Well, they chipped my 3.67 heart diamond.....

[rjdodd]

Date: 4/18/2007 11:14:32 AM
Author: trishy44
The jewler is telling me the same thing, that it was in the place of the old prong. Doesn''t that still mean he chipped the stone when they removed it from the setting?

They want me to bring in my gia report, the independant appraiser can''t get me until tomorrow...

What now?

It could mean that it may have been chipped by the setter who put it in the old setting - and that they didn''t tell you at the time.

 

[RockDoc]

Is the old set of prongs, still in your possession?

There COULD be a clue on the old set of prongs, that might lead to rendering a CAUSE.

How is the girdle thickness or the crown angle at that junction of the stone?

Rockdoc

 

[Daisyheart]

I sent the copy of the gia report to the form person also, maybe they will post that... The stone had a crystal and a feather in that exact location and it might have been under the prong of the old ring, but it was not chipped. I examined my stone regulary.


I just talked with the salesman he said it''s not a chip (from the photos) it''s a feather, I told him it wasn''t and he kept saying bring the stone it. I have an appoitment at 10:30 tomorrow with that appraiser above and I told them I would bring the stone tomorrow after the appraisal. They said how would I know what was under the prong???? I told them it did have a feather and a crystal on the GIA report, but no chip.

Now, here''s how things transpired...they took the ring from me...

the next day I went to pick up the ring and almost paid for it and left but I looped it (I brought my own) and I saw the messed up prongs and metal shards and asked them to fix it...I did not see the chip and the prong at that time had been moved up to it''s current location. They actually wrote me an appraisal for the stone right then and did not note the chip (even though the prong area had been moved)

The salesman took it back to the jewler guy who said he couldn''t fix the prongs by polishing underneath it while the diamond was on it because it might "chip it" their words. I said, I don''t want it polished with the head, on....I asked them to order a new head from verragio and redo it...(it was bad). They told me that they could probably take the diamond out and fix it and reset it...

So they said it would be ready the next day.

Not ready..

Then I call they say the jewler is out on Monday, they said he''d reset it on Tuesday. I got nervous and told the salesman I think I should just take my stone and leave because since the jeweler did such a lousy job, I didn''t want him to wreck my stone (I was actually worried about the point). They assured mehe was the best, told me stories about how there was a 99.9 percent chance it would likely not be chipped, don''t worry...yada yada...

The salesman was out on Tues, so the owner gave me the ring. He gave me my tennis bracelet first (it was being repaird), and then went on and on about my pink diamond ring and even loouped it, an called the jeweler guy to look at it.... then talked about my earrings... Then gave me the ring, it looked great, he never louped it, never mentiioned the chip. I commented how sparkily it looked and he said you have a a beautiful stone. No one mentioned the chip, ever...at this point it had been looked at by every darn person in the store, but it was not mentioned. I was the only one without the loop that day...

Then I got home and looped it and saw the chip....so here we are..

What should I expect to happen, and what should my expectations be of my recorse? What is my case if they completely say they didn''t do it and it was under the prong? They wrote me an appraisal AFTER the prong had been moved up a bit...

Any advise is helpful. As it stands now, tomrrow at 12:00 after my appraisal appointment I''m bringing the diamond back it... Does anyone want to go with me for moral support????

 

[Daisyheart]

I looped the stone the day I dropped it off and plotted it with the microscope....

The second time I went to pick it up, I looped it again that''s when I saw the funky shaped prongs...

The only time I didn''t loop it was when I picked it up (really the most important time). I could see the prongs were smaller and polished and trusted since the owner was giving it to me, he told me he inspected it and it was perfect this time...stupid me to trust.

No the prongs were in the same spot as it was 4 days ago, AND they took a magnified photo of the ring for the appraisal they gave me the first time they gave me the stone. I only have a copy so can''t telll much, but I don''t see it there.... but it was never mentioned there was a chip under the prior prong. Was it their responsiblity to tell me that if that was the case? I honeslly think they just hit the weak point of the diamond there and it chipped, it''s right were the feather, crystal was.... I never could find the inclusions with my loop when it was set, probably because it was under the prong. I wonder if I get it repolished if it could make it a vs2?

Yes, I have the old setting from the ring.

I''ve sent the gia report to the form admins maybe they''ll post it...

