Another OEC Question -- Pics Included!

[yennyfire]

I think it's getting harder and harder to find good deals. That said though, getting a good "deal"isn't so good if you're not in love with either the stone or the setting. It's not easy to figure out what to do!

 

[kennedy]

Thanks Gypsy and LGK!

Your feedback has been very helpful! I contacted the ring seller this morning to tell her I'm going to return the ring. The bummer is that, having seen Neil's pics of the setting, I really do love it, especially the side view. I wish I could put the OWD diamond in there instead.

Anyway, I am not sure what to do about the OWD stone. I still need to find a mounting for it which is no easy task. Plus it seems to be insanely overpriced. Has anyone had any luck negotiating with Adam?

 

[kennedy]

So yeah- I do wonder if the OWD stone is actually as bad a deal as the appraiser says? Can you poke around a bit more online to compare before you have to decide? Because otherwise, it does look like it is a nicely cut OEC. But that is a big price difference...

Yeah, I'll do some poking around over the weekend and Neil says that he's going to double check his work to make sure his numbers are correct. Seems doubtful that he would be off by 2k. Sigh, this is really frustrating!

Would you say the OWD stone is top notch? Amongst the best? Because I don't want to pay for top dollar for anything less!

 

[Gypsy]

First, if you love the setting... it's a prong set setting. I'd ask the seller if she'll sell it to you without the center stone. See what she says.

Just as an FYI... I would offer the seller of that ring the appraisal by Neil if she wants it. It dates the setting, gives a good price on it, and also confirms the stone's grading. I'd offer it to her for 80 bucks and see if she wants it. It's not like you need it anymore, right?

Regarding Adam, I think you don't know how receptive a person is to negotiating until you try.

I'd approach it like this:

Hi Adam I just got the appraisal from Neil. From the pictures it appears to be a pretty stone and Neil agrees with the EGL grading (if he does). The issue is that Neil is a very fair and independent appraiser and in his opinion the stone's value is significantly less than what I paid. That leaves us (use the US) with two options: the first is that I can return the stone and keep hunting, the second is that I keep the stone and we negotiate a price closer to the appraised value. I've attached the appraisal here. How would you like to proceed?

Ball's in his court then.

 

[Gypsy]

Whoops sorry. I thought that was the OWD stone. Nevermind.

If it were ME... I'd send this link to BGD and ask Brian if he thinks that there might be a chance that he can have this recut to better symetry and light return while keeping old cut faceting (he did this for me on my necklace stone). It's deep enough that I think it might be a decent recut candidate. Then he can polish it and give it some TLC... and you would have a top cut OEC. At a good price. I think his recuts are 250 a carat.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350449439924?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

[Dreamer_D]

Are you set on an old setting? Because this company here seems to have very nice reproductions for good prices:
http://platinumplusdesigns.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=209

I would try what Gypsy suggests for the OWD stone. I don't think I would go for a recut on the stone in the ring since you can probably find another OEC if you keep looking and are patient (hard I know ) I am not a very risk taking person so don't think I would opt for a recut on the other stone either because of the chance of it being damaged, but it is a good option if you don't mind the risk.

 

[kennedy]

Gypsy -- that letter is great! Neil just reworked the numbers and upped the value to $4900 -- that's still a $1300 difference. Neil said the stone is "nice", but not amongst the finest he's seen. I'm not sure what would make it finer -- it looks pretty nice to me -- but I'm no expert. He said finer stones are hard to find, but they do exist. I guess I just don't know how to find them and then there's the cost of getting them appraised to know they're finer. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised Neil wasn't wild about Adam's pick. Sigh.This went from being something fun to being torturous.

The recut is an interesting idea, but I honestly don't know if I can handle the stress of the uncertainty.

Dreamer -- Yes, patience is hard. Especially with diamond prices climbing. And I'm not really sure where to keep looking. I feel like I'm the type of person who should probably stick to established business like OWD, JbEG, etc. even if it means paying more.

 

[LGK]

I suspect that the OWD stone is really nice, probably top 10% of OEC cuts. And that's pretty great. Because, TBH, *most* of the OECs you see are just... meh, about what the stone in the setting from Nikki looks like. Not absolutely killer cut, not ugly, just average- and usually you can notice some not-so-great aspects if you look. The OWD stone looks like it doesn't have any glaring issues, it looks like the center is going to return light. I'm not sure what Neil would categorize as "better", but personally, if a stone has edge-to-edge light return/fire, the center facets flash when you move it a little bit, and the pattern is pretty? That's what I look for. I suspect the OWD stone has that, the ASET certainly suggests it. I do have a certain level of "good-enough" with OEC cuts, you know?

