Unresolved issue with Ouros

[sparkleandfire]

I haven’t heard from them, I would like to hear what they have to say before I open a case on paypal. If I don’t hear back from them in the next few days I’ll go that route.

 

[KeepStepping]

I wonder if either of you have received any resolution, because it appears that I may be in the same boat now. I requested step cut traps and step cut bullets cut to very specific measurements for a ring project. I’m not sure that the traps are even. But, the bigger issue was that the bullets were actually radiant-cut tapered baguettes when they were shown to me. It looks like he went the recut from the same stones route too, and to my eye these do not look like step cut bullets.

The sidestones of the ring are to flank an emerald cut diamond (to mimic the 5 stone Leon Mege design, but set by DK), so these partially radiant partially step-cut stones through off the entire look. At least to my eye. Can anyone confirm?

I’m not able to upload the video directly.

Now I have my doubts about the original traps, too. I’ve put down a deposit, 2 months ago for $1,000, but have not yet fully paid. Unfortunately, I went through IG for purchase (at the encouragement of their chat person) so my protection currently is PayPal only.

If these are a wash, can anyone suggest a reliable cutter? DK was looking, but this is for a larger ring size so the proportions of the traps and bullets are somewhat non traditional.

 

[sparkleandfire]

I wonder if either of you have received any resolution, because it appears that I may be in the same boat now. I requested step cut traps and step cut bullets cut to very specific measurements for a ring project. I’m not sure that the traps are even. But, the bigger issue was that the bullets were actually radiant-cut tapered baguettes when they were shown to me. It looks like he went the recut from the same stones route too, and to my eye these do not look like step cut bullets.

The sidestones of the ring are to flank an emerald cut diamond (to mimic the 5 stone Leon Mege design, but set by DK), so these partially radiant partially step-cut stones through off the entire look. At least to my eye. Can anyone confirm?

I’m not able to upload the video directly.

Now I have my doubts about the original traps, too. I’ve put down a deposit, 2 months ago for $1,000, but have not yet fully paid. Unfortunately, I went through IG for purchase (at the encouragement of their chat person) so my protection currently is PayPal only.

If these are a wash, can anyone suggest a reliable cutter? DK was looking, but this is for a larger ring size so the proportions of the traps and bullets are somewhat non traditional.

 

[sparkleandfire]

I still have not received a refund from Dec. They kept trying to “ correct “ them. I have stated multiple times to refund me. Like you Paypal is my only protection, they moved the conversation from Etsy to WhatsApp said it was easier for them. I question my proportions as well, it’s been a mess. Keep me updated. I too am looking for another vendor for side stones.

 

[La2020]

@sparkleandfire @KeepStepping, were u informed to forgo the 1st installment amount, if you wish to drop the project? Was that stated in the invoice?

 

[sparkleandfire]

It stated no refund on custom projects, but he was not able to deliver the project and I gave him ample time to correct it. He just now sent me a msg that he will send a refund. I gave him multiple chances and months to get it right as I understood mistakes happen, unfortunately he just couldn’t ever get the cut to look right.

 

[shelikessparkles]

I wonder if either of you have received any resolution, because it appears that I may be in the same boat now. I requested step cut traps and step cut bullets cut to very specific measurements for a ring project. I’m not sure that the traps are even. But, the bigger issue was that the bullets were actually radiant-cut tapered baguettes when they were shown to me. It looks like he went the recut from the same stones route too, and to my eye these do not look like step cut bullets.

The sidestones of the ring are to flank an emerald cut diamond (to mimic the 5 stone Leon Mege design, but set by DK), so these partially radiant partially step-cut stones through off the entire look. At least to my eye. Can anyone confirm?

I’m not able to upload the video directly.

Now I have my doubts about the original traps, too. I’ve put down a deposit, 2 months ago for $1,000, but have not yet fully paid. Unfortunately, I went through IG for purchase (at the encouragement of their chat person) so my protection currently is PayPal only.

