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msop04

Ideal_Rock
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ES is expert selection, correct? Which means that it is not their branded WF cut above but still a very good cut correct. But what does ps stand for? If you dont go for a branded cut, then how do you know how well the cut is, by looking at the certificate correct.
Yes, that's correct. PS is Premium Select. (ACA, Expert Section, and Premium Select are all included in the upgrade program).

You know if it's well cut by looking at the specs on the report, images, and/or videos. You can also have a representative answer any questions you might have. I would trust those at WF (not true for some).
 

stonewell

Brilliant_Rock
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ES is expert selection, correct? Which means that it is not their branded WF cut above but still a very good cut correct. But what does ps stand for? If you dont go for a branded cut, then how do you know how well the cut is, by looking at the certificate correct.
Yes, that’s correct - ES are simply a near miss to an ACA and gorgeous by every measure imho. PS are their Premium Selects, graded by GIA and also beautiful.

If you’re hunting on your own, there are a number of tools to help you assess - the lab reports aren’t enough on their own. You would need to request advance imaging, such as Idealscope or ASETs. Not all vendors can accommodate these requests but many do. ID Jewelry, for example comes to mind. They also are wiz’s at working within specific budgets.

I own super ideals too and love them, but happened to hunt for my ‘perfect’ stone for my engagement ring. I used both types of imagery to confirm it was an excellent performer - and was able to get much more bang for the buck.... I have a thread on here where PSers helped with my evaluation to give me peace of mind in my selection.
 

stonewell

Brilliant_Rock
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I don't think the ES or PS stones are branded... only ACA.
Ahhh... bad assumption on my part! I did so because they also qualify for the upgrade benefits no differently than ACAs.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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Ahhh... bad assumption on my part! I did so because they also qualify for the upgrade benefits no differently than ACAs.
Exactly!! These are great stones that also qualify - you can always upgrade to an ACA in the future, if that is the goal.
 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
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Feb 12, 2020
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I asked her if she would consider an upgrade later and she would prefer not too. Wants to keep the original. She sentimental like that. She is not being picky, I am. She is not expecting much but she will will love it soooio much.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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I asked her if she would consider an upgrade later and she would prefer not too. Wants to keep the original. She sentimental like that. She is not being picky, I am. She is not expecting much but she will will love it soooio much.
In the event she doesn't ever want to upgrade, I'd go with a diamond with the most bang for the buck. I'd be on the phone with Yekutiel at ID Jewelry... like 5 minutes ago. LOL
 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
In the event she doesn't ever want to upgrade, I'd go with a diamond with the most bang for the buck. I'd be on the phone with Yekutiel at ID Jewelry... like 5 minutes ago. LOL
I would like to upgrade, would make some decisions easier.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
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Then I'd choose WF. :)

(...but didn't you say she was sentimental and wouldn't want to upgrade??)
Agreed. If she doesn't want to upgrade, then I would buy the largest diamond you can afford now. This is about her preferences as she will be wearing it.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Just to be clear....ACA, ES and PS are all "brands" within the WF ecosystem of stones. The common denominator is that they are all in-house stones that WF vets and provides full imaging upon. Also, all 3 brands are included in WF's awesome upgrade program. So you can start with an ES or PS and upgrade to an ACA or vice versa.

To break down further:
  • A Cut Above, ACA = AGS 000 cert + true H&A super ideal meeting these specs
  • Expert Select, ES = AGS 000 cert, but a "near miss" ACA for one reason or another
  • Premium Select, PS = GIA XXX cert, but either a "near miss" ACA (sometimes it only misses because it's GIA certified vs AGS certified)
Important things to remember. ACA is their primary brand, and has the most selection & availability. So it's much more likely that you can enter "1 carat G VS1" and get a result.

ES and PS are hit & miss, so it's not as easy to define those specifics. Maybe they just have an H SI1 or F VS2. Who knows. You just have to be open minded.

More importantly, you need to closely examine each ES and PS to determine why they didn't meet the grade. For instance, there is a 1.70 G VS1 for about $13k that has been around for months. It's a 60/60 with 33/41 combo IIRC. Sometimes, there are very, very minor differences and other times there are larger differences. I would agree ES and PS provide more confidence and assurance to a buyer because of the advanced images, etc that WF provide. But I wouldn't slap a seal of approval on them just for being ES & PS. Of course, I'm picky as most you know, so maybe that is just my preference. But I believe in analyzing a stone to make sure it's a good fit, regardless of vendor & brand.

