Upgrading 5.318ct to an ACA or BGD Sign - Calling M-2-B & Boom and other ACA owners

[Phoenix]

So, I've finally figured out the reason why I still haven't set Holly in a permanent setting. I'm going to upgrade her to a larger, super-ideal cut diamond. I think I'd like to go with a 5.5ct-5.8ct initially, H colour and VS clarity. 6ct+ would be fantastic (funds permitting of course!! lol).

I've been in touch with both WF and BGD. I haven't decided yet with whom I'll go. I guess it'll depend on 1) whether they will take in my 5.318ct stone (WF will, waiting to hear from BGD), 2) what pricing they'd give me on my existing stone, and 3) the pricing of the incoming stone.

In the meantime, I'd like to check whether or not to go the custom route or wait until a suitable stone comes along. I was wondering though, those of you who have an ACA, what made you decide on your particular stone? I remember @Boom mentioning that you were able to choose amongst various 5ct+ stones. I'm thinking I'd like a super small table, ideally 54-55 deg (not larger than 56), a higher crown (35 or 35.5), not too deep a depth or a thicker girdle (I don't want to lose the spread on a deeper cut stone) and fatter chunkier arrows (75 LGF, I guess?). @m-2-b, I'd love it if you could chime in also please.

What do you all think? I know if the crown is higher than 35 deg, then it may not be within the Garry Holloway's recommended criteria. But has anyone seen an ACA with a crown larger than 35 deg? The reason I mention this is bc I used to own a 3ct stone GIA triple Excellent stone and it was super super fiery, despite it not conforming to the HCA model; it has a 35.5 crown. Actually, @yssie, if you are reading this, I know you prefer super high crowns; would you care to share your thoughts please?

Others, please feel free to chime in - with anything that comes to mind, that you think may be helpful . This would be my largest most expensive upgrade and I need as much information as I can gather. I'm a little nervous, truth be told!!

 

[Phoenix]

Typo! I meant 54-55% table. Ya'all know what I meant! lol

 

[Dancing Fire]

WoW! Phoenix how exciting !.... My dream specs with be ...
54-55% table
15.5-15.7% crown height
34.7- 35 crown angle
40.7 pavil.
pavil depth of 42.9%.
total depth of 61.8-61.9%

 

[Acinom]

What an exciting upgrade!!! I will definitely follow your thread. I cannot advise you though as I am not a diamond expert. Enjoy the process!!

 

[mrs-b]

Hey Phoenix

Having just been through exactly the same process myself, with probably the same intentions, I wanted to say what a pleasure it was to work with Whiteflash. I had a close-to-super-ideal stone that I wanted to be super, SUPER ideal - and I was looking for H VS2 also. I was looking between 4 and 5ct with 5 being my max; I have owned a 5+ct stone in the past and it just sat too high for me (I'll come back to that).

I like a 35.5 crown angle - so long as it's paired with a pavilion angle 40.8 or below - ideally 40.6. That combo *does* meet the 'Gary Holloway prescribed ideal stats'. I LOVE higher, smaller tables - I like the stronger architectural elements that come with that, and I wanted a depth that started 61... I didn't care how it finished - 61.95 would have been fine - but I just didn't want it to start with a 62. In a stone that size, I only want an LGF of 75 - I prefer the chunkier arrows, and I find 80, for example, too needle-like. So it sounds like we were looking for exactly the same thing, tho you are plus a ct over where I was looking. I was looking up to 6 ct if it was going to be en EC (the other cut I was considering), and the 5 ct limit with a round and 6 ct limit with an EC were my limits because I find anything larger than that too hard to set in anything other than a plain solitaire; cathedral arms, for instance, end up being almost perpendicular to your finger. I have no problem with flashy - I mean, we're talking diamonds when all is said and done - but it's the logistics of the design, and I didn't want a huge stone which was just set in prongs/claws. I want some specific design elements, and it doesn't appeal to my eye as much when those parts of the ring are a long way above my finger.

In the end, WF had only one stone that met my criteria and it was 4.15ct. I had hoped to be over 4.5 - but I wanted to make a decision and the ongoing mental process, for me, is such a drain (should I/shouldn't I? this one/another one? rounds/EC's? etcetcetcetcetc)- so I took the 4.15 and my husband and I have agreed we'll upgrade if this one doesn't cut the mustard.

