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Well, they chipped my 3.67 heart diamond.....

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Date: 4/19/2007 5:30:44 PM
Author: tweeanna

Date: 4/19/2007 2:48:36 PM
Author: Pricescope


Date: 4/19/2007 12:26:42 PM
Author: Pyramid
Remember Dave, the first photos posted were photoshopped onto the old ring, showing the old prong position, maybe there is some blurring from that process.


Edited: I see now the photo you are referring to is not the photoshopped one.
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Trish4444.jpg


No Pyramid the big photo was not touched here, and there is NOT enough information to conclude that the chip is different than on the profile photo. It''s the same imo.
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Is it just me or the original stone looks fatter and the stone that has the chip in it is thinner? Also, look at the original stone in the pink picture, the top edge of the table is further from the top of the V part of the heart and in the chipped stone picture, the top edge of the table is closer to the V part of the heart. When I first saw the above post, my first thought was that it doesn''t look like the same stone. Also the picture of the photoshoped post where the 2 pictures were overlapped, the 2 stones does not match exactly.
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the pic in the red has a lot of things going on that are giving illusion to what you describe... if you look at the chipped stone above and the original pic in the diamond dock unset, you''ll see they are the same shape :)
 
Date: 4/19/2007 5:30:44 PM
Author: tweeanna

Is it just me or the original stone looks fatter and the stone that has the chip in it is thinner? Also, look at the original stone in the pink picture, the top edge of the table is further from the top of the V part of the heart and in the chipped stone picture, the top edge of the table is closer to the V part of the heart. When I first saw the above post, my first thought was that it doesn''t look like the same stone. Also the picture of the photoshoped post where the 2 pictures were overlapped, the 2 stones does not match exactly.
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I am asking again, please everybody do not make those assumption, there are absolutely NO reasons for that.

Thank you.
 
Wow, lots of posts today...

Ok, first off, it was verified it is the same diamond.

All the photos are of the same diamond and same chip, the last picture which really shows a close up from the side I took through a loop so it was magnified better. It''s definatley the same chip just from different angles, it does look different but thank goodness only one.

The appraiser downgraded the diamond from an SI1 to and SI2...but said with repolishing it could possibly go back to an SI1 again. Well, this might be easier, here''s the info she got from the report. She was very thourough. The only real discrepancy I found was the culet on my GIA report shows small, and she has slightly large. Maybe the jeweler chipped that too?

Here''s some info right from the report

SHAPE AND CUT: HEART BRILLIANT
MEASUREMENTS: 10.63 x 10.16 x 5.93 mm
Weight: 3.67 ct. actual, confirmed by formula
PROPORTIONS: Class 2B, International Fine Trade Cut
Depth: 58.4 %
Table: Medium
Girdle: Medium to Very Thick
Length-to-Width: 1.05:1.00, preferred
Culet: Slightly Large
FINISH:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
CLARITY GRADE: SI2
COLOR GRADE: E
FLUORESCENCE: None
COMMENTS: There is a chip on the stone on the girdle which extends to the junction of a bezel facet and two
upper girdle facets.

The diamond matches the stone described in the GIA Certificate with one difference: the diamond is now chipped.
The chip is located on the girdle at the juncture of two, upper girdle facets and a bezel facet at the 4:00 position of
the stone. On the GIA plot of this diamond, a feather and crystal (which do not reach the surface) are located
directly beneath the chip. On the basis of this chip, I have graded the diamond SI2 in clarity.
Repolishing may remove the damaged area and return the stone to its original SI1 grade; it must be noted that
repolishing poses risks to the diamond.

***** Now how does this sound? Does it sound like an easy fix or not? The chip is pretty small, I can barely see it straight on, its definatly a chip, not a natural it wasn''t on the GIA report although a cluster of inclusions were there. It''s a little sharp if I touch it with my nail.

I didn''t make it back to the jeweler today, I''ve lost my voice and I barely squeaked out words at the appraiser, I sent the jewerly store an email and told them I''d be there tomorrow. It would be hard to state my case without a voice, ......
 
