Wow, CvB just called out DK for copying one of her designs.

[GlitterInMyHair]

In her most recent IG post.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv9vpQ2HiWC/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=sbnfvex9mc0j

 

[Matthews1127]

WOW!!

 

[anangel]

Dang, anyone have popcorn?
I’ve seen so many beautiful things from DK, and certainly have respect for his talent, but the resemblance is uncanny.

 

[seaurchin]

Ruh roh!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Definitely not the first time he has been accused of this practice by CvB and LAD (IIRC).

 

[bludiva]

Yeah i think she has called out dk before similarly. And Victor barbone made some comment at cvb for doing the same thing not too long ago, i have to look for the post.... she said something like she felt it was ok to replicate his ring because it was an antique. Tough to claim or defend ownership of antique style designs imho b/c it has all been done before and will be again **grabs popcorn**

 

[RosieR]

 

[whitewave]

Dang, anyone have popcorn?
I’ve seen so many beautiful things from DK, and certainly have respect for his talent, but the resemblance is uncanny.

I think, think, this is my opinion, his team doesn’t question where designs originate. It’s not the first time people have commented on this.



Now, let me just say this: my asscher is pretty close to a different designer’s (names escapes me, on IG) settings, but I never knew of that person and didn’t start using IG until after, etc. I think sometimes it’s only a matter of how many things you can do—-> mine is a pave split shank. Not many variations.

But for something that has a lot of engravings and style, etc... well, it sounds like he might have to defend himself.

I’m curious among professionals, where is the line when there are no copyrighted designs? Is there a copyright for jewelry?

 

[anangel]

I think, think, this is my opinion, his team doesn’t question where designs originate. It’s not the first time people have commented on this.



Now, let me just say this: my asscher is pretty close to a different designer’s (names escapes me, on IG) settings, but I never knew of that person and didn’t start using IG until after, etc. I think sometimes it’s only a matter of how many things you can do—-> mine is a pave split shank. Not many variations.

But for something that has a lot of engravings and style, etc... well, it sounds like he might have to defend himself.

I’m curious among professionals, where is the line when there are no copyrighted designs? Is there a copyright for jewelry?

I’ve seen a lot of debate about this before on the boards… And as somebody who owns a “replica piece “I’m just as guilty as the next, so I am certainly not one to cast judgment.
I guess I have trouble with replicas when you can put a face with the name of the designer… And I know that is a very human response, but I guess it doesn’t bother me nearly as much to have a design that was modeled very closely after someone, say Simon G, whose name is well known, and distributed in commercial retail settings Versus the independent designer who is relying on her storefront, social media presence, and unique characteristics of her designed to be successful. I for one simply could not have an original design that is currently in production replicated in good conscious.

 

[bludiva]

I'm no pro but if i recall correctly copyright is hard to obtain or not applicable for fashion and jewelry in the US. If it was something innovative maybe a patent could be obtained. But most designs are remixes of other designs, there is not much new under the sun. Curious to hear where / how pros draw that line too!

 

[Rfisher]

Ok.
Can I chime in - or us that just too unpopular of a viewpoint?
Once again, and as per CVB’s words, not directed to the rings owner.
But CVB well enough used my rings design straight off of a photo from @ElleW /TGP’s website.
Not an exact copy - but the design intent is straight there. Enough of the exact same that she has done, that she accuses others of.
If it’s good enough for the goose - it’s good enough for the gander. Period.

Edited for clarity

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, there are many copies of antique rings. I have used antique rings as inspiration for some of mine. However, this is NOT a copy of an antique ring, it is Caysie's original design. My new pendant is an original design. We did not get the idea from another pendant, antique or not. It is just wrong to make an exact copy of an original design, period. Someone had to show him photos of her piece to get that design made by him.

 

[Rfisher]

Yes, there are many copies of antique rings. I have used antique rings as inspiration for some of mine. However, this is NOT a copy of an antique ring, it is Caysie's original design. My new pendant is an original design. We did not get the idea from another pendant, antique or not. It is just wrong to make an exact copy of an original design, period. Someone had to show him photos of her piece to get that design made by him.