WF made the process incredibly easy. Brittany was in the office taking my CC number while Hurricane Harvey was closing in, because I hadn't managed to get my butt into gear earlier in the day. That's service! I've had my diamond provisionally approved as a trade in, but it has to be checked by WF when I send it in tomorrow, so I'm hoping that goes smoothly. Something I liked about the folks at WF is that they're fast - none of this sending in an enquiry then not hearing back for days stuff. I told them I had a potential external trade up stone and they had an offer back to me the next day.

One last thing - I've also started doing some business with Victor Canera and have bought a few of his signature line H&A's. His stones are gorgeous, and he offers a great upgrade policy also. His stats are exacting and his eye is faultless. His stock is small, tho - he's a jeweler, not a diamond trader - but if he'd had a larger selection he would have been a strong contender. There's something about his stones that seems a tad softer to me; I can't back up that statement with stats - it's just how they look to my eye. There's a softness - a prettiness - to them which I find very beautiful.

Good luck, Phoenix - I hope you get, as Jonathan Weingarten of GOG once said to me - "a gorgeous, honking great diamond!"

 

[Alexiszoe]

Hi Phoenix, it's been a while! Not a diamond expert here, but what a honking diamond it would be!!! I am looking forward to seeing what the end result would be

 

[Phoenix]

WoW! Phoenix how exciting !.... My dream specs with be ...
54-55% table
15.5-15.7% crown height
34.7- 35 crown angle
40.7 pavil.
pavil depth of 42.9%.
total depth of 61.8-61.9%

Look good, DF!! I think these are very super-ideal. I think, irl, the larger the stone gets, the harder it is to get close to super-ideal proportions. So, good luck to me! I think the search will take a while.

 

[Phoenix]

What an exciting upgrade!!! I will definitely follow your thread. I cannot advise you though as I am not a diamond expert. Enjoy the process!!

Thank you, Acinom.

One I'm done with this, i may look into a big honking blue sapphire, like yours - this is what (bling) dreams are made of.

 

[valeria101]

In the meantime, I'd like to check whether or not to go the custom route or wait until a suitable stone comes along.

The tight range of numbers seem much more suitable for custom ... It is an entirely different 'market' to extend your search on, so double the chances.

Good luck !

 

[MissGotRocks]

Whiteflash has a page on their website that shows the range of specs of ACA stones. The crown angle can only be 34-35 and the LGF 76-80. They are fabulous though; I can't say enough about my upgraded stone through Whiteflash - I still marvel at it every day!
Best of luck to you Phoenix and I hope this all works out for you! These ACA stones are simply gorgeous! I really enjoyed working with Whiteflash as well. First class folks there and as mrs-b said, they move the process right along with I just loved!

 

[Phoenix]

Hey Phoenix

Having just been through exactly the same process myself, with probably the same intentions, I wanted to say what a pleasure it was to work with Whiteflash. I had a close-to-super-ideal stone that I wanted to be super, SUPER ideal - and I was looking for H VS2 also. I was looking between 4 and 5ct with 5 being my max; I have owned a 5+ct stone in the past and it just sat too high for me (I'll come back to that).

I like a 35.5 crown angle - so long as it's paired with a pavilion angle 40.8 or below - ideally 40.6. That combo *does* meet the 'Gary Holloway prescribed ideal stats'. I LOVE higher, smaller tables - I like the stronger architectural elements that come with that, and I wanted a depth that started 61... I didn't care how it finished - 61.95 would have been fine - but I just didn't want it to start with a 62. In a stone that size, I only want an LGF of 75 - I prefer the chunkier arrows, and I find 80, for example, too needle-like. So it sounds like we were looking for exactly the same thing, tho you are plus a ct over where I was looking. I was looking up to 6 ct if it was going to be en EC (the other cut I was considering), and the 5 ct limit with a round and 6 ct limit with an EC were my limits because I find anything larger than that too hard to set in anything other than a plain solitaire; cathedral arms, for instance, end up being almost perpendicular to your finger. I have no problem with flashy - I mean, we're talking diamonds when all is said and done - but it's the logistics of the design, and I didn't want a huge stone which was just set in prongs/claws. I want some specific design elements, and it doesn't appeal to my eye as much when those parts of the ring are a long way above my finger.

