will Obama be a good President?

[Kaleigh]

Date: 6/6/2008 1:02:46 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/6/2008 12:48:02 AM
Author: luckystar112

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 86px">Date: 6/6/2008 12:34:59 AM
Author: FrekeChild

He''s unaware of more than that unfortunately.

I don''t understand why you have to be so rude.

Perhaps that''s why republicans, myself included, aren''t participating in the McCain thread.

I know you haven''t said anything to me personally, but I''m getting a strong ''know it all'' vibe from you, and the way you (and others) are resorting to insults and sarcasm is just dropping your credibility bit by bit by bit.

Sorry Freke....don''t get offended by me saying that. I actually really like you. I''m thinking I should probably stay out of this section though! Too tough of a crowd for me.

LS112
YAY!!! first republican on PS.

don''t let these Dems scare you. give them a piece of your mind

I''m a republican, but missed the date to switch. I will no more vote for McCain than fly......

 

[FrekeChild]

Why is that Kaleigh?

 

[miraclesrule]

Let me first preface this by saying that I am/was a single parent of one female child, but had two outdoor cats. I am in an industry that sits as a hub for many industries, including medical, legal, labor, political, special interests...but my passion is the health care industry. This was not a professional experience....I have wayyyyyyy too many of those to describe. This was one of my personal ones. Both of these situations occurred within two weeks of each other. It was surreal.

The first:

I woke up one morning. It was a normal morning. Wake up, pee, make tea or coffee, maybe an English muffin or egg, whatever...you know what I mean. Then it''s time to feed the cats. I go outside and usually my cats respond to the sound of me peeing, at act like soldiers who are at the door waiting for the food. But on this day, only one cat is there. I call out for my other cat. MERCEDES!!! Where are you MERCEDES?!?!?!?! Then I notice Mercedes limping out of a bush toward me. He is not walking on all fours. He is holding up one leg completely. I go over to him and try to find out what is going on and he is not himself. He is not bleeding. He doesn''t act as though he is in pain. But I know that I need to get him to a pet hospital. I call my friend who is really good with animals. (Mercedes left a nice little scar across my chest trying to get him into a cat carrier for the move into the house where this occurred, so I still had a little PTSD going on). My friend managed to help me wrap Mercedes up and she drove to the animal hospital while I called my employer to tell them I had an emergency and would be late and would keep them posted. I noticed that Mercedes didn''t appear to be in pain when we wrapped him up and put him in my arms and one of his eyes were really dilated. This is the crux....

When I walked into the animal hospital, two people were walking toward me and I was walking toward them. They were asking me everything and I was explaining everything as we were walking toward each other and I was transferring his body to theirs so they could take him into the back for his workup. I was scared. I didn''t know what I would tell my daughter, who loved her cats like her siblings. Within...oh...35 minutes or so, I was called into the back to await the vet. I waited for another...oh, 5-10 minutes before the vet came in. She told me that she couldn''t tell exactly what had happened but that Mercedes had a brachial nerve avulsion. She told me that he might not ever be able to use his front right extremity and have feeling again. She offered me several scenerios that would have created the problem, but she really wanted to keep him overnight for observation and that I could call and come back in the morning. (This is condensed). Okay, Im cool. I learn that I can do "feline physical therapy" (as I dubbed it). You don''t want to the cat to chew his paw off as his feeling is coming back, etc, etc. etc.....

Fast forward to the following week....