 

[surfgirl]

So sorry to hear about this trish. As someone in another thread mentioned, make sure you make copies of all the paperwork, including GIA reports and the plotting report they did for you in store, and lock the original paperwork up somewhere very safe. You dont want to give them access to any original paperwork that they could alter at this point.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 4/18/2007 12:42:16 PM
Author: trishy44

The only time I didn''t loop it was when I picked it up (really the most important time). I could see the prongs were smaller and polished and trusted since the owner was giving it to me, he told me he inspected it and it was perfect this time...stupid me to trust.

No the prongs were in the same spot as it was 4 days ago, AND they took a magnified photo of the ring for the appraisal they gave me the first time they gave me the stone.

Isn''t it ironic how it seems in life the one time we don''t do something is the time it ends up being an issue? LOL Anyway - knowing that the prongs have not moved in the last few days can eliminate any wrongdoing by the original setter of the stone, so that''s a good thing... now it is just a matter of getting this local guy to do the right thing by you and I really hope it goes smoothly!!!

 

[pyramid]

Date: 4/18/2007 12:04:10 PM
Author: rjdodd

Date: 4/18/2007 11:14:32 AM
Author: trishy44
The jewler is telling me the same thing, that it was in the place of the old prong. Doesn't that still mean he chipped the stone when they removed it from the setting?

They want me to bring in my gia report, the independant appraiser can't get me until tomorrow...

What now?

It could mean that it may have been chipped by the setter who put it in the old setting - and that they didn't tell you at the time.

Maybe the pressure of the prong when it was put in the old setting caused the feather/crystal to get worse, maybe being under the prong the setter did not know.

 

[pricescope]

Part of GAI report Trish had sent.

 

[Skippy123]

Oh, it looks like the pressure from the prong made it split maybe??? Gosh, I am so sorry that is awful.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 4/18/2007 1:54:52 PM
Author: Pricescope
Part of GAI report Trish had sent.

I sort of hesitate to comment as I can''t see the diamond. So my GUESS of what COULD have happened could be different once a credible person actually examines the stone.

The area where your chip is on the gem plot shows a crystal. A crystal is "another diamond" that formed separately from the bigger stone. It COULD be that the crystal "popped" out leaving a negative crystal where the little crystal was in the stone.

It may or may not be possible to tell if my GUESS here is factual. If it was a crystal close to the surface and it came out, it isn''t the fault of the jeweler. The appraiser is going to have to examine that area with really high magnification to see if there is any evidence of breaking or what you''re seeing is actually the "negative crystal remains". The indications appear that it could be a pre-existing condition. It is possible the appraiser can pinpoint the cause, depends on if there is any evidence from which to make a reliable and accurate conclusion. GIA does do damage reports, and since they saw it before hand, considering them to make the evaluation might be a prudent decision.

This could be polished out most likely. I guess the next step is to have a cutter look at it to "repair" it and estimate the weight loss and costs .

Sorry this happened.

Rockdoc

 

[pricescope]

another picture

 

[pricescope]

Chip form profile photo

 

[oldminer]

Whatever caused the "chip" is not so important as the fact that it can be fixed with very little weight loss. It is a minor problem in the overall scheme of things. I hope they someone will address the problem to your satisfaction. It is way better than many damage claims. Minor and very fixable.

 

[Daisyheart]

I''m so glad to hear from experts that''s it''s fixable. That''s really all, I care about. I don''t care about a little carat loss. I thought the whole diamond would have to be recut and reshaped, or I''d be stuck with a flaw. I hope it can be simply fixed. I don''t want to argue with these people but what type of jeweler would remove a diamond from a setting and NOT notify me immediatley about the chip, in fact it was looped by every single jewler in there, and not one mention. Also, I gave them the gia report when I dropped off the ring so they knew I wasn''t expecting a chip. What do they expect me to think?

You really should have seen the work the jeweler did when it was first given to me, it looked like it had fallen in the garbage disposal with the way the prongs were made, this guy is sloppy and careless and I really wouldn''t be surprised if it was them.

The disclosure factor is where I''m at now. If it can be simply fixed, that''s all that matters in the end.... Hopefully the appraiser tomorrow can shed more light on this. If the jeweler askks to repolish it, I WILL REFUSE. I will let them view the stone, but they are never touching it again.

