Stillbirth thread?

[sparklefan]

Circe, I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[Vancity]

Circe, my deepest condolences on your loss.

I found this. I hope it brings you comfort...

~Allyson

A Mother''s Prayer & Affirmation ~ After the Loss

In this time of loss, I call upon my spirit within to guide me to my strength, so that I may find peace and completion.

I will use this strength to demand of myself, and others, my need to grieve completely, for this will be my first step to healing.

During my time of grief, I will seek guidance, not only from my inner spirit but from loving persons who may offer wisdom and comfort.

I need to understand, that the soul as well as the physical body needs healing, and to pay attention to this. I will learn to accept that the soul may never heal completely.

I will learn to live not in fear, and once again, see beauty in my world, and purpose in my existence.

In spite of my new knowledge that things happen that cannot be controlled, I must call upon the places within me that tell me I do have control over much of my life, and use this control to aid my healing.

Let me recognize the gift in my ability to conceive, and carry life, however briefly.

Let me take joy in my ability to love so deeply, and the desire to nurture a soul unbeknownst to me.

Let me find healing in the belief that this soul knew my love for it, and that that love helped it to pass to another place.

Let me honor this short life, not only with my love, but in finding meaning in its existence.

Let me recognize this meaning in not only my ability to survive, but in my fullest appreciation of all the moments motherhood will bring me, along with my deeper compassion and sisterhood to other women who''ve experienced loss.

Let a part of this soul be reflected in the spirit of my future children, born or adopted, so that I may know it through them.

I will listen to and trust the place in my deepest heart that tells me I will once again be reunited with this soul, and will fulfill the need to hold it in my arms.

I will help myself to feel comfort in the knowledge that there is a star in heaven that belongs to me.

by Stacey Dinner-Levin

 

[Mara]

Circe, I hope you are doing as well as can be expected and taking care of yourself and hub. I think about you daily.

I appreciate that you are coming back to update this thread, because it''s a help to others who could very well have something similar happen to them. Some might feel that being interested in your story is using this horrible situation for my own ''benefit'', which is a nasty thought, and they should be ashamed of themselves...I certainly am.

BUT if what happened to you and your darling little baby can make another mother''s decision or the KNOWLEDGE they might glean that much more complete, then let''s hear about it. And since this is your thread, feel free to post whatever you want about parvo or CMG which I have never even heard about....is it related to what happened?

Continued best wishes.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 8/16/2009 12:31:31 PM
Author: Mara
Circe, I hope you are doing as well as can be expected and taking care of yourself and hub. I think about you daily.


I appreciate that you are coming back to update this thread, because it's a help to others who could very well have something similar happen to them. Some might feel that being interested in your story is using this horrible situation for my own 'benefit', which is a nasty thought, and they should be ashamed of themselves...I certainly am.


BUT if what happened to you and your darling little baby can make another mother's decision or the KNOWLEDGE they might glean that much more complete, then let's hear about it. And since this is your thread, feel free to post whatever you want about parvo or CMG which I have never even heard about....is it related to what happened?


Continued best wishes.

Circe - I am so sorry for your loss, and for having to go through this... *hugs*

Mara - I don't think anyone is taking offense to the fact that you are wanting to gain knowledge about the situation - but rather at your lack sensitivity regarding the poor timing in asking Circe these questions right now - during her time of crisis, when she is probably feeling pretty bad already...

 

[Circe]

Hey, guys, and as always, thank you. Any of you who''re worried for me, don''t be -writing this out is really a kind of a godsend. And, Mara, you''ve sort of pegged just *why*: my situation blows, in large part because I have no reasons, so writing it out allows me to, A) play sleth into my own circumstances, and B) hopefully put pertinent inormation out there for other women who have suffered similar things, or are doing their damndest to avoid them in the first place. The CMG, btw, (known as cytomegalovirus when it''s a home) is a really common and generally harmless variant of the herpes strain. Around 50% to 80% of the population carries it, with no ill-effects. Those who do feel symptoms just generally feel a bit under the weather for a few days. BUT, if you contract it during the second trimester, it can be deadly for the fetus, or have really serious reprecussions down the road. I''m sort of faintly horrified that they don''t test for it like they do for rubella at the start of each pregnancy so as to at least warn you to take exra precautions (i.e., frequent handwashing, not sharing utensils with small children, who tend to be the most frequent carriers). I still don''t know if this is what got me, but it still seems like the likeliest contender in the absence of anything going wrong with the amnio, there being anything congenitally off with the baby.

