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sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
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If I were you, I wouldn't spend the extra for a branded super ideal diamond. I just don't think the difference in price is going to be worth the size you'd give up. You'll be able to get a larger diamond if you just stay within AGS Ideal parameters. This is usually how a PS thread goes...

OP: "...I want to propose to my girlfriend, budget is $4K..."

PS: "...buy a super ideal!!"

Super ideals are great, but I'd rather have a great GIA XXX in a larger stone.

I also agree with @rainydaze to not get a K color. In a 1 ct diamond, I wouldn't go below J.

Just my 2 cents.


ETA: I think an I/SI combo would be great and budget friendly.
Except this isn't the "typical" thread you reference. Post #1 the OP says he's between BGD and WF. Post #18 he says cut is king.

No one is shoving super ideals down his throat.

That said, it is possible some cost savings or size gain could be realized by doing as suggested. We need to search and find him some real options though.

One major advantage any of the super ideals have over hunting down a XXX is it's an "easy button" solution. Good upgrade program, ideal performance, etc.

No thinking or guessing required, which is something he said he was tired of doing. So perhaps a super ideal meets his needs very well in that regards.

Just depends how you view it.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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Except this isn't the "typical" thread you reference. Post #1 the OP says he's between BGD and WF. Post #18 he says cut is king.

My point was that if you read enough threads on PS, you would think that a super ideal is by far and away better than an ideal cut diamond. This isn't true. For those who have a much more generous budget, I can see entertaining the idea of going branded...

No one is shoving super ideals down his throat.

The vast majority of responses include recommendations for ACA/CBI/BG branded stones.

That said, it is possible some cost savings or size gain could be realized by doing as suggested. We need to search and find him some real options though.

One major advantage any of the super ideals have over hunting down a XXX is it's an "easy button" solution. Good upgrade program, ideal performance, etc.

No thinking or guessing required, which is something he said he was tired of doing. So perhaps a super ideal meets his needs very well in that regards.

Are we not PS?? This is what we do. Of course it's easier to find super ideals without any additional work, but that comes at a price.

Besides, WF's upgrade program isn't exclusive to ACA, for example.

Let's try to use our knowledge to help this gentlemen find a wonderful diamond that will be a great cut, larger than has been suggested, and within budget.


Just depends how you view it.
I'm at work, so I can only be online until the next patient... if I can get a chance, I will suggest some stones.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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I'm thinking if she is used to a Walmart diamond, going ideal (let alone super ideal) she is going to be super happy. Not knowing anything about her, I would stick with ideal cut, I think it is very safe to go down to an H, SI and get the bigger size/lower cost diamond. (Places like Walmart usually have i color, I1, I2 clarity diamonds.) If there is a diamond you like in the SI level clarity, can always have the vendor pull and check in person whether it is eye clean or not.

I have purchased both from Whiteflash and High performance diamonds, would recommend both without reservation.
(ps I have a CBI j color. BUT- I'm not color sensitive. Not knowing your partner I wouldn't go below H just in case she is color sensitive).

eta I like these
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4166395.htm

And I would find out if she HAD to have the style listed. Then buy the stone from a recommended vendor, and the setting she likes, have them set it. If she is open to settings, have her pick out one from the vendor you like. I think if you buy from Whiteflash this gives a similar vibe (integrated relatively low set head, details of side diamonds) AND ritani settings are really nice quality. Honestly if you paired this with either of the stones, I would be shocked if she wasn't blown away https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/ritani-1rz1508-diamond-engagement-ring-5248.htm
This. All of it.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,868
All other things being equal, go for size and a great cut. These are the two most noticeable attributes of a diamond.
Most people can’t tell the difference between a G and an I colour especially if just looking at it without a reference.
Clarity at even SI can be eye clean, gradings are done at x10 and some types of inclusions are hard to detect with unaided eye. Obviously any black carbon specks are more noticeable.
Size matters, it’s what your eye registers first
Cut is very important because you are buying a diamond for it’s beautiful sparkle.
Don’t over think it, there are dozens of diamonds out there to choose from.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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The vast majority of responses include recommendations for ACA/CBI/BG branded stones.
LOL, because he was asking about WF vs BGD and then later on said he was going to be in town where HPD was located.

There may be plenty of threads where you can beat this dead horse, but I don't believe this one of them.

Are we not PS?? This is what we do. Of course it's easier to find super ideals without any additional work, but that comes at a price.

Besides, WF's upgrade program isn't exclusive to ACA, for example.

Let's try to use our knowledge to help this gentlemen find a wonderful diamond that will be a great cut, larger than has been suggested, and within budget.
I've helped a boat load of people find gorgeous stones. Some super ideals, some not. I'm more than happy to jump in and start making recommendations, but I think it's prudent we LISTEN to the OP as well.

