Will you watch Prince William and Kate's wedding?

[Autumnovember]

Im confused again. How come Princess Diana became Princess Diana then and Kate isn't? They both married into the family?

 

[zoebartlett]

AN -- I heard or read somewhere that Victoria Beckham is really self-conscious about her smile (or is it her teeth?), which is why she doesn't smile too often.

I don't think Kate will ever become queen because she's only in the royal family by marriage. Queen Elizabeth's husband is Prince Philip, not king, because he's not of royal lineage. I think that's how it works.

Here's a random tidbit I heard earlier: If Kate and William have a baby boy someday, he'll become next in line after William to be king. Harry won't be in the running, so to speak.

 

[zoebartlett]

Im confused again. How come Princess Diana became Princess Diana then and Kate isn't? They both married into the family?

I could be wrong, but I don't think Diana was technically a true princess (meaning that she was only royalty by marriage, and titles such as princess are only given to members of the royal family).

Here's a blog that might explain it. http://kristinlynch.com/blog/archives/597

 

[Autumnovember]

AN -- I heard or read somewhere that Victoria Beckham is really self-conscious about her smile (or is it her teeth?), which is why she doesn't smile too often.

I don't think Kate will ever become queen because she's only in the royal family by marriage. Queen Elizabeth's husband is Prince Philip, not king, because he's not of royal lineage. I think that's how it works.

Here's a random tidbit I heard earlier: If Kate and William have a baby boy someday, he'll become next in line after William to be king. Harry won't be in the running, so to speak.

Ohhhhh ok, this makes a lot more sense. Thank you!

I feel bad for Harry. He has a lot less 'power' right?

 

[zoebartlett]

AN -- yes, I think so. Actually, that might be a good thing. Harry's still royalty, he can live the good life, but he won't have the same amount of pressure put on him that William (and possible future sons) has or will have.

 

[VRBeauty]

I think the dress was beautifull and perfectly fitting for a woman who might someday be queen. It sould have looked too severe on some women, but she was able to pull it off. I wasn't crazy about the veil either, but too much fluff would have been wrong for the dress. I would have liked flat lace trim - kinda like a mantilla - but I think the Anglicans might be concerned about borrowing anything that hints of Catholicism.

I don't think Kate will ever become queen because she's only in the royal family by marriage. Queen Elizabeth's husband is Prince Philip, not king, because he's not of royal lineage. I think that's how it works.

I'm not sure about that - I'm remembering that there was a lot of public concern that Camilla might have the title of "Queen" and to quell that, Charles sorta promised that she would not be called queen if he ascended to the throne. But now it rumors are swirling that he is trying to warm the public to the idea of her taking on the title of queen - which I assume that he, as king, could give her. But I have to admit I know nothing about these things!

 

[mayerling]

An explanation on why Diana was a princess and whether Kate will be queen:

Diana was the Princess of Wales because she married the Prince of Wales, just like Kate is a duchess because she married a duke. Diana being a princess had nothing to do with her being a princess already. In fact, she wasn't; she was just Lady Diana because her father was the Earl of Spencer.

Kate will be queen. It doesn't matter that she isn't of royal blood. Once Prince William accedes to the throne, he will be king and she will be queen. Prince Phillip is not King (not because he's not of royal blood - he is, he comes from the royal family of Greece), but because the title of King cannot be gained after marriage. This means that when the king marries his wife becomes queen, but when a queen marries her husband does not become king.

 

[Autumnovember]

An explanation on why Diana was a princess and whether Kate will be queen:

Diana was the Princess of Wales because she married the Prince of Wales, just like Kate is a duchess because she married a duke. Diana being a princess had nothing to do with her being a princess already. In fact, she wasn't; she was just Lady Diana because her father was the Earl of Spencer.

Kate will be queen. It doesn't matter that she isn't of royal blood. Once Prince William accedes to the throne, he will be king and she will be queen. Prince Phillip is not King (not because he's not of royal blood - he is, he comes from the royal family of Greece), but because the title of King cannot be gained after marriage. This means that when the king marries his wife becomes queen, but when a queen marries her husband does not become king.

