Swap-A-Roo = Not for You?

[maplefemme]

Thank you everyone for your support and constructive imput and thoughts, I really appreciate it, ladies

 

[maplefemme]

Thank you everyone for your support and constructive imput and thoughts, I really appreciate it, ladies

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Amys Bling|

I think PSers by nature are fickle- change their mind- want to have it all!! So its natural for things to change hands. As long as it was something that fit my budget- was a good deal- and something I realy wanted, I don't care who or how many others have owned it previously.[/quote]


...are you referring to a piece jewelry or a bf/husband??

 

[mrssalvo]

maplefemme, I hate to see you forced to keep a stone you don't really love Would it be worth it to put your stone back on consignment and try to just recoup your $ and start over?

 

[movie zombie]

or add $ of your own to pay the difference for now on sale stone?

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="TravelingGal|

For the record, for me it would have to change hands more than twice in a short period for me to consider it a HPP (Hot Potato Piece) and back off.[/quote]


so the seller's title should read...I have a HPP for sale??...

 

[mrssalvo]

or add $ of your own to pay the difference for now on sale stone?

I was thinking this too!

 

[maplefemme]

maplefemme, I hate to see you forced to keep a stone you don't really love Would it be worth it to put your stone back on consignment and try to just recoup your $ and start over?

I have to see it in person now, whenever I get my official proposal
If I really don't like how it is in the setting then that might be an option. I know it seems to face up bright and Victor says its very lively. My concern is that the ring is custom and made to fit an 8.6mm stone, I'd have to find a stone to fit that, not impossible but it would require a decent ct weight to fit that.
Making another ring wouldn't be an option, it was a significant investment and I want to keep it, Victor put a lot into making it for me.
I'm just worried that in certain lighting, the S/T color stone in contrast to the single cut melee (albeit, Victor was able to source me lower "I" color) on the basket, which is quite intricate, will look bad from the side view.
Only way to know it is to get it, and maybe, if it looks too off (I did expect warmth with L/M, I knew it wouldn't be close to colorless) then I could replace it with some "unmentionable other" until we could sell it and find a suitable replacement.

At this point I just have to see it, it's just that the more S/T stones I see (DBL has a couple) the more I worry about the color difference between L/M and S/T and how the final ring will look.

Grace has always been great to work with, this wasn't my first purchase from JbEG, hence me not posting about this earlier or naming them in my first few posts in this thread, but then it was obvious some PSers knew who I was speaking of so it was a moot point after then.

I hope at the end of the day that everything looks great, if not, I'll figure something out.


Thank you again.

 

[maplefemme]

or add $ of your own to pay the difference for now on sale stone?

I was thinking this too!

I offered, actually, even before this when I first went and found something over budget but he didn't accept and just said he'd work hard to get me the ring and stone I wanted.
The man treats me like solid gold, truly, he's always doing sweet things for me, however, he's your typical type A, former army sergeant, and he's steadfast on him buying me the ring, it's a pride thing.

 

[movie zombie]

i'm hoping you're going to be posting that you worried for nothing, you're head over heels in love with the ring and the stone and you feel silly for having worried so much.....that is my hope and wish for you.

a man that treats you like gold and who over shot his budget to please you, well, that's worth more than the difference in the color is worth.

 

[maplefemme]

i'm hoping you're going to be posting that you worried for nothing, you're head over heels in love with the ring and the stone and you feel silly for having worried so much.....that is my hope and wish for you.

a man that treats you like gold and who over shot his budget to please you, well, that's worth more than the difference in the color is worth.

Thank you, your words really put it into real perspective, very true, I'm very lucky.

 

[Imdanny]

No comment on the transaction that led to this discussion but isn't there a reason PSers recommend AGS or GIA. That's just a pathetic grading, wrong, not even close.

 

[pregcurious]

I hope your ring looks beautiful Maplefemme. I think it's very sweet that your fiance worked so hard to get you it.