I am at a friends house and it is 10:00 at night. My daughter (16 years old) calls me to tell me that she can''t walk. She has an abcess that she didn''t tell me about, because she thought it would go away. She has a cheer competition the next day in L.A. and has to be ready at 8:00 a.m. I am like a jet and probably exceed the speed limit to go get my kid and take her to the E.R (In 16 years, my daughter had never been to the E.R since she was a baby). I remember that my HMO had just changed our designated hospital to Grossmont E.R instead of Alvarado E.R. which are roughly 4 miles apart. When we get to the E.R at Grossmont it is packed. I mean P.A.C.K.E.D. There is a 2 yr-old with a gash across her forehead that would make any parent faint. There is a Border Patrol Officer with a broken ankle. There are a lot of people with various colds and ailments that range from a 1-10 on the pain scale. After 2 FREAKING HOURS we are no further along than we we arrived. My daughter is in extreme pain. She is tired. She is scared. I have witnessed the parents of the 2-yr old decide who will stay at the hospital until 4 am.m for the plastic surgeon to arrive, etc..etc. I start talking to people (because I can''t NOT talk to people)...and find out that many of them are all with the same HMO that I am with. I decide to call the E.R at Alvarado hospital (4- miles away) and ask what their wait time is.

I know you know where this is going......

They have no wait time. They have all the equipment...all the staff...but no patients. Why??? Because the HMO negiotiated a new contract with Grossmont. I try to educate the parents and the Border Patrol Officer that the service will be covered if their doctor says that the service was an emergency, but they are so scared that they will be stuck with the bill that they are paralyzed into staying at that hospital.

I will have no more of it. I look at my daughter, and at 12:30 a.m. I tell her, we are out of here. We are going to Alvarado Hospital. Within 30 minutes, my daughter was processed, examined, treated, and we were released and home by 2 a.m. (She did have a huge abcess that needed lancing, drainage, and meds, and was able to compete with her squad, but that isn''t the story).

The story is....you get more HUMANE treatment if your are not HUMAN.

Disclaimer: I so am not re-reading what I just wrote......

 

[diamondfan]

Miracles, thanks! Not too hard though, you know I have that bad disc!!!

I think it is true about insurance. Doctors charge a lot, knowing they will be lucky to get a part of it.

Also, drug companies release drugs that are not always safe, have to recall them, and the FDA does not pass certain medications that are in wide use in Europe and are fine. Why? I assume money. Cannot imagine another reason. They hate when a drug becomes OTC from RC, they lose a lot of money that way.

And, yeah, HMO's really started things on a bad spiral. Everything now needs an ICD-9 code or some type of DX codes. Cannot get diddly done without one. You do not exist without a freaking code number. Referrals are also a pain. In network doctors are not always top notch, but cost less. We all know of people who got terribly sick or died because they could not get in for a test or procedure. Really stinks. And I have no answers, not even little ones...but I wish I did. The system is bogged down in red tape and ridiculous bureaucratic stuff.

I also know doctors advising young people to get into vetrinary med, as people will shell out a lot for their animals (me included) and since mostly you pay and that is it, it is more profitable. There is of course pet insurance, but typically the vet does not deal with it, and gets paid immediately. In two years of having Maya my vet bills have been in the thousands and she is healthy for the most part, that is mostly routine stuff with the exception of demodectic mange.

The ER stuff is so scary. I have been in many times, and some people use it as their regular medical treatment, as they cannot be turned away. Triage means if your issue is marginal and suddenly and really serious case comes in (esp. by ambulance), you get bumped according to severity. Makes sense, but sit 4-6 hours in an Er, as I have many times, and it stinks.

 

[miraclesrule]

Dayum.....a typo in the most important sentence....ugh....

 

[Kaleigh]

I can''t have 4 more years of same, same same.

 

[diamondfan]

K, do you think it will be? I would hope McCain is at least trying to be different, goodness knows old George ain''t going down in history favorably...

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 6/6/2008 1:16:25 AM
Author: FrekeChild
Why is that Kaleigh?

See a few posts below...

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 6/6/2008 1:43:46 AM
Author: diamondfan
K, do you think it will be? I would hope McCain is at least trying to be different, goodness knows old George ain''t going down in history favorably...

In a perfect world I would hope he makes strides to right the wrongs of the Bush administration. I have to say, I do respect him a lot. I value what he did for our country. I just don''t think he''s the candiadate I can get behind at this point. We''ll see.

 

[miraclesrule]

The point of my story was to illustrate that our society is serioulsy screwed up. In a more perfect world, the admissions at the overwhelmed E.R. would have been coordinating with the the empty E.R. which was 4 miles away and ushering patients to share the load. It would have been a win-win, common sense solution.

