Another OEC Question -- Pics Included!

[rainydaze]

kennedy, i can only answer one of your questions and that is about the setting.... i think it is beautiful and not too busy at all! that style is typically not my preference, often because i feel the center gets to lost in it (and it's too busy, for *my* taste) but i find this one to be incredibly pleasing to my eye with the added bonus of the center still standing out/standing apart from it. i think all the elements work together perfectly!!

 

[tyty333]

I'm late to this thread but looks like you have gotten some good advice from kelpie and gypsy.

I must say that I think the ring is lovely. Not too busy for me. The stone also looks beautiful. It is hard to tell about
the faceting pattern due to the picture but it looks nice enough to buy and get it checked out. I find lower colors
in antique stones appealing. I know you just dont want to pay more than its worth. I hope it turns out to be what
you want.

 

[kelpie]

Also, for convenience sake we shorten to "OEC" here but there is a difference between OECs and later European cuts, mine's just a "European cut" if I've studied correctly but don't expect your average vendor to know the difference.

 

[happybear]

Kennedy,

May I ask why you went for this ring instead of the other K VS2 of almost similar carat weight (yes, I know which listing is this )? If you are afraid this setting is too busy, then the other should appeal to you. Personally, setting preference is really very subjective. I am not trying to confuse you further, just wanted to know what is it that you are drawn to for the setting you posted. Because ultimately, the most important person to love it is you!

And don't worry, as much as I love old cuts, I am currently not in the market to get one (or my DH will kill me )
Good luck to you though!

 

[kennedy]

Seller sent this head on pic. What do people think about the facet pattern. Seller said that the black is a reflection of the camera and not in the diamond itself. Thoughts?

 

[LGK]

No way to tell much more from pics, IMO- I like the faceting pattern, personally, but it might be a little more random looking than say, Kelpie's OEC... not a lot though. It also could be that the picture isn't well centered. I don't think there's much more you can tell about performance until you've got your hot little hands on it

(I adore this style of settings!)

 

[kelpie]

I think it looks promising! Esp since you've already owned a similar stone and you loved it, you have a good idea of what to expect.

 

[kenny]

Seller sent this head on pic. What do people think about the facet pattern. Seller said that the black is a reflection of the camera and not in the diamond itself. Thoughts?

That is true.
There is no way black inclusions just happen to have the exact shape, size and position of those facets.

Think of the black arrows in rounds.
People sometimes post, "Oh, but I don't want a diamond with a big black spider in it! Yuck!"

There is nothing black in the diamond to worry about; it's just an inevitible artifact of the photographic process, though there are photographic techniques to minimize it.

Facets in the diamond are reflecting something black, like the camera.
Even if the camera was white it can be the relatively-dark result of the camera obstructing light.

It is not an unfair portrayal really, since every time you will be looking at the diamond head on your head will block light that would have entered the diamond had your head not been there.

 

[maplefemme]

Also, for convenience sake we shorten to "OEC" here but there is a difference between OECs and later European cuts, mine's just a "European cut" if I've studied correctly but don't expect your average vendor to know the difference.

Kelpie, are we talking about your recut that Ari did?
Can you please explain the difference between an OEC and European Cut?

 

[kelpie]

Also, for convenience sake we shorten to "OEC" here but there is a difference between OECs and later European cuts, mine's just a "European cut" if I've studied correctly but don't expect your average vendor to know the difference.

Kelpie, are we talking about your recut that Ari did?
Can you please explain the difference between an OEC and European Cut?

Yes, that one. From Rich Sherwood:

1860-1900 Old Mine Cuts (cushion shaped outline)
1900-1915 Old European Cuts (round outlines)
1920-1935 European Cuts (more streamlined)
1940-1950 Transitional Cut (transitioning from European
to Round Brilliant Cut)
1950-2003 Round Brilliant Cut

These dates are not absolutes, but generalities.