But who decides when he becomes King? I'm totally dumb about this stuff. Does he become King when the current King dies or steps down? This is all so confusing!!! Will it be years and years down the road that they'll become king & queen??

 

[JewelFreak]

Here's how it works:

A King's wife is called Queen (consort) -- as in, Queen Elizabeth (later Queen Mother), or Queen Charlotte, wife of George III. Camilla will indeed one day be Queen Camilla. Because of Diana's popularity & the public's hostility there was talk that she might use the title Princess -- I doubt it. Whatever, in actual fact she will be Queen Camilla. She is really Princess of Wales now because she's married to the Prince of Wales.

When a woman who is a princess in her own right (Queen Alexandra, for instance, was a princess of Denmark, as the daughter of Denmark's King) marries an English Prince of the Blood, she is titled Princess (her first name), as Princess Alexandra was when Edward VII was still PoW. If the PoW's wife is NOT a princess before marriage, technically her title is Princess (husband's name). Like Princess Michael of Kent. Initially the Palace said Diana would be called Princess Charles; everybody hooted & hollered. The Palace shrugged & said, "in official announcements she will be called The Princess of Wales. It's not our business what the rest of you call her." Princess Diana is what they used, but it was not technically correct. Strictly, Kate is Princess William of Wales, Duchess of Cambridge, though nobody will ever end up calling her Princess William.

If the country has a reigning Queen as now, her husband is never called King. Prince Philip was born a Prince of Greece, renounced his title when he took British citizenship. He had no title at all beyond his military rank until George VI conveyed on him the Dukedom of Edinburgh & a few more titles shortly before his & Eliz.'s wedding. In 1957 Queen Elizabeth made him a Prince of the United Kingdom -- that was hers, as monarch, to give or not. He is correctly the Prince Consort.

Clear as mud?

--- Laurie

ETA: Of course William's son(s) will follow him in line to the throne, moving the rest of the "next-in-lines" back a place for each son. If William has only daughters, one of them would be Queen. George VI had 2 spare brothers, the Dukes of Kent & Gloucester (besides Edward VIII who abdicated), but his daughter Elizabeth succeeded him to the throne when he died.

 

[mayerling]

It most likely will be years before he becomes King.

Somebody becomes King when a monarch dies or abdicates. It is most unlikely that the Queen will abdicate, which means Charles will be King after her death. After Charles's death, William will be King. Given how the current queen is 85 and still going strong, and given how the monarchs tend to live long, I think it'll be a few decades before William is king.

 

[zoebartlett]

Oh, okay, thanks Mayerling. Sorry I gave the wrong info. Thanks for explaining it!

 

[lexie25]

I loved Kate's dress, but I was a bit disappointed in how much it was similar to Grace Kelly's wedding dress..I mean Kate has been portrayed as the "fashion icon" for quite some time now, so I expected her to wear something more original...
Also, I didnt like her hair- it looked a bit too plain. but she was a stunning bride!

 

[janinegirly]

There is a line of succession - passes to first born son (not to daughters unless there are no sons). You become King if you are next in line and the one prior stepped down or passed away. If you have 2 sons this is considered an heir and a spare (Harry) but everyone is aware that the spare will be bumped once the heir has children! I wouldn't feel sorry for Harry, the monarch's "power" is more symbolic and the "spare" has alot less pressure on him. Granted their role is less defined but they're often grateful to not have the pressure their whole life of "one day you will be KING". Of course if Wills abdicated then Harry would step in (ala Prince Edward/King George, the Queen's uncle and father) but that has only happened once in recent history.

A woman who marries a King becomes Queen. A man who marries a Queen will not be King b/c King is higher than Queen and obviously that can't be. I have no idea how they (the Queen) determines which title should be used (Prince vs Countess vs Duchess) but they can have multiple titles and Kate's title is determined by whatever William's is. So she is Duchess of Cambridge and Princess William of Wales. It is a good question why Diana was Princess of Wales rather than Prince Charles of Wales...not clear on that one. She wasn't royalty but she was aristocracy ('Lady").