The entire point, which is often ignored, is that the solution is not rocket science. Although it would take common sense...sense is anything but common. It should be called "rare sense", because it appears as though most of our U.S. heath care systems have lost all sense completely.

 

[diamondfan]

I am having a tough time too. Really trying to suss it all out. Just watched Ollie North tell Hannity that he thinks Obama is a phony empty suit from the top of his head to his feet. But also pointed out that he has a roster of contributors the likes of which has never been seen, has financially been just so superior. Hannity likened him to a phenom or someone who has mesmerized the people, and I know big time supporters of his (friends of mine in Villanova) who said he was like watching Robert Kennedy, and it made them all emotional. So it is hard to say. Michelle leaves me cold, and really only know that Cindy has a lot of money from her family, that is about it. I still wish I could take pieces and parts of each of them and make a great candidate!

 

[luckystar112]

Interesting fact about Bush that I''m sure all of you already know:

He holds the highest approval rating title and the lowest!

Moving on....
Miracles, that''s a crazy story.

As much as I''m looking forward to having health insurance, I can tell it''s going to be a huge PITA.
I''ve heard insurance companies referred to as "legal gambling" which I think is a pretty accurate description.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:34:59 AM
Author: FrekeChild

Did you know DF that McCain is doing poorly financially? Did you know that it''s because his financial backers are bigwig Republicans who are limited to how much they can contribute? Did you know that Obama is doing great financially? Did you know that it''s because his online following is making contributions of whatever they can afford (a few dollars and up) and that they have no real limit because they contribute so little, but that the number of contributors is going up? And that a lot of his online followers and contributors are YOUNG? As in 18 and up?

Speaking as a young person (26) I''ll say it again- I''ve never seen anything like it. I don''t know that I will again.

I think, DF, that you need to get your head out of the sand. Because right now, I''m unimpressed with all of the ''arguments'' you''ve made so far.

Freke

you mean out of your A$$

you''re right,i don''t know diddly. i wasn''t born here in the U.S. ..i can''t win in an argument cuz english is my second language.

but....for a 26 yr old, you sure talk like you been around forever.

 

[miraclesrule]

luckystar....
My take on the high of the approval rating was the emotionality of the aftermath of 9/11. The low rathing was the reality of sober reflection and the benefit of hindsight. How many times have we projected a fantasy on someone we were dating only to find out they were a dude.

Besides, if I use sports as an analogy...the homerun hitters also have the highest strikeout rates. It certainly doesn''t make them the best all-around baseball players. It just makes them what they are. And even then, we discovered that they probably all cheated by using steroids.

I am more apt to support an honest, albeit flawed, human being...than a phony lying manipulating cheater...or a good intentioned incompetent human. We need progress...and that will probably take a progressive intelligent honest, albeit imperfect, human being.

 

[luckystar112]

I agree with the "empty suit" comment about Obama. The man can speak, but the speech doesn't necessarily make the man.
Also, I just truly feel like I'm re-living four years ago. It is just me or have elections become so commercial? Obama is so popular, but it reminds me of that Drew Barrymoore movie...what was it? NEVER BEEN KISSED. Have you seen it? Her brother rob goes to the school and chugs a gallon of cole slaw and all of a sudeen he's the big man on campus...everyone else is just sheep. That's the feeling I get with Obama. I'm seriously surprised that people are willing to put so much faith in a man who has done virtually nothing. And so many people are just hopping on the bandwagon.


Just to be clear, I'm NOT talking about you very smart people who have done your research and know what you like and what you don't. I'm talking about people who are going to vote for Obama because Oprah told them to, or because Diddy said "vote or die". You ask people what they like about him and they say, "He's a great speaker. You can tell he really cares." Okay...but what has he done? "He's the best orator of our time!" Really? Cause if you ask people, Hitler was a great orator (I'm NOT comparing the two, just saying...) Know what I mean? Probably not...oh well. lol. He's a beautiful public speaker, but that's about all I can say about him.

