Wow, CvB just called out DK for copying one of her designs.

[the_mother_thing]

Lost in the weeds indeed.
I never stated that every single jeweler every single time every single inspiration should be noted.
There's been plenty of posters who state they are using CVB elements, that happen to be antique elements CVB has gathered, and those posters are repeatedly suggested to not use CVB pictures but to find the original antique rings with those same elements to use as inspiration.
Again- it was implied by the poster of the new ring, that I used as an example, that a picture off of TGP's site was used for her inspiration to.
And again if this is the case - it should go both ways. Not just one way.

And this can't be confined to 'contemporary' designs. Because again it's often mentioned on here for posters to not use antique inspired design elements from CVB pictures.

My contribution on this thread has been that it should go both ways. Not just one.

Thanks, and I apologize if the ‘tone’ of my question seemed argumentive; I was rushing to an appt and didn’t want to lose my thought and probably hit ‘post’ too quickly. But to be clear, there are two different ‘scenarios’ being discussed in this thread, which murks things up a bit - Exact Copies & Inspired-by pieces. They are not the same thing, and should not receive the same considerations or ‘two way street’, IMO.

The reason I asked the question was your comment further up: “If the owner of the CVB ring took that image to CVB and went from there - then TGP should be credited for inspiration by CVB, just as CVB is requesting DK to give her some credit.“

I think you’re making an apples to oranges comparison there. CvB alleges DK made an exact copy of her design. Your scenario references an inspired-by piece that is not an exact copy, and arguably has at least 50% differences from what I can see; in fact, the only similarities I see are: octagon, bezel, onyx, engraving .... beyond that, the central stones are different, the shoulders are different, the gallery appears different, the scale/proportion of onyx to center stone is different, the milgrain detail is different, etc.

But your statement seemed to imply a jeweler (in this case, CvB) should also be listing the inspiration rings’ creators that went into a piece when he/she posts it on social media, forums, etc. CvB isn’t asking for ‘credit’ from DK; she’s asking him to stop ripping off her work by creating identical copies of her work.

In the case of ‘inspirations’, IMO, if enough elements are different that make the new piece not an ‘exact copy’, then I don’t think the designer should/would mention other designers’ works in their advertising ... for a number of reasons, but mainly it’s essentially advertising for the competition to do that. I’ve yet to see Burger King ads saying “come eat our Whopper, inspired by the Big Mac which was created by McDonalds”.

 

[Rfisher]

Thanks and I sure don’t want to seem argumentative either.
I went back and reread CVBs insta post. I could swear there was something in there about wanting her work inspiration credited by other jewelers - but I’m mistaken. It doesn’t seem to be there. My fault.
Yes- the recent ring was close to 100% the same- I have agreed on that earlier. It is a different situation that what I was mentioning as my point, my example.

I also have muddied up this thread by bringing in other topics/off shoots. - my apologies.

I do however still believe I see other posters routinely cautioned/swayed away from using any of CVB’s images. Antique inspired elements included. If indeed TGP’s image was used in this instance (and I did jump to that conclusion, as it was only mentioned as something she wanted to have, my mistake) - then the same consideration should be used reversely. That’s all.
And the belief I see DK held to stricter standards than other jewelers when the same happens. That’s possibly because of the sheer volume /visibility of his trafficked thru here.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@Rfisher You didn’t seem argumentative at all; I just worried my post appeared that way. It’s all good.

 

[Acinom]

How peculiar...
Caysie of CvB did not have any problems copying/ replicating Apacheroses stunning Van Craeynest set... I got Apacheroses permission and Caysie did not hesitate to accept this job.
(I sold my set as it was tainted because of all the delays and excuses and the fact that the set was made too dainty compared to the CAD, although Caysie was a very friendly person).
I have the feeling Caysie judges DK while she has done the same thing.

 

[OreoRosies86]

My own engagement ring (if he EVER gives it to me ) is CvB and she does do lovely work, but I really just feel like at this point there is nothing new in jewelry. Especially since there are so many online bespoke custom artists to be found. I get copyrighting a design, but a big part of me says just go with whoever treats you the best, gives you the best product, and the best price.

I say that as a huge DK fan too. I had an amazing experience with his bench.