 

[maplefemme]

Hi all,

I know this is a thread jack, but since we're the vendor in question I felt it prudent to post, as there are 2 sides to every transaction.[b] I agree, and with all due respect, I just want to clarify a few things.[/b]

The ring in question was graded internally by me, as well as by 2 respected jewelers. We grade in accordance with EGL standards because this is more or less the industry standard with antique cuts. We are very transparent about this. Maplefemme asked us to send the stone to GIA, which we happily did and we were very surprised at the grading. We disagree with it, but it is what it is. We feel that with lower colored stones, EGL is more consistent. For uncerted stones, we do our best to accurately represent them, and we offer an unconditional inspection period for buyers to utilize independent appraisers. In the case of layaways, however, this inspection period is not available.
Victor sent it to GIA for me. I asked if you could send it to GIA, GIA would forward it to Victor after they graded it, if directed to do so and would save us an additional insured courier fee, but you weren't comfortable doing that. Victor offered to have one of his associates pick the stone up from you, but it was stated you are a home based business and were not comfortable with one of his associates picking it up. It was sent to Victor and he sent to GIA the same day for me.

Because this was a layaway piece (and a lengthy layaway at that) and a consignment sale, a refund was not an option. At the time, we had no other stones of comparable size for the price they had paid. To be frank, the original price they paid for this stone was very good even given the lower GIA grading. The discounted price they chose in order to keep it makes it a steal. I only say this because it simply wasn't possible to find a similar sized stone, whiter, for the same price. We couldn't even come close, and we did try. Obviously, though, that doesn't change the fact that the diamond didn't grade as expected.
Why this comment, Erica? I asked for a 4 month layaway for this stone, Grace's response to that was take 5 months if we like, that it was flexible.

As for the stone that maplefemme liked that later went on sale, she certainly had (and continues to have) the option of trading her diamond toward this or any other piece in our inventory. I believe it was the 2.67ct OEC, and for that stone even the sale price greatly exceeds the purchase price of her diamond. But we did offer her fiance this option and he informed us via email that he preferred a partial credit to keep the stone they bought, and that spending any additional money for a different stone was not an option (he was VERY clear about this). Off the top of my head, the price of the 2.67 was $7k+ over what they originally paid for their stone. He expressed no interest in considering this option, so we never got into pricing or negotiations, and many weeks later, after this transaction was closed, we marked it on sale by sheer coincidence.

No we never got into pricing and negotiations, maybe we are gullible in that regard, we thought that $7,000 was the best you could do for us, especially given the circumstances of the substantial inconsistency of the color grade on the stone we purchased from you and being told you would do everything in your power to make it right.
Before my SO emailed you about this matter I informed him the other option was to spend $7,000 more for a stone that weighed over 1/4ct less, two clarity grades lower, and was a K color - one color grade higher than what our stone was sold to us as. He said no to that amount, and negotiating that amount never occurred to either of us, we thought that was your best. Had we known you would have accepted $2,000 less...
Please keep in mind something, Erica, $2,000 might not seem like a lot to you, for some people it is their entire budget for a stone and it would have made a difference at the time in this case, had we known.

In any case, had we known how unhappy she was with her diamond we would have continued working with them to trade it in for something more suitable. Last we heard, she was thrilled that her fiance accepted the partial refund because she loved the stone no matter what the papers said. So we are quite stunned to hear that she's so unhappy with it - truly it's the first we've heard about it.

I never said I didn't care what the papers said. I voiced many concerns about the GIA color grade, my disappointment with it, including my concerns about having to replace it if it ever gets lost with another S/T graded stone.
I still have those concerns, I said to Grace, however, that I would leave the final choice up to my SO in regards to settling it with you, after all, he's paying for this and allowed me free reign in picking everything, the finances are up to him and I accept this and his choices, being thankful that he's been very generous with his budget already and trying to stay positive and enthusiastic about the diamond despite my worries.

As for representation of uncerted stones, please note that our experience with Maplefemme and GIA has made a strong impression on us. Since her transaction, we've implemented a policy that all JbEG-owned loose diamonds will be sent to EGL, and all consignment goods are required to include either a lab report or an independent appraisal before we will accept it. We take these things very seriously - we're human and make mistakes, but we've already taken measures to ensure that this type of situation doesn't happen again, not as a result of this thread, but was done months ago out of a desire to constantly improve our business and our clients' experience.

Maplefemme, we would be happy to take it back as a trade in towards something else from our inventory, and will honor the sale price on the 2.67 if that's the stone you want - we would have happily done this 2 months ago but we were told it's not an option for you both. In the end, we want all of our clients to be thrilled with the pieces they buy from us (and NEVER EVER "stuck with" anything) and we will work with you to achieve this. When all of this happened, we told your fiance that we would do ANYTHING to make this right, and he requested the credit. I'm sorry that you feel you were forced to accept a partial refund, but it was at his request that we did so. We opened the door to resolve the situation, he requested a credit, and we complied. We really thought you were both happy with this resolution, as well as with the diamond.

