Upgrading 5.318ct to an ACA or BGD Sign - Calling M-2-B & Boom and other ACA owners

[diamondseeker2006]

Noooooooo to custom or recut on a stone that size! WAAAAYYYYYYY too much risk!

I love your projects, Phoenix!!!

That said, I would go with Whiteflash 100% without even thinking twice. For years they have had the best selection and prices of H&A stones and especially in larger sizes. They also have the best upgrade policy. I was there last year and tried on the stone grateful4life bought. They are unlikely to have more than one stone over 5 cts there at a time, and especially not with the exact specs you want. Here's a 5.59 on my 5.5 finger (in a diamond clip). I can't see a 6 ct on your little fingers.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

One more note, Houston is having horrible flooding due to the hurricane. I know Whiteflash may have some people working remotely, but I'd be aware that this coming week may be extremely difficult for them to work if they are personally affected by the flooding.

 

[valeria101]

CC @poshmommy
RE WWW

 

[mrs-b]

I remember not too long ago there didn't seem to be any insurance companies that would cover recutting, which is why I haven't recut one of my stones yet. If someone has found a vendor that will I'm all ears!!

There's some info in this thread about insuring for recutting - doesn't sound as tho it's worth much, tho.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...chipped-stone-so-that-it-can-be-recut.226279/

 

[diamondseeker2006]

MrsB, I didn't just mean the financial risk of the stone being damaged (which is considerable since I am not sure that all insurance would cover it), I meant that I have seen too many examples of a stone not turning out with the specs expected. That results in problems as the person may not want the stone but the vendor doesn't want to be stuck with a very expensive and potentially hard to sell stone. Generally if you buy a stone to recut, you have zero choice but to accept it however it turns out since you owned it from the outset. Even when doing a custom cut, you generally have to agree to a range you'd accept, as in, you can't just say I will only accept if the stone ends up with an H VS2 and a certain size.

I have had an old family diamond recut and took the risk because the stone was only a carat. But BG would not guarantee it would turn out at Signature (top cut for his brand). It turned out fine for my purposes, but they told me it was not superideal when completed. All this is to say, if one wants a H&A diamond like an ACA with certain color and clarity, it is by far best to choose a stone that is already cut like you are doing!

 

[mrs-b]

DS - I didn't actually see your postt, I'm sorry! I was just replying to Pinto's comment. I really know nothing about this, which I mentioned when I first made the suggestion. I just pinned the link in case anyone wanted to do the leg work on insurance. it seems like a tricky issue from every direction.

I've had 3 recuts done - one with BGD, one with GOG and one with DKJ. I have to say - nobody ever told me they might not come out as I expected/hoped! Gees louise - if that's the case, it would have been nice if someone had mentioned it!! I wasn't concerned about color or clarity, and there were no guarantees re size. But I'm actually very taken aback that they couldn't guarantee an h&a ideal cut, and nobody told me that! For what it's worth - and as I said, I know nothing about this, and mine was a random suggestion - the stone I did actually link to has stats that would seem to lend itself to a recut of the proportions Phoenix stated. But I really have NO opinion on this - just threw it out there as something to consider.

 

[Phoenix]

Hi Phoenix, it's been a while! Not a diamond expert here, but what a honking diamond it would be!!! I am looking forward to seeing what the end result would be

Hello Alexis, it has been too long!

How have you been?

Me too! lol

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, that would be the ideal plan, for you to visit them on a project as big as this one. I think seeing them and chatting IRL would give you the peace of mind you need to even begin such a significant endeavor. I'm so excited for you. Go for it! Have lots of fun and keep filling us in!

Btw, I forgot to say that I'm so happy that you figured out why you haven't set Holly yet. I think that makes total sense. Often it takes time to figure this stuff out. Now that you know, you can move forward. And we get to watch another big project take off! Yay!!

Thank you, LLJsmom. I'll have to wait until this horrible hurricane is out of the way and then also for the devastating after-effects to be somehow dealt with, ie. for things to settle a bit before heading over there. In any case, I'm due a visit to the USA - it's been far too long!!

I'd love it if some you and/ or some other PS'ers could accompany me. I'm thinking as a minimum, New York and Texas. Yeah, this is a monster of a project for me!!

 

[Phoenix]

Hi Phoenix!I happen to like smaller tables within their ACA parameter range.

I think personally, for your situation, that you need to make a significant jump in size to make it worth your time. I think you need to expand your search for a 6+ct honker! Classy Rocks got a 6ct WF ES which looked amazing on her!