If these are a wash, can anyone suggest a reliable cutter? DK was looking, but this is for a larger ring size so the proportions of the traps and bullets are somewhat non traditional.

I did receive a refund after 3 requests through Etsy messaging asking for a refund and to cancel the order. He offered to cut new stones but I asked him to please just cancel the order and refund the money.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

I did receive a refund after 3 requests through Etsy messaging asking for a refund and to cancel the order. He offered to cut new stones but I asked him to please just cancel the order and refund the money.

Geez finally. So sorry you had to go through all that. Glad you finally got your refund.

 

[digital_bling]

It would appear that Ouros has been suspended from Etsy

 

[Mlh]

It would appear that Ouros has been suspended from Etsy

Wow.

 

[digital_bling]

Wow.

It took quite a while to happen! I wonder how many complaints Etsy received in order for them to pull the plug.

Ouros have addressed it in IG stories I'm like

So, from here, I assume future buyers who purchase directly from them won't have the same level of buyer protection? Etsy, while slow to act, at least had a record of messages between seller and buyer with timestamps, etc.

 

[Mlh]

It took quite a while to happen! I wonder how many complaints Etsy received in order for them to pull the plug.

Ouros have addressed it in IG stories I'm like

So, from here, I assume future buyers who purchase directly from them won't have the same level of buyer protection? Etsy, while slow to act, at least had a record of messages between seller and buyer with timestamps, etc.

Thank you for posting about this!!

 

[Mreader]

Ouros have addressed it in IG stories I'm like

I looked and I only see something vague. Did they say something else? Or something specific?

 

[SomethingNew]

I looked and I only see something vague. Did they say something else? Or something specific?

I didn't see anything either...

I was considering buying something from them (they have some unique lab OECs that I was interested in), but had been putting it aside.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Edit: For the people without IG.
Okay, there's this. Any other info?

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Edit: For the people without IG.
Okay, there's this. Any other info?

There was something on Reddit a day or so ago. I copy-pasted the text here:

Beware of Ouros/GoldenBird

I posted yesterday (in similar subreddits) about jumping ship from a shady seller but didn’t name the company because I was seeking advice. Ouros is a lab diamond retailer based in India, operated by Vijay. The case has since progressed so I am writing to directly warn anyone further from ordering from this company.

Here goes.

We ordered a ring from Ouros and paid an initial deposit of $1500 (with another $3500 to follow once ring was made). To note: the stone was not custom cut (it was from their availabile repository, and I was also able to find it on brilliance.com as well). We wanted a simple solitaire on a gold band with platinum prongs.

We had to go through 6 CAD designs back and forth because the measurements of the stone, the ring width, and the ring size, etc. kept having to be repeatedly corrected by us. He either put the wrong stone in, kept getting the finger size wrong, and then the ring width wrong, etc. At this point we were already mildly frustrated but weren’t aware this was a red flag.

The process from deposit to the final 6th CAD was almost 6 weeks (41 days).
On the last CAD I again corrected the ring size, just to be sure.

Few weeks later the ring was made, and we asked to see caliper measurements. First, the stone dimensions were off. Both length and width of the stone (by electronic caliper) was smaller than that of the original diamond we paid for. When asked how this could be, he said his caliper was calibrated wrong, but he “promised” us it was the right stone.
Then on the ring size, the caliper showed it’s been made too big (size 3.75). I asked for it to be put on a measuring wand to check (because the sizing beads we requested might still make it the right size, and also bc he already said his caliper was off), and this time I get sent a doctored photo with the ring obviously perched on a semi-horizontally-held wand with it showing it's now miraculously a size 2.5. Going from a 3.75 to a 2.5 by sizing beads is itself impossible (Vijay himself admitted it should change the size by 0.5 or 0.75 at most) but also you can see clearly in the photo that they’ve just placed the ring at that size point on the wand and there’s actual space between the ring and the wand. Also, 2.5 isn’t even the right size so even the duping was done wrong. When I asked how this is possible (to go from 3.75 on electronic caliper to a 2.5 on a ring wand), and whether we could fix it, Vijay responds that fixing it "is not possible...however, if you had asked this of me in advance, I would have been able to do so". So he blamed us.
But the thing is, I had specified this. Multiple CAD files show me correcting the size.