Ok. Someone showed CVB my ring from TGP's website.
What's the difference?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ok.
Can I chime in - or us that just too unpopular of a viewpoint?
Once again, and as per CVB’s words, not directed to the rings owner.
But CVB well enough used my rings design straight off of a photo from @ElleW /TGP’s website.
Not an exact copy - but the design intent is straight there. Enough of the exact same that she has done, that she accuses others of.
If it’s good enough for the goose - it’s good enough for the gander. Period.

Edited for clarity

I think it is fine for you or anyone else to say this, however, I think you need to provide the picture of your ring and the ring she made. Elements of rings can certainly be done by others, because as has been said, most elements in rings have been done before. It would just depend on how close it is to being an exact copy of a truly original piece. I know Caysie won't make an exact copy, but if someone shows her elements from several rings that they like, she might incorporate some of those elements into a new ring or jewelry piece.

The problem in this case is that the ring is an original design, and the copy is virtually exact. It wasn't taking elements from multiple rings to make a different design.

 

[bludiva]

Ok. Someone showed CVB my ring from TGP's website.
What's the difference?

Here's the one I was thinking of, which I think may be a PSers ring. Is it considered more of a grey area b/c barbone's was an antique? Or because he is not as popular of a vendor here? Just trying to understand the logic here.

 

[whitewave]

Here's the one I was thinking of, which I think may be a PSers ring. Is it considered more of a grey area b/c barbone's was an antique? Or because he is not as popular of a vendor here? Just trying to understand the logic here.

It sounds like he is complimenting her on it.

Did he state he had a problem? Just asking because I think it can be taken in more than one way.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here's the one I was thinking of, which I think may be a PSers ring. Is it considered more of a grey area b/c barbone's was an antique? Or because he is not as popular of a vendor here? Just trying to understand the logic here.

The Barbone ring is one he designed and made for his shop or is it a true antique? Because if it's a true antique, it is likely no one holds any rights to the design and anyone may copy it. I've made two rings based on true antique rings. (He actually does sound like he is complimenting her!)

 

[bludiva]

I dunno i read it as sarcastic, I'm guessing it's an antique but not sure. Haven't dug through his photos to find out. My point is sounds like everyone is copying everyone and I'm wondering where the line is drawn. The rule of thumb I've heard before is to change the design at least 10% (of course that is arbitrary and subjective)

 

[the_mother_thing]

I remember that PSers ring/thread, and @HS4S_2 had the trillion version made. I am 95% certain the ‘original’ was an antique.

 

[EC8]

Erika Winters:


Cvb:


SingleStone:

Cvb:

 

[Rfisher]

I think it is fine for you or anyone else to say this, however, I think you need to provide the picture of your ring and the ring she made. Elements of rings can certainly be done by others, because as has been said, most elements in rings have been done before. It would just depend on how close it is to being an exact copy of a truly original piece. I know Caysie won't make an exact copy, but if someone shows her elements from several rings that they like, she might incorporate some of those elements into a new ring or jewelry piece.

The problem in this case is that the ring is an original design, and the copy is virtually exact. It wasn't taking elements from multiple rings to make a different design.

I cannot claim that mine is an original design that's never been done. I won't claim that the elements are unique and original. However I can claim that they were put together by myself and TGP, and was used very strongly as CVB/ring owner's inspiration and presented as CVB's unique /bespoke creation.


However - I can claim that CVB is not practicing what she preaches. I'm not saying DK isn't guilty of not crediting any other designer as inspiration, or doing due diligence of researching the images he receives as inspirations or directions. But neither does CVB. Unless TGP wants to come on here and offer the information that she indeed was approached or credited and I'm ignorant to that fact? Then I'll eat crow. I like crow pastry.

 

[winnietucker]

Genuinely wondering, but what is the etiquette here? Is this a big no? Or is it ok if changes are made? I noticed her prices are very high and I thought DK only did stuff when people brought it to him (commissioned it?). So clearly someone wanted it but didn’t want to go through her. Is it because they’re both well known in the same circles? Or would the outrage apply to any copying jeweler?

 

[bludiva]

I like crow pastry.