I was not forced by my SO to accept a partial refund. I was offered two stones for replacement that I discussed with my SO prior to him contacting you, the one mentioned above for $7,000 more and one even smaller and ungraded as yet.
We didn't want the smaller ungraded stone, he could not afford to pay another $7,000 for the other stone, and again, wasn't aware it was a negotiable price, that this was your best offer, so he declined to pay more for either candidate offered to us and immediately asked for a partial discount instead.

I do wish you had reached out to us in the weeks following the partial refund, and we would have said the exact same thing to you privately. In any case, do let us know what you want to do.

I appreciate your offer, Erica. I ran this by my SO and he said he's at a loss as to why we were not offered that stone at the sale price in the first place, when we were told you were doing everything in your power to make it right.
He feels he's getting his chain yanked, he's not a haggler. If someone tells him this is their best deal, especially when they are trying to fix a business transaction that went wrong, he takes them at their word and either takes it or leaves it.

This topic was about buying pre-owned PS items, I was sharing my experience and opinions and intentionally did not mention the seller/PS member, as I feel it is not her fault or mention you being the vendor either, until it was apparent people had guessed anyway.

You have stated you learned a lot from this experience and it has caused you to make positive changes in how you run your business, that's a positive outcome.
I have also learned a lot from this transaction and take responsibility for my choices and next time they will be better, more educated and informed ones, also a positive.

 

[maplefemme]

I hope your ring looks beautiful Maplefemme. I think it's very sweet that your fiance worked so hard to get you it.

Thank you, pregcurious, me too!
Yes, he's worked very hard and I'm so grateful, he's a good man and does what he can, I could not ask for more

 

[maplefemme]

No comment on the transaction that led to this discussion but isn't there a reason PSers recommend AGS or GIA. That's just a pathetic grading, wrong, not even close.

I will make sure any subsequent purchases are either AGS or GIA graded before...In-house is not sufficient, regardless of who it is and will never be as professionally respected as GIA or AGS.

I question the theory that GIA is exceptionally harsh on old cuts or that EGL is just slack.

 

[iugurl]

Hi all,

Because this was a layaway piece (and a lengthy layaway at that) and a consignment sale, a refund was not an option. At the time, we had no other stones of comparable size for the price they had paid. To be frank, the original price they paid for this stone was very good even given the lower GIA grading. The discounted price they chose in order to keep it makes it a steal. I only say this because it simply wasn't possible to find a similar sized stone, whiter, for the same price. We couldn't even come close, and we did try. Obviously, though, that doesn't change the fact that the diamond didn't grade as expected.
Why this comment, Erica? I asked for a 4 month layaway for this stone, Grace's response to that was take 5 months if we like, that it was flexible.

I didn't like that comment either. I am not sure why that is relevant to the conversation. I think that comment came from a negative place. I am not a jeweler/store owner, but for a LARGE, expensive purchase, I don't consider four months THAT long, but what do I know??

I know not to buy from them on layaway/consignment because regardless of grossly misrepresented a piece is, they will not give a refund.

 

[Maisie]

Maplefemme, this whole thing makes me feel really sad for you. I think the stone should have been properly graded before it was listed for sale. JBEG are responsible for the listing and the details. I think you should be allowed a refund as this stone was clearly misrepresented. Also, saying that it was a deal even for the lower grade doesn't make any difference. You paid for a L/M stone and thats not what you received.

 

[slg47]

Maplefemme, this whole thing makes me feel really sad for you. I think the stone should have been properly graded before it was listed for sale. JBEG are responsible for the listing and the details. I think you should be allowed a refund as this stone was clearly misrepresented. Also, saying that it was a deal even for the lower grade doesn't make any difference. You paid for a L/M stone and thats not what you received.

first of all...Maple I am sorry about this whole mess and I hope you absolutely love your ring.

q though...did she pay for a GIA graded L/M stone or an EGL graded L/M stone?? many of the old cuts are graded by EGL and I am curious if this was sold as L/M by GIA standards?

 

[decodelighted]

What does "properly graded" mean? Shopping for antique stones is different than off-the-shelf, plentiful Round Brilliants. And there is a certain amount of "buyer beware". When folks choose to buy uncerted stones that have been in-house graded and benefit from the cost-savings -- they also accept a greater degree of risk.

