Stillbirth thread?

[Linda W]

Circe, please know that we are all thinking about you. I am sending healing dust your way and lots of hugs.


Linda

 

[Mara]

Ahhh, I'm sorry to hear you are feeling worse Circe. I don't have any helpful words related to depression, but it's good you have already called your doctor. Is your friend visiting yet? Maybe spending some time with her will give you some cheer. Is there anything that you absolutely love to do or see or spend time around that might lift your spirits a little? Thinking of you and your husband, continued best wishes.

 

[sbde]

circe - just wanted to reiterate that you and your hubby continue to be in my thoughts, as is oden.

please don''t feel obliged to respond to each and every post here, or feel guilty for not doing so. take this time to be kind to yourself, and take care of yourself, and grieve and heal..and do whatever you need to do to feel better.

you are such an exceptionally strong, articulate woman and i really do take inspiration from the grace you''re exhibiting under these trying circumstances.

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 8/18/2009 12:32:51 AM
Author: sbde
circe - just wanted to reiterate that you and your hubby continue to be in my thoughts, as is oden.

please don''t feel obliged to respond to each and every post here, or feel guilty for not doing so. take this time to be kind to yourself, and take care of yourself, and grieve and heal..and do whatever you need to do to feel better.

you are such an exceptionally strong, articulate woman and i really do take inspiration from the grace you''re exhibiting under these trying circumstances.

Exactly, well said.

Circe we are happy to just listen and support you through this extreemly hard time. You need to focus on yourself as you are going through so much right now. Dont expect a quick fix or that you have to bounce back right away. Both you and your husband will need lots of time now and lots of support. I really hope we can support you in some small way here and that it can be a place that you can feel free to talk about Oden and how you are coping when and if you want.

We are all very sad about your losing your son and I hope so much that you will get as much help as you need. I would imagine it`s a minute by minute journey atm. So, just focus on what you need to get thru this.

 

[Mandarine]

Circe, I am so sorry you''re feeling worse, but like others have said...I''m amazed by your grace and strength. It''s good that you are such in touch with yourself that are able to recognize these signs and act.
We''re praying for you. ((hugs))

 

[lyra]

Hi Circe. I''m sorry you''re dealing with significant depression now too. It seems to make sense from all angles though, unfortunately, so please don''t feel bad about that. I''ve dealt with depression my whole life, and it only became clinical after the birth of my first daughter. It was triggered by a horrendous birth process, and it lasted a good 6-8 weeks. My doctor was very concerned. So although part of it was physiological and natural (post partum), part of it was because I had a natural propensity towards depression also. I''m so glad that you are taking the right steps to have it addressed now. The sooner the better.

Please take care. Good vibes and thoughts to you daily.

 

[cara]

Circe, I am so sorry you are still struggling. The PPD hormones combined with the sad passing of your little boy and traumatic L&D... make it all understandable. Please take care of yourself, and there will be light again in your life one day, even if it is hard to imagine now.

 

[TravelingGal]

Crice, think of you today - please take care of yourself.

 

[hlmr]

Checking in Circe, and hoping you are okay.

 

[Circe]

Hey, guys - thank you, and I am okay, though no thanks to my doctor''s office.

Generally, my doctor is awesome (as I''ve mentioned), but I called yesterday three times, each time saying a variation of "Hi, I had a miscarriage/stillbirth last week, and the doctor put me on Premarin to promote uterine healing, and I know from past experience that I''m susceptible to hormones, and I''m having suicidal ideation, dunno if it''s because of the medicine or postpartum depression. Does your office have any suggestions on how I should handle this?" At the end of the day, her office called back to say that I was probably "just sad," and should just ride it out.

I actually sort of think that''s criminal. I think that to someone who had no experience with the havoc one''s chemicals could wreak on one''s system, that *could* actually lead to suicide, since you wouldn''t know it was temporary, foreign, and manageable. I don''t say a gyno''s office should also have psych personnel ... but they should probably have a better canned response, and maybe a stock of Prozac or something on hand.