Hello,

I''ll be heading to the jewlelry store in a little bit. I lost my voice and it''s not back to normal yet, so I decided to write a time line of events so that I don''t have to talk so much....

I''ll let you know how it goes....

Trishy
 
Hi Trishy....I've been thinking of you...and will continue to! My fingers and toes are crossed that it all goes smoothly..

Have you seen the appraiser?


BE TOUGH!!!!!!!


widget


ETA: LOL...I obviously missed your last post...and I thought I'd been following this thread so closely!
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(fingers and toes still crossed...)
 
Good liuck.....

At least we know or can reasonably assume it is a chip and not a negative cavity or natural.

Here''s hoping that the jeweler will make it right, or at least split the cost.

Rockdoc
 
Date: 4/20/2007 12:24:10 PM
Author: RockDoc
Good liuck.....

At least we know or can reasonably assume it is a chip and not a negative cavity or natural.

Here's hoping that the jeweler will make it right, or at least split the cost.

Rockdoc
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I may be missing something, but I don't see where Trishy should have to pay ANYTHING regarding this fiasco. She has already had to pay for an appraiser to assess the damage THEY did.


widget
 
Good luck at the jewelry store today Trishy!!! Like Widget said, BE TOUGH!!!!
 
Date: 4/20/2007 12:21:54 PM
Author: widget
Hi Trishy....I''ve been thinking of you...and will continue to! My fingers and toes are crossed that it all goes smoothly..

Have you seen the appraiser?


BE TOUGH!!!!!!!


widget


ETA: LOL...I obviously missed your last post...and I thought I''d been following this thread so closely!
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(fingers and toes still crossed...)
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Wdget.....

Gotta disagree with you on being tough.

There''s that old adage that says : "You get more with honey - than you do with vinegar".


I would suggest that trishy be factual, but courteous, and willing to be cooperative and understanding. It isn''t like this happened with deliberate intent.

A lot of times if you start out offensively, the other side won''t be as easy to deal with. If of course you start out "gently" and you get an argument, probably best response to that would be " If you want to play hardball - we can both do that."

I''d suggest not being TOUGH .... but BE FIRM !

Rockdoc
 
I think of being tough AS being firm....not in a bad way, in a ''stand up for yourself'' way.

Being accusatory and angry might not get you far, but I think there''s middle ground between that and being a doormat.
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That''s where tough/firm lives.
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Author: RockDoc

Wdget.....

Gotta disagree with you on being tough.

There''s that old adage that says : ''You get more with honey - than you do with vinegar''.
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LOL...I certainly didn''t mean be pushy or rude! (I think I''m projecting my own innate wimpiness on Trishy....in situations like this I tend to fold like an umbrella...)


widget
 
i''m sorry about the chip. sending good vibes that all is going well at the jewelers.
 
I hope it went okay Trishy...
 
HI:

This is a sad event Trishy--no words other than I am so sorry for you.
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Sharon
 
Ok....where do I start....

I went into the store, and it was sad, all the employees wouldn''t look at me, and then one said....I''ll let him know you''re here....

When the owner comes out he says in the slimey jewlerish voice (sorry other jewlers here) but he said......Hellllllloooooo Darrrrrrling.... Ugh..

I just half smiled and said hi....he said....Ok, let''s start with the GIA report. I said, don''t you want to see my appraisal first. He said, no I don''t care about the appraisal, it was a waste of your money. I was going to give him a copy of the copied GIA report, but he snatched the original from my folder. He said, hmmmm...see here, and pointed at the cluster of inclusions....and I said, yes I know there are inclusions there, but there wasn''t a chip....he interupted me, and started trying to talk with me like I don''t know how to read a GIA report or know anything about diamonds.... Wrong. He kept flopping back and forth whether it was a chip, or just an inclusion. I told him I know how to read the darn report and if it was a surface inclusion (like this chip or an indented natural) it would have been in green (and read him the fine print)...and the showed him what the appraiser wrote and how she downgraded it to a SI2, he then started saying that the report was garbage and the only thing that matter was the GIA report. I said, the new appraisal does matter because it shows how the stone HAS changed since the first report. He said she knew nothing and that independant appraisers don''t buy and sell diamonds and truly know about stones and GIA reports. I told him, they are unbiased that''s why I went the them, but he was acting like the fact that they don''t buy and sell diamonds like he does they are not as credible as he is. I said you both are Gemolgists, the fact is they have not intrest in this....but he kept saying....let''s just look at the GIA report only and wouldn''t even touch the appraisal to look at it.