 

[sarahb]

I realize we're now on page 4 of this thread, but I'm still trying to figure out who TGP is..... somehow I've missed that detail

Anyone??

 

[mrs-b]

The Gemstone Project.

 

[elle_71125]

I realize we're now on page 4 of this thread, but I'm still trying to figure out who TGP is..... somehow I've missed that detail

Anyone??

The Gemstone Project.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I noticed on her post that she didn’t allow comments. She just wanted to have her little rant and call out DK. I can understand the frustration, but I agree with Acinom, I think she has done it too. She is not alone. Anyone who didn’t want to pay the 8 to 10k for a Tacori copied those crescents. How many Legacy copies have your seen? Not to mention, Tiffany solitaires. There is supposed to be a percentage of design that is changed, but if the customer says, ‘this is what I want’, most of them will do it. I have even had a few tell me , just don’t post it on Facebook. (I never went on to have those designs made, it was during the process of deciding on my ring).

 

[the_mother_thing]

@Acinom A couple questions regarding your post.

Did you - when commissioning Caysie to replicate the set - advise her it was VC’s copyrighted work (assuming VC has a copyright on it)? Or did you just tell her it was Apache’s set and Apache said ok?

When did you commission her to do the work?

My curiosity regarding the second question is I believe VC stopped making pieces for awhile so it’s reasonable ( to me at least) to believe it wasn’t possible to procure from the original bench (e.g. the earlier opinions of it being ok when it’s an antique piece) which is why I would assume you didn’t go to VC directly yourself.

And I am not making excuses or defending the practice, but feel it’s fair to know all the facts before one definitely says X or Y.

 

[Matata]

I believe the earliest known personal adornments are approximately 40,000 years old. Any ring, earring, necklace, bracelet created after those originals are copies. Embellishments to those original designs did not create new original pieces. Those embellishments created embellished copies. There is only one original and all else is either a copy or a frankenpiece. By frankenpiece, I mean jewelry constructed using design elements seen in other pieces. Every jeweler, and every person who has had a piece of jewelry custom made, is/has been influenced consciously/unconsciously by designs seen throughout life. Some elements have become iconic. Some jewelers are better at the execution of a piece than others. To quibble about what is original or a frankenpiece is inane.

 

[mrs-b]

Deleted this post, because this thread isn't helping anyone at this point.

 

[lovedogs]

@Rfisher I agree with everything you've said. I think CvB is the pot calling the kettle black, and it's a litle frustrating. I like her work, but (being honest here), I haven't heard good things about her communication and I find her work overpriced for what it is. Totally my own opinion, and I realize if I ever ask someone to make something that looks like hers it won't be 100% the same. But for some reason DK is easy to flame on the boards, whereas CvB has a massive fan base that defends her to the end.

 

[redwood66]

Caysie has always been friendly when conversing by email and her work is stunning. It does turn me off with the calling out online because it makes her (or anyone else who does it) appear childish when there isn't really anything she can, or will, do about it in the legal sense. I have had plenty of pieces done by DK and have always been happy with his work and the prices. Each vendor has their own following and these kinds of flame outs are just ridiculous IMO. @Matata is exactly right, they are inane.

 

[soxfan]

@Rfisher I agree with everything you've said. I think CvB is the pot calling the kettle black, and it's a litle frustrating. I like her work, but (being honest here), I haven't heard good things about her communication and I find her work overpriced for what it is. Totally my own opinion, and I realize if I ever ask someone to make something that looks like hers it won't be 100% the same. But for some reason DK is easy to flame on the boards, whereas CvB has a massive fan base that defends her to the end.

DK has WAY more fans on here than CVB. WAY more fans.

Do you have any jewelry pieces made by CVB? I’m just wondering because you said you think her work is way overpriced for what it is. It’s kind of insulting to those of us who have rings made by her I don’t think it’s overpriced at all, and I’ve had a VC to compare it to.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I've heard the argument that she's overpriced for CAD work, but a pretty ring is a pretty ring. I know personally I can't pay $5K+ for just a setting.

 

[soxfan]

I've heard the argument that she's overpriced for CAD work, but a pretty ring is a pretty ring. I know personally I can't pay $5K+ for just a setting.

I didn’t pay anything close to that for my cvb settings. That’s Hand forged pricing.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I didn’t pay anything close to that for my cvb settings.