 

[diamondfan]

Lucky, I agree with you. If you look at political trends and things, charisma and the ability to charge up the people is hugely vital. You are right, Hitler was viewed by MANY to be a brilliant speaker, tapping into the fears of the masses and offering hope for change from the status quo to a populace unhappy with current trends. I find Obama sounds great, and on paper looks good, but there is something hollow and insincere about it to me. He is simply another politician, young, vibrant, charismatic, yes, who knows he is not going to get elected without saying the things he is. And I am sure he believes in a lot of those things. It does not take a genius to realize that the war is a terrible tragedy in terms of loss of life, that we must have a strategy to get out, I mean, don't we still have troops in places from decades ago, and can we really allow that again? But I still do not get a sense of HOW and WHAT he is changing things. I can get up there and say how terrible the economy is and how the war is awful, very few would dispute those comments. Give me something real.

And there is a sheep mentality. Oprah and this star and that famous person etc...well, I am not voting based on that. I might buy the books she recommends, but my politics cannot be influenced that easily.

I am impressed there are so many well informed people here. I just think one can make a case any which way, for or against, when one feels deeply. Doesn't change my experience, but I value the intelligence and passion.

 

[miraclesrule]

Diamond Fan and Luckystar....
Those are valid concerns. Talk is cheap. So...finally, I decided to buy Obama''s book and read it. The Audacity of Hope. Initially, I was dreading it...mainly because it was in paperback and I had to use reading glasses! Ugh...

However, because I have been to the Rayburn building on Capitol Hill and his description of what goes on there resonated with my experiences at the Capitol, it really caught my attention. After that, the read was rather mesmerizing because Obama is more transparent about the machinations of government than most other political books by candidates. I would suggest reading it. Some parts are somewhat drawn out and I struggled through some of them, but for the most part, I would have to say that the book was thought provoking and candid and provided insight into why he has been able to lead a movement. It''s rather refreshing.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/6/2008 2:09:06 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
Freke

you mean out of your A$$

you're right,i don't know diddly. i wasn't born here in the U.S. ..i can't win in an argument cuz english is my second language.

but....for a 26 yr old, you sure talk like you been around forever.

Right now I feel like it. I have a lot of sh!t going on in my life right now, that frankly, I just don't want to deal with. So I've been immersing myself in politics.

Just because english is your second language doesn't mean you can't win an argument, much less at least argue. I've told you before that I won't fault your grammar, spelling or punctuation. I know mine certainly isn't all that great, and english is my only language. Minus the culinary French and basic understanding of Spanish...

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/6/2008 2:20:21 AM
Author: luckystar112
Just to be clear, I''m NOT talking about you very smart people who have done your research and know what you like and what you don''t. I''m talking about people who are going to vote for Obama because Oprah told them to, or because Diddy said ''vote or die''. You ask people what they like about him and they say, ''He''s a great speaker. You can tell he really cares.'' Okay...but what has he done? ''He''s the best orator of our time!'' Really? Cause if you ask people, Hitler was a great orator (I''m NOT comparing the two, just saying...) Know what I mean? Probably not...oh well. lol. He''s a beautiful public speaker, but that''s about all I can say about him.

Ok, I''m just going to say that people who vote for politicians JUST BECAUSE A FLIPPING CELEBRITY told them to freak me out. Oprah is cool and all, but I''m sure her reasoning for backing him is probably a lot different than mine. And don''t get me started on Diddy...

 

[MoonWater]

Another drive by posting since I'm on my way to work...

miraclesrule...YES GET TO WORK ON THAT BOOK...or perhaps two or three books!

Also, again, I think the empty suit argument is quite silly, ESPECIALLY when based on the ignorance of SOME of Obama's supporters. I thought we already covered the fact that most Americans are ignorant (stupid the book said right?). If I spent my time judging Hillary or McCain only or mostly by their supporters, I would have a helluva lot more nasty things to say about them (how about that lady being upset by the "inadequate black man"...er...you needed to phrase it that way?). So yeah, can someone explain that logic to me? If you know, at the very least because of some of us PSers, that there is obviously more to the man than his speeches. Why on Earth would you still think of the empty suit thing?

