Weight

[Jambalaya]

Callie - whoa! Man, that is intense. Had another women for years and she was pregnant? That really is something else.

The husband who walked out before Christmas is definitely shady. There were signs a long time ago that something was up - i.e. coming home from a really long full day out-of-town business trip and immediately laundering the clothes he was wearing, even though it was midnight. I'd believe anything of him. But what about the one who has been steady and consistent about the weight issue for many years and says he can take it no longer? He could be lying too, of course, but he has maintained his stance on the weight for so long, and if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc and yes, my friend is very overweight, so it all fits together in a consistent manner. Maybe, for some, it really is all about the weight?

 

[Jambalaya]

On reflection, Calliecake, perhaps you're right. Maybe the weight thing is always a smokescreen. Maybe the guy who insists it's weight just doesn't want to be married anymore. He may not have cheated (she thinks) but there's still that sense of entitlement that I find hard to stomach and that I think has probably ruined these marriages: "I will have sex with slim attractive women if at all possible and I don't care how many hearts I have to stomp on to get it."

I wonder if men who dump good loyal wives end up regretting it.

 

[sonnyjane]

Callie - whoa! Man, that is intense. Had another women for years and she was pregnant? That really is something else.

The husband who walked out before Christmas is definitely shady. There were signs a long time ago that something was up - i.e. coming home from a really long full day out-of-town business trip and immediately laundering the clothes he was wearing, even though it was midnight. I'd believe anything of him. But what about the one who has been steady and consistent about the weight issue for many years and says he can take it no longer? He could be lying too, of course, but he has maintained his stance on the weight for so long, and if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc and yes, my friend is very overweight, so it all fits together in a consistent manner. Maybe, for some, it really is all about the weight?

Hypothetical - if you had a female friend whose husband didn't smoke when they met or married, but suddenly took up smoking not only occasionally, but a pack a day, would you think less of your female friend is she said she was no longer attracted to him? If she for years mentioned that she hated the smell of smoke, found it unhealthy, and wasn't attracted to his smokey breath, yellow teeth, etc., and for YEARS this man made no attempt to quit, would you hold your friend in the same ill-regard if she decided that her feelings for him had changed? His underlying personality might be the same, but he's now changed his lifestyle in a way that's not attractive or healthy to her, and has ignored any of his wife's feelings on the subject. Just trying to get you to see it from the other side.

 

[Jambalaya]

I wouldn't blame her for not being as attracted to him, but I would be pretty shocked if she walked out on him and their children with no warning and then didn't contact him for months, or if she joined dating websites and had affairs.

I'd respect her if she had a very, VERY serious conversation with him and put him on notice that this was going to be a deal-breaker for her. I think I'd still be surprised if she actually divorced him over it because his personality traits and character are the same - all the things she loved about those would still be there.

I guess I, personally, don't see weight gain or smoking as grounds for divorce but of course those things can be extreme and then, yes, maybe. Someone who weighs 300 lbs or smokes 50 a day? Yeah. But someone who weighs under 200lb and smokes ten a day, the divorce thing is a little harder to understand. I know that my friends are really quite overweight but they are still them, with all the things that make them special.

But no, I don't think that someone should be miserable for the rest of their lives if they aren't happy in their marriage. Divorce happens. But there are ways of doing things. Why not sit your spouse down and gently broach the topic? Why not keep discussing it between you? Why not decide, together, if he will move out, and when, and where? I know you agree with this part - you said above you don't agree with their method. I'm being rhetorical.

Just seems a pity that such good people had to get so hurt because of their weight (if it is weight). The shock that my friends suffered was severe. And then to be blamed for it, too!

ETA: I guess that, on balance, even if the real issue is only weight, a person shouldn't be forced to stay with someone they find unattractive. I'm just so shocked at the cruelty with which these men acted.

 

[LLJsmom]

Thanks to everyone.
And both those friends are at home taking care of their two kids each, while the men are chiseling themselves in the gym and meeting new women!!! Since all this happened, it's come out with other friends about issues in their marriages due to weight, although they're still together and over it, sort of.