In the end, WF had only one stone that met my criteria and it was 4.15ct. I had hoped to be over 4.5 - but I wanted to make a decision and the ongoing mental process, for me, is such a drain (should I/shouldn't I? this one/another one? rounds/EC's? etcetcetcetcetc)- so I took the 4.15 and my husband and I have agreed we'll upgrade if this one doesn't cut the mustard.

WF made the process incredibly easy. Brittany was in the office taking my CC number while Hurricane Harvey was closing in, because I hadn't managed to get my butt into gear earlier in the day. That's service! I've had my diamond provisionally approved as a trade in, but it has to be checked by WF when I send it in tomorrow, so I'm hoping that goes smoothly. Something I liked about the folks at WF is that they're fast - none of this sending in an enquiry then not hearing back for days stuff. I told them I had a potential external trade up stone and they had an offer back to me the next day.

One last thing - I've also started doing some business with Victor Canera and have bought a few of his signature line H&A's. His stones are gorgeous, and he offers a great upgrade policy also. His stats are exacting and his eye is faultless. His stock is small, tho - he's a jeweler, not a diamond trader - but if he'd had a larger selection he would have been a strong contender. There's something about his stones that seems a tad softer to me; I can't back up that statement with stats - it's just how they look to my eye. There's a softness - a prettiness - to them which I find very beautiful.

Good luck, Phoenix - I hope you get, as Jonathan Weingarten of GOG once said to me - "a gorgeous, honking great diamond!"

Ya'know, Mrs B, you and I have super similar tastes. I'd LOVE to have a honking EC too; and for me, my ideal for an EC would be about 7 or 8ct. I missed out on an excellent deal on an 11ct EC (thought it was too big, which it is; but did I say it was an amazing deal!!) and still kick myself for it!!

It'd be perfect if a vendor could locate a superideal 5.5-6ct MRB for me that fits OUR criteria, hehe. Fingers crossed!! Let's see...

I don't like cathedral settings for *me* (no offence to those that have one), but I know what you mean abt the cathedral arms being perpendicular.

I even know which setting I want for this stone. Isn't that funny, that I found the ideal setting before I could decide on the stone. But it's a LM and I know he prefers to set his own stones. So, we shall see....I've heard only excellent things about WF. Good for them for going beyond and above for you. Let's hope that they can make this deal happen for me...well, either them or BGD.

I've enquired with VC in the past, but he doesn't deal with big big stones. You're right, he's not a diamond dealer. I've never seen one of his stones, would love to though.

Can't wait to see your new pretty on yr finger. It's going to be beyond FAAAAABULOUS!!

 

[Phoenix]

The tight range of numbers seem much more suitable for custom ... It is an entirely different 'market' to extend your search on, so double the chances.

Good luck !

The more I think about it, the more I think it'd likely be custom. I'm so worried though, that the stone would end up being of worse specs than planned.

In any event, I'd need to pay WF a visit in person if I decide to go with them. I gather there are nuances with each diamond and thus they offer slightly different looks. I'd need to see them all (what's available at the time of course) in person to make a final decision on what appeals to my eye the most.

 

[valeria101]

The more I think about it, the more I think it'd likely be custom. I'm so worried though, that the stone would end up being of worse specs than planned.

I'd say this is the cutter's worry & art ...

Discussing the rough would be interesting in its own right to me (doesn't it show !). You may blame Yoram F. for my romantic expectations of such a project - he is too friendly.

 

[Phoenix]

Whiteflash has a page on their website that shows the range of specs of ACA stones. The crown angle can only be 34-35 and the LGF 76-80. They are fabulous though; I can't say enough about my upgraded stone through Whiteflash - I still marvel at it every day!
Best of luck to you Phoenix and I hope this all works out for you! These ACA stones are simply gorgeous! I really enjoyed working with Whiteflash as well. First class folks there and as mrs-b said, they move the process right along with I just loved!