What I've heard is he doesn't know where he's at on color preference. He's confused and frustrated with the selection process. And his last post about dropping by HPD, he probably prefers to see the stones with his eyes.

What I've heard others say is bigger is better. And pretty much color doesn't matter.

Just my 2 cents, but if we shouldn't shove a super ideal down his throat, nor should we shove our preferences for size or color down his throat.

When the OP provides some clarification where he wants to be, I will start recommending.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
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Oct 11, 2011
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I bought my wife a 0.867ct BGD H VS2. We both see tint. It's not hideous, but I would likely buy higher color due to our ability to see color.

The thing is color is just so subjective to each person. Some can't see it, others can see the tiniest variance. The right answer depends on the visual sensitivity of the purchaser and wearer, but mostly the wearer.
Let's be clear that it's not the ability to see color that is the problem, but the fact that you are bothered by it. I can see color variation just fine, I'm just not bothered by it. Don't conflate the two things, as they are separate.

Also I got the impression OP was after mainly superideals as well. I think if he can see CBIs in person, that is great, and if he can't, he should make the decision off which vendor has or can get the setting he wants.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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LOL, because he was asking about WF vs BGD and then later on said he was going to be in town where HPD was located.

There may be plenty of threads where you can beat this dead horse, but I don't believe this one of them.



I've helped a boat load of people find gorgeous stones. Some super ideals, some not. I'm more than happy to jump in and start making recommendations, but I think it's prudent we LISTEN to the OP as well.

What I've heard is he doesn't know where he's at on color preference. He's confused and frustrated with the selection process. And his last post about dropping by HPD, he probably prefers to see the stones with his eyes.

What I've heard others say is bigger is better. And pretty much color doesn't matter.

Just my 2 cents, but if we shouldn't shove a super ideal down his throat, nor should we shove our preferences for size or color down his throat.

When the OP provides some clarification where he wants to be, I will start recommending.
I get what you're saying, but I also think it's prudent that we take the OP's budget into consideration. Most won't notice the difference in a great cut GIA XXX/AGS Ideal and a branded stone. Clarity should be eye clean (whatever each person's meaning of that is), and color should be "white enough" for the OP. What they will notice is size.

I was trying to encourage the OP that there are dozens of super sparkly stones out there that aren't a branded cut. Color is subjective. Size is not.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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4,398
Color is subjective. Size is not.
Are you trying to make me laugh? Cause, you did.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

We all know where you stand on size....ROFL

 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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On a serious note, when you start considering budget and the stone AND setting, we need to know a little more about the deal that HPD is offering with a FREE setting.

Depending on the value of the setting that can be chosen, and if it fits the needs/desires of the OP's girl then this changes things drastically.

For instance, a 0.82 E VS2 for $4,950 -- but if the free setting works, that's an all-in price. He will be hard pressed to get that size, color and clarity even in GIA XXX stone for the same money.


So many variables and options right now. Need to skinny it down so he can make a choice.

FWIW, I would have used a lower color & clarity as an example, but that was the largest they had around the $5k mark. It's the setting that equalizes the game, assuming it works.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Dec 3, 2011
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9,756
On a serious note, when you start considering budget and the stone AND setting, we need to know a little more about the deal that HPD is offering with a FREE setting.

For instance, a 0.82 E VS2 for $4,950 -- but if the free setting works, that's an all-in price. He will be hard pressed to get that size, color and clarity even in GIA XXX stone for the same money.


FWIW, I would have used a lower color & clarity as an example, but that was the largest they had around the $5k mark. It's the setting that equalizes the game, assuming it works.
This is a good point... the free setting really gives a big cushion for the stone. It would be nice if they had something in the G/H/I range though. Might be worth reaching out to Wink to see what he has in the pipeline.
 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
Wow, you guys are so on top of this more than me. I truly appreciate all this knowledge and advice.
The reason for going for super ideal is because that is all I read online. Spend your money on cut first and go from there. I went to a jewelry store to see the good stuff first hand but they didnt have any really. Pictures on the websites only go so far.

But yes I am frustrated and confused still at times. I really dont want to settle. At this point I am leaning towards WF just because they do seem to have more in stock and more for the money. still on planning on going to HPD in March just to keep options open.

The problem is I got all my info from reading online which helped tons, but with no real experience like you I feel very undecided/ overwhelmed on what to do. So yeah walmart is really the only place I have experience and I certainly dont want to fail. Honestly I quit looking to take a break but ready to hit it again.
Very happy I found you guys.
 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
On a serious note, when you start considering budget and the stone AND setting, we need to know a little more about the deal that HPD is offering with a FREE setting.

Depending on the value of the setting that can be chosen, and if it fits the needs/desires of the OP's girl then this changes things drastically.

For instance, a 0.82 E VS2 for $4,950 -- but if the free setting works, that's an all-in price. He will be hard pressed to get that size, color and clarity even in GIA XXX stone for the same money.