Jambalaya, what you said here really struck a chord. The women are at home taking care of the kids. The husbands are working out at the gym. My gut reaction is that this scenario is all wrong. Why aren't they at the gym, getting a good workout, sweating, getting the happy endorphins while their husbands are at home taking care of the kids, doing the laundry, getting dinner ready, so that when they come back, they'll just eat, and maybe wash dishes??

These women are too giving and self-less. Am I going to get skewered by saying this? I am in no way saying that they are at fault for their husbands deplorable attitudes. But these poor women. And I am asking when I say this. Are they stuck at home? 24/7 serving their children and families? Putting everyone else's needs before their own? If they are, I think they would be well served to start making some of their needs a priority, be it working out, spending time with friends, indulging a hobby. Giving, giving, giving is mentally, emotionally and physically exhausting. Are they so burnt out, stressed out that they cannot think about their relationship? If their partner(husband) needs a wake up call, then these women need to be able to confront them. "Hey a-hole, I spend all day working, taking care of the kids, doing everything in this freaking house to make it a home for everyone. You need to watch these kids. I'm going to the gym. See you in 2 hours. Don't forget to feed them." and head for the door. I hope they are taking care of themselves in whatever way they need. Then they can see more clearly and tell their husbands who don't appreciate the sacrifices and service they have made to their families to take a hike.

I have to say that I do know a couple of women who give like this. Their husbands are not saying they want to leave. One woman exercises when she can fit it in, a couple of times a week. Another woman I think has given up entirely and is probably 80-100 pounds overweight at 5'3. In all honesty when I see her, I worry about her health. I don't know when it seriously starts to affect your numbers, but when I was pregnant, my cholesterol got to 289, and I gained only 50 pounds. (Actually, that is way too much for a pregnancy. I'm 5'2. And the baby was just over 6 pounds. You know what the rest was.) But it definitely was not good for my health. Anyway, I worry that she will get a heart attack, or have heart disease, or anything else. I know she is on regular medication, but I don't know for what. I do worry that her husband will look elsewhere, not that he is the type. But I can see how he may be tempted if the opportunity arises.

I don't know what I'm saying. I just feel like something is just not right with the dynamics of the relationship. It feels too imbalanced. Sorry.

 

[sonnyjane]

I don't know what I'm saying. I just feel like something is just not right with the dynamics of the relationship. It feels too imbalanced. Sorry.

I'm with you. It's that "we teach people how to treat us" principle. Act like a doormat, become a doormat.

 

[Jambalaya]

I totally hear you, Lljsmom. Two of the husbands were going to the gym EVERY DAY. One did the cooking. One friend has a part-time job and the other two have full-time jobs. The one who left before Christmas said her husband didn't help with the kids and was often on the computer, although he did the cooking.

I know they "should" do what you suggest, but some men (like my ex) can be very resistant to doing things their wives ask them to do, and when you have kids to corral too, I can see how it's easier to just do things yourself than ask, wait a week, ask twice more, etc.

And one made it very clear that the gym is simply not something she enjoys, but she likes walks. He went to the gym every day anyway. I think he'd checked out long ago, without communicating. She did put the kids first, she says, even before herself. But aren't these common, fixable marriage issues? The two gym husbands simply did not communicate - and the other one apparently never indicated it was a deal-breaker.

 

[sonnyjane]

I totally hear you, Lljsmom. Two of the husbands were going to the gym EVERY DAY. One did the cooking. One friend has a part-time job and the other two have full-time jobs. The one who left before Christmas said her husband didn't help with the kids and was often on the computer, although he did the cooking.

I know they "should" do what you suggest, but some men (like my ex) can be very resistant to doing things their wives ask them to do, and when you have kids to corral too, I can see how it's easier to just do things yourself than ask, wait a week, ask twice more, etc.