I''ll post more later (today is the "anniversary" of the birth, and I''m sure I''ll need the support: in the meantime, my best friend flew across the country to make sure I''m okay, and we''re going to go and lay in the sun and just, you know, heal. And if you have any specific questions, don''t be afraid to ask! Will scroll through the thread and look. In the meantime, WL, you asked if we''d picked a name. We had. We were going to call him Oden. I''m actually more pissed off at the white power movement than usual: I was looking for an Odin rune to use in making a little memorial piece, and almost all of them are associated with hate and bigotry. Like I really needed another reason to loathe those guys .....

 

[somethingshiny]

Circe~ My continued prayers and positive thoughts for you and your DH.

I do know a bit about parvo virus in humans (which btw, is NOT the same parvo in dogs and cats). The most common display of parvo is called "fifth disease", many children get it, it looks like they''ve been slapped on the face and/or neck--kind of rash like. Adults can get it too, although most have had some version during childhood and therefore become immune. In adults, joint pain is often a symptom. You don''t usually need to have medical attention and lots of parents actually miss the "disease" all together.

If a pregnant woman comes in contact with a child with parvo, the fetus can be affected, and it can cause miscarriage in extreme cases. (or, I assume, later causing stillbirth)

Parvo is so common in children that it is nearly impossible to ensure that you have no contact and rate of fetal distress related to the virus is very low.

I doubt that any of this information will help, but I feel the more knowledge the better.

More hugs to you.

 

[Mara]

Circe...I'm glad my Q's aren't too painful. It may seem selfish to some to be interested in your story, and that's fine, people can think what they want, but not many places talk about this subject, it is pegged as 'taboo'...and given my situation, of course it is curious. Doctors tell you one thing, people's experiences tell you another. As for poor timing, unfortunately the kid inside me won't stop growing while I read up!

I appreciate that you are being so open about this. I can't imagine how you must be feeling, but I ache for you daily. It is hard when there is not a pinpointed 'reason' yet for what went wrong. Parvo/CMG, very interesting, and yes it is disturbing that the doctors don't test for more or even talk about it. Are the stats for that extremely rare? I'll have to look into it...never even heard of CMG. I know that dogs get vaccined for Parvo but not sure if it's a lifetime thing...and it can be very common on the grass and things like that where dogs play. I didn't know that it was transferrable to humans, somethingshiny. Circe, what did your Dr say about this development? Are you on meds for the virus?

Happy to hear you have a gal pal to spend some time with, enjoy it as much as you can. Good luck with finding a comemorative item for your little boy.

 

[kama_s]

Date: 8/16/2009 2:58:53 PM
Author: Mara
As for poor timing, unfortunately the kid inside me won''t stop growing while I read up!

Circe, I''m so so so sorry about your loss. Lots of hugs and love to you and your hubby.

Mara, I think you should make another thread for your questions. I understand you have questions but this thread is just not about you or your baby. Your insensitivity amazes me.

 

[neatfreak]

Re: CMG- In my part of the country at least it''s called CMV...so for those of you researching it make sure you look under that abbreviation too.

Circe-you are amazing. I cannot believe the grace and strength you hold. Oden and other children you will have are all so lucky to have you as a mother.