Old European Cut characteristics- High crown, small table, short star facets, very large to extremely large culet, very large lower girdle facets, symmetry poor to good.

European Cut characteristics- Lower crown, larger table, larger star facets, medium to large culet, smaller (but larger than modern RBC) lower girdle facets, symmetry usually better (fair to very good).

 

[Gypsy]

I like it too. The patterning looks even and the stone looks bright with some probable contrast. All good things. Plus, looking at all the pics together, it looks like it's likely to be eyeclean, which is nice. There might be an inclusion or a chip on the girdle right above the bottom right prong, but it looks like it's a white inclusion. And I can't tell but it looks like there might be a chip in the diamond on the left hand side between the two prongs (I would ask the seller about that one)-- but I don't see it in the other pics so it could just be a photography thing. If she says it's the photography just be sure to ask Neil about any girdle issues and chips.

 

[kennedy]

Thanks all for checking back in. I'm leaning towards getting it and having it sent to Neil. I'm a little scared, though, and keep thinking I'll miss out on something better that might come up soon. Does anyone think I should contact Old World Diamonds and see about getting a loose stone from them? Am I correct that their prices are quite high? I've also thought about contacting Singlestone, but fear that my budget won't get me very far.

 

[kennedy]

Kennedy,

May I ask why you went for this ring instead of the other K VS2 of almost similar carat weight (yes, I know which listing is this )? If you are afraid this setting is too busy, then the other should appeal to you. Personally, setting preference is really very subjective. I am not trying to confuse you further, just wanted to know what is it that you are drawn to for the setting you posted. Because ultimately, the most important person to love it is you!

And don't worry, as much as I love old cuts, I am currently not in the market to get one (or my DH will kill me )
Good luck to you though!

I know exactly which ring you're talking about. That setting doesn't appeal to me at all -- it's too tall and it doesn't look like the stone quite fits from the side.The reason this setting appeals to me is that I want an authentic antique setting with a lot of sparkle and a low profile. I also love the baguettes. Honestly, in some pics the setting looks gorgeous and in other pics there's something I don't totally love, but I can't quite say what. My gut says that it's probably quite gorgeous in person and probably more delicate looking. My main goal, though, is a stunning OEC, so that is what matters to me most.

 

[kennedy]

The seller, who is in LA, has offered to let me have the ring appraised prior to purchase. She said she would personally take it to the appraiser. I used to live in LA and know that Patrick Davis is supposed to be very good. She mentioned another appraiser more convenient to her -- he's actually someone I've heard of before and someone Patrick knows as well. Is there any reason I shouldn't let her to take the ring to the appraiser herself? I was kind of hoping that Neil Beatty could do the appraisal, but that would require the ring be shipped and it would be great if I didn't have to purchase the ring prior to having it appraised. Any thoughts on how to proceed?

 

[LGK]

The seller, who is in LA, has offered to let me have the ring appraised prior to purchase. She said she would personally take it to the appraiser. I used to live in LA and know that Patrick Davis is supposed to be very good. She mentioned another appraiser more convenient to her -- he's actually someone I've heard of before and someone Patrick knows as well. Is there any reason I shouldn't let her to take the ring to the appraiser herself? I was kind of hoping that Neil Beatty could do the appraisal, but that would require the ring be shipped and it would be great if I didn't have to purchase the ring prior to having it appraised. Any thoughts on how to proceed?

While thats awesome of her I'd just proceed as planned and send it to Neil after you buy it. Just more straightforward that way, it doesn't muddy the issue of who the appraiser is working for and also many appraisers who are great for modern stones are no good with antique cuts- you want someone there is no questions about.

 

[Gypsy]

Hmmm.... If he's independent and he's working for YOU, I'd say okay if you talk to him and are comfortable. But if she's paying then he's working for her. If you talk to him and are comfortable he understands his obligations to you (and that he has none to her)... then it might be okay.