I will be curious to see what they say tomorrow.....

 

[surfgirl]

I dont think you should go back to that place alone again. You need to have people with you "just in case". These people dont seem to be trusted. Can you FI go with you at the very least?

 

[Skippy123]

Tishy,
please get insured when it is all said and done; I don't mean to tell you what to do but, I got my ring insured and 6 years later lost it and was so glad I actually insured. My husband didn't want to insure it but thank god we did!!! In fact during those 6 years there were times that I thought maybe I would let the policy lapse but again thank goodness we didn't.
Hang in there; we are sending you good vibes.

 

[widget]

I''ll be thinking of you tomorrow, Trishy. I''m with surfgirl....I''d take my hubby or mean friend along if it were me. (I''m not good with confrontations..

)

Here''s a question for the experts...maybe looking for the silver lining...but is it possible that by polishing out the chip (and crystal inclusion), the diamond''s clarity grade might go up a notch? Probably not worth the expense of having it regraded, but it might be nice thinking something good came out of this mess!

widget

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 4/18/2007 9:28:29 PM
Author: widget
I''ll be thinking of you tomorrow, Trishy. I''m with surfgirl....I''d take my hubby or mean friend along if it were me. (I''m not good with confrontations..

)

Here''s a question for the experts...maybe looking for the silver lining...but is it possible that by polishing out the chip (and crystal inclusion), the diamond''s clarity grade might go up a notch? Probably not worth the expense of having it regraded, but it might be nice thinking something good came out of this mess!

widget

Hi Widget....

In some stones recutting can result in an improvement in the What''s clarity grade but I think in this particular stone the significant other inclusions would keep it at the same clarity grade level.

The silver lining on this heart shape is that it could be repaired instead of being replaced, since it wasn''t insured. The side view which was posted later helps a lot.

Rockdoc

 

[Daisyheart]

So in a nutshell, help me with my case.

I have pictures before the stone was set, and pictures of it set, and 1 photo after the prongs were moved upward the first time and although the last one is a further picture, there is no reason to believe there was a chip under the prong.

I totally understand how it could happen no arguement here on that, just that tomorrow I know they are going to say "it was there". Although they never told me, even after they were the ones to supposedly unearth it when they changed the setting.

Any help from you guys of how I should present my case? I''m goingo the appraiser in the morning then them later in the day. I''ll definatley ask if possible if it was a crystal that popped.

Main thing, if they did do it with their careless ness, I think they should have to reimburse me for the repolishing at a minimum.

Help me prep for my case tomorrow...

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 4/18/2007 10:26:28 PM
Author: trishy44
So in a nutshell, help me with my case.

I have pictures before the stone was set, and pictures of it set, and 1 photo after the prongs were moved upward the first time and although the last one is a further picture, there is no reason to believe there was a chip under the prong.

I totally understand how it could happen no arguement here on that, just that tomorrow I know they are going to say ''it was there''. Although they never told me, even after they were the ones to supposedly unearth it when they changed the setting.

Any help from you guys of how I should present my case? I''m goingo the appraiser in the morning then them later in the day. I''ll definatley ask if possible if it was a crystal that popped.

Main thing, if they did do it with their careless ness, I think they should have to reimburse me for the repolishing at a minimum.

Help me prep for my case tomorrow...

Trishy

I think you have to do this in logical steps.

First it has to be established WHAT the "mark" factually is. If it is a chip, the jeweler would be a good guy if he offered to pay for the polishing of the stone. He probably would want to use a cutter that would charge him the price to the trade, rather than sending it of to a cutter who would charge significantly more than that price.

The jeweler most likely doesn''t cut or polish diamonds. That takes an experience diamond cutter. Bill Bray ( he scores ) who writes on this forum, is reputed to be very good at repairing, and he may give your jeweler the courtesy of a trade price. I am making a GUESS that the repolishing would cost around $ 100.00 plus shipping expenses.

Secondly the cost of the repair needs to be estimated, and the selection of who will please both you and the jeweler.