It's not like a RB transaction -- where there are dozens of like stone that can be swapped out at a moments notice w/o significant loss to the seller.

There's a saying in the Watch community that is applicable here on PS too I think --- "you don't buy the (watch) ... you buy the vendor." Yes, you might get "better" prices from small mom & pop shops and Ebay and Diamond Bistro .... BUT you don't get as much PROTECTION or recourse etc.

The Vintage Stone world is fraught with all sorts of issues that a lot of PSers aren't as used to dealing with. I'm sorry for MapleFemme's sitch and glad she posted about it -- so others can learn by example. Very much hoping that she falls in love with her unique, beautiful stone/setting when it arrives -- DESPITE the differing opinions on color grade etc. And *how* much of a deal they got in the big scheme of things.

 

[Maisie]

Maplefemme, this whole thing makes me feel really sad for you. I think the stone should have been properly graded before it was listed for sale. JBEG are responsible for the listing and the details. I think you should be allowed a refund as this stone was clearly misrepresented. Also, saying that it was a deal even for the lower grade doesn't make any difference. You paid for a L/M stone and thats not what you received.

first of all...Maple I am sorry about this whole mess and I hope you absolutely love your ring.

q though...did she pay for a GIA graded L/M stone or an EGL graded L/M stone?? many of the old cuts are graded by EGL and I am curious if this was sold as L/M by GIA standards?

Well considering it wasn't graded by EGL or GIA before sale I can't see how this is relevent. Erica at JBEG and 2 jewellers graded the stone but it had no offical grading until after the sale. They listed and sold the stone as an L/M and it was actually graded as an S/T, thats 6 or 7 colour grades down.

 

[decodelighted]

The stone was sold as *uncerted* ... with an *opinion* as to color. The sale wasn't contingent on GIA grading. And all of this could have been solved by SEEING THE STONE IN PERSON before buying it! If it looks too low in color for you .... DON'T BUY IT. Much less have a multi-thousand dollar ring designed around its exact specs.

IMHO there is *fault* on both sides. An unfortunate situation all around.

 

[maplefemme]

Maplefemme, this whole thing makes me feel really sad for you. I think the stone should have been properly graded before it was listed for sale. JBEG are responsible for the listing and the details. I think you should be allowed a refund as this stone was clearly misrepresented. Also, saying that it was a deal even for the lower grade doesn't make any difference. You paid for a L/M stone and thats not what you received.

first of all...Maple I am sorry about this whole mess and I hope you absolutely love your ring.

q though...did she pay for a GIA graded L/M stone or an EGL graded L/M stone?? many of the old cuts are graded by EGL and I am curious if this was sold as L/M by GIA standards?

Thank you slg...

I take responsibility in that regard, for my assumption. It wasn't stated on the listing whether it was by GIA or EGL grading standards, I went on the assumption that it would at least be accurate or very close because I was told this stone was graded alongside a GIA Master stone set.

 

[Laila619]

This is why I probably won't ever buy an antique stone, even though I adore them. Too much uncertainty and most of the time, no return policy.

 

[maplefemme]

The stone was sold as *uncerted* ... with an *opinion* as to color. The sale wasn't contingent on GIA grading. And all of this could have been solved by SEEING THE STONE IN PERSON before buying it! If it looks too low in color for you .... DON'T BUY IT. Much less have a multi-thousand dollar ring designed around its exact specs.

IMHO there is *fault* on both sides. An unfortunate situation all around.

I completely agree, I am responsible for my part and I wouldn't buy sight unseen again, regardless of reputation, that was my choice and I take the blame for that.
I was told the stone was graded to a GIA Master stone set, but at the end of the day, people are human and whilst they may have access to such equipment, it doesn't necessarily make them qualified beyond an opinion outside the GIA lab.

Unfortunate, yes, but lesson learned.

 

[Maisie]

So you were told it was graded alongside a GIA master stone and it still came out 7 grades lower? I honestly don't think this is good enough. But thats me and its not my stone

 

[maplefemme]

Maplefemme, this whole thing makes me feel really sad for you. I think the stone should have been properly graded before it was listed for sale. JBEG are responsible for the listing and the details. I think you should be allowed a refund as this stone was clearly misrepresented. Also, saying that it was a deal even for the lower grade doesn't make any difference. You paid for a L/M stone and thats not what you received.

Thank you Maisie,

I would like say that had it been a grade or two off them I would not have minded as much. I know grading, be it lab or in-house, is an opinion but some are more trained to give an opinion than other's and I took a chance on a vendor's opinion based on a great reputation.
I was shocked at the large discrepancy, however... I do not believe GIA is that off on grading.