So many variables and options right now. Need to skinny it down so he can make a choice.

FWIW, I would have used a lower color & clarity as an example, but that was the largest they had around the $5k mark. It's the setting that equalizes the game, assuming it works.
That there is a beautiful diamond right there, some issues I am having is that I dont know wether to give up on color and clarity or even cut at this point. Now I am thinking on cutting back on the setting for now instead and maybe try for a better setting later. Some of the diamonds here that are mentioned here are Great choices.

Initially I wanted a super ideal g vs1 around .75ct because I felt that was a good middle of the road diamond for my budget without going into higher categories. But a bigger diamond would be nice as mentioned and BG/WF seemed to me the best place to go. So all this going back and forth is not helping you guys to help me. So sorry for all the back and forth. Makes me wonder if working with someone in person like HPD would be better since I will have the opportunity to be there personally. 2:19 am and here I am. Ugh.

But honestly that HPD diamond looks great along with some WF metioned. It is at the top of my budget without setting. But if they offer free settings maybe that is the way to go and have her pick her setting later. Only problem is she wanted me to pick everything and totally surprise her. She still thinks I am going to WalMart eventually. Lol
 
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scoobertin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
You
I'm thinking if she is used to a Walmart diamond, going ideal (let alone super ideal) she is going to be super happy. Not knowing anything about her, I would stick with ideal cut, I think it is very safe to go down to an H, SI and get the bigger size/lower cost diamond. (Places like Walmart usually have i color, I1, I2 clarity diamonds.) If there is a diamond you like in the SI level clarity, can always have the vendor pull and check in person whether it is eye clean or not.

I have purchased both from Whiteflash and High performance diamonds, would recommend both without reservation.
(ps I have a CBI j color. BUT- I'm not color sensitive. Not knowing your partner I wouldn't go below H just in case she is color sensitive).

eta I like these
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4166395.htm

And I would find out if she HAD to have the style listed. Then buy the stone from a recommended vendor, and the setting she likes, have them set it. If she is open to settings, have her pick out one from the vendor you like. I think if you buy from Whiteflash this gives a similar vibe (integrated relatively low set head, details of side diamonds) AND ritani settings are really nice quality. Honestly if you paired this with either of the stones, I would be shocked if she wasn't blown away https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/ritani-1rz1508-diamond-engagement-ring-5248.htm
This is very nice choice/combo. What I like is the price point on the diamond is where I want it without sacrificing the setting. Actually getting more on the setting. The setting is something I know she would love I did not see that one when searching. It is a little more than what I was looking for but I love it and know she would too. That low set head is something she likes. The only thing is the clarity. I know that it is eye clean and it is all in my head, something I have to work out, lol. But that is definitely something that I had in mind.
We are getting really close, love this combo. Love that HPD diamond mentioned earlier, the hpd diamond is higher than I want but so nice. I need to find another 1k.
 

lydial

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
423

And they are offering a free setting right now - there are a lot of stuller options and they can also add engraving to a few of them- Melissa was willing to work with me on the setting and have me pay the difference! I'd def reach out to them. Great customer service and an awesome upgrade policy.
I personally would buy the E CBI, or this F: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9233, and start looking at Stuller for ideas, they have hundreds of settings. CBI are the easy way in, you are guaranteed a perfect looking diamond. Done.

The free setting was extended from Christmas. It probably won’t be available in March. You may need to pay the surplus if you get pave or fancy, that was how we purchased my Christmas pendant. If she likes sort-of vintage with some pave and milgrain here is a sweet dainty option: https://www.stuller.com/products/122948/?groupId=193214&categoryId=21346&recommendationSource=CategoryBrowse

if a look with more size presence is what you are after you can do a halo, or a cluster will really give you a lot more presence. But the melee are going to cost a premium. https://www.stuller.com/products/build/122092/?groupId=119075&recommendationSource=productpage&recommendationType=recommendation&recommendationId=110689#/mounting-options

Here are 2 that are reminiscent of the Lagato:



...you can have fun searching. And, most jewelers can spec Stuller.If you are thinking about the E call them and ask them to put it on hold.
 
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sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,398
That is a very good option. I am not opposed to buying used either. I prefer new but good deals are are good deals.
This is a solid option, and a pretty fair price. Also it's for sale by a PS member so they can probably share more details with you if asked.

Anytime you buy used, it's probably worth using an appraiser to inspect the ring on your behalf. Life happens, and sometimes damage occurs that the current owner doesn't even know exists.

I see the lab report is dated 2004, so it's had 16 years that it may have picked up a bruise or bump.

Another way is to have the stone certification updated.

In comparison to the new stones you are looking at, this stone is graded AGS1 on cut quality, which is excellent. Also I see polish is 1 excellent. In AGS certification, ideal 0 is the best you can achieve. You will notice all the newer stones have all ideal 0 ratings.