 

[drk]

Circe - I''m so glad that your best friend has been able to come and be with you this weekend. She''s probably just what the doctor should have ordered. Someone to talk to or not talk to as the need strikes you, and who can support you in whatever way you need. I do hope that you get some answers as to why this tragedy occurred, but it''s nice that your doctor was able to reassure you that it doesn''t seem to have been due to the amnio. As much as we always think there must have been something we could have done differently to prevent the bad outcome (I know I have with my two miscarriage), there usually isn''t. Take care - I''m sure many of us are continuing to think of you.


I don''t understand why people are beating on Mara here. Circe is being incredibly open and eloquent about what she''s went through and is going through, and seems to me to be saying that she isn''t offended by Mara''s questions. Since Mara''s amnio is tomorrow, how can her timing be anything other than it is? Circe strikes me as an incredibly strong person, and if she didn''t wish to answer certain questions, I''d imagine she would be able to ignore them (correct me if I''m wrong, Circe!).

(BTW for anyone who''s confused, the abbreviation for cytomegalovirus is CMV, if you''re intending to look it up on Dr Google...)

 

[Circe]

DRK, you hit the nail on the head. I don''t mind being asked about any of this at all. I feel occasionally guilt that I''m not responding to each and every kind and well-intentioned post, but I''m assuming that you all understand, and I''ll definitely come back periodically once I''ve finished going through the whole description of how things happened. But in the meantime, no one is making me feel bad or anything other than, well, useful, in a period when I otherwise feel sort of impotent and withered and purposeless. So, to avoid any misunderstanding - THANK YOU, to those of you whom are trying to be sure I am protected, and in exactly equal measure, to those of you who are making me feel like I can give as well as take.

Mara, both CMG and Parvo (and this isn''t the doggy parvo - completely unrelated strain) are apparently so *common* in adult humans that the strong reaction is the rare thing. Most adult women would already have been naturally innoculated for them, just by contact with their communities (ironically, it is the most privileged class of women - white and highly educated - who are at the most risk, as they''ve had the least contact with small children in the course of daily life). I think my dr. is testing me for them because otherwise, she has to admit that she just has no damned idea: the baby was fine, the aftermath of the amnio was fine, so ... if it has to be something, one of these 2 highly unusual viruses might do. And, nope, there are no curatives for them: if I have one, I just have to sit through it. I''m on painkillers, Premarin (a scary-sounding synthetic estrogen that ought to help heal my uterus to give me the best chance possible at a successfull pregnancy the next time around), and antibiotics because I started running a fever and feeling pain after my first post-birth examn, and she figured better safe than sorry.

Now, for a nice restorative glass of ... something (am trying to weed off the painkillers, but am still allowing myself the indulgence of drinks throughout the day provided that they are weak-ass drinks).

 

[Maisie]

I''m so sorry to hear about your loss Circe. My heart goes out to you and your husband.

 

[Skippy123]

I am so so sorry for your loss Circe, my heart goes out to you.

Date: 8/16/2009 3:48:46 PM
Author: kama_s

Date: 8/16/2009 2:58:53 PM
Author: Mara
As for poor timing, unfortunately the kid inside me won't stop growing while I read up!

Circe, I'm so so so sorry about your loss. Lots of hugs and love to you and your hubby.

Mara, I think you should make another thread for your questions. I understand you have questions but this thread is just not about you or your baby. Your insensitivity amazes me.

I agree completely

start your own thread.

 

[Circe]

So, it''s been a week since my son passed: this seems like as good a time as any to try to tease out a little bit of why, and how.

When we got to the hospital, I was reminded of a quotation from Spider Robinson (paraphrased): hopsitals are bad places. They starve you, and they hurt you, and they take away your pants. Mine was a very nice hospital, all things considered, though I''ll refrain from making a recommendation from it, just because ... well, given the association, who the hell would voluntarily choose to go there? And if you already were, you might feel sort of superstitious dread. So, suffice it to say that it has tastefully decorated, darkly lit private rooms in labor and delivery, and televisions with DVD players (do most people think enough ahead to bring their own? I did not, and after 12 hours or so, my husband went out and bought some movies, which we wound up never watching), and the kindest and most considerate nursing staff. If by some weird coincidence an L&D nurse named Rita (day shift) or Seta (night shift) is reading this now, THANK YOU for making a generally nightmarish experience tolerable. I''ve been planning to buy a card for their ward, but I haven''t gotten around to it yet.