 

[the_mother_thing]

There have been several threads on this “design poaching” topic in the past. The general consensus seemed to be (don’t quote me) that if something like 10 or 20% of the design elements were changed, it becomes a ‘new design’ for all intents & purposes. Design elements can be the angles, shapes of stones used, types of stones used, etc.

In the examples posted above of EW/SS rings vs CvB, no offense, but I can easily see pretty ‘material’ differences between them. All are lovely pieces in their own right.

 

[prinsad]

Yeah i think she has called out dk before similarly. And Victor barbone made some comment at cvb for doing the same thing not too long ago, i have to look for the post.... she said something like she felt it was ok to replicate his ring because it was an antique. Tough to claim or defend ownership of antique style designs imho b/c it has all been done before and will be again **grabs popcorn**

I read that and was wondering if it was okay to replicate an antique ring. I had DK use one of VBs 3 stones as inspiration for a ring I had made. I had 3 different inspiration rings but it turned out a lot like Victor Barbones vintage one. Now I’m curious if that’s okay after reading her post calling DK out.

 

[Rfisher]

Genuinely wondering, but what is the etiquette here? Is this a big no? Or is it ok if changes are made? I noticed her prices are very high and I thought DK only did stuff when people brought it to him (commissioned it?). So clearly someone wanted it but didn’t want to go through her. Is it because they’re both well known in the same circles? Or would the outrage apply to any copying jeweler?

I've mentioned this before and got shut down.
When a certain Burdeen one off hand forged scroll ring is done, and redone by (cast) DK, all hell breaks loose. When that same Burdeen scroll ring is redone and even offered as a stock item by Schubach, and is often recommended to people here, not a word is ever said. Just seems to always be against DK. It seems he is held to a different standard than others by some on here.

 

[winnietucker]

I've mentioned this before and got shut down.
When a certain Burdeen one off hand forged scroll ring is done, and redone by (cast) DK, all hell breaks loose. When that same Burdeen scroll ring is redone and even offered as a stock item by Schubach, and is often recommended to people here, not a word is ever said. Just seems to always be against DK. It seems he is held to a different standard than others by some on here.

So is it generally accepted as okay? Because no lie I just save photos of rings I like in my phone. In fact, last Friday I was at the jeweler showing her a photo of one of Brian Gavin’s setting and was like “I want my setting more like this one.” She didn’t say anything about not copying other designs, just that it wouldn’t be worth the money for me to do it since mine is already similar.

 

[bludiva]

I read that and was wondering if it was okay to replicate an antique ring. I had DK use one of VBs 3 stones as inspiration for a ring I had made. I had 3 different inspiration rings but it turned out a lot like Victor Barbones vintage one. Now I’m curious if that’s okay after reading her post calling DK out.

I think you should rest easy since it was a vintage ring and most any 3 stone design you can think of has likely been done before. But I dunno, this topic is interesting to me whenever it comes up b/c the answers aren't black & white. Let's see your ring and inspo photos!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Per @soxfan ‘s thread, the original ring was an antique sold by VB: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/antique-pear-setting-advice.243454/

For those who haven’t read the previous thread topics on copying designs, here ya go (I even started one a couple years ago and forgot):

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...inspired-by-piece-vs-stealing-designs.225184/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ok-to-copy-design.227067/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/inspired-by-vs-copy-in-custom-projects.229262/

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...set-if-a-pser-copied-your-ring-design.146937/

 

[Rfisher]

So is it generally accepted as okay? Because no lie I just save photos of rings I like in my phone. In fact, last Friday I was at the jeweler showing her a photo of one of Brian Gavin’s setting and was like “I want my setting more like this one.” She didn’t say anything about not copying other designs, just that it wouldn’t be worth the money for me to do it since mine is already similar.

I wouldn't say it's ok.
I myself wouldn't take a BG design to a jeweler and have it recreated. Some elements- sure.
I always ask the owner of rings for permission of possibly using their unique elements tho. They've always been gracious.
I've never been asked about my octagon. However- been told on here multiple times, as an after thought, that my ring image has been given to designers as inspiration for theirs. I posted it here. It's out there. It's ok.