At this point, I posted on Reddit to ask advice, and multiple people messaged me their own bad experiences with Ouros and told me unanimously to request a Case Dispute on PayPal to get my original deposit back and just cancel the order. The doctored photo itself made me not trust Vijay, and then him blaming us claiming we didn't say the correct size (when I have 6 CADs proving otherwise) was worse. But what really helped was the reddit comments and outpouring of DMs telling me their own experiences with him.

When we told Vijay we're cancelling today, he refused to send back the deposit. He keeps saying he’s been “loyal” to us (whatever that means?) and to not cancel.

So here we are. A PayPal case has been opened. I have sent photos of the ring and the design failures to Paypal and am awaiting their deliberation.

I am writing to warn anyone about using this company. You can message me and I can send you the messages I received from other buyers (names redacted) or the photos I have of our own experience if you need proof.

Google the following to see the 70+ bad reviews:
1. “Beware Ouros reddit”,
2. “Buyer beware golden bird”,
3. “anyone else have a bad experience with Ouros”
4. “Trouble with Ouros”

I wish I’d seen this before I got started.

EDIT1: Etsy has suspended his store since this morning while he’s been investigated for a claim made by a different customer.

I have also made official complaints to Etsy, EBay, and Facebook, as well as left reviews with receipts, screenshots of all deceptive communication, and evidence of the duped pics, and links to these posts (in case that helps elucidate his pattern of behavior).

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Thank you for the additional info @AllAboardTheBlingTrain!
Just, whoa, I'd say that's super concerning.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

He's so talented and innovative but who needs this?
Very sorry you're going thru all this.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

There was something on Reddit a day or so ago. I copy-pasted the text here:

Beware of Ouros/GoldenBird

I posted yesterday (in similar subreddits) about jumping ship from a shady seller but didn’t name the company because I was seeking advice. Ouros is a lab diamond retailer based in India, operated by Vijay. The case has since progressed so I am writing to directly warn anyone further from ordering from this company.

Here goes.

We ordered a ring from Ouros and paid an initial deposit of $1500 (with another $3500 to follow once ring was made). To note: the stone was not custom cut (it was from their availabile repository, and I was also able to find it on brilliance.com as well). We wanted a simple solitaire on a gold band with platinum prongs.

We had to go through 6 CAD designs back and forth because the measurements of the stone, the ring width, and the ring size, etc. kept having to be repeatedly corrected by us. He either put the wrong stone in, kept getting the finger size wrong, and then the ring width wrong, etc. At this point we were already mildly frustrated but weren’t aware this was a red flag.

The process from deposit to the final 6th CAD was almost 6 weeks (41 days).
On the last CAD I again corrected the ring size, just to be sure.

Few weeks later the ring was made, and we asked to see caliper measurements. First, the stone dimensions were off. Both length and width of the stone (by electronic caliper) was smaller than that of the original diamond we paid for. When asked how this could be, he said his caliper was calibrated wrong, but he “promised” us it was the right stone.
Then on the ring size, the caliper showed it’s been made too big (size 3.75). I asked for it to be put on a measuring wand to check (because the sizing beads we requested might still make it the right size, and also bc he already said his caliper was off), and this time I get sent a doctored photo with the ring obviously perched on a semi-horizontally-held wand with it showing it's now miraculously a size 2.5. Going from a 3.75 to a 2.5 by sizing beads is itself impossible (Vijay himself admitted it should change the size by 0.5 or 0.75 at most) but also you can see clearly in the photo that they’ve just placed the ring at that size point on the wand and there’s actual space between the ring and the wand. Also, 2.5 isn’t even the right size so even the duping was done wrong. When I asked how this is possible (to go from 3.75 on electronic caliper to a 2.5 on a ring wand), and whether we could fix it, Vijay responds that fixing it "is not possible...however, if you had asked this of me in advance, I would have been able to do so". So he blamed us.
But the thing is, I had specified this. Multiple CAD files show me correcting the size.