Once I got there, they had me change into my horrid little hospital gown, and I hung out for an hour or so and did the basic intake forms, and waited for the doc. She gave me my first dose of Cyotec around 8. We talked about that a bit: I''d heard some very nasty things about how induced labor provided exceptionally strong contractions, and how with Cyotec in particular I''d heard of there being a risk of uterine hyperstinulation, and, at the end of the day, it boiled down to her, as a doctor, firmly belieiving that it was the quickest and safest way to get the baby out of me, and me as a patient measuring what she was telling me against what I''d read for myself. With a less-good doctor, I might have argued harder: with this one, I trusted her. She inserted the first dose straight-away, told me not to get up to go to the bathroom or wander around for at least an hour to an hour and a half, until the medicine kicked in, and warned me that I''d probably be feeling some contractions within an hour or an hour and a half, too. She and the nurse on duty told me right rom the get go not to be a hero an just have the damn epidural the second I felt like I needed it.

After an hour or so, I started having mild cramps, but not what I would have classified as contractions. I do not have what I think of as a high pain tolerance, though maybe I''m wrong, and maybe I do: comparatively speaking, I would say that the stupid blood-pressure band tightening on my arm hurt more than most of what I felt for the next 8 hours. Over the course of those eight hours, they increased in frequency from about once every half hour to once every 10 minutes or so. Around 3, the doctor came in to check me, and gave me my second dose of Cyotec. That, btw, HURT LIKE HELL. I would not have needed or wanted an epidural before then, but at that point, damn, was I glad that they let me have morphine. Off for a drinky-break now, and back soon, but in the meantime .....

I say this with a great deal of love and gratitude: NO ONE ON THIS THREAD HAS OFFENDED ME. I am a mean shrew of a woman, people! If anybody was irking me or overstepping the bounds of propriety, I would be the first to say so. If circumstances were other than they are, and I was still pregnant, and some survivor was offering to talk me out of my fear? I''d be grateful to them. I rather like being able to offer up any info. that might assist others, all things being equal ....

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 8/16/2009 3:48:46 PM
Author: kama_s

Date: 8/16/2009 2:58:53 PM
Author: Mara
As for poor timing, unfortunately the kid inside me won''t stop growing while I read up!

Circe, I''m so so so sorry about your loss. Lots of hugs and love to you and your hubby.

Mara, I think you should make another thread for your questions. I understand you have questions but this thread is just not about you or your baby. Your insensitivity amazes me.

Exactly.....I cant believe that quote on this thread!!!!! I am without words actually.

 

[Mara]

Circe, I had no idea there was parvo for humans...I've only heard it related to dogs. re Premarin, I know you are excellent with the research, but my girlfriend had a miscarriage and didn't want to take the drugs that would have helped her heal a bit more quickly (not sure if it was Premarin) but she was feeling back to 'normal' physically in about a month. I hope that you are feeling better long before that, both physically and emotionally. Did you get some sun today?

As for that quote that was so nicely snipped...the point there was that as DRK so succinctly said...timing has something to do with it. Would it have been potentially better to wait 2-3 weeks to ask about more information from Circe? Of course! But my amnio is TOMORROW. And *again* she has said she doesn't mind my original questions multiple times. So why do all of you???? It's baffling. Stop being hall monitors, stop gossiping behind the scenes, and please stop imposing what you feel is appropriate on me. It doesn't matter to me, and it's just a derail from the original thread.

 

[ChargerGrrl]

Circe, I am very sorry for your loss. It''s hearbreaking to read about it, but I do want to thank you for the information you''ve provided. I''m actively TTC-ing and am in heavy research mode. I knew i''d heard about the condition you mentioned, as it was just featured in my local ABC newscast. I found more information on their website and sent myself the story: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/health&id=6952561

I''m sorry that I cannot offer any words of comfort, just know that I''m thinkiing about you and sending lots of good vibes. Please take care of yourself!