I think asking Nikki for the setting is a really great idea! It's gorgeous. I'd be tempted to keep the OWD stone, especially if you can get some $ back. (I'd be surprised though, Adam has never negotiated as far as I know.) But yeah, I would look around and see if there's anything else and decide to return the OWD stone based on what else is available out there. I mean, OECs have been *really* popular lately which drives the price up typically... which makes shopping frustrating!

 

[MrsBettyBoop]

What a hard decision! That setting is actually much prettier than I originally thought but I don't love that diamond at all. The OWD stone is gorgeous but a little pricey I think *I* would start over. If you do decide to keep one, stop looking right away! So you don't regret anything.

 

[Gypsy]

https://www.artdecodiamonds.com/products.php?id=2191&l=0&u=2147483647&sortway=asc I think this one kicks serious arse but... it's 9K-- close to AGS0 pricing for RBs. It's a GIA H VS2 though and the patterning of it is to die for. Still... this is what *I* would guess (best guess I can make without an ASET of it) it's closer to Neil's "top." But you have to remember who you are talking about... this is a guy who stares at stones ALL. DAY. LONG.

 

[LGK]

https://www.artdecodiamonds.com/products.php?id=2191&l=0&u=2147483647&sortway=asc I think this one kicks serious arse but... it's 9K-- close to AGS0 pricing for RBs. It's a GIA H VS2 though and the patterning of it is to die for. Still... this is what *I* would guess (best guess I can make without an ASET of it) it's closer to Neil's "top." But you have to remember who you are talking about... this is a guy who stares at stones ALL. DAY. LONG.

And even more confusingly- I don't care for this one. It has way too big a table and not enough culet and I'd call it verging on a TC. Which, oddly enough, after owning one I've discovered I don't really love TCs. So, if it were me, I'd pass on it. But you see? That's alllll personal taste right there! At a certain point, personal taste takes over and nuances of cut are kind of a wash- like, what Neil calls "top OEC cut" may not be what I like best or what you like best. I like fire, lots of fire, and less brilliance... which is why TCs don't do it for me. They're often like little flashlights beaming white light out everywhere. Neil might like a good balance of fire and brilliance, and a more closed culet than I prefer... or whatever.

 

[Gypsy]

Erica (Coati) has my favorite old cut ever. But that one is close to an transitional, you are right. I probably love it because it reminds me of surfergirls.

 

[MrsBettyBoop]

https://www.artdecodiamonds.com/products.php?id=2191&l=0&u=2147483647&sortway=asc I think this one kicks serious arse but... it's 9K-- close to AGS0 pricing for RBs. It's a GIA H VS2 though and the patterning of it is to die for. Still... this is what *I* would guess (best guess I can make without an ASET of it) it's closer to Neil's "top." But you have to remember who you are talking about... this is a guy who stares at stones ALL. DAY. LONG.

And even more confusingly- I don't care for this one. It has way too big a table and not enough culet and I'd call it verging on a TC. Which, oddly enough, after owning one I've discovered I don't really love TCs. So, if it were me, I'd pass on it. But you see? That's alllll personal taste right there! At a certain point, personal taste takes over and nuances of cut are kind of a wash- like, what Neil calls "top OEC cut" may not be what I like best or what you like best. I like fire, lots of fire, and less brilliance... which is why TCs don't do it for me. They're often like little flashlights beaming white light out everywhere. Neil might like a good balance of fire and brilliance, and a more closed culet than I prefer... or whatever.

+1 on this but I couldn't put my finger on it. You explained it so well.

 

[kennedy]

I suspect that the OWD stone is really nice, probably top 10% of OEC cuts. And that's pretty great. Because, TBH, *most* of the OECs you see are just... meh, about what the stone in the setting from Nikki looks like. Not absolutely killer cut, not ugly, just average- and usually you can notice some not-so-great aspects if you look. The OWD stone looks like it doesn't have any glaring issues, it looks like the center is going to return light. I'm not sure what Neil would categorize as "better", but personally, if a stone has edge-to-edge light return/fire, the center facets flash when you move it a little bit, and the pattern is pretty? That's what I look for. I suspect the OWD stone has that, the ASET certainly suggests it. I do have a certain level of "good-enough" with OEC cuts, you know?

I think asking Nikki for the setting is a really great idea! It's gorgeous. I'd be tempted to keep the OWD stone, especially if you can get some $ back. (I'd be surprised though, Adam has never negotiated as far as I know.) But yeah, I would look around and see if there's anything else and decide to return the OWD stone based on what else is available out there. I mean, OECs have been *really* popular lately which drives the price up typically... which makes shopping frustrating!