Hmm... LGK makes a good point about appraisers and old cuts though. Yeah, I'd probably just send to Neil or to Richard.

 

[kennedy]

I'm kind of going crazy here trying to decide whether I want this ring. I just looked at some of OWD's videos on youtube and their stones look GORGEOUS! Could this stone be just as gorgeous and the pics just don't show it? And I can't even decide if I love the setting. Sometimes I think it's beautiful and sometimes I don't. Some of my favorite OEC's on PS are Facetfire's, LGK's, and Kelpie's -- that is the look I'm after and I want to make sure that's what I get.

Does Neil specialize in old cuts?

LGK -- Would you feel comfortable sending this particular seller a personal check? Personal check or wire gives me a 6% discount. I've been buying jewelry for years, but never anything this $$ without going through an established company. Feeling quite nervous.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Kennedy how do the prices compare to OWD? And do you adore this setting?

If the prices are similar and you are not jumping out of your pants for the setting, the security of working with a cmpany like OWD may make it a better option. It would for me.

Ditto gypsy on the appraiser. You want to make sure they work *for you* and you are paying them, she is just a messenger if you go for the local person. And ensure they know their old cuts.

 

[LGK]

I'm kind of going crazy here trying to decide whether I want this ring. I just looked at some of OWD's videos on youtube and their stones look GORGEOUS! Could this stone be just as gorgeous and the pics just don't show it? And I can't even decide if I love the setting. Sometimes I think it's beautiful and sometimes I don't. Some of my favorite OEC's on PS are Facetfire's, LGK's, and Kelpie's -- that is the look I'm after and I want to make sure that's what I get.

Does Neil specialize in old cuts?

LGK -- Would you feel comfortable sending this particular seller a personal check? Personal check or wire gives me a 6% discount. I've been buying jewelry for years, but never anything this $$ without going through an established company. Feeling quite nervous.

Hmmmmm. 6% at this price is a big chunk, but I do like the security of paying thru a CC via paypal. I actually paid for my larger OEC with a wire transfer so I guess the answer is yes, I do take calculated risks sometimes if I want a piece enough. I'd hate to say yes, do it and have you not love it, but to be absolutely honest if it was me I'd probably go for the savings!

Personally I love the setting to bits. It's lovely and to get it replicated as a new piece would be pricey. But, obviously, it has to be to *your* taste.

My larger OEC is 62% depth, 45% table, if you're curious, and it has fairly symmetrical faceting for an OEC. I suspect it's probably c.1910ish. Honestly, about a month ago, I steered my own mother to buy at full, high end of retail. She wanted the whole package- setting as well as stone- and an absolute guarantee that she was going with a reputable seller. So I had her buy a 1.30 carat (that was shallow-ish and thus had a killer face-up size) N, VS stone in a pretty 18K filigree (but no sidestones) from JBEG for $5500. The performance was very good, but not absolute tip-top- but that was OK, because even so it was a fire-bomb- it's just that put against my OECs you could see hers was a little lazy in the center. (Not enough to quibble over though, IMO- *she* couldn't see it, so I figured good enough.)

I mean, you always face a risk with eBay. I have definitely decided on more than a few occasions to go for it, even with a certain amount of risk. You can for sure minimize it, and I think you have- but that doesn't make it the same security as buying from OWD or JbEG. But you would in this case get a certain cost discount for buying from eBay and assuming some risk, whereas from a B&M retailer you'd get more security but higher prices.

Personally, I do assume the risk sometimes. In this case, I'd say, all signs point to as minimal risk as you get on eBay- which is not to say none- and I'd be tempted. But, in this case, I think the setting is the tipping point. If you lurrrve it then I think it's absolutely worth it- but if you're not quite sure, then maybe OWD would be a better fit. Adam is sweet and has a great eye, but you pay him for it! I have purchased from him FYI- I put a stone I got from Adam into the setting I ended up with from this seller, actually.

