got another then as a replacement and have that now. I wear them daily though take them off for sleep and housecleaning. I've never lost a stone or had a loose prong and the ring is still round. Granted that's not equivalent to 20 years, but plenty of people have this ring and I've maybe only once (?) heard of a problem...whereas some others seem to have problems with their settings from other jewelers/manufacturers at a higher rate.

Some people here seem to be suggesting that it's not possible to make a thin durable setting. But I think it is - maybe not by all jewelers and maybe with some compromises in design (maybe a lot of people think their Leon is prettier than my Ritani) - but it's not totally inevitable that a thinner setting will end up warped and with stones falling out all over.

 

[yssie]

Edit - basil please see explanation on page2.