This isn't the end of the world by any stretch. Just pointing out differences. Also, due to the lab report date this stone would have been graded under the older metrics and not the newer ones of today. The thread below talks about it.


That said it's still vastly far superior to anything from Walmart. And the price is discounted and includes a platinum solitaire. Plus like anything used, it's an asking price so negotiation may be possible.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
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As I get time today I will try to put together a few options for you to consider.

FYI, when I was shopping for my wife, the stone was the easy part. She wanted anything but ordinary when it came to the setting and I drove myself and many people here nuts trying to figure it out. In the end I did a custom setting for her and it turned out perfect.

As guys I believe we are sometimes more critical with this stuff than our ladies are on us about it. One thing I've tried to improve is my ability to LISTEN to my wife, lol.

What I mean is that while I wouldn't shop at Walmart for a diamond, I would go 007 on her and surprise her as she wants. Does she have an Instagram or Pinterest account where she has ideas about what she wants posted? Does she have a family member or friend she confides in about those details that you can stealthily use to gain insight?
 

Arcadian

Ideal_Rock
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Sep 17, 2008
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6,496
OP can only tell you that to stay safe in the color department, you might want to stay about an I color stone. A well cut stone can sometimes trump size.

I say this only with a few caveats.

If she wants a big stone, get a big stone. You might have to sacrifice on the cut a little (drop down to a 3EX instead of a super ideal) and you might need to be ok with some inclusiions (long as they don't kill your stone that is) but you can save some money that way.

If you want to see wait to see super ideals, then do that. As long as I've been here, I will tell you what I think, because I'm a colored stone person: Don't pay for what you can't see. If you get to see a super ideal and it knocks your socks off, then you'll be paying that premium. If you KNOW you're going to go see these things in person, then you owe it to yourself to just see in person.

I say one more thing. Every CBI I've seen (not too many) I fell in love with. To me, to my eyes, they are recognizable. I don't have any (yet) but I'm in save mode for them (earrings)

So with that, baby steps. Everyone here has put a lot of info in this thread, good info. Your budget is really going to determine which way you can actually go.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,756
Wow, you guys are so on top of this more than me. I truly appreciate all this knowledge and advice.
The reason for going for super ideal is because that is all I read online. Spend your money on cut first and go from there. I went to a jewelry store to see the good stuff first hand but they didnt have any really. Pictures on the websites only go so far.

But yes I am frustrated and confused still at times. I really dont want to settle. At this point I am leaning towards WF just because they do seem to have more in stock and more for the money. still on planning on going to HPD in March just to keep options open.
This is exactly what I thought... the thing is, you can get an amazing cut that is not a branded super ideal diamond. I think WF is a great choice... but I wouldn't turn my nose up at their non-ACA stones (PS and ES). With these diamonds, you may be able to get a higher color, larger size, or both for the same price... and it will still be AMAZING.
 

Polyhex

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2003
Messages
44
If I were you I would try to get near the 1ct mark with an H-I SI1 ideal but not branded cut from a vendor with a great upgrade and return policy. She will be blown away and the stone will be large/visible enough to generate compliments for years to come, which will make her feel special and loved each time.
 

JaneDough

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
41
Hi Scoobertin!

Do you know her finger size and what her preference for coverage is? If it’s already been posted sorry! It might help in deciding if you want to go bigger and step down in some of the other parameters.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,756
If I were you I would try to get near the 1ct mark with an H-I SI1 ideal but not branded cut from a vendor with a great upgrade and return policy. She will be blown away and the stone will be large/visible enough to generate compliments for years to come, which will make her feel special and loved each time.
WF's PS or ES would be perfect for this...
 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
Hi Scoobertin!

Do you know her finger size and what her preference for coverage is? If it’s already been posted sorry! It might help in deciding if you want to go bigger and step down in some of the other parameters.
Yes her finger size 9.50. So a larger size might be better, she doesnt want anything that looks like a Superbowl ring. Where there is so much there that the diamond gets lost.
 

scoobertin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
22
WF's PS or ES would be perfect for this...
ES is expert selection, correct? Which means that it is not their branded WF cut above but still a very good cut correct. But what does ps stand for? If you dont go for a branded cut, then how do you know how well the cut is, by looking at the certificate correct.
 

stonewell

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 19, 2013
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Yes her finger size 9.50. So a larger size might be better, she doesnt want anything that looks like a Superbowl ring. Where there is so much there that the diamond gets lost.
Knowing her ring size now, I’d have to agree - size of the stone should be an important consideration too. Here’s a visual comparing a typical .70ct to 1ct on a size 9.5. So, I’d aim for an ES or PS from WF if you’re set on getting a branded stone. BEEF246C-95B3-4A11-95E6-302025AAFEEC.jpeg
 
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