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tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,660
diamondnewbie1991|1466905520|4048392 said:
hi first time poster long time lurker here. thinking about proposing sometime in the next few months.

any thoughts on the rings below? which one looks the best for you guys

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.91-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1782749
Not liking the dark paddles in the video. Low crown isnt my favorite either.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.91-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1013810
Too deep at 62.8

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.13-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1105426
Angles arent exactly complimentary. See if you can get an Idealscope image.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.12-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-859973
Need an idealscope image. Table is slightly large.

JA can only get images for stones located in the NY area so hopefully these stones are local.

Thanks in advance!!
If I had that kind of budget I would be looking at these...
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3664929.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3664925.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-69449.htm It says eye-clean but I would talk to them about it.
 

diamondnewbie1991

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
19
I would like to spend $20k at the top end. the $25k ones are probably stretching it. unfortunately JA said that particular diamond is outside of NY and they are unable to IS it

i just found these using the search function for HCA <2.0, H / VS2 or better, no fluorescent, excellent symmetry and polish (those are my criteria) and sorted by price. not sure if that is the best way to do it. have you seen any others in the that $15-$20k price range worth looking at?

I was checking out whiteflash and their diamonds are priced well above the other sites for a given grade, but they do have the best images. do you think the premium is worth it?

I was looking at this one for example:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3508616.htm?source=pricescope
 

JDDN

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,319
I haven't had time to go through the JA stones, but that WF ACA is gorgeous. It will be amazing. Part of the premium is that they give you all the cut information up front. Takes a lot of the work out of finding a beautifully performing stone ::) .

What setting are you thinking about?
 

diamondnewbie1991

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
19
got it - thanks! in terms of the ideal table width to depth ratio, is there an optimal ratio? i've seen a bunch of wider / shallower diamonds with excellent HCA cut grading but those don't seem that well regarded.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,617
These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)


What do you mean by round halo with bridge?

Yes, Whiteflash stones cost more because they are top cut quality. I love this one:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3508616.htm?source=pricescope

But you are going to be over $20k with a good quality halo setting.
 

diamondnewbie1991

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
19
it seems like this vendor (USA Certed) is a legit dealer, they seem to have the best price.

What about these two below. I am trying to keep the diamond cost at a reasonable level so i can spend ~$5k for a good platinum setting.

http://www.kapugems.com/kgutil/search.do?method=load&stoneId=1000876199 , this one is $15k, not ideal in terms of angles but pretty close to excellent on the HCA grade
http://www.kapugems.com/kgutil/search.do?method=load&stoneId=1000890776 , this one is ~$18k, the numbers all seem right on, and the clarify is good as well

what do you guys think of these two vs. the whiteflash diamond posted earlier?
 

diamondnewbie1991

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
19
sorry for the multiple post, but how big a difference is a H color from I or J color. I have heard there isn't a huge difference, and the cost difference is pretty substantial. I was looking at the diamonds below, any thoughts on whether it would look good on a platinum setting?

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3608309.htm?source=pricescope
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3508574.htm?source=pricescope
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3664934.htm?source=pricescope

which one do you guys prefer?

thanks!!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
On color:


It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

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Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H if you DO NOT KNOW YOUR LADY'S COLOR PREFERENCES.

If you are talking fancy shapes without ideal light return (because there is no 'ideal' for EC's Radiant, etc) it's a bit different.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them side by side. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white, you only see the contrast because of the proximity. But it's very slight, you could set an F center with G sides and never tell the difference. And even H sides depending on the setting and the size of the sidestones... especially with round brilliants.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.
 

JDDN

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,319
These are the WF diamonds I like for you. The Expert Selection is a great value. Look at the dimensions in mm to see how big the diamond is, not the carat weight.

If you are getting a halo, I probably would not go lower than an I. You will start seeing a difference in color when the center stone is surrounded by the white mele in the halo.