I got really mad at this point and ripped my ring off his pinky and snatched the report from his hand and said....I didn''t come here for your money... I came here soley for you to understand the importantance of DISCLOSURE...

Ok, I''ll have to continue the story when I get back from dinner....
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Ugh. That doesn't sound like a good start. And sadly not unlike what I was expecting....

Have a good dinner!!
 
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Trishy, this is so unfortunate. I do hope you are able to get it resolved soon.

But this brings up another question. Don''t jewelers have liability insurance? Why is this a big deal for the jeweler? Can''t he pay to have the chip repolished and submit it to his insurance? Maybe I''m being naive here, but my jeweler always wrote on the ticket how much the ring/diamond was worth so if anything happened to it there was a stated value. Not just the shape, carat weight and clarity, but an actual value. I always assumed it was for insurance purposes. Is this something some jewlers do but not all?

Whatever the outcome, I''m sure you won''t be dealing with this jeweler again.
 
On a fancy, the chances of a natural chip being in the right place to cover it is a long shot. Flaws are often covered with prongs, but its much easier on a round where you can rotate the stone. That isn''t the case with a fancy.

It could be that the prong was bumped during prior wear and the chip occurred. It seems small enough that the jeweler wouldn''t have noticed it under the prong, hence the non-ploting of it.

It doesn''t appear to be a big weight loser, and quite possibly could be repaired with a few points of weight loss.

I think it would be hard to lay blame here.

Here''s yet another lesson to have your jewelry insured.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter
 
Date: 4/20/2007 9:35:46 PM
Author: He Scores


It could be that the prong was bumped during prior wear and the chip occurred. It seems small enough that the jeweler wouldn''t have noticed it under the prong, hence the non-ploting of it.
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Bill....you probably didn''t see Trishy''s earlier thread : https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-terrible-job-setting-heart-stone-in-verragio-very-frustrated.60770/

I don''t think this ring had any prior wear. The chip very likely happened when the jeweler tried to fix his botched up mounting job....


Trishy....I''M SO SORRY ABOUT THIS!!!!!
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Trishy,

So sorry to hear this. I am hoping you are able to get the appropriate solution. I am just floored that they would try to sneak one over on you . . . makes me crazy. Good luck and do keep us posted.
 
Ok back to the story....

I explained to the jewler that I didn''t care about the little loss in weight and that since the area was so vunerable under that prong it could have happened to the best of the best jewlers, I told him that seeing the fact according to them, they opened up a prong and found a chip....I NEEDED to know, regardless how, when or why....I needed to know that. Then the owner started telling me didn''t I think it was coincidental that the prior prong setting fit exactly over where the chip was... I told him, actually I don''t. I stated that I bought the stone loose and had it set in a temporary setting. This was all done in like two days. The prior jeweler didn''t have a ton of time to "plot out" or create a custom setting as to where to put the prong and honestly there just really aren''t many places to put a prong on a heart setting this isn''t like a round. It just worked out... The new setting just has the prongs a wee bit different than the first.

I felt we were going in circles so I explained to him.... I wasn''t even going to come into the store and was going let it go since it was such a minimal thing, and I didn''t come in there demading a penny from them... I just wanted to know why any jeweler would find something like that under the prong and never notify the customer, even after I was so worried about something happening to the stone since the setter did such a bad job initially. He then stated the only reason he didn''t tell me, was because it shouldn''t have been a surprise to me since I had a GIA report already showing it was there... This is when I said, the INCLUSION was there, NOT the chip, and he disagreed and said again nothing had changed since the gia report or from the time he got the diamond so he was not at fault for not disclosing anything.

