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strawrose

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2014
Messages
841
3C76F583-AAC8-427C-98E5-925AFE2F3E4F.png
This is for a 3 ct Rubellite tourmaline. Notice that no matter the treatment the price per ct is the same. However going from Fair cutting to Excellent increases the price.
Hrm... isn’t that because it’s difficult to detect heat treatment in rubellite?
 

MJO

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
859
The reality is, only Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald carry a premium for untreated stones. For everything else there is no difference in price. Most of the stones being purchased by people on pricescope look to be under $500. It doesn’t make sense to spend $100 on a report that will state your Rhodolite garnet is a rhodolite garnet. Even on the big 3, I would not consider a report on anything less than $1000.

Good to see back MJO!
Nice to be missed. Every time I go to your site to see your latest and greatest someone else beats me no the trigger. Your facet work is wonderful.
 

kruler2113

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
94
Hi folks! Just to update you all, I will be receiving a call from BE sometime today. In the meantime, I reached out regarding the middle emerald that icephoenix posted earlier. The company will send it for GIA certification and honor a full refund if it doesn’t meet their specs.
 

IcePhoenix

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
195
Hi folks! Just to update you all, I will be receiving a call from BE sometime today. In the meantime, I reached out regarding the middle emerald that icephoenix posted earlier. The company will send it for GIA certification and honor a full refund if it doesn’t meet their specs.
Aw Yes, so happy I could be useful, I really hope the certification and stone are just what you want. Is the colour the slightly bluish intense green you want?
 

kruler2113

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
94
03FA248E-B681-4DA2-9F4E-77B9219C57EF.jpeg B3245D62-D285-4682-8E29-794471ECF4A3.jpeg 90BD0066-DF53-4E54-9549-EB1E59C63701.jpeg
Aw Yes, so happy I could be useful, I really hope the certification and stone are just what you want. Is the colour the slightly bluish intense green you want?
You should be, I would have never seen it if not for you! I quite like the color.

Alright folks, if you see this, tell me, would you pay $2920 for this stone? I will verify that it is indeed a muzo colombian emerald with low oil

Edit: my only possible reservation is it might be a hair too light. Do you think that could be just the way the camera captures it?
 
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IcePhoenix

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
195
It could be the camera, but some setting may make it appear darker if you are not 100% about it
 

kruler2113

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
94
Ok just got of the phone with BE.....

No resolution but I just made a big push. I talked to one of their managers and laid out exactly my problem

1. How I want a refund and it wouldn’t be issued to me.
2. How the layaway refund policy is not on their website and was not sent to me until just yesterday, with the receipt unsigned by me.
3.How the Federal Trade Commission Act states that vendors must have a clear refund policy that is readily available to customers.

I told her that her associates knowingly, or unknowingly used deceptive sales practices by making a sale before this information was made available to me. I told her that while it is a waste of time for both of us to go to small claims court, I would file if necessary where they would have to make a trip to Arizona on their dime.

In response the lady quoted an email I received stating I “had until July 29th to ‘make changes’ to my order.” She also stated that their team is now unable to sell the stone to someone else. I called the first thing out as unclear and the second thing as rubbish. She was speechless and said that she will consult her higher ups because based on this info, she would like to work it out.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,702
I use a few different professional price guides including maybe the most popular “The Guide”. And there is no price difference for stones other than ruby, sapphire and emerald and Paraiba Tourmaline based on treatment or location. Location or treatment for Aquamarine may mean something to you TL, but not to the trade. Of course if you are worried that you bought a natural stone, and it’s really a piece of glass, then that’s something different, but maybe you should deal with people you trust a little more than to sell you glass.

Now if you as a non trade member are trying to sell an expensive garnet, then it may help you sell it if you had a report so that people could trust you.