The two you posted from kapugems could be okay, but you won't really know unless you can get an ASET or an IS image. Personally I would not buy without one, especially a larger stone like you're buying. That's the nice thing about vendors who provide ASET or IS images, you get to see the light performance of the stone.



http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3658588,3689781,3508593
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
Many posters here have given you very good suggestions. I am not going to repeat what they said but I do want to comment on if it's worth it to buy a super ideal diamond. The answer to that question will depend on your budget and/or if your eyes can really pick up enough differences between an H&A (super ideal diamond) and near H&A (ideal cut diamond that has good optical symmetries but not as precisely cut). If all you want is a beautiful diamond that is triple excellent (GIA)/triple 0 (AGS) and has the proportions in the ideal ranges, then most likely a near H&A will do.
 

diamondnewbie1991

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
19
so i've done a bunch of research and have narrowed my choice down to the following two diamonds:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.77-carat-j-color-vvs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-1064081

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3658588.htm?source=pricescope

both have excellent cuts and look like amazing diamonds, the JA one seems like a much better deal but the color is a J instead of a I. The people who have bought both said that face up, both will look white with a platinum setting under ideal cut. However, if you look at it sideways at the pavilion both will appear yellow or a "warmer" white (which I can see in the picture already) in both I and J, and it is safer to go with H or better. I am going to see a couple of Js and Is in person over the weekend and decide for myself, but in terms of the diamonds themselves, do both of these pass your smell test. Anything wrong with the JA one that would make it seem a bit more discounted? Thanks!
 

tweeter8177

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
570
They are both nice diamonds but I would prefer the WF. For me there is a big difference between an I and J color, particularly from the side profile (which is mostly what I see when wearing my ring). But it is good you are going to see both colors in person as it is personal preference! I would love a WF ACA and I believe their upgrade policy is much better than JAs. Glad to see you are doing your research!
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
tyty333 has provided some fantastic choices! I personally like the 1.82 carat I VS2 and 1.73 carat H VS2. I believe either diamond will be great. However, if I had to choose, I would go with the 1.82 carat I color. It is bigger, cheaper and the sparkles in the video look better in my eyes. I also looked at the grading reports for both diamonds and the 1.82 one has one of the best combinations of crown and pavilion angles. Moreover, I also prefer the idealscope and the hearts images for the 1.82 carat. Again, your taste may be different and you might prefer the 1.73 carat H diamond. Either way, choosing one will be like splitting hairs.

If you are planning to set the diamond in the white gold or platinum setting, then either H or I color will be fine. The slight premium you are paying for the 1.73 carat is mostly likely for the H color. Most people can't tell loose diamonds that are just one grade apart, not to mention when they are set.
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
The diamonds you listed in your last post are all top performers and you honestly can't go wrong with any one of them. 55% table isn't really that big of a difference from 56 or 57% and they are in the ideal ranges. Some people may have a preference for 56 or 57% table, but in real life I doubt that you will see a noticeable difference. When considering the cut of diamonds, all the proportions need to be taken into account.

I think that if all of these diamonds are mixed up and shown in front of you without labeling them, it will be very difficult for you to tell which one is which. Having said that, you are spending a considerable amount of money and you deserve to get the best your money can buy. Therefore, since it looks like you are considering the best hearts and arrows diamond, you will need to look at the hearts images to make that decision. I looked at all the hearts images and there are two diamonds from Whiteflash that I really like. One is 1.82 ct VS2 and 1.736 ct I VS2. If your budget allows, I personally feel that the 1.82 ct I VS2 from Whiteflash will most likely be the best option. To me, the hearts have the least amount of variations and defects, and they look a bit more uniformed. And I like the type of inclusion and location in the 1.82 ct. The feather looks small and white in the video, and it is harder for me to pick out than the 1.736 ct. However, we are looking at the magnified videos of the diamonds so even small inclusions would look bigger than they actually are. I can see that these two are listed as eye clean on their site. It might be worth it to ask them what their definition of eye clean is. Also it will depend on how good your eyes are and how close you will be looking at the diamond. For me, my eyes are trained and I tend to hold the diamonds close to my eyes. Therefore, my definition of eye clean will be different from others. I do think that both diamonds should be eye clean in the normal viewing distance.