I''m taking what my husband fondly calls my Homeopathic Crazy Pills, my 5HTP vitamins (think B vitamins on crack), and placebo or not, like always, they seem to be helping: compared to yesterday, today ain''t great, but it''s manageable. Again, thanks for giving me a place to let it out. Now, for some chocolate cake in the sun - if that can''t make me feel better, right?

 

[cara]

Oh my gosh, Circe!

Yes, your dr.s office's response is horrifying! How about your GP? Meanwhile, um yes anything likely to improve mood. Homeopathic crazy pills included. Sunlight? Exercise? Meanwhile I am sure that some of the depression is the hormones talking. I miscarried at 6 weeks and still felt it. At 18 weeks, with the associated grief and trauma of your loss, its got to be worse but it can and will get better, even if it needs some prozac help. Please go call another doc if you don't feel the clouds lifting...

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 8/18/2009 7:59:01 PM
Author: Circe

Generally, my doctor is awesome (as I've mentioned), but I called yesterday three times, each time saying a variation of 'Hi, I had a miscarriage/stillbirth last week, and the doctor put me on Premarin to promote uterine healing, and I know from past experience that I'm susceptible to hormones, and I'm having suicidal ideation, dunno if it's because of the medicine or postpartum depression. Does your office have any suggestions on how I should handle this?' At the end of the day, her office called back to say that I was probably 'just sad,' and should just ride it out.

I actually sort of think that's criminal.

I think it's absolutely criminal. Health professionals should err on the side of caution in that situation and assume there IS immiment danger and work backward from that assumption instead of assuming it's just a minor thing that will pass.

(Not to mention it's flat out inexcusable to have not replied to you at the end of the day after THREE messages.)

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Maybe it's time to seek another doctor for the short term to make sure your needs are met. That's the most important thing right now.

 

[Kaleigh]

I am so sorry Circe,. I hate the response you got from your docotr''s office. I swear some of those women should be shot. If you call and are very upset they should take that very seriously and not just say well you''re sad... OMG, that is just awful and I hope when you do speak to your Doc that you bring this to his attention...

 

[lyra]

It makes me incredibly angry to hear this Circe. Words are failing me, again. You have some good natural solutions, and I will add one more thing: alcohol is a depressant, so going that route is going to make things worse. But you *need* relief. Having gone the rounds with depression myself, I can clearly see where you might be helped by something pharmacological for anxiety, and depression. Even if it''s just for a month or two, it''s worth a try, and any GP should be able to help you with that. There''s so much I want to say but it''s hard to temper my anger at your doctor''s office, and not wanting to overwhelm you or anything. Getting outside *will* help. Drinking lots of water actually can help with anxiety. You need decent sleep too. I hope you do visit your GP. It''s a fact that sometimes we have to fight for our mental health. I don''t know why it''s so hard, but it is sometimes. I''ve had doctors brush me off too, and it *is* criminal. Take care, please.

 

[princesss]

Circe, I''m furious at your doctor''s office right now. How freaking dare they? Was it your doctor that said that or a nurse or what? Because I''m telling you, I would like some heads to roll for that. "Just sad" my big fat fanny. You know yourself and your body better than anybody, and further any doctor worth their salt that has dealt with depression/PPD/stillbirth should freaking understand how terrible any one of those is, but a combination....

I''m glad you''re coming here and talking. Cake and sunshine sound like a great idea, as does some exercise. It won''t solve anything, but it might make things a little bit better.

*big hugs*

 

[SeaStar]

Circe I know I probably shouldn''t be giving you medical advice...that said, I''m throwing the notion out the window.

1)Is there any reason you need the Premarin? Did you hemorrhage or pass large clots? Did you lose an abnormal amount of blood during delivery? Do you know what your H&H (hemoglobin and hematocrit?) is? Are you severely anemic? Did they have a hard time getting your uterus back to a normal shape/size?

2)What dose of Premarin are you on?