And really, can we leave Hitler out of this regarding Obama? Must everyone resort to Hitler? Hmm...I think I should post that guilt by association article where it showed how many degrees each candidate was from Hitler. Was good for a laugh (and a way of pointing out people's stupidity...no this is not directed at you lucky, but this did make me think of that article).

ETA: I did some yoga and meditation...so I'm breathing ladies

 

[diamondfan]

The empty suit comment in still coming up and it means to mean he is a bit of a lightweight and not say much of substance. He sounds good, but it is like a facade at a movie studio, looks good up front but there is not a lot behind. I certainly think he is smart and has great potential, and I really think he might become our next President.

I would not ever chose a candidate because a celebrity likes them, though certainly a celeb can be very well informed and politically savvy. But some of them think because they make movies or tv shows that we should listen to their views. No thanks.

Hitler is an example in that historically he was viewed in certain lights, before the holocaust, and was thought by many to be a great leader. As a Jew, it is gross to talk about him, but the point of people saying he had charisma, was a great speaker, and advocated change which resonated with the masses who were unhappy with their current government, well, this is rhetoric I have heard all throughout this campaign. It is illustrative about what qualities make a candidate appealing in a vacuum, away from the other stuff. It sounds great, makes people feel good, inspires them to vote, which is great, but is not often what is done in office. Kennedy beat Nixon to those who WATCHED the debate on television while those who listened on the radio thought Nixon beat Kennedy. How one perceives the candidate on many levels, including his appeal, make an impact in the voting booth. If McCain were Obama''s age, even if his policies were the same as they are now, it would make a difference in how he is viewed.

 

[MoonWater]

The empty suit comment to me means that people have not done their own research and expect to get everything from a speech.

I understand the Hitler analogy, I just think it''s an overused example (and not just with being a great speaker) and inappropriate in light of the views by some Jewish people that Obama will not protect Israel. Which of course brings us to another topic that really should be discussed here but likely never could because I can already see the flames. You can''t critisize any of Israel flaws without people claming you''re anti-Semetic or a Holocaust denier. It''s absurd. I''m sure Karen knows what I''m talking about.

Another thing about the Hitler analogy is the history and how he amassed such power and how he turned so many against the Jewish population. I really wish my FI cared enough to come into this thread because he''s more informed than I or the average young person (or old for that matter) on the subject. He''s also a great Obama supporter and would never compare the two on such ridiculous clams. MLK, jr was a great speaker too, yet would anyone dare come him to Hitler?

 

[Erin]

How can he be an empty suit? It's worth noting that during most of Obama's tenure both in Springfield and Washington, he was a junior member and in the minority party, which in itself stymied his ability to pass legislation. True, Obama did show defiance when he unsuccessfully pushed legislation to create an Office of Public Integrity, which would have enforced anti-corruption laws. But that kind of power-challenging move, which was met with strong resistance from both parties, was an exception.

He has two bills which became law, that have his name on them. The Lugar-Obama bill expands efforts to destroy WMDs (e.g. in the former Soviet states). The Coburn-Obama Transparency Act created a website managed by OMB for ensuring transparency of funds allocated to government agencies. It tracks all federal spending, and allows Google-type searches based on agency, types of funding, etc.

His most impressive accomplishment in the U.S. Senate is when the Senate passed a major ethics/lobbying reform bill. The bill bans gifts/meals from lobbyists; puts an end to subsidized corporate jets; requires full disclosure of earmarks (who are the earmarks for, and for what purpose); places restrictions on retiring members of Congress going immediately into lobbying; requires lobbyists to disclose bundling of contributions to Congress, candidates or committees. This was a HUGE victory for Senator Obama. It still needs to be reconciled with a House version of the bill, and then signed by the president.


Read his Blueprint for Change in America http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

 

[diamondfan]

As a Jew I feel I can make a general analagous statement. Period. I do not draw any other similarities between them.