The 1.82 ct I VS2 from James Allen is also good, but the girdle is a little too thick for my taste and I am a firm believer that a diamond should be cut to maximize the beauty, not the weight. However, most people are working with a budget, so sometimes certain compromises will need to be made.

Your preference will most likely be different and that's normal. We all have different tastes and diamonds come in different flavors, too. Go with the one that your heart desires and your wallet allows. :angel:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
If your lady wants that setting your best bet it so scale back on the stone cost. And go for a hand forged bench like Steven Kirsch or Victor Canera (who is booked right not, I have heard). That setting will run you 4-5k.

And yes, you really do want to spend that much. And you should stick to I or H color for that.

DO NOT buy one of the halos from JA. Or AND there is NO comparable setting on WF either.

Some reading for you:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-101-my-experience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-101-my-experience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/[/URL]
Why pave is fragile: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-online-retailer-for-a-custom-setting.203660/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-online-retailer-for-a-custom-setting.203660/[/URL]
Why we recommend handforging for pave:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-do-you-all-think-of-this-stone.219137/page-2#post-3981481#p3981481']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-do-you-all-think-of-this-stone.219137/page-2#post-3981481#p3981481[/URL]


I cannot stress how STRONGLY I recommend you go this route.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
ONLY one at WF that is close to what she wants but I can't recommend it due to the overly thin (and therefore not durable) shank width :

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/danhov-le112-per-lei-diamond-halo-engagement-ring-4421.htm Closest ring to the HW that WF carries. For the size stone you are looking at it will cost more than what is listed there. And you should get the platinum which is 4700 plus whatever the upcharge is for the larger stone. So you are better off going with a platinum hand forged custom ring from Steven. And I can't even recommend that one unless they customize it for you with a 1.8mm shank.

The verragio and the ritani and simon G can't TOUCH the quality of the HW halo. I wouldn't even consider a ring from them if that's what your lady wants, given your budget. And tacori is too fussy and overpriced.
 

diamondnewbie1991

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
19
ok - if micropave is too high maintenance, any alternatives that look as good or have the same "effect" but would not require as much maintenance?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
diamondnewbie1991|1467598579|4051214 said:
ok - if micropave is too high maintenance, any alternatives that look as good or have the same "effect" but would not require as much maintenance?
No. That's what she wants.

You can get it for her at the quality you need so that it wears well. You just need to adjust your stone budget down to be able to afford it.

What is your total ring budget?
 

diamondnewbie1991

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
19
20k, the stone i was looking to get (the WF 1.82ct linked above) is $16.5k so that leaves 3.5k or so for the setting. i can stretch a bit to 4k but beyond that need to adjust the diamond.
 

diamondnewbie1991

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
19
between victor, steven and leon (seems like those are the three best in class), which one offers the best value in terms of price. there is another couple of people mentioned in the link you sent: david klass and maytal hannah out in LA that are highly recommended. you have any experience with them?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Listen a halo makes stones look MUCH bigger than they are. You will not lose ANYTHING in terms of appearance to drop to 15k for the stone. And leave 5k for the setting, since you are looking at a larger stone. I would drop to a 15,000 priced stone at 7.7 mm (so about 1.7 carats).

As for value. They all price out within 100-200 of each other. So it's whatever vendor you want to work with. You will want to read reviews on here for whomever you want to work with. Leon, in particular, has several bad reviews. I have worked with Steven and would works with him again, happily. And I would work with Victor without reservation. For a 1.5-2.0 carat stone you are looking at 4,500-5,000 for the setting from any of them ( range is due to metal price fluctuations ).

Get this stone: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3408396.htm pay with wire for 14900 price .
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3496145.htm Pay with wire for 14,500 price.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3449640.htm Pay with wire for 14,700 price.

Those are all 7.7- 7.8 mm stone. Same as the one you were looking at so you lose NOTHING in size. And the color is the same.
 
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