So tell us a little more about your LM ideal setting?!

Yeah, those smaller tables are sooo fiery! Love them!! Why else did you go for in your particular stone? Did you look at any other ACAs?

I'd KILL for a 6ct+!! lol. I dunno yet. WF has made an offer for my 5.318ct. Let's see if BGD can better their price. My current stone has an average diameter of 11.20mm. A 5.5ct would offer, on ave, a diameter of 11.30-11.4mm. So yeah, you're right!! A 6ct would make it worth my while. So who knows, I might have to go down a grade in colour or clarity. And/ or I may have to sell some of my existing "stuff". Let's see...

This is the LM setting. I've looked at it for several years and still love it. Delicate enough but still plenty blingy. I'd make some slight changes, like a smaller doughnut and 6 double claw prongs (instead of 4), no amethyst or other "surprise" colour stone etc. I love love the swoopy curves on the basket; I hope the same can be created for a larger stone (though I dunno the size of the centre stone in this pic).

 

[Phoenix]

Oh, @m-2-b, are ES stones a lot cheaper than ACAs? And are they upgradable?

(I'm too lazy to go look up WF website! haha)

 

[Phoenix]

I also love this rosebud setting by Daniel K (I think it's by Daniel K though someone else said Steven Kirsch - I dunno).

I'd change the band/ shank though - am not a fan of channel set anything, a PITA to clean! lol . And I do prefer the aesthetics of the LM band in the pic above.

 

[Phoenix]

Same ring (I think?):

 

[missy]

Phoenix I cannot wait to see what you decide and you cannot go wrong with a big and beautiful ACA. They are beautiful bright fiery (from what I can see online that is!) and just WOW in every way. Sending you lots of good wishes and good luck with your upgrade!

 

[valeria101]

I've had 3 recuts done - one with BGD, one with GOG and one with DKJ. I have to say - nobody ever told me they might not come out as I expected/hoped

The comms may have depended on the stones & tasks ...

I haven't heard of diamond cutters burning the house down every couple of years - for having gambled with large diamonds ... Whatever is done with that risk, must be availble for a cut on order - who owns the material to be cut must matter, etc.; the legarly environment is famously complex & I am all too happy to not know, despite background ... Poshmommy's story makes it sound as if her order for a 4 ct OEC was dully factored in the workbook of diamonds ordered for stock - however that is done. Then, there was some arrangement for adjusting grades between expected & lab report etc. To me, it all sounded very normal - no gamble.

Approx. all I know ...

[ oops for the rant - the 200K game seems outrageous ! ... & not the only way ]

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I also love this rosebud setting by Daniel K (I think it's by Daniel K though someone else said Steven Kirsch - I dunno).

I'd change the band/ shank though - am not a fan of channel set anything, a PITA to clean! lol . And I do prefer the aesthetics of the LM band in the pic above.

I adore that setting, Phoenix! I know for sure SK makes it! Just a note...that's not a channel set band, it's bead set. My Legacy band is bead set. Nothing hard about cleaning it and the stones are much more protected from chipping!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The comms may have depended on the stones & tasks ...

I haven't heard of diamond cutters burning the house down every couple of years - for having gambled with large diamonds ... Whatever is done with that risk, must be availble for a cut on order - who owns the material to be cut must matter, etc.; the legarly environment is famously complex & I am all too happy to not know, despite background ... Poshmommy's story makes it sound as if her order for a 4 ct OEC was dully factored in the workbook of diamonds ordered for stock - however that is done. Then, there was some arrangement for adjusting grades between expected & lab report etc. To me, it all sounded very normal - no gamble.

Approx. all I know ...

[ oops for the rant - the 200K game seems outrageous ! ... & not the only way ]

Poshmommy's situation was the main one I was thinking about not turning out as expected! Her stone was entirely custom and was never intended for VC's stock. She had to wait until the cutter found rough. The rough was identified and estimated to yield a 4.3 ct I VVS which was at the higher end of her range, and that was what she really wanted and expected But when the stone was completed, it was barely over 4.02 J VS1 which was basically at the very lowest end of her range. She wasn't very happy about that and there had to be further price negotiation. She does love her stone now, I think, but she definitely had to adjust to specs different than she wanted. I am not sure that would be a good option for Phoenix or really anyone who has strong preferences on what they want.

(@mrs-b I think that is a perfectly reasonable thing to bring up! I just wanted to point out the risks!)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Oh, @m-2-b, are ES stones a lot cheaper than ACAs? And are they upgradable?