I would guess that if I offered an option for an AGL report for every stone I cut at an adder of $100 no one would pay the extra for anything other than ruby, sapphire, emerald.
Alexandrite is commonly synthesized and Russian origin holds a premium, so I would add that to the list. I’ve bought red spinels from trusted sources before, but it’s commonly synthesized, so I think it’s good practice to get lab reports for expensive red spinels. Blue spinels are now being diffused, so if that’s a concern to someone, then get a report, especially for what looks to be very blue material.

I do agree that most other gems like non-paraiba tourmaline, garnets (some tsavorite are clarity enhanced, but clean stones typically are not from what I know) do not require lab reports. There is very convincing synthetic aqua and also irradiated aqua that fade, so I think this is a case where knowing a trusted vendor that knows their source well, comes into play,

Bottom line, work with trusted vendors, and verify with lab reports if you feel the need based on the factors I mentioned in an earlier post.
 
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T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,702
03FA248E-B681-4DA2-9F4E-77B9219C57EF.jpeg B3245D62-D285-4682-8E29-794471ECF4A3.jpeg 90BD0066-DF53-4E54-9549-EB1E59C63701.jpeg
You should be, I would have never seen it if not for you! I quite like the color.

Alright folks, if you see this, tell me, would you pay $2920 for this stone? I will verify that it is indeed a muzo colombian emerald with low oil

Edit: my only possible reservation is it might be a hair too light. Do you think that could be just the way the camera captures it?
It looks Chivor, so I wouldn’t count on it being Muzo, but that doesn’t matter because it’s terribly windowed, and your gf wants a dark stone? That isn’t dark. In this case, origin doesn’t seem to matter because it’s not a great stone, the cutting is awful.

That being said, it’s $1k/ct, which is fair. My biggest problem is the window, and do we know if it’s moderate treatment or better? I think you can find better cutting for the same price per carat.
 
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T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,702
Most settings cause stones to darken a bit, which is why we often warn people against stones that are really dark. I definitely don't think it's too light. I think the color will be great.
It really depends on the gf. I would ask her what her ideal color is because that is a pretty light stone, and I don’t think it will darken that much in a setting, even with a heavy basket, based on my experience.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,702
Hrm... isn’t that because it’s difficult to detect heat treatment in rubellite?
Irradiation, but Gene knows his sources well. Rubellite is another good example of a stone to purchase from a highly trusted vendor that knows their sources well.
 

kruler2113

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
94
It really depends on the gf. I would ask her what her ideal color is because that is a pretty light stone, and I don’t think it will darken that much in a setting, even with a heavy basket, based on my experience.
This is unfortunate to hear. No deal has been struck yet, but he did guarantee low oil and agreed to refund my GIA fee if found to be false. I assume this applies to other stones, so I can ask for a darker stone.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,702
This is unfortunate to hear. No deal has been struck yet, but he did guarantee low oil and agreed to refund my GIA fee if found to be false. I assume this applies to other stones, so I can ask for a darker stone.
Yes, tell him you don’t want a huge window either.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,365
Ok just got of the phone with BE.....

No resolution but I just made a big push. I talked to one of their managers and laid out exactly my problem

1. How I want a refund and it wouldn’t be issued to me.
2. How the layaway refund policy is not on their website and was not sent to me until just yesterday, with the receipt unsigned by me.
3.How the Federal Trade Commission Act states that vendors must have a clear refund policy that is readily available to customers.

I told her that her associates knowingly, or unknowingly used deceptive sales practices by making a sale before this information was made available to me. I told her that while it is a waste of time for both of us to go to small claims court, I would file if necessary where they would have to make a trip to Arizona on their dime.