 

[vintagecushion]

Circe, I don''t post often, but I just wanted to add my support and best wishes for you. I am a woman in my thirties, also working in an academic field, who has been TTC this last year and your posts naturally caught my eye in this forum. Like others, I''m sure, I''m admiring your strength in these horrible times and hope that you will find peace. I don''t doubt that you will, and I wish you and your husband the best.

 

[Kaleigh]

Circe,
I just wanted to say, you amaze me. I think you coming here and telling your story will help many.

I have been praying for you. I send prayers of comfort, strength and hope.

Take good care... I am not alone in saying you have touched all of us, and we are all praying for you.

 

[taovandel]

I''m a little late to this thread, but Circe you are one amazing and strong woman. I''m terribly sorry for your loss.

I wanted to know not only how you are doing but also how your husband is doing...

I''m glad to hear that your nurse experience was a comfort to you at such a horrible time.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Circe, reading your story breaks my heart... I feel a kinship with you based on some of the details of your life that you have shared. I am also a professor, also somewhat pagan (my real name is a celtic goddess), also a shrew of a woman

. And I adore Spider Robinson and Circe is my favourite character from the Song of Ice and Fire. So your loss really hits home for me. I can't help but imagine how I would feel in your shoes, and I suspect I wouldn't maintain my humour and perspective as well as you have. I hope through it all you can see the humour in your encounter with the nurse when you checked into the hospital. It is macabre, but hilarious none the less. I always find it funny when "straight/normal" people cannot fathom the details of a more unconventional life. And I love the name Oden! I am sorry that it has been hujacked by evil people

I don't know if it helps, but when I was pregnant and worried so much about losing the baby -- don't we all? How can we not worry about that? -- something that helped me a lot was knowing that being pregnant, with all its joys and sorrows, was somethng that connected me to my female ancestors in an unbroken line going back millenia. I thought of all those women who had suffered so many losses for so few live children, and I thought that if they could get through it I could to. My paternal grandmother lost 2 children and birthed live 6 others. My favourite historical period is Tudor england, so the stories of Ann, and Catherine, and Mary and all the many many losses they suffered, and survived, helped in some dark way. It is tragic, so taboo to discuss, and heartbreaking... but losing babies is all too common. Most women who are pregnant multiple times will lose a child before he or she is born.

So for me, the commonality of the difficult and scary aspects of motherhood-- potential or real loss, the pain of childbirth, the postpartum despair that can accompany a newborn -- helped me when I was scared, or worried or felt that I couldn't cope. Maybe it will help you too. I hope so.

Many hugs to you and your husband. You will get through this, you will have more children if you choose to do so. Your ancestors did, and so can you.

Love, Dreamer.

 

[TravelingGal]

Circe, I gotta say, you are one tough cookie. I think you are amazing for coming here and continuing to educate and support others in the midst of your pain. I hope you feel you are getting much love and support from this community. I am learning so much as I always do from this forum, and I am not just saying that. I have learned more about pregnancy, birth and babies (and the many things that ail them) from here more than anywhere else because I can''t look up things unless I know about them, and here you are sharing all you''ve been through - invaluable. Continued hugs to you and thank you again for sharing.

For those of you who keep harping on Mara, honestly I think you are drawing more attention away from Circe than she is, especially since Circe repeatedly has mentioned not being offended.

 

[princesss]

Circe, hun, I just wanted to chime in again to say that you and your family are in my prayers. I hope that each day is just a tiny bit easier than the last, and I hope you know we''re here to support you the best ways we know how.