But then they are JUST as guilty as the husbands you described as wrong for not speaking up to their wives about their feelings more directly. It takes two to tango. It's easier to grow apart than confront things head on. It's easier for a guy to avoid coming home than it is to have a serious heart-to-heart. It's easier for a woman to just silently be a martyr and take on all the responsiblity than it is to confront her husband that she needs help.

 

[Jambalaya]

I know, SJ.

It's all very sad.

I just don't think that what my friends did merits the level of "punishment" they've received, for want of a better word.

ETA: And also, not everyone has great communication skills. It sounds as if many people on here speak right up the first time that something bothers them, which is great, but I think many people don't, or they can't.

 

[LLJsmom]

I totally hear you, Lljsmom. Two of the husbands were going to the gym EVERY DAY. One did the cooking. One friend has a part-time job and the other two have full-time jobs. The one who left before Christmas said her husband didn't help with the kids and was often on the computer, although he did the cooking.

I know they "should" do what you suggest, but some men (like my ex) can be very resistant to doing things their wives ask them to do, and when you have kids to corral too, I can see how it's easier to just do things yourself than ask, wait a week, ask twice more, etc.

True. Luckily, I have a very high tolerance of waiting for my DH to do stuff. I will keep bugging him until he does it. I'm nice unless it's an urgent thing. "This laundry ain't gonna fold itself." "You wash dishes while I help with homework or it's paying for the exterminator to get rid of the roaches." And if my DH wasn't generally amenable to my requests (commands), I wouldn't have married him in the first place.

For example, my bathroom. We were probably having a contest, to see who could tolerate more dirt. I wasn't gonna clean it cause I was busy. He wasn't either. So it was gross. Until we compromised and hired a cleaner. Yeah. I'm not good at martyring...

 

[sonnyjane]

I think my challenge in finding a DH was finding one that could tolerate my "speaking up". The ones that couldn't were never in the running. Or maybe they were...running the other direction?

Honestly one of my challenges in maintaining my relationships with my FRIENDS is that I get upset when they don't speak up. It's very hard for me to fathom living in a marriage in which one was afraid to talk to their spouse.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I had a friend who was the thinnest I had ever seen her when she got married. They had two kids and she gained a pretty significant amount of weight (over 60lbs) at one point she told me the last time they had sex was 18 months ago!! She had been pregnant to account for nine months (claimed the husband was not attracted to her pregnant) but then there was that whole other nine months of no sex.

He turned very cold towards her, their marriage sounded more like a roommate agreement but she would just dismiss their marriage problems because her children were the priority. She also spoke poorly of him to me, like he was a bother. Of note, she worked full time and the kids were in daycare, she had guilt about not being able to be home with them which might have contributed to her weight.

Now let's say he left her just for argument sake, I'm relatively sure she wouldn't go into the whole story about how she neglected him all that time, she might just say that it was weight related (which would be true but would only be one small part of the puzzle).

Jambalaya, not saying your friends aren't giving you the whole story but there are two sides, sure the men look horrible from the wive's side but I wonder what the husband's would say if given the chance? Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[Calliecake]

Jamabayla, If the husband had complained about the weight for years it very well could be a main reason for him wanting to leave. The others you described I felt were probably using it as an excuse.

I have often wondered if my friends ex husband regretted the divorce. Even when things were bad with the divorce I never felt he didn't still love my friend. I was at her house when he first left and he had dropped the kids off. They were arguing and when my friend left the room you could see it was killing him to know he was hurting her. I know that sounds strange but I remember coming home and telling my husband that. He was very fair in the divorce settlement and was very good about helping her afterward if she needed help. I had suspected all along he had met someone else but often wondered if he would have divorced my friend had the woman not become pregnant. The second wife was diagnosed with cancer in the first couple years of their marriage. My friend had helped take care of his and his new wife's children when his wife was ill. She knew how much her girls loved their sisters and wanted his children to feel safe and knew being with their sisters would help them. My friend remarried years ago and is really happy with her husband.