3) Do you have a plan for your SI? I know what it''s like to just not want to be here anymore after you go through this. It just seems pointless, as if there''s no reason for your existence. Everything seems meaningless after losing your child...but if you really have a plan for follow through it takes it to a whole other level and you definitely need to talk to someone or get yourself to a safe place. I work per diem as a charge nurse in inpatient pediatric psychiatry but we get teenage mothers with PPD...and as someone who has dealt with suicidal ideation before you know that you are prone to this and are going to deal with more than just a garden variety depression...I have seen young women admitted with severe PPD willingly and sectioned with postpartum psychosis, it can be very tough to break, so if you feel yourself slipping make sure you reach out to someone, anyone. I don''t know if we have PMs on here but feel free to email me at [email protected] and I''m happy to give you my number if you want an ear from someone who''s been there...if things get bad don''t hesitate to call the national suicide hotline 1-800-suicide or 1-800-273-talk. Big hugs to you. I''m so sorry your doctor''s office dropped the ball, but just know your doctor may not even be aware of the situation...the nurse may not even have given her the message, may have thought they could handle it themselves...if you haven''t talked to your doctor yet about this I would DEMAND a phone call back from your doctor ASAP.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Actually, I think that is criminal, or at least grounds for the individual to be thouroughly slapped around by his or her liscensing organization. There is a code of conduct/ethical requirement of psychological personell and police to take any type of suicidal thoughts/verbalizations completely seriously, and there is a protocol that they must follow in such situations. I would assume that extends to health care providers too. Hoe disgusting. But I''m glad the crazy pills are helping, placebo or not.

 

[Circe]

Thank you, ladies. I am actually A LOT better today than I was yesterday, so, to the extent that you worry about internet friends, don't worry about me.

SeaStar, no specific SI (it took me a second, and asking my BF to figure out what that was, and then it was so logical) - it was more really just vague thoughts about what it would be like to hurt myself with every random thing. Obviously NOT a normal, healthy level of sadness, or just something one should ride out.

Dreamer, Princess, Lyra, Kaleigh, Allison D., Cara, ALL of you - it was first my doctor's office last night, and then my doctor herself early this morning. The thing is, I think she's an awesome doc in every way *except* for this: caring, responsible, and, hell, she comes to work to be there for her patients even when she's feeling under the weather. But I also think that after my last check-up with her on Friday (I was planning to move last week, actually, and we postponed it because of all of this on her advice), I'm really seriously going to spell this out for her, or maybe write her a letter or something, because I think for a person without my unfortunate experience of previous depression, her answer would have been worse than unhelpful, but actually *harmful.* She did say if I was seriously having SI, I ought to be hospitalized, but under the circumstances, it weirdly felt more like a threat than an offer of help - like, stop bitching, or suck up the consequences. NOT because she is a bad doc., maybe because I am paranoid, but ... while I freely acknowledge that the first priority is always keeping the patient alive, there needs to be some middle ground, y'know? Like, saying, maybe it *is* the meds and providing an alternative, or recommending, like, the homeopathic alternatives, or just saying, eat healthy, or SOMETHING.

SeaStar, I'm on .9 mg of PreMarin a day for just ("just," knock wood) uterine healing, to hopefully help me be well for future children. Looking online, it looks like this stuff is risky for everything from various cancers to dementia if you take it for 5+ years, but they don't know/it's not a risk for only a month. If anyone has any experience with it, I would really appreciate hearing your wisdom ....

ETA, and P.S. - SeaStar, thanks for putting a contact point up. I think it's against PS policy, but I'm copying and pasting, just in case. I *think* between experience, husband, friends, etc., I'm okay, but it's wonderfully brave of you to put yourself out there, and, for that matter, just plain WONDERFUL of all of you to ... I don't even know what to call it. Look out for strangers? Invest in the collective enterprise of community? PS, like a few internet sites before, has made me feel better about human nature. There's so much wretched human flotsam out there, and when you build connections, each and every time, you make more and more ties (details, GTGs), and you know people well enough that you then (counter-intuitively) feel nervous about sharing. But each time in my life that I've needed people, people, random people, have stepped up the plate. This time, it's been you guys. Sorry to sound simple, but ... it's a simple thing, straightforward. THANK YOU.