Ditto. And I have had custom projects by both DK & CvB, so I am not knocking either bench.

The difference (for me) that is worth any price differential is the design eye and artistic/visionary ability Caysie brings when I want/need that help creating something. I’d still go to DK if/when I don’t need any ‘artistic hand holding’. Yet it is troubling that this issue with these two people has occurred before and now again.

It’s also troubling that folks are taking it so personal for whatever reason. But if being a fan of someone doing what is reasonably ‘right’ by others is considered being a ‘fan girl’, then slap that mess on a pendant and call it mine.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I didn’t pay anything close to that for my cvb settings. That’s Hand forged pricing.

No, I'm saying my ring is CvB too, and her prices aren't in that range. Hand forged? Cool. CAD? Cool. Some designers start their setting prices where hers you could get the whole ring!

Every few years designer drama crops up and it's so silly.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Certainly we will see elements of antique rings used by many vendors that make antique style rings. It was the exact copy of an original piece that was the issue.

I'd be curious as to how Erika Winters feels about him copying her design on these earrings. Or maybe it's just a common design, but I associate it with her. These have 6 prongs and I think yours had larger stones and 9 prongs, right @yssie? Do you consider this okay?

 

[OreoRosies86]

If I had directed my boyfriend to some of the other jewelry sites I haunt we would have had to break out the smelling salts

 

[lovedogs]

DK has WAY more fans on here than CVB. WAY more fans.

Do you have any jewelry pieces made by CVB? I’m just wondering because you said you think her work is way overpriced for what it is. It’s kind of insulting to those of us who have rings made by her I don’t think it’s overpriced at all, and I’ve had a VC to compare it to.

sorry, I didn't mean to insult. But your'e right and I'm sorry for being rude. I feel like for what it is (e.g. $2500 for a design with no diamonds in 14k gold) isn't feasible for me and just isn't worth it to me (but again, that's just me). Her work is beautiful, but IMHO the prices are very steep for non-forged pieces. But again, that's just my opinion and I absolutely don't want to offend anyone since I regularly drool over her pieces.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@lovedogs what setting are you talking about that is $2500 for 14k with no diamonds?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

How peculiar...
Caysie of CvB did not have any problems copying/ replicating Apacheroses stunning Van Craeynest set... I got Apacheroses permission and Caysie did not hesitate to accept this job.
(I sold my set as it was tainted because of all the delays and excuses and the fact that the set was made too dainty compared to the CAD, although Caysie was a very friendly person).
I have the feeling Caysie judges DK while she has done the same thing.

To be fair, and I do not recall the status of VC at that time, either, but I would think you would have gone with VC if it was possible at the time. There was a period of time after the company was sold that people were very hesitant to buy not knowing whether the workmanship would be as good as it was with the original bench people. That's the reason people like apacherose were thrilled to snap up VC pieces from the original SF factory at that tome. But regardless, Caysie is clear to say that early on she overstepped boundaries a couple of times, and she realized she'd have to be much more careful in the future to be certain that she would "decline requests that closely resembled another's contemporary work". She did in fact speak to the new owner of VC and told him she was sorry and thought that style was no longer in production and would take down the pictures of your set from social media. He was very understanding. I remember her telling me that at the time.

sorry, I didn't mean to insult. But your'e right and I'm sorry for being rude. I feel like for what it is (e.g. $2500 for a design with no diamonds in 14k gold) isn't feasible for me and just isn't worth it to me (but again, that's just me). Her work is beautiful, but IMHO the prices are very steep for non-forged pieces. But again, that's just my opinion and I absolutely don't want to offend anyone since I regularly drool over her pieces.

All I can tell you is that pricing is relative. Her workmanship and design is outstanding for the price point. I have been to a Singlestone trunk show and have seen hundreds of beautiful pieces, but they are much, much higher than CVB/Caysie. I was so happy she came along, because she is the only one I know that equals the workmanship level on a wide variety fine detailed antique style pieces yet has more reasonable prices. Just as an example, the Casablanca halo setting is in the $3000-3600 range and has little diamonds in the halo, shoulders, gallery, and a lot of nice detail. I find that very reasonable and cannot find anyone that does the level of design and workmanship at her price point. I consider every piece she has made for me to be a precious heirloom that I can hand down to my daughters and granddaughters.