At least JbEG has changed their policies since this and this won't happen to anyone who buys from them again.

At the end of the day, if you want to be sure, you can't accept anything other than a reputable lab report.

 

[Mayk]

I would just like to say.. IMO it is very sad where this thread has gone... I think it should be closed out.... by the moderators... I think every story has two sides and this one has been aired out quite a bit dragging everyone down into the mud.... not sure it's really necessary.

Now.. for those that think I should keep my thoughts to myself.. OK... I respect that.. I probably should.. you're right.. but I just couldn't help myself.. I HIT SUBMIT!!!!!

 

[TravelingGal]

I would just like to say.. IMO it is very sad where this thread has gone... I think it should be closed out.... by the moderators... I think every story has two sides and this one has been aired out quite a bit dragging everyone down into the mud.... not sure it's really necessary.

Now.. for those that think I should keep my thoughts to myself.. OK... I respect that.. I probably should.. you're right.. but I just couldn't help myself.. I HIT SUBMIT!!!!!

1) you shouldn't keep your thoughts to yourself (they aren't offensive, after all)
2) Yes every story has two sides, and both had a chance to represent
3) PS should be a place where stuff like this IS aired. Educates us more on what can happen in the big bad gem world.
4) I don't think anyone is being dragged through the mud. It's just another good reminder that buyer beware. In fact, I think both parties have been quite civilized.
5) PSers love having opinions about stuff like this. It's the life of this forum, always has been, always will be.

 

[Circe]

The stone was sold as *uncerted* ... with an *opinion* as to color. The sale wasn't contingent on GIA grading. And all of this could have been solved by SEEING THE STONE IN PERSON before buying it! If it looks too low in color for you .... DON'T BUY IT. Much less have a multi-thousand dollar ring designed around its exact specs.

IMHO there is *fault* on both sides. An unfortunate situation all around.

I completely agree, I am responsible for my part and I wouldn't buy sight unseen again, regardless of reputation, that was my choice and I take the blame for that.
I was told the stone was graded to a GIA Master stone set, but at the end of the day, people are human and whilst they may have access to such equipment, it doesn't necessarily make them qualified beyond an opinion outside the GIA lab.

Unfortunate, yes, but lesson learned.

While I can see how there might be "fault" on both sides ... in MapleFemme's case, I don't think the fault in question is not paying international taxes and fees to see the stone, or, for that matter, not taking a trip across the border. Possibly she and her fiance can be faulted for not pushing back harder to get a resolution they were happy with ... but even there, I feel like it's a cultural thing. I come from a culture of happy hagglers: my husband finds the concept unfathomable. So, YMMV, and it's kinda on the seller to go a little above and beyond to find a tenable solution if they're the one's who've put a foot wrong by grossly misrepresenting a stone.

(And, dude, I've taken the GIA diamond grading course, and L-M to S-T is a big difference. If there was a brown modifier, maybe I could see it, but otherwise, nuh-uh.)

(Sorry for talking about you and not to you, MF - I hate it when people do that to me. But I did want to get that out of the way.)

I agree that buying old cuts is different from buying RBs, but that means the dealer's policies need to be different, too. I just bought an old cut under similar circumstances: I saw it, fell in love, and asked the dealer if I could put down a deposit; he said sure, you've got four months, and once the stone's in hand, you have a two week return period. Knocking out the return period because of a layaway policy that you, the dealer, have set and/or agreed to is ... unpalatable ... to me. It's having your cake and eating it, too, and it's not professional.

I think this, more than anything else, to get the thread back to its original topic, is one of the big risks of buying swaparoo pieces, or even of shopping the Pre-Loved section: on eBay, you have feedback. Hell, on DB you have feedback! But here, we're tight-knit enough that nobody wants to make a stir by "calling out" people involved in bad situations. Just check out the brouhahas and differing opinions we've gotten on some of the "hypothetical policy question" threads we've seen lately, where people take sides.

My suggestion? A feedback area that is NOT up for discussion. You buy from somebody, you leave a comment, and while they can respond if they see fit, nobody else needs to flap their gums over it ... but they can keep it in mind before they buy from (or sell to) the same person in the future.

ETA: Crosspost, not a response to Mayk or T-Gal ... though I guess our minds were running along parallel paths, albeit in opposite directions.