 

[Jambalaya]

Stephanie - I understand. There are two sides to every story, mostly. Sometimes not. In my research there was one woman whose husband had gone off with his secretary and her conclusion was: "People think it takes two to break up a marriage, but it doesn't - it takes one selfish man." I do think you can have a good wife who is not neglecting her husband and he has an affair anyway. I don't think it's fair for people to automatically look to assign blame to the wife - some men are just selfish so-and-sos. Didn't people blame Victoria Beckham years ago for not being with her husband more when he had that affair? It seems people DO look to apportion blame in both quarters...why is it so difficult to believe that sometimes people really can be that cruel to their spouses, and it's not the fault of the betrayed spouse. Maybe we find it hard to believe that because, if we do, it means that we are also vulnerable if we are married. Perhaps it's hard to believe that you can be the best spouse and the best person in the world and still get deeply hurt this way.

BUT, I also know that there ARE a lot of neglected men out there. That is true. I'm sure there is more to the story with two friends - one did admit to putting the kids first - but these women are loyal and true, and they don't deserve what their husbands did. They're devastated.

 

[Jambalaya]

Also playing devil's advocate: Stephanie, your friend whose husband turned very cold when she gained the weight: if she LOST all the weight and looked fab, should she forget about his treatment of her and accept him back into her heart and marriage in the fullest sense? What do you think? If my friend whose husband says it's only about weight then loses the weight and he "wants in" again, should she go for that? I'm confused and I really don't know the answer. She asked me the other night, "If I lose all the weight and everything is god with him, should I just accept that I have to be slim in order to have a really good marriage? I feel as if my character doesn't matter." My poor friend!!

Jordyonbass: Thanks for your contribution to the thread. Mrs Jordy is a lucky gal! It sounds as if you love her very much. As the only married man in this thread, I want to ask a question: What if your partner weighed about 200lb at five three/four, and stayed that way for a decade? Would you still feel the same?

Just trying to get a sense of what is fair and true in my friends' situations. If this was brought before a Court of Weight (nightmare!) how would the jury rule?

 

[Kbell]

Stephanie - I understand. There are two sides to every story, mostly. Sometimes not. In my research there was one woman whose husband had gone off with his secretary and her conclusion was: "People think it takes two to break up a marriage, but it doesn't - it takes one selfish man." I do think you can have a good wife who is not neglecting her husband and he has an affair anyway. I don't think it's fair for people to automatically look to assign blame to the wife - some men are just selfish so-and-sos. Didn't people blame Victoria Beckham years ago for not being with her husband more when he had that affair? It seems people DO look to apportion blame in both quarters...why is it so difficult to believe that sometimes people really can be that cruel to their spouses, and it's not the fault of the betrayed spouse. Maybe we find it hard to believe that because, if we do, it means that we are also vulnerable if we are married. Perhaps it's hard to believe that you can be the best spouse and the best person in the world and still get deeply hurt this way.

BUT, I also know that there ARE a lot of neglected men out there. That is true. I'm sure there is more to the story with two friends - one did admit to putting the kids first - but these women are loyal and true, and they don't deserve what their husbands did. They're devastated.

Absolutely there are some men who are just selfish you know what's. Same can be said of some women. I think trying to assign blame in your friends failed relationships isn't something you should even do. Any time my friends have had a failed relationship/marriage I have been there to listen, console them, take them out to get their minds clear, get them active - activity makes people feel good. I have never, except in one case, assigned blame and become an ex basher. That one case was clear with police intervention and a drama that lasted 5 full years in divorce court, so I was justified, as was every other person who bore witness to say this man was dirt. With the rest, because I was not a participant, because I did not live with them, because I was only hearing the side I wanted to hear, I reserve judgment. It's not my place. Why play the blame game at all? Who does that even help? Being a positive strong force as a woman & trying to lift your fellow women up is a far better way to spend your energy.