At this point I just sighed and told him I was going to send it back to the jeweler I bought if from next week and I hope to get it repolished and the clarity back at SI1. This is when he went again on the rampage about how there is no way this stone is an SI2 and the appraiser doesn''t know what she''s talking about. He again said, he believes the stone is in the same exact condition as it was on the GIA report. I told him I am not an expert in this area, but the appraiser made it clear that this chip was on the surface and not within the stone, and again the GIA would not have called this surface mark a crystal or a feather, it would have been a chip or an indented natural.

I''d really had enough of all this, so I politely gathered up my reports and he said, I''m not mad at you for thinking all of this, I think the appraiser that did your report should be to blame???? Huh. he said she made things worse by calling this stone and SI2 and getting us more upset. He REALLY REALLY believe the chip is noted on the GIA report. He then went so far and said he for me to mail the stone to the GIA and if the report came back different, he would pay the cost of the report and the polishing.

I then told him, that is the EXACT answer I was wanting. Now he said he felt very confident that the stone hadn''t been damaged by anyone at all. I said, ok...lets end it there...

Then he said he wanted it sent to the GIA and not EGL or someone. I told him I would only send to GIA and that I would like to be a gemoligist someday and planned on taking the course. He then said that if I ever need to use some diamonds and his microscopes he would let me come in at any time. He laughed and said that the next morning when he got my email with my magnified photos of the diamond and the chip, he was amazed and said...how did she get such pictures of the stone so detailed and so quickly. Then he said it made sense now because of my diamond knowlege.

So I shook his hand and said, ok....I''m going to send this to the GIA and honestly, I hope nothing has changed on the diamond and he''s right....if not, it really doesn''t matter...I''m going to get it polished out anyway and wear it happily ever after. If it did change, and like others have said, well never know how, or when it happened.....HE will learn the difference between a surface flaw and an internal flaw on a GIA report, and notify the next customer when something like this pops up again... And then there is a happy end to this story...

He said to me, have a nice rest of the day and enjoy the sun....and I said I would since I had just gotten a new convertible the other day and had this diamond mess hadn''t happened I would have had my mind clear and enjoyed it sooner. He saw my keychain and asked to see the car, so he brought a sales woman out with us and showed her the car also.

I told him I would be in contact with him once the report was in....

We''ll see how this all transpires...

I''ve got a few more questions I''ll post next...


 
Date: 4/20/2007 11:02:56 PM
Author: trishy44
He then went so far and said he for me to mail the stone to the GIA and if the report came back different, he would pay the cost of the report and the polishing.
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PLEASE get this part in WRITING . . .
 
He sounds like a real creep.
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You''re MUCH nicer than I am!


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I''m not liking this one bit. Ughhh
 
Trishy.....

GIA does do damage reports. You might want to call them to find out the costs. Getting a "regular grading report may not address the issue.

However, looking at the big picture here, I honestly believe given from what I''ve read, that the repair cost will be a fraction of what it would cost in an attempt to put the blame on this jeweler.

I''d suggest that you find out how much a diamond cutter would charge to repair the stone. I don''t believe it would cost that much. Maybe write Bill Bray an email and ask him, or perhaps he''ll provide a little guidance to what this would cost to repair.

A few years ago I had a client that had a similar problem, and I contacted GIA about having a damage report done. The cost was very high, plus if it went to court and they had to testify they wanted $ 1500 per day.

If in the end of your meeting the jeweler offered to pay to have GIA, examine the stone again, that appears on the surface to be reasonable. However, that isn''t going to fix the stone, which is the CURE here.

GIA may in a damage report be able to say what caused the problem, but they may not be able to establish that as well. If they can''t the costs for this could be applied to getting it fixed.