 

[HS4S_2]

I find it interesting to see the comments about price. My oval rose cut setting was the most I have ever paid for any setting and the pure artistry and beauty in the setting is worth EVERY SINGLE PENNY to me. There are other designers that have a comparable price point and some that exceed it. I look down at my Anjolie ring and fall in love a little more each day. I absolutely do not think it is overpriced. There is something special about each aspect of my ring by Caysie. I have purchased by several designers and I can honestly say my Anjolie ring is in a league of its own. At the end of the day it's my own opinion and preference. I would never knock someone else's jewelery or choice of designer.

I won't get into the original reason for the post because it is pointless and enough has been said. However, to say a "pretty ring is a pretty ring" is offensive to the people who love the sentimental pieces that they have made by designers with a more artistic approach.

Clearly this is a topic with varied opinions but it is amazing to see how quickly these types of posts go downhill.

 

[soxfan]

No, I'm saying my ring is CvB too, and her prices aren't in that range. Hand forged? Cool. CAD? Cool. Some designers start their setting prices where hers you could get the whole ring!

Every few years designer drama crops up and it's so silly.

I'm just catching up on this thread due to pre-teen drama crisis in my house.

Now I get what you are saying. I'm sorry I took it the wrong way!!!

 

[soxfan]

I find it interesting to see the comments about price. My oval rose cut setting was the most I have ever paid for any setting and the pure artistry and beauty in the setting is worth EVERY SINGLE PENNY to me. There are other designers that have a comparable price point and some that exceed it. I look down at my Anjolie ring and fall in love a little more each day. I absolutely do not think it is overpriced. There is something special about each aspect of my ring by Caysie. I have purchased by several designers and I can honestly say my Anjolie ring is in a league of its own. At the end of the day it's my own opinion and preference. I would never knock someone else's jewelery or choice of designer.

I won't get into the original reason for the post because it is pointless and enough has been said. However, to say a "pretty ring is a pretty ring" is offensive to the people who love the sentimental pieces that they have made by designers with a more artistic approach.

Clearly this is a topic with varied opinions but it is amazing to see how quickly these types of posts go downhill.

Notice it's all members who do NOT have ANY of her pieces who consider them "overpriced?" I have held her settings NEXT to my VC Emilya and preferred her settings at the price point. WHY would anyone come here to say they are overpriced when they don't own one?

I guess it calls into question their motives. CVB fangirls? Yeah, Ok. Go search the posts of the ones who are quoting false information on cost, authenticity, and blatant apples to oranges photo comparisons. Do they not have one thing in common- rings by DK?

Come on...

 

[soxfan]

Certainly we will see elements of antique rings used by many vendors that make antique style rings. It was the exact copy of an original piece that was the issue.

I'd be curious as to how Erika Winters feels about him copying her design on these earrings. Or maybe it's just a common design, but I associate it with her. These have 6 prongs and I think yours had larger stones and 9 prongs, right @yssie? Do you consider this okay?

OMG are those a PS'ers earrings??? Total copy of EW.

 

[soxfan]

Her work is beautiful, but IMHO the prices are very steep for non-forged pieces. But again, that's just my opinion and I absolutely don't want to offend anyone since I regularly drool over her pieces.

What price is steep for a non-forged piece? You don't own any of her pieces! So you have no idea what kind of quality it is.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Notice it's all members who do NOT have ANY of her pieces who consider them "overpriced?" I have held her settings NEXT to my VC Emilya and preferred her settings at the price point. WHY would anyone come here to say they are overpriced when they don't own one?

Agreed! Puppeting someone else’s opinion when you’ve not personally done business with a vendor is pretty silly. I’ve repeatedly seen one PSer in particular never miss an opportunity (this thread included) to jump CvB’s reputation for something when that person has zero purchase experience with CvB, or any other PS vendor, from what I can gather from their posts.

I also find it humorous how this thread topic was about CvB calling out another vendor for copying her work, and now it’s somehow devolved into the price she sets for her work, like that’s some sort of valid justification to copy her designs.

Here is an easy solution: if you don’t like DK, don’t use him. If you don’t like CvB, don’t use her. No one is holding a gun to your head either way. It’s jewelry, and we’re all quite fortunate to be debating this very first world problem.