The empty suit comment is again about a sense or feeling. I am not basing it solely on his speeches.

And while I am sure he did some things of note, I have also went on his website which has his voting record for Q1 2008 for the 110th Congress (Barack Obama US Senator for Illinois at Obama.Senate.Gov). He did NOT VOTE 109 times out of 140 times on all the issues set before the congress. Abstaining 109 out of 140 times does not help show his views or stance on things. I go to look up how he voted and get very little sense of his views as a high percentage of the time he just did not vote, and I wonder why.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/6/2008 10:04:19 AM
Author: diamondfan
As a Jew I feel I can make a general analagous statement. Period. I do not draw any other similarities between them.

The empty suit comment is again about a sense or feeling. I am not basing it solely on his speeches.

And while I am sure he did some things of note, I have also went on his website which has his voting record for Q1 2008 for the 110th Congress (Barack Obama US Senator for Illinois at Obama.Senate.Gov). He did NOT VOTE 109 times out of 140 times on all the issues set before the congress. Abstaining 109 out of 140 times does not help show his views or stance on things. I go to look up how he voted and get very little sense of his views as a high percentage of the time he just did not vote, and I wonder why.

Well ok...as a black person, I'm offend by the comparison. How's that?

But seriously, the analogy made, including the radio v. tv on Kennedy v. Nixon is projecting the stupidity (or lack of substance) of the audience onto the candidate. Pardon me if I don't operate that way.

Starset, thumps up! An empty suit wouldn't have even attempted to pass those into law.

 

[Erin]

Sometimes the 'present' votes were in line with instructions from Democratic leaders or because he objected to provisions in bills that he might otherwise support. Sometimes he used the 'present' vote to protest bills that he believed had been drafted unconstitutionally or as part of a broader legislative strategy. In more than 50 votes, voting 'present' seemed to be acting in concert with other Democrats as part of a strategy.

In Illinois, political experts say voting 'present' is a relatively common way for lawmakers to express disapproval of a measure. It can at times help avoid running the risks of voting no. If you are worried about your next election, the 'present' vote gives you political cover. This is an option that does not exist in every state and reflects Illinois political culture.

 

[luckystar112]

Sure, MLK and Obama are both great speakers, but MLK backed it up. He had a track record. He gained respect through action as well as words.

To ME, and again, not talking about those of you who have done your research, the average American voter can''t go further than saying what a great speaker he is. And I think a lot of younger people ARE influenced by what the media tells them, and right now the media is telling them that Obama is "cool". I totally think that voters can be influenced by things other than his record and where he stands on issues. I don''t think it''s a coincidence that he has won 90% of that black vote.
Also, I think Obama tells people what they want to hear. He states the obvious. He says things that no one will disagree with. "War is bad". "Oil prices are too high". Okay, Captain obvious.

The other thing is that I think Bush has given Republicans a bad name. He''s essentially turned his own party into the new red scare. I think what a lot of people like about Obama and Hillary is that they aren''t BUSH. Period. And so if a Democrat is in office all of America''s problems are just going to melt away. I think a lot of people aren''t going to consider McCain because they think they''ll be electing another Bush in office, and as someone said earlier, "more of the same old same old".

Let''s face it. It''s not cool to be a Republican these days. They are thrown into a lump of bible-thumping, wealthy, homophobic, war-loving, rednecks. That''s why I think it''s "cool" to vote for Obama. And it was "cool" to vote for John Kerry. I was actually EXTREMELY surprised that Bush was elected to another term, because they media surrounding the election was so pro-Kerry". I THINK it''s because voters got too comfortable and didn''t vote because they thought they had it in the bag.

Also, I don''t think this forum represents the average American voter that I am talking about above. Just thought I''d add that in there again! I''m thinking more along the lines of my mother and grandfather, who I don''t discuss politics with EVER because I get so annoyed at what followers they are.