I thought about asking the seller to sell the setting separately, but I really doubt she would. And based on her last email to me after I told her I was returning the ring, I don't think she would be receptive to much more communication. Plus, the setting would have to be expensive to make it worth her while and then I would have very little left for the center stone. She just listed the ring again and I have to say the pictures make me second guess my decision. The center stone looks pretty and I love the setting, but I really do want the center to be more than just average.

I do think I would really like the OWD stone. It has an even facet pattern and an overall symmetry I find appealing. In looking around for price comparisons, I saw this one at JbEG:http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.c...ropean-Cut/18634871_3xh7CH#1440118257_mfvWvGH More or less same price, very pretty stone, higher color by two grades, lower clarity by one grade, and lower carat weight by 30 points. Frankly, for the same price, I'd rather have the slightly larger OWD stone (7.14 mm spread).

There's also this one at Art Deco Diamonds: https://www.artdecodiamonds.com/products.php?id=2145&l=0&u=2147483647&sortway=asc A little smaller, better color, much lower clarity, GIA cert.

I don't really know where else to look for loose stones, but based on these two stones, it seems to me that OWD is in line with other retailers. Certainly high, but perhaps not higher than most?

And if I do keep the stone, the next question is: how do I find a mounting for 1k?

There's a part of me that wants to keep looking until I can find an intact antique ring, but I'm worried about getting priced out of the market with all these rising diamond prices. Am I better off getting a nice stone with a nice spread now and just hoping that I stumble upon the right mounting? Or do I wait for months in the hopes that the right ring comes along? And I need to be careful that I don't spend too much money in shipping and appraisals. That can get very expensive very quickly!

Thanks everyone for your feedback! It's been so helpful to me. As much as I think I like buying jewelry, I think in reality I find it more stressful than fun.

 

[kennedy]

https://www.artdecodiamonds.com/products.php?id=2191&l=0&u=2147483647&sortway=asc I think this one kicks serious arse but... it's 9K-- close to AGS0 pricing for RBs. It's a GIA H VS2 though and the patterning of it is to die for. Still... this is what *I* would guess (best guess I can make without an ASET of it) it's closer to Neil's "top." But you have to remember who you are talking about... this is a guy who stares at stones ALL. DAY. LONG.

I like this stone, too. I find the blocky facets very appealing. I definitely wouldn't spend that much money on it, but it's a beautiful stone.

 

[LGK]

The Art Deco Diamonds one looks like it might be nice, but I hate the way they take pics- so much obstruction it's tough to tell if it really is dark in the center or not.

I almost wonder if just keeping the OWD stone wouldn't be a good idea at the moment. With a great cut OEC, it may be worth paying extra for- and it looks like it's definitely a contender. And when I helped my mom shop for an OEC recently it knocked my socks off how much they'd gone up recently! I mean... wow. OECs are expensive these days. She got a 1.30 ct OEC from JbEG, set in a 14K filigree setting with no sidestones, N/VS2, for $5500. (In 2007, I paid $2500 for a very similar stone from OWD.) That was a *good deal* considering what was out there! So, I lean towards saying... have Neil send you the stone, and see what you think in person. If you love it, keep it. Spending a little extra for the right rock? Sometimes it makes sense.

Anyway. A $1K setting? I'd go for a pretty temp, and search for a real antique setting slowly.

I've used jewelryrings.com for decent cast repro settings several times. They're not like top notch quality or anything, but they work for a year or so if you need them to. (ETA: nevermind, looks like their store is gone- too bad, Kim had some great repro rings )

http://stores.ebay.com/Antique-Jewelry-Co?_trksid=p4340.l2563 This ebay store has some actual antique empty settings, usually. I particularly like this one as a temp: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-ART-DECO-FILIGREE-MOUNT-SETTING-HOLD-6-5MM-18KW-/170672648438?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bce1f0f6#ht_1559wt_1037

 

[kennedy]

The Art Deco Diamonds one looks like it might be nice, but I hate the way they take pics- so much obstruction it's tough to tell if it really is dark in the center or not.

I almost wonder if just keeping the OWD stone wouldn't be a good idea at the moment. With a great cut OEC, it may be worth paying extra for- and it looks like it's definitely a contender. And when I helped my mom shop for an OEC recently it knocked my socks off how much they'd gone up recently! I mean... wow. OECs are expensive these days. She got a 1.30 ct OEC from JbEG, set in a 14K filigree setting with no sidestones, N/VS2, for $5500. (In 2007, I paid $2500 for a very similar stone from OWD.) That was a *good deal* considering what was out there! So, I lean towards saying... have Neil send you the stone, and see what you think in person. If you love it, keep it. Spending a little extra for the right rock? Sometimes it makes sense.