In response the lady quoted an email I received stating I “had until July 29th to ‘make changes’ to my order.” She also stated that their team is now unable to sell the stone to someone else. I called the first thing out as unclear and the second thing as rubbish. She was speechless and said that she will consult her higher ups because based on this info, she would like to work it out.
Yayyyyy, I think you're making progress. They are counting on you just giving up and paying them. Screw that, since they are the ones who messed up, not you.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,365
This is unfortunate to hear. No deal has been struck yet, but he did guarantee low oil and agreed to refund my GIA fee if found to be false. I assume this applies to other stones, so I can ask for a darker stone.
It really doesn't look light to me,but I readily admit that @TL has more emerald expertise than I do. The window is annoying, but wouldn't be a deal breaker to me given that your GF is strict on shape/proportion and that you're looking for a darker emerald on a budget. But that's just me
 

kruler2113

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
94
It really doesn't look light to me,but I readily admit that @TL has more emerald expertise than I do. The window is annoying, but wouldn't be a deal breaker to me given that your GF is strict on shape/proportion and that you're looking for a darker emerald on a budget. But that's just me
Luckily for me, I’m not in very much of a rush. So I don’t mind us being critical or picky if it means the best gem for my girl.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,702
I think it’s too light based on the color of the BE emerald his gf preferred the color of in the first post of this thread. There is no way that stone will darken in a setting to that shade. If the gf liked that color, and she may change her mind, it’s a viable option, although I really do think he doesn’t have to settle for such a windowed stone with that color. This lighter color is much much less per carat than a medium dark toned Columbian gem, all else being equal (treatment, carat weight, treatment, clarity).
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,365
I think it’s too light based on the color of the BE emerald his gf preferred the color of in the first post of this thread. There is no way that stone will darken in a setting to that shade. If the gf liked that color, and she may change her mind, it’s a viable option, although I really do think he doesn’t have to settle for such a windowed stone with that color. This lighter color is much much less per carat than a medium dark toned Columbian gem, all else being equal (treatment, carat weight, treatment, clarity).
Makes sense. OP: is the color of the original stone what your GF said she wants?
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,702
Makes sense. OP: is the color of the original stone what your GF said she wants?
It was actually the fifth post on the first page that I was basing my opinions on stones she might like or dislike. I apologize if that wasn’t clear to everyone, but that’s why I was pushing darker stones throughout the thread.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,702
Are they in your budget?
Does your gf only want an emerald?

I think they’re both beautiful but I prefer the step cut, so you don’t get that annoying half extinction that occurs with scissor cuts when you tilt them.

In this particular case, I don’t think you have to worry about getting a lab report. He’s a very trustworthy tsavorite dealer, and those stones are sublime.
 

kruler2113

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
94
Are they in your budget?
Does your gf only want an emerald?

I think they’re both beautiful but I prefer the step cut, so you don’t get that annoying half extinction that occurs with scissor cuts when you tilt them.

In this particular case, I don’t think you have to worry about getting a lab report. He’s a very trustworthy tsavorite dealer, and those stones are sublime.
She likes emeralds because they are green and typically emerald cut (her favorite shape). to find one that is dark enough in my price range is proving very difficult. I personally love tsavorites and certain she would love the added uniqueness of one. This to me is a really great option.

Edit: Yes, well under budget. $1,950 for the scissor and $2,300 for the step.
 
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T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,702
She likes emeralds because they are green and typically emerald cut (her favorite shape). to find one that is dark enough in my price range is proving very difficult. I personally love tsavorites and certain she would love the added uniqueness of one. This to me is a really great option.

Edit: Yes, well under budget. $1,950 for the scissor and $2,300 for the step.
Well if you think she would love them, I think it’s a great option. The step cut would also look most like an emerald to the untrained eye.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,365
Omg that emerald cut tsavorite is AMAZING! if she isn't 100% set on an emerald and just wants that amazing deep green that still has tons of light return then I'd get that one in a hot second. Sorry, I thought she only would want emerald itself, but this is the perfect color and cut, AND under budget.
 

Mrs_Strizzle

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 14, 2018
Messages
480
To give myself some more options Mr. Bruce Bridges got back to me about some tsavorites. 578D5800-5F7E-4F84-BA57-F5FFF08FB7F7.jpeg 46A5FF4E-7B4C-41EE-924C-C0807508D701.jpeg
I must say, they are incredible and just the color my gf loves. I especially like the scissor faceted one, very unique.
On my opinion, this one is WOW! It's the only stone in this thread that made me react that way.
 
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