At this point, I posted on Reddit to ask advice, and multiple people messaged me their own bad experiences with Ouros and told me unanimously to request a Case Dispute on PayPal to get my original deposit back and just cancel the order. The doctored photo itself made me not trust Vijay, and then him blaming us claiming we didn't say the correct size (when I have 6 CADs proving otherwise) was worse. But what really helped was the reddit comments and outpouring of DMs telling me their own experiences with him.

When we told Vijay we're cancelling today, he refused to send back the deposit. He keeps saying he’s been “loyal” to us (whatever that means?) and to not cancel.

So here we are. A PayPal case has been opened. I have sent photos of the ring and the design failures to Paypal and am awaiting their deliberation.

I am writing to warn anyone about using this company. You can message me and I can send you the messages I received from other buyers (names redacted) or the photos I have of our own experience if you need proof.

Google the following to see the 70+ bad reviews:
1. “Beware Ouros reddit”,
2. “Buyer beware golden bird”,
3. “anyone else have a bad experience with Ouros”
4. “Trouble with Ouros”

I wish I’d seen this before I got started.

EDIT1: Etsy has suspended his store since this morning while he’s been investigated for a claim made by a different customer.

I have also made official complaints to Etsy, EBay, and Facebook, as well as left reviews with receipts, screenshots of all deceptive communication, and evidence of the duped pics, and links to these posts (in case that helps elucidate his pattern of behavior).

For avoidance of doubt: I want to clarify that I just copy pasted the text from Reddit, it hasn’t happened to me. But yes, I feel terrible for the OP!

 

[dk168]

It would appear that Ouros has been suspended from Etsy

Not sure if they were forced to stop trading or volunteered to do so.

DK

 

[rosethorn]

Looks like his goldenbird shop is still operating on Etsy. Not sure I understand that - Etsy must know both shops are run by the same people?

 

[dk168]

A general advice, based on what I experienced elsewhere on a dating site famous for the swiping left or right.

Always use the site's messaging service for communications.

If the communications are conducted outside the site's messaging service, then if something happens, it would be difficult for the site to take action.

With the dating site I mentioned, as soon as the communications were moved to WA, I was blocked, and when the gents I was communicating turned out to be scammers who wanted money from to help them out of difficult situations, I was not able to report them.

It happened to me with 3 different gents, and I gave up on that site and online dating soon afterwards, as it was not worth the hassle.

No loss to me as I clamped up as soon as money was mentioned, having my fingers burnt in the past.

My recent post about being contacted via WA from an Etsy vendor was Ouros, and they asked if I could be contacted via e-mail and I said no - I said it has to be via Etsy's messaging service or nothing at all.

DK

 

[KeepStepping]

My recent post about being contacted via WA from an Etsy vendor was Ouros, and they asked if I could be contacted via e-mail and I said no

It appears, then, that it is actively part of Vijay/Ouros’s strategy to lore clients away from Etsy and the protections the marketplace offers buyers.

I know that in my experience, there was a lot of stalling and active redirection from their side. I’m not sure what they once were, and perhaps it has a bit to do with sudden exponential growth, but I no longer feel he is a trustworthy vendor.

I’m sure he would well fit someone with a very simple set of wants, “my FI wants a sparkly oval with rose gold and I have 4k to spend; I don’t know much about diamonds.” But not for custom projects, or detailed CADS/custom cutting. They simply can’t balance the workload or produce the skill necessary, and they are actively dishonest and manipulative to maintain a sale.