Anyway. A $1K setting? I'd go for a pretty temp, and search for a real antique setting slowly.

I've used jewelryrings.com for decent cast repro settings several times. They're not like top notch quality or anything, but they work for a year or so if you need them to. (ETA: nevermind, looks like their store is gone- too bad, Kim had some great repro rings )

http://stores.ebay.com/Antique-Jewelry-Co?_trksid=p4340.l2563 This ebay store has some actual antique empty settings, usually. I particularly like this one as a temp: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-ART-DECO-FILIGREE-MOUNT-SETTING-HOLD-6-5MM-18KW-/170672648438?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bce1f0f6#ht_1559wt_1037

The stone from Art Deco Diamonds is actually sold -- I was just using it as an example of pricing for similar stones.

Yes, I agree -- I'm starting to think that keeping the OWD stone is the way to go. In looking around today, I realized that for me to get a really ornate mounting with a stone in the 1.3-1.4 ct range for 7k is almost impossible. The ring from Nikki is really a good deal, but perhaps had the stone been cut better, it would have been far more expensive.

Thanks for the link -- I actually already looked through that Ebay store and only found one mounting I sort of liked.

What do you think of the mounting Adam has? It's $1500. I don't love emeralds, but I do love that step cut design. And I would guess that mounting looks more delicate in person?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Kennedy did you look through the company I linked above? They are a well known vendor I believe and have a good return policy and lots of beautiful mounts in the $1000 - $1500 range.

I would see the OWD stone but might keep looking for the setting and get a temp. But I am lame at ever committing to a setting so maybe not the best person to ask.

 

[Gypsy]

I don't like the Emerald setting. Looks like it was rode hard and put away wet.

How about this... nice and affordable. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Platinum-Ring-Setting-2-7-g-Mid-1920s-/180724065198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a13fe63ae

 

[kennedy]

Kennedy did you look through the company I linked above? They are a well known vendor I believe and have a good return policy and lots of beautiful mounts in the $1000 - $1500 range.

I would see the OWD stone but might keep looking for the setting and get a temp. But I am lame at ever committing to a setting so maybe not the best person to ask.

I did, thank you, but I must say I really want an authentic antique mounting.

Here are a couple mountings I kind of like from the Ebay store LGK linked:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-SET...ultDomain_0&hash=item2c5f59705c#ht_1671wt_942

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-ART...ultDomain_0&hash=item2c5ef5798f#ht_1825wt_942

ETA to Gypsy's post: That's pretty funny! Yes, it does look worn, but I couldn't tell if it's the pics that make it look not so nice. I do like the overall design and if those emeralds were diamonds or sapphires, I'd really like it.

 

[Gypsy]

Additional options:

http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/EngagementRingMountings/M179.html

http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/EngagementRingMountings/M983-SD.html

http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/EngagementRingMountings/M178.html

 

[Gypsy]

My recommendation would be one of these though. I wouldn't rush to a setting decision you might regret. All of these are lovely and under 400 in white gold. And you can wear the stone and get to know it... then decide on a permanent home.



http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/FiligreeMountings/M251-R094.html My favorite so far. Takes a 6.5mm stone.

http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/FiligreeMountings/M286-R129.html Another favorite. Takes a 7mm stone.

http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/FiligreeMountings/M231-R069.html

http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/FiligreeMountings/M228-R064.html Beautiful.

http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/FiligreeMountings/M242-R085.html

http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/FiligreeMountings/M221-R056.html This one is cool. You get it set with two 3mm sapphires on either side. Great temp setting.

http://www.marleneharriscol.com/categories/FiligreeMountings/M258-R101.html

 

[LGK]

The sort of temp setting that Gypsy is linking to, is the style of what I set my 1.22 ct OEC in for about 6 months. They aren't, like, perfect, but for the price they rule until you find what you want.

However, I did like both the settings you linked out of that ebay store. It looks like they fix up the antique settings til they're in nice shape, which I like.

I think I'd like the OWD mounting a lot more, too, if it had sapphires. As it is the emeralds are offputting to me too. It might be less worn in person- or the wear might be less annoying- but it does look worn in the pics unfortunately.

I'm also the sort that likes to think a long time over mountings, too, so I totally would do a temp setting. But, if you're more decisive than either me or Gypsy, by all means, any of the ones you linked to are very pretty IMO.

 

[kennedy]

Gypsy -- wow, thanks for all those links. I've never heard of that company before -- pretty stuff for good prices!