 

[AGBF]

A woman who marries a King becomes Queen. A man who marries a Queen will not be King b/c King is higher than Queen and obviously that can't be. I have no idea how they (the Queen) determines which title should be used (Prince vs Countess vs Duchess) but they can have multiple titles and Kate's title is determined by whatever William's is. So she is Duchess of Cambridge and Princess William of Wales. It is a good question why Diana was Princess of Wales rather than Prince Charles of Wales...not clear on that one. She wasn't royalty but she was aristocracy ('Lady").

Laurie did a really good job explaining the basics of how the English monarchy works in her posting above. A few of your statements above, janinegirly, are just a trifle off. One wouldn't say that a king is "higher" than a queen. A sovereign queen, or Queen regnum, like Queen Elizabeth II who rules in her own right has just as much status as did any of the kings of Great Britain/the United Kingdom. They were not, "higher" than she is in rank. They did have the ability to pass on the courtesy title of, "Queen" (as in "Queen consort") to their wives, however, while reigning English queens such as Elizabeth II and Queen Victoria have been unable to make their husbands into kings. (Queen Victoria tried and failed with Prince Albert.)

The reason that Lady Diana Spencer became The Princess of Wales when she married Prince Charles was that his title was The Prince of Wales. He was never styled, "Prince Charles of Wales". He was born, "Prince Charles" and when his mother became the sovereign he became, "The Prince Charles". When he was invested as, "The Prince of Wales" he had that title as well as others he has been granted. One of the titles he holds is not, however, "Prince Charles of Wales".

BTW, The courtesy title of, "Lady" is given to the daughters of the higher members of the aristocracy only: to Earls (like Diana's father, Earl Spencer), Marquesses, and Dukes. The daughters of Viscounts and Barons are given the style, "the honorable".

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The commentators I was listening to this morning said that she will likely be called Princess Catherine since her husband is called Prince William. I would think that is likely because I think she will be accepted as a princess because she actually acts and looks like one!

To whoever asked about the BM or MOH in white, I think that is a tradition that the girl attendants wear white. I do not recall an English royal wedding that did not have white for the bridesmaids.

 

[janinegirly]

Interesting Deb. I didn't mean to imply King is higher than Queen in the sense that Kings before were above Queen Elizabeth. Just that a non-royal cannot marry in and take a title that would imply he is of higher title than the monarch. Meaning if Prince Phillip were King that would imply he is the monarch which he is cannot be.
This is all from memory bank, so might be off in some of my terminlogy...I'm just using my commoner terms..haha, I love that word today!

I'd be interested to hear if white worn by maid of honors is common, to me it was a bit of an upstaging. Not just color but the form fitting style. Also is she not supposed to wear a hat? In any case everyone is talking about Pippa now. With Harry now being the most eligible bachelor in England, maybe it is a natural coupling, haha.

 

[mayerling]

Just to clarify: aristocracy and nobility are not synonymous. Having a title means that somebody is a noble (as opposed to a commoner, like Kate). However, somebody can be an aristocrat without a title (like Camilla was).

 

[tyty333]

An explanation on why Diana was a princess and whether Kate will be queen:

Diana was the Princess of Wales because she married the Prince of Wales, just like Kate is a duchess because she married a duke. Diana being a princess had nothing to do with her being a princess already. In fact, she wasn't; she was just Lady Diana because her father was the Earl of Spencer.

Kate will be queen. It doesn't matter that she isn't of royal blood. Once Prince William accedes to the throne, he will be king and she will be queen. Prince Phillip is not King (not because he's not of royal blood - he is, he comes from the royal family of Greece), but because the title of King cannot be gained after marriage. This means that when the king marries his wife becomes queen, but when a queen marries her husband does not become king.

I thought I understood all this stuff but...I guess not. So...why is Willam a Prince since he is not a Prince of somewhere?
Shouldnt he only be a Duke (until his father dies) if I follow the logic. When William and Kate have kids will they be little
dukes and duchesses? I'm thinking they'll probably be prince and princesses...but how if they are not Prince of anywhere
and there Dad is not a prince of anywhere?