 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
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Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
Then I'd choose WF. :)

(...but didn't you say she was sentimental and wouldn't want to upgrade??)
Yes I would like too but not her. So I have get it right. Right? I would like to upgrade to a 1.5 carat in the long run. But knowing her. She wouldn't let me change her ring
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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FWIW, I started throwing together a spreadsheet so the OP could compare options. He was all over the place so I tried to be rather diverse. I primarily was working through WF and had started on HPD and was going to move to BGD and finally some XXX options from RC, B2C, BN or other virtual dealers.

My initial glance is you don't get a magic bump to 1 carat without making some adjustments to color & clarity. Sure, super ideals carry a premium, but I think it's a small expense in this case. Maybe worth the peace of mind and "easy button" approach to the OP. That's for him to decide.

Either way, here's a screen cap. Also I'm attaching the Excel file. Someone else can pick this up if they want. I won't have time the rest of the day, or probably the weekend for that fact.

CaptureCompare.PNG

Sorry...can't attach Excel, so uploaded to Google Sheets.

 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,399
Yes I would like too but not her. So I have get it right. Right? I would like to upgrade to a 1.5 carat in the long run. But knowing her. She wouldn't let me change her ring
Just my 2 cents, but if you think there is even an inkling of a chance of an upgrade then you'd be better off to bite the bullet now and get a great upgrade program.

Here's why....buy a XXX stone with crap upgrade policy. You will likely have to spend double the amount, or worse yet be stuck trying to trade or sell the original stone outright. Or possibly keep and start fresh if you aren't happy with the dollars you can get.

Most used stones sell for 50 to 70 cents on the dollar. Maybe less if you trade.

Ask nearly any woman on here, and they will tell you that diamond shrinkage syndrome (DSS) sets in faster than a hooker going down on 50 cent night. A good upgrade program allows you the flexibility to slowly upgrade over time where it makes sense for your budget. Or maybe if you gamble on a lower color and she doesn't like it, she's able to swap for a better color but near same money. Or if you buy her a 0.70 G, maybe she realizes she can live with a 1 carat K.

Just more flexibility with less out of pocket expense IMO.
 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
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Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
So double checked. No chance of an upgrade. She said if that is the case just buy her another ring like for an anniversary. But this one is going to be her main one. Like I said, she is sentimental. Lol
 

stonewell

Brilliant_Rock
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1,056
Yes I would like too but not her. So I have get it right. Right? I would like to upgrade to a 1.5 carat in the long run. But knowing her. She wouldn't let me change her ring
Upgrading doesn’t always mean you have to trade in. Many feel strongly about keeping their original engagement stone - but it doesn’t mean she would turn down adding another... I know I wouldn’t! :lol: Since many find their financial means improves throughout life, you may be able to easily upgrade to a 1.5ct by adding an anniversary ring.

So, it sounds like you need to clarify this and confirm where she lands on it. Then you can decide if it’s worth pursuing a strong upgrade policy or not.
 

stonewell

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Jan 19, 2013
Messages
1,056
So double checked. No chance of an upgrade. She said if that is the case just buy her another ring like for an anniversary. But this one is going to be her main one. Like I said, she is sentimental. Lol
Haha... looks like we posted at the same time. I’d definitely check out ID Jewelry, and ask to speak with Yekutiel, just to get an idea of what your budget will allow. You may be pleasantly surprised.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,756
Just to be clear....ACA, ES and PS are all "brands" within the WF ecosystem of stones.
I was under the impression that only ACA was their branded cut... and the PS/ES stones were simply stones they had in-house that they labeled "PS" or "ES", according to specs (not stones they cut themselves)...
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
9,756
Haha... looks like we posted at the same time. I’d definitely check out ID Jewelry, and ask to speak with Yekutiel, just to get an idea of what your budget will allow. You may be pleasantly surprised.
I concur... talk to Yekutiel and tell him you want "PS picky" diamonds - he'll know very well what you mean. :) He's been known to find unicorns!
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,756
So double checked. No chance of an upgrade. She said if that is the case just buy her another ring like for an anniversary. But this one is going to be her main one. Like I said, she is sentimental. Lol
Maybe you could get her a blinged out eternity for an anniversary, or some diamond studs... I can appreciate a woman who wants all the things. ;-)
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 18, 2013
Messages
6,406
I put my other two into my sapphire ring, so I had to get another one lol
@whitewave - pls forgive me for this, as I know I've asked you before, but - what size finger are you wearing that .64 on? I actually think it looks delicate and lovely on you, not too small at all!

I love a petite, elegant soli!
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,639
So double checked. No chance of an upgrade. She said if that is the case just buy her another ring like for an anniversary. But this one is going to be her main one. Like I said, she is sentimental. Lol
In that case, definitely go with IDJ and see what they can find
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
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4,399
Looking at triple X's I've seen some 1.15 carat J's. Still decent proportions but the video looked off.