I'm actually quite smitten with this mounting: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-ART...ultDomain_0&hash=item2c5ef5798f#ht_1825wt_942 I think it would be really pretty with an OEC in there. What would be a fair offer?

I don't want to rush into anything, but the end of the return period is coming up this week on the OWD stone and I'm thinking while it's with Neil, he could have a look at the mounting as well.

Check out this beauty....wish the center were larger: http://www.1ofakindjewels.net/itemdetails.php?id=26883

 

[kennedy]

Someone needs to talk me out of doing something really stupid. I had a thought that I could not return the art deco ring and replace the current stone with the OWD stone. I could then sell the 1.43 ct myself? That's totally crazy, right? Would it be crazy to think I could get 5k for a 1.43 ct K, VS2? I sent an email to the seller asking whether she would sell me the mounting separately, but she hasn't responded yet. And the ring needs to go back tomorrow in order for me to stay within the return period. I just love that setting!

 

[yssie]

Someone needs to talk me out of doing something really stupid. I had a thought that I could not return the art deco ring and replace the current stone with the OWD stone. I could then sell the 1.43 ct myself? That's totally crazy, right? Would it be crazy to think I could get 5k for a 1.43 ct K, VS2? I sent an email to the seller asking whether she would sell me the mounting separately, but she hasn't responded yet. And the ring needs to go back tomorrow in order for me to stay within the return period. I just love that setting!

I just bought an "H" VS2 (I'd say I) 1.34ct OEC for 3.2k.. so I'd say yeah, expecting 5k if you're not an established seller w/ some awesome photos is - optimistic.

 

[slg47]

Someone needs to talk me out of doing something really stupid. I had a thought that I could not return the art deco ring and replace the current stone with the OWD stone. I could then sell the 1.43 ct myself? That's totally crazy, right? Would it be crazy to think I could get 5k for a 1.43 ct K, VS2? I sent an email to the seller asking whether she would sell me the mounting separately, but she hasn't responded yet. And the ring needs to go back tomorrow in order for me to stay within the return period. I just love that setting!

I just bought an "H" VS2 (I'd say I) 1.34ct OEC for 3.2k.. so I'd say yeah, expecting 5k if you're not an established seller w/ some awesome photos is - optimistic.

threadjack...pics????

 

[yssie]

Someone needs to talk me out of doing something really stupid. I had a thought that I could not return the art deco ring and replace the current stone with the OWD stone. I could then sell the 1.43 ct myself? That's totally crazy, right? Would it be crazy to think I could get 5k for a 1.43 ct K, VS2? I sent an email to the seller asking whether she would sell me the mounting separately, but she hasn't responded yet. And the ring needs to go back tomorrow in order for me to stay within the return period. I just love that setting!

I just bought an "H" VS2 (I'd say I) 1.34ct OEC for 3.2k.. so I'd say yeah, expecting 5k if you're not an established seller w/ some awesome photos is - optimistic.

threadjack...pics????

Coming!! I need to dig out my camera first.. and wait for afternoon sunshine

 

[LGK]

Someone needs to talk me out of doing something really stupid. I had a thought that I could not return the art deco ring and replace the current stone with the OWD stone. I could then sell the 1.43 ct myself? That's totally crazy, right? Would it be crazy to think I could get 5k for a 1.43 ct K, VS2? I sent an email to the seller asking whether she would sell me the mounting separately, but she hasn't responded yet. And the ring needs to go back tomorrow in order for me to stay within the return period. I just love that setting!

That's exactly what I did with the ring I bought from Nikki- bought hers for the setting, put my OWD stone in it, and sold the leftover rock. However, I have an antique mall at my disposal and was able to put the ring in one of our showcases for sale. I've sold a few things that way and, if they're well priced, they move. But. If you don't have a way to access the general public and sell at retail, it might be more difficult. YMMV! I took the risk because I didn't mind getting stuck with the "extra" 1.08 ct OEC, and could afford that if it happened...

 

[Mrs W]

I didnt read your whole thread so I'm not sure if you wanted a true antique setting for sure or not. I would personally want a new setting, but thats just me.

Anyway, Here are some antique/vintage styled settings:
http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-designers/beverley-k-jewelry/rings/79PP1/

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-designers/beverley-k-jewelry/rings/102PP1/7/

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-designers/beverley-k-jewelry/rings/99PP1/14/

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-designers/beverley-k-jewelry/rings/101PP1/14/

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-designers/beverley-k-jewelry/rings/100PP1/35/

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-designers/beverley-k-jewelry/rings/78PP1/35/

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-designers/beverley-k-jewelry/rings/80PP1/49/

http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=169