If the jeweler you referred to had done the first setting of it, it would be more conclusive, but it is going to be very difficult to establish PROOF, of who is liable. And PROOF as to the cause, is what you''re going to need to build a good case.

You''re being very reasonable about the effect of lost weight, and loss of value, if it is minor, and that is very commendable and reasonable, as most people wouldn''t be.

I am going to assume that your time is valuable, and if the repair won''t cost that much, it makes sense to just get it fixed.

However, before playing "hardball" Adamas Gem ( Marty Haske ), Dave Atlas ( old miner), and myself are all certified mediators, and we could possibly make this more painless through mediation, if you and the jeweler agree to it. However, I hope you and the jeweler can work out something between youselves that will satisfy each of you.

I''m not trying to make light of the problem, or not feeling what you must be feeling, just trying to make it as "painless" as possible.


Hope this helps.

Rockdoc
 
RockDoc, you know what..you''re right....I''m way past prooving "who" caused this blemish, I just want to wear my ring :) My husband and I talked about the delay time in all of this, I really don''t want to send things here and there. BUT if there was some way I could just prove to the jeweler the stone HAS changed...I would get the most satisfaction with that.

I went to the GIA site and looked up my report, then sent an email to them asking a general question. I kept it pretty vague, but I really would just love to show the jeweler something from the GIA proving him wrong (if he is). That''s where I''m at on this. The GIA probably may not want to answer my question without seeing the stone....but this is what I wrote, lI kept it very general........ets see what they say...

Here was the text of my email.

I have a question about my gia report number 15082661 for my 3.67 heart shaped diamond.

I just recently had this stone reset and when the prong was removed the inclusion that is on the report is now more visible (it is the one that is at 4:00 on the right side of the stone in the shape of a triangle).


My question is, the inclusion is on the surface of the stone and I can feel it with my fingernail. On the GIA report this inclusion is denoted in red which in the key states is an internal characteristic. It is my understanding that if this inclusion was a blemish, or external characteristic it would have been denoted in Green or Black.


Can you please clarify the grading of this inclusion for me. I have included a 10x magnification photo of the inclusion.


Thank you very much,

They probably won''t respond, but I thought I''d give it a try. I''m sending my stone back to GOG for repair since that is where I purchased the stone. I''ll be sending it next week.

Hmmm. "hardball", how does mediation work???

Trishy
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Is there a way to edit a post , I wanted to remove the jewelers name from the beginning of this post because since they are adamant they didn''t do it and I can''t prove it was them, I don''t want them coming after me for slander or something....

Lastly, just curious.....

what does everyone else here think this is? A chip, or the same as reported on the GIA stone..

and...if you think it''s a chip, would you agree it looks like it''s now an SI2. I can see it with my naked eye if I turn the stone on an angle...

Just curious for myself on this....since I many never know what the GIA says.

Also, the jeweler said there would be a loss of weight if this was a chip. it''s pretty tiny, do you think there would be a loss of weight? (that alone would prove it weighed less then the GIA report)
 
To be honest Trishy, after reading your posts last night, I was wondering why you went back to the jeweler at all since it seems like you left without anything except a chipped stone. But after reading your post today, I suppose at some point, continued fighting over this may mar your feelings about your ring and so, I give you kudos for moving on, so to speak. I''d probably get an attorney and fight it out with this jeweler because he sounds very shady from what you''ve told us. OTOH, I think asking GIA for clarification, and also asking GOG what they recommend is a sensible way to proceed. If you love this particular stone, why not try to fix it while also trying to ascertain if the chip was there in the first place or not. And lastly, depending on how this all plays out, at the very least, if it was not there in the first place, I''d call the BBB and lodge a complaint.
 
Oh, Trishy--I'm so sorry this has happened to you, and I hope you get it all straightened out soon. I've been following this thread as a lurker, as I didn't have much to contribute, but I just wanted to express my sympathies. It really is a beautiful diamond, and I hate what this jeweler has put you through in obtaining your perfect ring.

I hope it all works out soon!
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