Ah, ok. Thanks for that, MGR. I didn't do my homework, obviously! lol

I'd need to keep my parameters within their prescribed range (so as to make sure it stayed an ACA, not least for upgrading later on - if and when), but as close to my preferred stats as possible.

The more I hear, the more I like them. Let's hope they can assist me. Fingers crossed!!

 

[Phoenix]

I'd say this is the cutter's worry & art ...

Discussing the rough would be interesting in its own right to me (doesn't it show !). You may blame Yoram F. for my romantic expectations of such a project - he is too friendly.

I'd say this is the cutter's worry & art ...

Discussing the rough would be interesting in its own right to me (doesn't it show !). You may blame Yoram F. for my romantic expectations of such a project - he is too friendly.

I'd need to work it into the contract though.

Lol! too funny!

 

[valeria101]

I'd need to work it into the contract though.
Lol! too funny!

If the diamond can be made, the contract is a piece of paper stating the obvious.

I imagine that you will get to know what can be achieved - a small set of desirable possibilities, to begin with.

 

[LLJsmom]

The more I think about it, the more I think it'd likely be custom. I'm so worried though, that the stone would end up being of worse specs than planned.

In any event, I'd need to pay WF a visit in person if I decide to go with them. I gather there are nuances with each diamond and thus they offer slightly different looks. I'd need to see them all (what's available at the time of course) in person to make a final decision on what appeals to my eye the most.

Phoenix, that would be the ideal plan, for you to visit them on a project as big as this one. I think seeing them and chatting IRL would give you the peace of mind you need to even begin such a significant endeavor. I'm so excited for you. Go for it! Have lots of fun and keep filling us in!

Btw, I forgot to say that I'm so happy that you figured out why you haven't set Holly yet. I think that makes total sense. Often it takes time to figure this stuff out. Now that you know, you can move forward. And we get to watch another big project take off! Yay!!

 

[m-2-b]

Hi Phoenix!I happen to like smaller tables within their ACA parameter range.

I think personally, for your situation, that you need to make a significant jump in size to make it worth your time. I think you need to expand your search for a 6+ct honker! Classy Rocks got a 6ct WF ES which looked amazing on her!

So tell us a little more about your LM ideal setting?!

 

[LLJsmom]

WF made the process incredibly easy. Brittany was in the office taking my CC number while Hurricane Harvey was closing in, because I hadn't managed to get my butt into gear earlier in the day. That's service! I've had my diamond provisionally approved as a trade in, but it has to be checked by WF when I send it in tomorrow, so I'm hoping that goes smoothly. Something I liked about the folks at WF is that they're fast - none of this sending in an enquiry then not hearing back for days stuff. I told them I had a potential external trade up stone and they had an offer back to me the next day.

One last thing - I've also started doing some business with Victor Canera and have bought a few of his signature line H&A's. His stones are gorgeous, and he offers a great upgrade policy also. His stats are exacting and his eye is faultless. His stock is small, tho - he's a jeweler, not a diamond trader - but if he'd had a larger selection he would have been a strong contender. There's something about his stones that seems a tad softer to me; I can't back up that statement with stats - it's just how they look to my eye. There's a softness - a prettiness - to them which I find very beautiful.

@mrs-b Thanks for sharing your observations. I don't want to derail Phoenix's thread, but these thoughts and opinions are really helpful as I feel like I 'need' a diamond from Victor at some point, but I've never taken the time to study and compare his MRBs to another vendor's. I always thought I would choose a CAC, but if I wanted a MRB, maybe I should consider one of his too. WF has always been my default, no-brainer choice if/when I get to that point. I am very happy for you that WF went above and beyond to help you nab the diamond of your dreams. I can't wait to see it in it's final home, but I will discuss that in your other thread.

@Phoenix my gut says that if you would consider WF, you could at least have a productive conversation with them to see if anything could be worked out with your current stone and an upgrade. I am very hopeful for you, and can't wait to see what happens!

 

[carbonfan]

Wow, what an exciting upgrade! I have had a wonderful experience with Whiteflash so I can certainly vouch for them, and Victor's diamonds are incredibly beautiful as well. And I would also echo advice that others on PS have given me... namely, enjoy the process! I will be following your journey and I look forward to finding out what you decide on!!