 

[kennedy]

Dreamer -- OWD is significantly more money. If I went with them, I'd end up with a diamond and no setting for the same cost. But, as you said, I'm buying the security of dealing with an established company. It's a tough call.

LGK -- Thanks again for your input. It's so helpful to me. I'm okay taking the risk that the stone and/or setting aren't as represented as long as I can get my money back. I'm not okay with the risk that I'll send a check and get no ring. I really, truly don't think that will happen with her given her impeccable feedback on both Ebay and Etsy. Your experience, as well as the interactions I've had with her thus far, suggest she's a trustworthy seller. That said, I don't want to be stupid. This has basically become a private sale. Perhaps I would be better off having the ring appraised before purchase so that there would be an unbiased third party involved?

If I go with OWD, I will end up with an unset stone for an indefinite period of time. As you said, a setting like this would likely cost quite a lot and I just don't have the funds right now to purchase a stone at OWD's prices AND a setting. I really wanted to get the whole package.

 

[Dreamer_D]

So it might be worth it... IF you love the setting. A deal is only a deal if you get exactly what you want So it is only a deal if the setting is the style you want and would choose. You can get a temp setting for $275 bucks or less if you just need *a* setting. I don't think I would let the setting be the decider unless it was my dream setting.

 

[kennedy]

Yes, that's the thing -- I can't tell if I love the setting and I'm not really sure why. I guess maybe that means I don't love it? But I can't tell if that's just the fear of committing to something. I loved it the first time I saw it and now I'm having doubts and I'm wondering if it's because I'm actually able to get it. When I first saw it back in Feb, there was no chance of me getting it then.

Just came across this ring at a fancy high end retailer. Price is $6450 -- surely too much for what it is, but I'm drawn to it...especially since this ring is to commemorate the birth of my second daughter. Stones are .84 each, M-N, VS set in platinum from the 1920's.

 

[Gypsy]

I look at that and think... those would make a killer pair of studs.

I'm kinda of the opinion that you should skip the appraiser for now and buy the ring via CC... have it sent to you and see if you love it. If you don't just return it. If you DO send it to Neil... if everything checks out then have her reverse the CC transaction when your check clears.

 

[kennedy]

I look at that and think... those would make a killer pair of studs.

I'm kinda of the opinion that you should skip the appraiser for now and buy the ring via CC... have it sent to you and see if you love it. If you don't just return it. If you DO send it to Neil... if everything checks out then have her reverse the CC transaction when your check clears.

Haha, yes, I agree, they would make gorgeous studs. I assume that means you're not wild about the ring?

When you say pay by CC, do you mean via Paypal?

ETA What do you think of this one on her site? It's a 1.25 ct L-M, VS (her grading) in a simple solitaire. Price is $3550. I don't want another solitaire, but I'd have money left over to try to find an antique setting which may not be as easy as it sounds? The stone appears more symmetrical to my eye, but I'm not sure.

 

[kennedy]

Now I'm even more confused! I contacted Adam at OWD and he recommended this 1.36 ct, L, VVS2 for $6187. He said it's a stunning stone and faces up much whiter than it does in the picture. Depth is 62% and table is 50%. Polish is Very Good and Symmetry is Good.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Why does the ebay vendor have such crappy photos? They look grainy and don't show detail at all. Considering that she is selling diamonds online I can't help but wonder about it. Obfuscation perhaps or just bad skills? I cannot get a feel for the facets of the diamonds at all in her pictures.

So I am no a risk taker at all, I am really really cheap, and indecisive. If this sounds like you then perhaps my two cents will matter haha... I think you need to make only one decision at a time so you don't get overwhelmed by too many different variables.

First, I would start with th stone and figure out the setting later. Why? Because it is only one decision to make rather than two I would set the budget for the rock, and then get the biggest one you can in that budget with the best looking cut to your eye and in the color range you prefer. I really like L-M color in old style chunky cuts, so its a good place to start!