 

[KimberlyH]

Circe, I''m so very sorry that your doctor''s office handled the situation so poorly. I''m glad you''re going to express your upset/disappointment in their treatment of the situation.

Continued peaceful thoughts headed your way.

 

[SeaStar]

Circe, I'm just a little baffled because Premarin's kinda big guns, not run-of-the-mill to be prescribed after unless there were complications. I would talk to your doctor ASAP about weaning down if you're having a normal post-partum course. I really do not understand why your doctor prescribed it, except maybe the potency will help to help dry up your milk. Even then, risk vs. benefits not really worth it..is there a reason she believes your uterus may not be okay for future children? Endometriosis? Be careful with your letter, some doctors just don't fare well with depression and the psychiatric realm and if she does feel threatened she may feel the need to act on it...you don't want to get yourself sectioned unnecessarily either, you know? Your doctor may be wonderful in so many ways but if she doesn't meet your needs in an area that's crucial to your well being she may not be the doctor for you....just something to think about.

 

[waxing lyrical]

Date: 8/18/2009 7:59:01 PM
Author: Circe
Hey, guys - thank you, and I am okay, though no thanks to my doctor''s office.


Generally, my doctor is awesome (as I''ve mentioned), but I called yesterday three times, each time saying a variation of ''Hi, I had a miscarriage/stillbirth last week, and the doctor put me on Premarin to promote uterine healing, and I know from past experience that I''m susceptible to hormones, and I''m having suicidal ideation, dunno if it''s because of the medicine or postpartum depression. Does your office have any suggestions on how I should handle this?'' At the end of the day, her office called back to say that I was probably ''just sad,'' and should just ride it out.


I actually sort of think that''s criminal. I think that to someone who had no experience with the havoc one''s chemicals could wreak on one''s system, that *could* actually lead to suicide, since you wouldn''t know it was temporary, foreign, and manageable. I don''t say a gyno''s office should also have psych personnel ... but they should probably have a better canned response, and maybe a stock of Prozac or something on hand.


I''m taking what my husband fondly calls my Homeopathic Crazy Pills, my 5HTP vitamins (think B vitamins on crack), and placebo or not, like always, they seem to be helping: compared to yesterday, today ain''t great, but it''s manageable. Again, thanks for giving me a place to let it out. Now, for some chocolate cake in the sun - if that can''t make me feel better, right?

Ack! WTF?!? I''ve heard some insensitive stuff, but wow. I''m upset for you. Why are you on Premarin again? Hmm.

Have you considered taking omega 3 supplements for depression? After losing our son I couldn''t really distinguish between PPD and normal grief/mourning.

I still can''t get over the ''just sad'' part.

 

[vizsla]

circe - i've been following your thread and am amazed everyday with your composure, strength and levelheadedness during this time. continued healing and support...

re: your drs. office. the fact that you *wanted* and were willing to say "hey, i think it's the drugs, can we try something else," is what i wish more people would do! unfortunately, the tragic flaw with so many *good* drs. is that they prescribe, prescribe, prescribe instead of *listening* and trying alternative/homeopathic remedies.

i'm glad you have something that you know can help take the edge off of what these meds are doing to you. logically, yes, medicine is important -- but the manner in which they are prescribed/handled/dosed needs a serious overhaul. and drs. need to listen when patients say "i don't think this is working - or - i don't want to take a drug, can we try something else?"

chocolate cake in the sun sounds heavenly. sending you a big ol slice with whipped cream ....