Real question is -- where are we on color?

I'm going to assume eye clean clarity is good. No need to pay for perfection that is only appreciable on a lab report or under a scope. That girl has a 9.5 finger and you need to shift the clarity money to boost carat/spread IMO.

Actually if you are open to it, a 60/60 or Tolk stone with larger table (58-59) and shallow CA/PA combo (34/40.6) might help you squeeze a little more spread out of the same carat weight giving a larger diameter stone.
 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
FWIW, I started throwing together a spreadsheet so the OP could compare options. He was all over the place so I tried to be rather diverse. I primarily was working through WF and had started on HPD and was going to move to BGD and finally some XXX options from RC, B2C, BN or other virtual dealers.

My initial glance is you don't get a magic bump to 1 carat without making some adjustments to color & clarity. Sure, super ideals carry a premium, but I think it's a small expense in this case. Maybe worth the peace of mind and "easy button" approach to the OP. That's for him to decide.

Either way, here's a screen cap. Also I'm attaching the Excel file. Someone else can pick this up if they want. I won't have time the rest of the day, or probably the weekend for that fact.

CaptureCompare.PNG

Sorry...can't attach Excel, so uploaded to Google Sheets.

Thank you for taking the time to put this together for me. The one carat sizes you put up are nice and affordable. I like #1 and #3 even though 3 is under a ct the fire looks awesome and the price even better. The only concern is the k color on whether that will be too big of a contrast on the setting.
#9 is a great all around choice.

#10 is more around what i was initially looking at but at the top of my budget and possibly smaller CT than what I want after taking everything into consideration. But how can you not just fall in love with it. Same goes for #11.

The problem is on video the k color is very noticeable and I know it might not be the same in person when placed in a setting but still unsure of any contrast. This is why I went to a jewelry store to see first hand but that didn't pan out. I will see about stopping at another place tonight or this weekend to get more EYES on it.
 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
Looking at triple X's I've seen some 1.15 carat J's. Still decent proportions but the video looked off.

Real question is -- where are we on color?

I'm going to assume eye clean clarity is good. No need to pay for perfection that is only appreciable on a lab report or under a scope. That girl has a 9.5 finger and you need to shift the clarity money to boost carat/spread IMO.

Actually if you are open to it, a 60/60 or Tolk stone with larger table (58-59) and shallow CA/PA combo (34/40.6) might help you squeeze a little more spread out of the same carat weight giving a larger diameter stone.
Not sure on color yet as I dont have any real eyes on it, only video and pictures. Not sure if we are actually real life color sensitive. I was looking mainly on g color to match most settings and eye appeal without spending extra on def. Plan on going to some stores to get a better idea. Thank you.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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GIA XXX 1.17 J VS1 @ $4,910

57 table, 61.6 depth, 35 CA, 40.6 PA, 75 LGF & 55 stars

It's probably pushing the color, and definitely the budget but it's also the largest stone so far. And it has very promising proportions. Love the VS1 clarity, although it's probably overkill. I'd like to down grade the clarity and boost the color, but unfortunately that stone doesn't exist, at least on RC which is where I'm searching.

This is the one I mentioned earlier has a weird video to me. The still picture doesn't portray well defined arrows, and the video has a peachy/brown tint to it. Although in fairness, maybe it's the supplier/cutter (Sheetal Group) as this stone also gives off the same appearance.


The link to the lab report is also messed up. I believe GIA # 6342597598 is the correct lab report and I've attached.

If you are interested in this stone, I'd share the GIA number with Yeukitel. He can probably access it and if you bring it in he will do a full array of images (ASET, IS, H&A, etc) along with a detailed SARIN report which will tell us considerably more about the stone.

6342597598.png

Edited to Add:
Forgot to include the HCA.

CaptureHCA.PNG
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,399
I know computer monitors and images don't always give accurate results, but this may help you. Remember, that color is graded from the body/pavilion of the diamond.

Tint is much less noticeable in the top view of the diamond. This is especially true in ideal cut stones where you get edge to edge light return and things can look brighter as a result. Yet if you catch a glimpse of the body/pavilion you will more easily see the tint.

1581720454926.png

1581720496259.png

1581720523503.png


 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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May 11, 2012
Messages
8,934
Colour is a REALLY subjective thing some people actually don't notice it much at all and all some people see is the colour..... so honestly you have to work out what she or you can or can't live with first colourwise and go from there on the size versus budget....

Most people start noticing colour around a J/K however some people really notice it at around an I and a small number of people notice it at a H..... and then there are those that unless the stone is overly yellow or tinted don't notice it at all.
 
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