 

[Jambalaya]

Calliecake - what a sad story. I'm so sorry that your friend went through that but so happy that she is happy with a new partner. She sounds amazing, to take care of her husband's kids with another woman, one of whom was conceived during her own marriage with him. It sounds as if she's better off without such a man. I'm not convinced he still loved her. He probably acted the way he did during and after the divorce out of guilt and in order to stay close to his kids. I don't think that someone who truly loves you goes off and has such a serious affair.

 

[Jambalaya]

Kbell - I'm not assigning blame. Some contributors were considering any other reasons that might possibly go some way toward explaining the husbands' behavior, which segued into me remembering that sometimes, in this situation, people at large do tend to seek to blame the wife, like in VB's case.

But I do blame the husbands for devastating my friends this way, yes. Any reason why they couldn't have sat them down and explained how they felt and that they couldn't do it anymore, and worked out the terms of a split together? Why treat them so cruelly and then blame their weight?

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Also playing devil's advocate: Stephanie, your friend whose husband turned very cold when she gained the weight: if she LOST all the weight and looked fab, should she forget about his treatment of her and accept him back into her heart and marriage in the fullest sense? What do you think? If my friend whose husband says it's only about weight then loses the weight and he "wants in" again, should she go for that? I'm confused and I really don't know the answer. She asked me the other night, "If I lose all the weight and everything is god with him, should I just accept that I have to be slim in order to have a really good marriage? I feel as if my character doesn't matter." My poor friend!!

Jordyonbass: Thanks for your contribution to the thread. Mrs Jordy is a lucky gal! It sounds as if you love her very much. As the only married man in this thread, I want to ask a question: What if your partner weighed about 200lb at five three/four, and stayed that way for years? Would you still feel the same?

Just trying to get a sense of what is fair and true in my friends' situations. If this was brought before a Court of Weight (nightmare!) how would the jury rule?

Should she take him back? My opinion is no, but it's not that simple because in the case of a stay at home parent we depend on our spouses income to support ourselves and our kids. I can imagine a huge amount of resentment from the wife if she did stay and understandably so. To have a relationship based so heavily on one factor is strange to me.

 

[Kbell]

Kbell - I'm assigning blame. Some contributors were considering any other reasons that might possibly go some way toward explaining the husbands' behavior, which segued into me remembering that sometimes, in this situation, people at large do tend to seek to blame the wife, like in VB's case.

But I do blame the husbands for devastating my friends this way, yes. Any reason why they couldn't have sat them down and explained how they felt and that they couldn't do it anymore, and worked out the terms of a split together? Why treat them so cruelly and then blame their weight?

I know you are assigning blame. I think it's healthier to help build your friends back up instead of speculating what could have would have should have happened. You don't need the answers to these questions. It wasn't your marriage. If they are searching for answers you aren't the one who holds them. If they can't communicate with their husbands to find out, then that is part of the problem. I know you care about your friends and are devastated for them. I think trying to lift them up out of their despair will help them more than stewing, blaming, and trying to pick apart the relationship to see where it went wrong. Assigning blame is not healing. What's done is done regardless of who is at fault. Honestly - So what if he was to blame VS she? Or more likely both parties could have done better... Being right doesn't heal ones soul...It doesn't lessen the hurt. Help them pick up the pieces. Having a positive force/woman/person/role model in your life when you are down can do amazing things.

 

[Jambalaya]

Kbell - I mistyped! I think you replied before I edited my post to say I'm "not" assigning blame! I was talking about the concept of blaming the wife when the man has an affair. There was a brouhaha in the press about that with the VB story, and our discussion reminded me of that related matter.

 

[chemgirl]

I honestly think there is a lot more going on than weight. They aren't communicating and husband is out of the house a lot? Sounds like he checked out a long time ago.

There are so many solutions to the weight issue. They can eat healthier as a family or do activities as a family. For example, my gym has a "kid zone" that for an additional $20 per month. I believe that gets you up to 2 hours of supervised children's activities per day. A friend in my spin class is a single (currently stay at home) mom and she is at the gym every day lol. My point being if the husbands were actually willing to work with their spouses they could have found a solution.