Then you need to choose one stone to see in person. Its just too hard to decide without seeing one of these guys in person I believe. So the decision is whether to see one of the ebay rocks of the OWD rock. I might personally see the solitaire ebay stone b/c it is a good price if you really love it and it checks out with a reputable appraiser of your choice. I suggest this because OWD has lots of rocks and if the one you posted is gone they can find you another, so they are likely still a good option if the ebay stoen does not check out.

Then you have to decide if you will keep the rock or not. Let your eyes, and the advice of your appraiser if you need it, be your guide.

 

[tyty333]

I'm still liking the first ring you posted. I think you should get it and see it in person. If you dont like it then return it.

 

[kennedy]

Why does the ebay vendor have such crappy photos? They look grainy and don't show detail at all. Considering that she is selling diamonds online I can't help but wonder about it. Obfuscation perhaps or just bad skills? I cannot get a feel for the facets of the diamonds at all in her pictures.

So I am no a risk taker at all, I am really really cheap, and indecisive. If this sounds like you then perhaps my two cents will matter haha... I think you need to make only one decision at a time so you don't get overwhelmed by too many different variables.

First, I would start with th stone and figure out the setting later. Why? Because it is only one decision to make rather than two I would set the budget for the rock, and then get the biggest one you can in that budget with the best looking cut to your eye and in the color range you prefer. I really like L-M color in old style chunky cuts, so its a good place to start!

Then you need to choose one stone to see in person. Its just too hard to decide without seeing one of these guys in person I believe. So the decision is whether to see one of the ebay rocks of the OWD rock. I might personally see the solitaire ebay stone b/c it is a good price if you really love it and it checks out with a reputable appraiser of your choice. I suggest this because OWD has lots of rocks and if the one you posted is gone they can find you another, so they are likely still a good option if the ebay stoen does not check out.

Then you have to decide if you will keep the rock or not. Let your eyes, and the advice of your appraiser if you need it, be your guide.

Yes, you and I are somewhat alike -- I'm not a risk taker with and I am also VERY indecisive (can't you tell?). Cheap? Not so much, but I don't want to pay more than I have to. Your question about the pics is a good one and I don't know the answer. I, too, am having a hard time getting a good sense of the facets, even with the head on picture. The stone in the solitaire somehow looks more appealing to me. So does the stone from OWD, but it's also quite pricey and will eat up almost my entire budget.

How do you have stones shipped to you in Canada? I'm an American transplant living in Canada and have yet to figure out this online shopping business. It makes everything so much more difficult!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Just have them ship the stone to you via fedex. Fedex will contact you and have you complete some paper work for customs and then collect GST/PST/HST from you. They will then deliver it. When the package arrives it comes with a bunch of documents for customs, keep them.

If you return the diamond, there is a form online that you print, complete and send to customs along with your original customs documents and a receipt from the vendor stating a refund was issued. Takes about two weeks to get the taxes back.

BUT shipping is another can of worms. You cannot get insurance for jewlery over $1000 to ship to the US through any shipper So you need to work with a vendor who has their own insurance and can arrange for FedEx to deliver for you on their account. Most PS vendors do this, but you need to talk to OWD to see if they can arrange it for you -- you pay but they send the shippig label to use with FedEx.

I think you need to scratch Ebay off your radar in your situation unless you can get to the US to pick up the ring and see it in person. Is that an option? Then if you don't like it you can return it in the US using USPS. I used to live about a 2 hour drive from the border and it made life a lot easier, I would have it shipped "hold for pickup" to a fedex station accross the border and go over to get it. If I shipped it back I could do it the same way.

 

[kennedy]

Yes, it is an option for me to drive to the US. I live about 45 minutes from the border, but I also have a newborn. Ugh, I miss the days when I could have stuff shipped to me without such a hassle. I live in BC -- do you pay only HST on jewelry?