In the most simple approach to the resolution of this, the repair probably will not cost all that much, so attempting to establish who''s liable, may not be clear cut. If the appraiser tells you she/he can''t establish the cause, then see if the jeweler will split the repair cost evenly. Accepting 1/2 the cost, will certainly be a reasonable and probably not too costly a resolution which is fair to both parties, and unless an opinion that points to the jeweler''s clear cut liability, is probably the best stress free, non aggravating approach that in the end keeps every one not feeling taken advantage of. If the jeweler values your future business, he would probably agree to this without much to do about it once you both know the costs.

Does this suggestion sound like reasonable plan?

Rockdoc

 

[oldminer]

RockDoc,

I thought the "side view" you mentioned was the chip in this diamond, but after looking at the original photos this side view is not the chip that needs fixing. The chip is through the girdle from crown into pavilion in the first photos. The other photo from the side looks like either a very minor nick or a natural, but not real damage. I think these are two fdifferent marks or even different diamonds. The side view shows a VERY minor blemish that could be fixed with no weight loss, less than 0.01ct. The larger one will have some shape and weight loss issues, but not major ones.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 4/19/2007 11:03:41 AM
Author: oldminer
RockDoc,

I thought the ''side view'' you mentioned was the chip in this diamond, but after looking at the original photos this side view is not the chip that needs fixing. The chip is through the girdle from crown into pavilion in the first photos. The other photo from the side looks like either a very minor nick or a natural, but not real damage. I think these are two fdifferent marks or even different diamonds. The side view shows a VERY minor blemish that could be fixed with no weight loss, less than 0.01ct. The larger one will have some shape and weight loss issues, but not major ones.

.
Dave, i don''t see why. From the first photos we can see only top view and there is nothing imho to tell us that the chip is going down the girdle all the way.

 

[denverappraiser]

There''s an appointment with a pro who has the opportunity to actually inspect the diamond today. I think it would be sensible to suspend speculation at this point and let her do her work. Guessing is not helping at this point.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[oldminer]

Here is an enlargement of what I saw in the first photo. Looks as if it goes all the way from crown through pavilion to me. Meanwhile, the side view seems as if it was a different stone or a different blemish. Sorry if I am incorrect.

 

[oldminer]

photo problem. Trying a second time.

 

[pyramid]

Remember Dave, the first photos posted were photoshopped onto the old ring, showing the old prong position, maybe there is some blurring from that process.


Edited: I see now the photo you are referring to is not the photoshopped one.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 4/19/2007 12:26:42 PM
Author: Pyramid
Remember Dave, the first photos posted were photoshopped onto the old ring, showing the old prong position, maybe there is some blurring from that process.


Edited: I see now the photo you are referring to is not the photoshopped one.

No Pyramid the big photo was not touched here, and there is NOT enough information to conclude that the chip is different than on the profile photo. It''s the same imo.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 4/19/2007 2:48:36 PM
Author: Pricescope

No Pyramid the big photo was not touched here, and there is NOT enough information to conclude that the chip is different than on the profile photo. It''s the same imo.

ita with PS, it even looks like there is a dark area that could be the other side of the girdle. There looks on the plot to be a bit of activity (inclusions) originally in that area which is probably why the original prong was put there to begin with. Removing it from the original setting did no damage since she saw it after it was poorly set the first time, but when they were cleaning things up I have to wonder if they actually removed the stone or attempted to polish away shmutz with the diamond set and WHOOOPS!

 

[tweeanna]

Date: 4/19/2007 2:48:36 PM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 4/19/2007 12:26:42 PM
Author: Pyramid
Remember Dave, the first photos posted were photoshopped onto the old ring, showing the old prong position, maybe there is some blurring from that process.


Edited: I see now the photo you are referring to is not the photoshopped one.

No Pyramid the big photo was not touched here, and there is NOT enough information to conclude that the chip is different than on the profile photo. It''s the same imo.

Is it just me or the original stone looks fatter and the stone that has the chip in it is thinner? Also, look at the original stone in the pink picture, the top edge of the table is further from the top of the V part of the heart and in the chipped stone picture, the top edge of the table is closer to the V part of the heart. When I first saw the above post, my first thought was that it doesn''t look like the same stone. Also the picture of the photoshoped post where the 2 pictures were overlapped, the 2 stones does not match exactly.

 

[oldminer]

Let us all iknow what the inspection of the diamond shows the chip to be. Having a physical examination is a lot safer than the speculation......although guessing is more entertaining!