*hug*

 

[Circe]

Ugh, ugh, ugh - and now, just to top it all off, methinks the clinical depression just hit. I''ve been depressed before, so I know how to recognize it: situational depression is when you think, "My life sucks, maybe I should have a drink." Clinical depression is when you think, "Yeah, and then I could eat the glass!" Prior to last night, I''d been depressed, but sort of ... surprised by it: I actually commented to my DH that this was the first time in my life that I''d had the crushing sadness of depression without the suicidal ideation, but as of last night, nope, no exceptions. I''m trying to figure out, is this regular old postpartum depression, or could this be the Premarin? I''ve always known that I''m susceptible to various chemicals, including estrogen, but this really is insult added to injury. (Oh, uh, ETA: don''t worry, I''ve put a call into my doctor, and I''d never actually *do* it - it would kill my parents.)

Dreamer, thank you for putting the idea of that lineage, that commonality into my head: I''d just been thinking, the other day, "Now I know how Anne Boleyn felt!" Well, now I''m glad to know I''m not the only one who''s had *that* thought, either ....

 

[Festy]

Circe, I''m so sorry the pain is getting worse. Thank goodness you are able to recognize the signs quickly and I applaud you for calling the doctor straight away. As gut-wrenching as it is for your friends on PS to hear about this, it is nonetheless reassuring to see you continue to post and "talk" through this.

 

[drk]

Circe - I''m sure you''ll have a lot of slight improvements and setbacks emotionally while you''re recovering from all of this. I''m glad you recognize the danger signs and that you have someone you can go to for help. I hope they find the right way to help you through the depression - it may still be situational at this point in time, but nevertheless may well need meds to treat it. I''m no psychiatrist though. At least you recognize how dissonant your thoughts are and still know that you would never commit suicide, even if the ideation is there. Thinking of you still, and I continue to be impressed with your strength and openness. You''re a star!

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 8/17/2009 3:12:09 PM
Author: Circe
Ugh, ugh, ugh - and now, just to top it all off, methinks the clinical depression just hit. I''ve been depressed before, so I know how to recognize it: situational depression is when you think, ''My life sucks, maybe I should have a drink.'' Clinical depression is when you think, ''Yeah, and then I could eat the glass!'' Prior to last night, I''d been depressed, but sort of ... surprised by it: I actually commented to my DH that this was the first time in my life that I''d had the crushing sadness of depression without the suicidal ideation, but as of last night, nope, no exceptions. I''m trying to figure out, is this regular old postpartum depression, or could this be the Premarin? I''ve always known that I''m susceptible to various chemicals, including estrogen, but this really is insult added to injury. (Oh, uh, ETA: don''t worry, I''ve put a call into my doctor, and I''d never actually *do* it - it would kill my parents.)

Dreamer, thank you for putting the idea of that lineage, that commonality into my head: I''d just been thinking, the other day, ''Now I know how Anne Boleyn felt!'' Well, now I''m glad to know I''m not the only one who''s had *that* thought, either ....

Circe, I urge you to seek some type of counseling or therapy if you are feeling this way. Depression doesn''t just go away on it''s own... It''s cyclical and may get a bit better with time but you are going through so much right now - I really think a grievance counselor or psychologist may be able to help you through this time. The hospital may have some references for you or provide you with some counselling. I am so sorry hun... The doctor may be able to prescribe some antidepressants for you but it may not be such a good idea considering all the other medications you are on right now... I hope you are getting out of the house a bit and getting some fresh air and sunlight! Nothing is worse for depression than staying indoors 24/7. Try to surround yourself with family and friends right now too, and keep busy.

 

[KimberlyH]

Circe, I am so sorry this is getting harder for you as time goes on. While I do not share your experience, I do believe that in most cases it gets hardest when, shortly after, life continues on around you and you're still left grieving. I hope you find the help you need to work your way through this. Sending you many kind thoughts.

 

[hlmr]

I am sending healing thoughts to you Circe. I hope tomorrow will be a better day! xo

 

[Kaleigh]

Sending prayers your way. You know the warning signs, and are on top of it. We are here for you!!! I am sorry, my heart is with your''s tonight. This has got to be so hard.