(I'm too lazy to go look up WF website! haha)

Yes, ES stones are AGS Ideal cuts and upgradable. Premium Select are GIA XXX graded and usually in the ideal range and also get full value for upgrades. I wouldn't say they are a LOT cheaper because they are all top quality diamonds. ACAs are just the top of the top! I'd consider ES and PS on a diamond by diamond basis!

They are rarely going to have multiple stones to look at within a narrow range of specs. I know when m2b was looking to upgrade her 4.5, she wanted to get as close to 5 cts as possible. When the 4.7 appeared and had the color and clarity she wanted, she bought it. It's not like there were several stones to choose from because there usually are very few available at a time over 4 cts.

 

[valeria101]

I am not sure that would be a good option for Phoenix or really anyone who has strong preferences on what they want.

I imagine that it is not possible to predict colour & clarity grades precisely - because the labs would not predict either (recalling GIA reports on rough for origin ID - grading does not apply). There must be some leeway on weight ... which, might sound better in view of the variation of prices for diamonds of any set of stats ...

Perhaps because commissions such as this are quite rare, there must have been too little said about it: I am hardly finding anything around here.

I am not sure that search parameters are often tighter than this: often enough a couple of colour & clarity grades are accepted & the name-labels for cut refer to a range of numbers also ...

I coulnd't say more. One of the cutters might ... perhaps ... some day ... should they wish ...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

@valeria101 Yes, you are correct that they cannot guarantee color, clarity, or size from the rough. That is why it is risky for those who have specific ideas of what they want their stone to end up being. You do usually have to specify a range, but that doesn't mean there won't be disappointment when the specs are estimated as one thing, but then all the specs turn out to be at the bottom of the range which was poshmommy's case. (There is also some risk to facet patterns not turning out exactly as one hopes, especially in old cuts like OECs and antique cushions.)

Recutting an existing GIA graded stone is a better guarantee of color and clarity, but then the customer takes on all the risk of the recutting. I guess people would have to check on their personal insurance to see if recutting was covered.

I don't really mean to take up anymore of Phoenix's thread talking about this since she seems to be looking at WF and BG anyway. (Sorry, Phoenix!)

 

[valeria101]

Recutting an existing GIA graded stone is a better guarantee of color and clarity, but then the customer takes on all the risk of the recutting.

'Better' as you say - perhaps - certainly not certain.

[Thread diversion over on my side too]

 

[Alexiszoe]

@Phoenix, lots have happened...moved from the US to Asia due to work, and been here for the last few years! Your next stone sounds lovely, although given the size difference in mm, would you be open to going down a notch in color or clarity for a 6 carater? I have had amazing luck with SI stones, but that does take a bit of hunting and waiting esp as it gets bigger...and there's also the mind clean thing!

 

[valeria101]

rosebud setting by Daniel K (I think it's by Daniel K ... I do prefer the aesthetics of the LM band in the pic above.

Not too far, not too close - WWW

 

[Phoenix]

Noooooooo to custom or recut on a stone that size! WAAAAYYYYYYY too much risk!

I love your projects, Phoenix!!!

That said, I would go with Whiteflash 100% without even thinking twice. For years they have had the best selection and prices of H&A stones and especially in larger sizes. They also have the best upgrade policy. I was there last year and tried on the stone grateful4life bought. They are unlikely to have more than one stone over 5 cts there at a time, and especially not with the exact specs you want. Here's a 5.59 on my 5.5 finger (in a diamond clip). I can't see a 6 ct on your little fingers.

Thank you for all your contribution, @DS. It's all great!! No threadjack - it's all relevant and helpful infor. Btw, I actually tried on a 12ct with a halo at Tiffany a couple of times and the halo was soooo delicate, I was positively swooning. Anyway, I digress!!

I hear you on the re-cutting. I'm petrified the diamond would shatter at the wheel!! @mrs-b, thank you for suggesting it. I've thought about it multiple times. Just not brave enough to try it, lol. Also, my insurer for sure would not insure it.

@DS, I know the best thing is to select from an existing inventory. Like you said, however, there aren't all that many ACAs around above 4ct to choose from, so I fear/ expect that most likely I'd go custom. Having said that, WF does have a 9ct+ ACA that's sooo tempting...but alas, it's more money than I'd like to spend on this upgrade.