I'm missing something in the big picture.

 

[that_someone_special]

I couldn't sleep so I got up at 2am my time and watched until about 6:30... I loved it. Kate is absolutely so elegant.

 

[janinegirly]

An explanation on why Diana was a princess and whether Kate will be queen:

Diana was the Princess of Wales because she married the Prince of Wales, just like Kate is a duchess because she married a duke. Diana being a princess had nothing to do with her being a princess already. In fact, she wasn't; she was just Lady Diana because her father was the Earl of Spencer.

Kate will be queen. It doesn't matter that she isn't of royal blood. Once Prince William accedes to the throne, he will be king and she will be queen. Prince Phillip is not King (not because he's not of royal blood - he is, he comes from the royal family of Greece), but because the title of King cannot be gained after marriage. This means that when the king marries his wife becomes queen, but when a queen marries her husband does not become king.

I thought I understood all this stuff but...I guess not. So...why is Willam a Prince since he is not a Prince of somewhere?
Shouldnt he only be a Duke (until his father dies) if I follow the logic. When William and Kate have kids will they be little
dukes and duchesses? I'm thinking they'll probably be prince and princesses...but how if they are not Prince of anywhere
and there Dad is not a prince of anywhere?

I'm missing something in the big picture.

From what I know Wiliam was born Prince of Wales. He is still Prince of Wales. He acquired the Duke title from the Queen after marriage. Supposedly this Duke title is higher than Prince of Wales which is why he will be referred to that way but both titles are accurate. Kate can take the title Duchess and Princess William of Wales, but not Princess Catherine of Wales as she was not born a Princess. Good question on the kids. Andrew and Fergie became Duke and Duchess (can't remember of where) and their daughters are princesses (with awful hats!).

 

[kenny]

This is my favorite wedding shot.
Actually it's a screen capture I took when I paused a BBC video.

I love how this camera operator was smart enough to NOT look where the action is.
It really tells the story.

 

[mayerling]

An explanation on why Diana was a princess and whether Kate will be queen:

Diana was the Princess of Wales because she married the Prince of Wales, just like Kate is a duchess because she married a duke. Diana being a princess had nothing to do with her being a princess already. In fact, she wasn't; she was just Lady Diana because her father was the Earl of Spencer.

Kate will be queen. It doesn't matter that she isn't of royal blood. Once Prince William accedes to the throne, he will be king and she will be queen. Prince Phillip is not King (not because he's not of royal blood - he is, he comes from the royal family of Greece), but because the title of King cannot be gained after marriage. This means that when the king marries his wife becomes queen, but when a queen marries her husband does not become king.

I thought I understood all this stuff but...I guess not. So...why is Willam a Prince since he is not a Prince of somewhere?
Shouldnt he only be a Duke (until his father dies) if I follow the logic. When William and Kate have kids will they be little
dukes and duchesses? I'm thinking they'll probably be prince and princesses...but how if they are not Prince of anywhere
and there Dad is not a prince of anywhere?

I'm missing something in the big picture.

The male-line grandchildren of the monarch are styled Prince and Princess (except for Prince Edward's kids because he chose not to have them styled as such). These kids (basically William, Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie) are styled Prince FirstName of Place-father-is-a-prince-of. For example, Prince William of Wales/Princess Beatrice of York. These are titles they have just because they're grandchildren of the monarch. And these are titles they can't pass on. So Kate would be Princess William of Wales because he can't pass on his princely title to her and make her a princess of her own.

The title of "Duke" is a proper title that he now possesses (on his own, not just because he's related to the monarch), which he can pass on to his wife. Since he will be king once, and probably be made Prince of Wales once Charles is king, chances are his children will also be styled Prince/Princess FirstName of Wales.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

In regards to Pippa in white, I think I read that in British culture the bridesmaids wear the same color as the bride.

I read years ago that the purpose of the bridesmaid is to confuse evil spirits (I think?) so that they don't know which woman is the bride. If that is the case, then traditionally-speaking, bridesmaids should wear the same color as the bride.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

In regards to Pippa in white, I think I read that in British culture the bridesmaids wear the same color as the bride.