 

[diamondhoarder]

It appears, then, that it is actively part of Vijay/Ouros’s strategy to lore clients away from Etsy and the protections the marketplace offers buyers.

I know that in my experience, there was a lot of stalling and active redirection from their side. I’m not sure what they once were, and perhaps it has a bit to do with sudden exponential growth, but I no longer feel he is a trustworthy vendor.

I’m sure he would well fit someone with a very simple set of wants, “my FI wants a sparkly oval with rose gold and I have 4k to spend; I don’t know much about diamonds.” But not for custom projects, or detailed CADS/custom cutting. They simply can’t balance the workload or produce the skill necessary, and they are actively dishonest and manipulative to maintain a sale.

Im not sure that they own or cut the unique stones themselves. There was an Ouros stone I was considering and I asked for specific info about it including more images/ video. I got fobbed off with a "new" video which turned out to be same the one from their listing but just zoomed in. They also couldn't confirm questions about nuance and striation to my satisfaction. When I asked about a custom halo he told me that he would have to charge more for lower colour/ lower clarity melee than E/F VS melee

The whole thing put me off and then I noticed that the stone I was interested in had previously been offered on Ritani and Brilliance but was apparently sold a long time ago. It made me wonder if the stones he advertises are actually available at all, or whether you can end up being offered a different stone. I had read some reviews from people complaining that they received different stones to the ones they ordered. In spite of my misgivings I was keeping an eye on the listing but when the Etsy shop suddenly disappeared it made me very glad I had held back and followed my instincts.

 

[Buttercookies]

Im not sure that they own or cut the unique stones themselves. There was an Ouros stone I was considering and I asked for specific info about it including more images/ video. I got fobbed off with a "new" video which turned out to be same the one from their listing but just zoomed in. They also couldn't confirm questions about nuance and striation to my satisfaction. When I asked about a custom halo he told me that he would have to charge more for lower colour/ lower clarity melee than E/F VS melee

The whole thing put me off and then I noticed that the stone I was interested in had previously been offered on Ritani and Brilliance but was apparently sold a long time ago. It made me wonder if the stones he advertises are actually available at all, or whether you can end up being offered a different stone. I had read some reviews from people complaining that they received different stones to the ones they ordered. In spite of my misgivings I was keeping an eye on the listing but when the Etsy shop suddenly disappeared it made me very glad I had held back and followed my instincts.

Similar situation I had with him as well. He posted a salt and pepper rose cut pear for a really good price. I inquired about it but he sent me a video of what looked to be a different one. Anyway the listing was sold. However the listing came back up again the next day with the same diamond. I asked him again and he said that I would get the same diamond in the picture. I did not have a good feeling about it and he was pushy to make a sale so I stopped responding.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

I think diamondhoarder and Buttercookies are smart cookies. They listed a diamond that was on Brilliance?
I was looking for an Asscher cut moissy for a while, and even tho the Ouros/Golden Bird sites were so appealing, all these posts made me stay away.
Someone advertises, "You'll get the stone you're looking at." Is it diamondrensu? Can't remember.

 

[KeepStepping]

Similar situation I had with him as well. He posted a salt and pepper rose cut pear for a really good price. I inquired about it but he sent me a video of what looked to be a different one. Anyway the listing was sold. However the listing came back up again the next day with the same diamond. I asked him again and he said that I would get the same diamond in the picture.

No, he does not have the stones. He uses “bait” stones In order to get people to contact them. I inquired about an emerald cut diamond, and was given stats/videos of a different stone at first under the guise of it being the stone in the listing. Then told the previous stone had sold. The stone popped back up the next day, and my partner asked about it again and Vijay invited us to put down a deposit on the stone to reserve it. Since it had ”sold” the previous day, we asked to see the certificate and videos again to confirm before we put the deposit down so that those pieces of information would be documented as part of our purchase. He said he would get back to us with the information, then got back to us the next day and said the stone was sold (again) and showed us the same stone he had showed me under my initial account to try to sell us that one, instead. He never had the first stone (or if he did, it had always been sold before they posted it to their stories), and always intended to sell the second similarly spec’d stone. Both days I messaged within 40 seconds of the story becoming live because I had put his stories on “alert” while I was diamond shopping.