 

[MoonWater]

*sigh*

I'm not really sure why this is so hard to understand. You're proof of the lack of action of Obama is based on ignorant voters that only love him due to the media or the hype. Um, can you please explain to me how this automatically indicates that Obama does not back up his words with action? How it proves he has accomplished nothing (or too little). I would absolutely LOVE to hear your argument for this. Again, I will say, you can not project the ignorance and stupidity of a person's supporters onto them. Otherwise Ron Paul is an insane racist and no one should like him.

Yes, he says the obvious (so does Hillary and McCain, even if McCain supports the war he's already trying to claim a date for troops to come back, something I thought ALL of the candidates were wrong on...there ain't no way to figure that out at this point), and thank the heavens he uses COMMON SENSE. This is something that has been lacking to an extreme degree in politics.

Re: MLK, jr. I think you missed the point in my problem with using Hitler as an example. Hitler was NOT an empty suit, he accomplished a crapload, it's just what he did was absolutely horrid. So to say Obama is like an empty suit, which indicates he's all talk and no action, and then compare him to some evil guy that accomplished a lot makes absolutely no sense. Unless of course you are indirectly trying to claim that Obama will do what Hitler did.

Re: Bush. You are absolutely correct, he did give Republicans a bad name. But you know what, I give WAY MORE credit to Bill Clinton for that than anyone else. Why don't we talk about triangulation and how the Clintons, along with Dick Morris, started that mess where he could take a Republican issue and claim it as his own. They ended up screwing over and pissing off so many Democrats that they...WENT AND FOUND OBAMA lol. The Clintons also set the stage for Bush and Rove and my god, they took what Clinton and Morris did and honed the hell out of it.

Re: American stupidity. Yeah, generally we tend to think that just a party name changes everything. We also stupidly assume that all the bad things that occurred under one Administration is only the fault of that Administration. No one ever considers what the new President has inherited. I certainly don't fault Bush for everything, but he certainly made it worse. McCain, unfortunately, started siding with Bush on a lot of things because he knew he needed the conservative base they catered to (my god were they some smart folks, pandering to the religious right). Since McCain believes that the only way he can win is to do the same, destroys his creditibility. Seriously, I lost respect for the man but perhaps I was foolish to ever have any to begin with.

I feel really bad for the next President no matter who it may be. They are inheriting a really screwed up country and I highly doubt they will be able to fully turn it around in two terms, let alone one. Chances are high that the stupid American public will blame them for not being able to solve all of their problems.

ETA: I forgot to acknowledge the black vote thing. Bill Clinton got 83% of the black vote in 1992 and 84% in 1996. So I'm not sure why you bring this up, unless you believe Clinton really was the first black President. I think the reason why less than 10% more went to Obama could be based on a vareity of reasons: 1) black pride which everyone wants to assume anyway, 2) the fact that Bill Clinton offended many black voters that otherwise would have voted for Hillary, 3) because Obama, as a person, and his views, actually appealed to them as PEOPLE not black people, or 4) a combination of all of these things. Again, pointless to even bring it up.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:15:13 PM
Author: MoonWater

I feel really bad for the next President no matter who it may be. They are inheriting a really screwed up country and I highly doubt they will be able to fully turn it around in two terms, let alone one. Chances are high that the stupid American public will blame them for not being able to solve all of their problems.

More later...since I have to go to work, but I just want to say that I completely agree with you on this!
But it''s also why I don''t understand the Obama-love. I would think that Hillary would at least be better at getting the country on track.

And no...not trying to imply anythign with Obama and Hitler!

But I''ll be honest...I am a little worried about some of his ties. But ALL politicians have ties to questionable people, so I won''t base an opinion on that alone.

 

[LAJennifer]

Regarding the healthcare discussion going on, does anyone here live in Oregon, or know anything about the Oregon Health Plan? Here is an interesting article about a woman needing a cancer drug - her state run healthcare system denied her the drug, but offered her doctor-assisted suicide. When the drug company found out about it - they offered her the drug for free.

http://www.nrtoday.com/article/20080604/REGIONALNEWS/417612044/1063/NEWS&ParentProfile=1055