 

[Circe]

Date: 8/18/2009 10:53:13 PM
Author: SeaStar
Circe, I''m just a little baffled because Premarin''s kinda big guns, not run-of-the-mill to be prescribed after unless there were complications. I would talk to your doctor ASAP about weaning down if you''re having a normal post-partum course. I really do not understand why your doctor prescribed it, except maybe the potency will help to help dry up your milk. Even then, risk vs. benefits not really worth it..is there a reason she believes your uterus may not be okay for future children? Endometriosis? Be careful with your letter, some doctors just don''t fare well with depression and the psychiatric realm and if she does feel threatened she may feel the need to act on it...you don''t want to get yourself sectioned unnecessarily either, you know? Your doctor may be wonderful in so many ways but if she doesn''t meet your needs in an area that''s crucial to your well being she may not be the doctor for you....just something to think about.

After I read this and a few other posts, I started getting worried ... but apparently, this was her plan from the get-go: when I was being prepped for surgery (the extraction of that stubborn placenta), she talked to my husband and told him in advance that while I was obviously the sort of woman who liked to research her medicines, maybe this time I ought to make an exception. Funnily, nothing I read freaked me out that badly - long-term, it looks scary, but short-term ... well, not great, but worth it if it will make it easier for me to have a healthy pregnancy the next time around. I just would have appreciated knowing about the possible depression issues so I could have planned for them and taken some prophylactic measures ....

The packers are here now, so I''m just sitting and watching in a kind of a daze, periodically rescuing something from a box. Off to make myself more useful ....

 

[Mara]

Boo on your doctor's office Circe and I agree that you might need to switch. When I was starting my care, I had a very 'capable' seeming doctor but she was kind of a blase personality, and when we had some issues with some tests...her attitude when I was voicing my concerns was surprising. She was like 'oh no big deal, I'm sure it's fine'. So I made an appt with another highly recommended ob in the dept, and on our appt I just loved her. She explained things so much more clearly and thoroughly, didn't treat me like a child, and respected when I would ask her questions outside of the 'box'. So I switched. Def look into other options in your department or facility... even though ugh that whole office sounds like a bunch of dummies. Of course you are sad, but that doesn't negate the fact you are calling into the office MULTIPLE times for assistance because it might be more serious. If you can't get help from them who are you supposed to turn to? Ridiculous. I don't know if your facility has this, but ours has feedback forms you can fill out after appts and procedures, which they mail to you...in a case like this I would def return it with some choice words.

Anyway hope the chocolate cake, friend and hubs altogether are helping a little bit. Eat a lot of the cake. XO..and thinking of you.

 

[drk]

How are you doing today Circe? Hope you''re staying strong! Thinking of you...

 

[Kaleigh]

Thinking of you tonight Circe...

 

[blushingbride]

Circe - hope you are doing OK and taking care of yourself - thinking of you!

 

[hlmr]

Thinking of you Circe!

 

[Circe]

Hey, guys, thanks for thinking of me. I'm getting better physically: week ago when my friend arrived, I couldn't stay upright long enough for the cab driver to validate my credit card, but needed to go and sit down on the curb. Now, I still get tired out incredibly easily, but it's within "normal" boundaries. We're moving to NY tonight, so hopefully I'll be together enough to apt. hunt by Monday.

Emotionally? Eh. I saw a cute baby in the post office yesterday and started crying. The clinical depression isn't helping: it comes and goes, so yesterday morning was fine, yesterday night after a snit with my dad was a nightmare. Am seeing the doc today, and will ask her if maybe it could be a side effect of the Ambien she put me on, rather than the Premarin (looking at the package inserts, the former warns that suicidal thinking could be a side effect, the latter, not). And weirdly, I feel guilty (towards myself) that I never wrote out the birth experience. I really wanted to have all that done by the time we were in NY, the better to "put it behind me" ... but that may have been a bit of magical thinking, as quite obviously, I am not yet over it, and giving myself another week or month to get there is quite obviously what I need.

Hope all is well with you guys - now, off to pack the last of the stuff. Moving, ugh ....

 

[Mara]

Best of luck with the move Circe...and definitely give yourself time. I imagine it can easily be ''up and down'' for a little while...be patient with yourself. I''m so glad to hear the visit with your friend is helping. Hang in there.