Definitely more issues here than just weight.

 

[Jambalaya]

Possibly, Chemgirl. But what about the husband who has maintained consistency on this issue for many years and has tried all the above, and nothing worked? My friend says that no one "believes" her about the weight, and now I can see why she'd think that, since many people here have said the same. I wanted to take the temperature here, and it does match her experience. She was very upset today. She thinks that when other people say "Oh, it must be something else" that they're saying she must be at fault in some terrible way because it can't be just the weight. One of her friends, apparently, is VERY insistent that it MUST be something else and she cannot accept that it really might be about the weight.

What if, for at least some people, it is really and truly about the weight? She has a BMI of about 32, so it could be about the weight - that is quite heavy, and if sex is important to the husband..I know, I know. It should be about the person's inner characteristics. But what if marriage stability is more dependent on sexual attraction than we, as women, ever want to believe? What would happen if some of your friends also gained until they were clinically obese (BMI of over 30, I think) and stayed that way for a decade? Would their husbands really treat them just the same?

My friends' experiences say no.

Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Jambalaya]

Edited the above because it posted before i was ready.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Your questions are rhetorical.

When your friends come to vent, you let them vent. You support. You reflect. You are not required to supply answers.

Same on this forum. People come looking and searching for all sorts of things. Help others to help themselves. It is about support not finding a "Grand Theory" . But if you find one--and it is applicable...then please share!

That said, with my posts take what you want and leave the rest.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Jambalaya]

Totally, Sharon. I just let them vent. But I wanted to ask people's opinions because I find it an interesting topic. Are human beings really so "shallow" that a marriage can end over physical appearance? It's an interesting question. I like a debate and I live alone...so y'all are the lucky recipients of my wonderings, ha ha! And IS there a Grand Theory on this issue? Maybe! I wonder if anyone has ever parsed the divorce rate by weight.

Another topic I've just become really interested in is the issue of mustangs and population control, which i might post about shortly.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I think it is interesting people associate being thin with good sex. That has not always been my personal experience.

 

[Jambalaya]

Yes, isn't that interesting, Tacori? The sexiest organ is the brain.

 

[chemgirl]

Possibly, Chemgirl. But what about the husband who has maintained consistency on this issue for many years and has tried all the above, and nothing worked? My friend says that no one "believes" her about the weight, and now I can see why she'd think that, since many people here have said the same. I wanted to take the temperature here, and it does match her experience. She was very upset today. She thinks that when other people say "Oh, it must be something else" that they're saying she must be at fault in some terrible way because it can't be just the weight. One of her friends, apparently, is VERY insistent that it MUST be something else and she cannot accept that it really might be about the weight.

What if, for at least some people, it is really and truly about the weight? She has a BMI of about 32, so it could be about the weight - that is quite heavy, and if sex is important to the husband..I know, I know. It should be about the person's inner characteristics. But what if marriage stability is more dependent on sexual attraction than we, as women, ever want to believe? What would happen if some of your friends also gained until they were clinically obese (BMI of over 30, I think) and stayed that way for a decade? Would their husbands really treat them just the same?

My friends' experiences say no.

Just playing devil's advocate.

Well it could be the weight. Who really knows without being part of their marriage?

DH has gained weight and it doesn't bother me, but his attitude towards it does. He is always looking for a quick fix and gets annoyed at me for being thin. If I eat ice cream I hear about how unfair it is etc. I'm active, I have a fast metabolism, and I eat healthy 90% of the time so yes I am thin compared to someone who doesn't have those things. Sometimes I want to tell him to get off his butt or stop complaining.

Maybe it was something similar and your friend's husband just couldn't take it anymore.

 

[kenny]

I think it is interesting people associate being thin with good sex. That has not always been my personal experience.

I think it is interesting people associate being thin with being attractive. Finding thin men attractive has never been personal experience.