I read years ago that the purpose of the bridesmaid is to confuse evil spirits (I think?) so that they don't know which woman is the bride. If that is the case, then traditionally-speaking, bridesmaids should wear the same color as the bride.

Now it's just the chosen color of evil MILs!

 

[janinegirly]

This is my favorite wedding shot.
Actually it's a screen capture I took when I paused a BBC video.

I love how this camera operator was smart enough to NOT look where the action is.
It really tells the story.

What's the story, that this is the heaviest covered global news/media event for some time? No news there!

 

[janinegirly]

In regards to Pippa in white, I think I read that in British culture the bridesmaids wear the same color as the bride.

I read years ago that the purpose of the bridesmaid is to confuse evil spirits (I think?) so that they don't know which woman is the bride. If that is the case, then traditionally-speaking, bridesmaids should wear the same color as the bride.

Now it's just the chosen color of evil MILs!

Ah, makes sense, NEL!! Still raised some eyebrows I think..

And lol HH! My MIL told me straight faced she would wear white. I mean she is a nice lady so I just had to assume she had no clue on it was a faux pas. But come on, SIL/BIL, no one would think to mention it? I got lucky and apparently she couldn't fit into her white dress so wore a light brown dress. Much more suitable considering it was also a fall wedding!

 

[AGBF]

The commentators I was listening to this morning said that she will likely be called Princess Catherine since her husband is called Prince William. I would think that is likely because I think she will be accepted as a princess because she actually acts and looks like one!

There are several different issues here, diamondseeker. One is whether she is a princess; one is whether she is "Princess Catherine"; and another is whether she will be called, "Princess Catherine".

She is a princess now, as well as a royal duchess. She is married to a prince, HRH Prince William of Wales and a royal duke, HRH The Duke of Cambridge. Therefore, she is, by marriage, both a royal princess and a royal duchess. She is HRH Princess William of Wales and HRH The Duchess of Cambridge. And that "HRH" (Her Royal Highhness") is very important! It was one of the points over which Charles and Diana fought when they divorced; she wanted to retain her HRH. He was adamant that she had to renounce it. It meant that people who used to curtsey to her no longer had to!

Although Catherine is now a princess, she is not, and never will be, "Princess Catherine". Lady Diana was never, "Princess Diana". To have one's first name used after the title, "Princess", one has to be born a princess, to be a princess in one's own right. Catherine was not born a princess. In certain, rare cases the monarch may grant a woman the right to use the style "Princess First Name", but there has to be a compelling reason for her doing so.

Finally, there is the matter of whether she will be called, "Princess Catherine". I can guarantee that she will be, because people are ignorant. It grates on my ears and my nerves just as it always did to hear, "Princess Diana", but we may as well all get used to it!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[AGBF]

The male-line grandchildren of the monarch are styled Prince and Princess (except for Prince Edward's kids because he chose not to have them styled as such). These kids (basically William, Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie) are styled Prince FirstName of Place-father-is-a-prince-of.

You are right that Edward's son and daughter are known as Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Windsor, but legally they remain TRH Prince James and Princess Louise of Wessex.

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[VRBeauty]

Finally, there is the matter of whether she will be called, "Princess Catherine". I can guarantee that she will be, because people are ignorant. It grates on my ears and my nerves just as it always did to hear, "Princess Diana", but we may as well all get used to it!

Ouch!

I'll try to avoid hurting your ears!

 

[mayerling]

The male-line grandchildren of the monarch are styled Prince and Princess (except for Prince Edward's kids because he chose not to have them styled as such). These kids (basically William, Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie) are styled Prince FirstName of Place-father-is-a-prince-of.

You are right that Edward's son and daughter are known as Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Windsor, but legally they remain TRH Prince James and Princess Louise of Wessex.

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

You're right. I shouldn't have implied that they are not TRH Prince/Princess... I just meant they're generally styled as Viscount and Lady as per their parents' wishes.