When I see people make note that their stones “look different,” or they don’t think they are the ones they had originally purchased, I feel pretty comfortable in my belief that they are not. The person copied above from Reddit mentioned that during the CAD process, they changed the dimensions of the stone they had purchased, and that they had to be “changed back” a few times. And that the final caliper measurements did not meet the same dimension description as the stone they had originally bought. (But did match the dimensions of the stone Ouros changed to on the CAD “errors”). He claimed his calipers were incorrectly calibrated, but had a digital caliper with the “zero” function in full display.

I don’t think that original stone existed. Or if it did, it was sold to another person, and Vijay was stalling until he could find a similar enough stone that the Redditor wouldn’t notice. There’s no reason that a plain shank, simple band solitaire should take months to “finish.” I have a feeling the incorrect sizing they went through was a back and forth stall tactic. Vijay has likely learned that sending the wrong CAD buys a few weeks worth of time.

Of course, this is all speculation. And my mistrust levels are elevated after my experience. So take this as a grain of salt.

 

[digital_bling]

No, he does not have the stones. He uses “bait” stones In order to get people to contact them. I inquired about an emerald cut diamond, and was given stats/videos of a different stone at first under the guise of it being the stone in the listing.

Really glad I didn't pursue loose with them. Thank you for sharing.

 

[bv_jewels]

This company seems to be a troublesome one -- here on reddit forum:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LabDiamonds/comments/v8x11h

They are refusing to refund the deposit order from a custom design client ... I mean seriously, why are they running their reputation to ground over an order. Brand experience means nothing to these guys?

 

[dk168]

Back in February 2020, I posted my experience with Golden Bird for a relatively simple custom work, when they offered a silver ring to be made a Moissanite stone purchase over a certain amount.

I wanted a heart-shaped Moissy in a chunky silver ring with a thick metal halo and wide band at least 4mm wide at the top.

Despite ping-pong messaging them via Etsy about the ring I had in mind, by providing photos of ring design inspirations taken from their own store, the ring they made did not look like the CAD that I finally approved.

They said the finished ring was sent to me with a pair of Moissy 3-stone huggy earrings that I ordered about the same time, however, it was not.

I requested for refund for the Moissy heart stone, and had to repeatedly chased. I eventually got the refund on the stone when I said I would file a complain through Etsy if I did not receive the refund within the next 48 hours.

Since then, I would advise against engaging Golden Bird or Ouros for custom work.

I had made purchases Ouros since then, however, they were inexpensive earrings with lab stones as listed in their listings, and the only customisation was to request for push backs instead of screw backs.

Each purchase included a CAD for confirmation.

The earrings all had different posts in widths and lengths, and with different backs.

I had hoped to purchase a bar-set 3mm Princess cut rainbow Sapphire line bracelet in 10K White Gold from them in future, as well as step cut ovals and OECs in LGDs.

Again, my enquiry about the rainbow Sapphire bracelet resulted in ping-pong messages until I put a stop to it by telling them I shall contact them when I am ready, so please stop chasing me for an answer when I would be ready to purchase etc...

However, after they tried to lure me with an unsolicited offer via WhatsApp, telling me they were planning to travel to UK with diamonds and other goodies, and would like to invite me for a viewing etc., I flipped and told them I had banned their business number and would not engage with them via WA.

They then asked if I could be contacted by e-mail and I said no, and the only communication channel is via Etsy's private messaging service.

Shortly after I posted the PSA about being contacted via WA, more and more unpleasant issues came to light in PS.

Whether I could go ahead with the rainbow Sapphire bracelet purchase with them remains to be seen. Theirs looked the best to me so far, and the price point was right for me personally.

DK