 

[msop04]

Wow, wow, WOW!! What an exciting upgrade, @Phoenix!!! All these SUPER HUGE ACAs are making me feel inadequate... HA! #butseriously

 

[mrs-b]

Phoenix, I have no idea what your budget is, tho I can take a fair guess. So - have you thought about a Blue Nile re-cut? There's this on their site:

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08699072

It's a whisker over 7ct, so would have to recut solidly above 6ct. Looking at the table and crown angle, the depth, and the pavilion angle, I suspect you'd be able to request a finished stone with high-ish crown and smaller table. You'd also know exactly what color and clarity you were getting. And, of course , you'd get a super ideal cut.

Just a thought.

ETA I can't recall the stats on the one I just bought - 56% I think, and 34.5 pavilion angle. So - great stats...but not my ideal. I'm fine with that; if I reeeeeally want a high crown and small table, I'll bite the bullet and get an OEC like any normal person!

 

[mrs-b]

@mrs-b Thanks for sharing your observations. I don't want to derail Phoenix's thread, but these thoughts and opinions are really helpful as I feel like I 'need' a diamond from Victor at some point, but I've never taken the time to study and compare his MRBs to another vendor's. I always thought I would choose a CAC, but if I wanted a MRB, maybe I should consider one of his too. WF has always been my default, no-brainer choice if/when I get to that point. I am very happy for you that WF went above and beyond to help you nab the diamond of your dreams. I can't wait to see it in it's final home, but I will discuss that in your other thread.

I can't put my finger on why they're different, @LLJsmom - to my eye, they just are. Give it some thought - I suspect you'd be thrilled with the final product.

 

[PintoBean]

Phoenix, I have no idea what your budget is, tho I can take a fair guess. So - have you thought about a Blue Nile re-cut? There's this on their site:

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08699072

It's a whisker over 7ct, so would have to recut solidly above 6ct. Looking at the table and crown angle, the depth, and the pavilion angle, I suspect you'd be able to request a finished stone with high-ish crown and smaller table. You'd also know exactly what color and clarity you were getting. And, of course , you'd get a super ideal cut.

Just a thought.

ETA I can't recall the stats on the one I just bought - 56% I think, and 34.5 pavilion angle. So - great stats...but not my ideal. I'm fine with that; if I reeeeeally want a high crown and small table, I'll bite the bullet and get an OEC like any normal person!

The scary part is that if the stone shatters on the wheel she is out almost $200,0000.

 

[canuk-gal]

Hi Phoenix!I happen to like smaller tables within their ACA parameter range.

I think personally, for your situation, that you need to make a significant jump in size to make it worth your time. I think you need to expand your search for a 6+ct honker! Classy Rocks got a 6ct WF ES which looked amazing on her!

So tell us a little more about your LM ideal setting?!

Is there a thread with this ring????? I must have my fair share of the ogling!!

 

[m-2-b]

Is there a thread with this ring????? I must have my fair share of the ogling!!

Yes there is, but very few pics of the actual ring in this thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/if-it-was-your-diamond-i-would-love-to-know.192018/

 

[valeria101]

The scary part is that if the stone shatters on the wheel she is out almost $200,0000.

Starting rough must be better $$$

 

[mrs-b]

The scary part is that if the stone shatters on the wheel she is out almost $200,0000.

Unless she gets it insured. I know some dealers and jewelers using outside stones require that. I have no idea how that works tho.

 

[PintoBean]

Unless she gets it insured. I know some dealers and jewelers using outside stones require that. I have no idea how that works tho.

I remember not too long ago there didn't seem to be any insurance companies that would cover recutting, which is why I haven't recut one of my stones yet. If someone has found a vendor that will I'm all ears!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Look good, DF!! I think these are very super-ideal. I think, irl, the larger the stone gets, the harder it is to get close to super-ideal proportions. So, good luck to me! I think the search will take a while.

yeah, for some unknown reasons it is rare to see a big carat ACA with 54-55% table. I guess b/c they don't cut many 5+ ct ACAs. Good luck Phoenix. Can't wait to see your monster size ACA. H VS is an ex combo!..