So, I'd have to make sure that the contract - should I and either WF/ BGD decide to go ahead that route - is tight and covers all eventualities possible, but of course fair to both parties. I guess that an outcome like poshmommy's would have to be worked into the contract, ie. who would pay for what in which scenario etc...would I be obliged to take the stone if it ended up being an I for example instead of an H, SI instead of VS etc. And if I were to take such a lesser spec'ed stone, would I get a reduced price and if so, how much of a reduction etc. @DS, any information or suggestion you could give me would be very much appreciated.

 

[Phoenix]

@Phoenix, lots have happened...moved from the US to Asia due to work, and been here for the last few years! Your next stone sounds lovely, although given the size difference in mm, would you be open to going down a notch in color or clarity for a 6 carater? I have had amazing luck with SI stones, but that does take a bit of hunting and waiting esp as it gets bigger...and there's also the mind clean thing!

Nice!!We should catch up!! Give me a bell when you're in my neck of the woods.

I'd prefer to stay at H VS, VS1 ideally. My eventual goal is a 7ct but for now, even if it's just under 6ct (but as close to 6ct as possible), I'd be quite happy. Anyway, I'm quite colour-sensitive and it's a mind-clean thing for me , for an ering anyway. And also for an ering, I'd really like a super-ideal cut stone, since I'd be staring at the darn thing all day long!!

But of course, who knows, maybe I'd end up with an I Si1. We shall see...

 

[Phoenix]

I adore that setting, Phoenix! I know for sure SK makes it! Just a note...that's not a channel set band, it's bead set. My Legacy band is bead set. Nothing hard about cleaning it and the stones are much more protected from chipping!

Ah ok. Thank you, DS. You're really a wealth of information!!

Ha, I have seen the Legacy band at Tiffany and ADORE it. Didn't know the setting was called "bead set", lol.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix I cannot wait to see what you decide and you cannot go wrong with a big and beautiful ACA. They are beautiful bright fiery (from what I can see online that is!) and just WOW in every way. Sending you lots of good wishes and good luck with your upgrade!

Thank you, @missy. You're always an absolute sweetheart!

 

[doberman]

That's a beautiful setting, I love Leon's work. Can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

@Phoenix Sincerely, what I would personally do is tell WF I want a stone between 5.5 and ? cts and preferably H color and VS1 or possibly a clean VS2. Then let them work on it. If they can get one from their cutters, great. I'd just wait until they do (and that's what m-2-b did). There is no reason to need to get involved with custom cutting. As I mentioned earlier, grateful4life bought her 5.59 ACA last year. They just need to know what you want so they can talk to their cutters. They may want a deposit, but I wouldn't think you'd be locked in to buying the first stone they find if it doesn't have the specs you want. It's worth waiting to get the right stone! I do think you'd truly enjoy having a superideal cut!

 

[Phoenix]

@Phoenix Sincerely, what I would personally do is tell WF I want a stone between 5.5 and ? cts and preferably H color and VS1 or possibly a clean VS2. Then let them work on it. If they can get one from their cutters, great. I'd just wait until they do (and that's what m-2-b did). There is no reason to need to get involved with custom cutting. As I mentioned earlier, grateful4life bought her 5.59 ACA last year. They just need to know what you want so they can talk to their cutters. They may want a deposit, but I wouldn't think you'd be locked in to buying the first stone they find if it doesn't have the specs you want. It's worth waiting to get the right stone! I do think you'd truly enjoy having a superideal cut!

You're an absolute GEM!!! @DS, pun fully intended!!

I didn't know that's what @m-2-b did. That's FABULOUS that we have that option. I'd prefer not to be locked into a contract and having to accept a lesser spec'ed stone than one I'd really like. And I'd love to be able to see the finished product with my own eyes and compare it with other superideal cut diamonds.

Yes, I knew that @grateful4life bought an ACA that was in inventory too. So yeah, it's so worth waiting for them to get one that fits my preferred criteria.

Thank you so much, DS!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

.would I be obliged to take the stone if it ended up being an I for example instead of an H, SI instead of VS etc. And if I were to take such a lesser spec'ed stone, would I get a reduced price and if so, how much of a reduction etc. @DS, any information or suggestion you could give me would be very much appreciated.

Phoenix
The best thing for you to do is to get 4 different quotes from WF/BGD or whichever vendor you decided to go with ..i.e. If the stone come back...
H VS1 will be XXX
H VS2 will be XXX
I VS1 will be XXX
I VS2 will be XXX

I would also talk with Wink about a custom cut CBI. IMO, Wink have the best custom cut policy were the customer can't lose. ..