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Should student loan debt (USA) be forgiven?

missy

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Interesting. These countries offer entirely free education to their citizens. Not as many countries as I would have thought.


6 Countries With Virtually Free College Tuition


By LISA GOETZ
Updated May 9, 2019
The staggering cost of higher education in the United States has many prospective college students wondering whether going to college is worth the expense. While conventional wisdom still points to the benefits of having a college degree, more students and their families are seeking alternatives to lower their college tuition bills. Some Americans are even looking abroad, as some countries offer free tuition to international students and programs of study entirely in English.

1. Norway
Students willing to brave exceptionally harsh winters and one of the highest costs of living in the world might consider earning their degrees in Norway. Tuition is free at public universities, giving students the opportunity to earn degrees at top-ranked institutions such as the University of Oslo, Norwegian University of Science and Technology, and the University of Bergen.

2. Finland
Until recently, citizens and international students paid no tuition at state-run universities. However, starting in 2017, international students wishing to earn degrees in English will pay a minimum of $1,634 per year, though many universities charge far more depending on the degree level and program of study.12 Doctoral students, as well as those pursuing their studies in Finnish or Swedish, still pay no tuition. The government also plans to offer scholarships and financial aid to international students with exceptional academic backgrounds.

3. Sweden
Only students pursuing research-based doctoral degrees get free tuition in Sweden; some programs of study even offer stipends to international students. Nevertheless, students should be aware that Sweden’s high cost of living may put them over budget, even when they pay nothing to earn their degrees.

4. Germany
Germany needs skilled workers, and this reality creates a win-win situation for American students. All students enrolled in any of the country’s public universities can attend for free. What's more, German universities offer a wide range of programs entirely in English, and an American student can earn a university degree in Germany without speaking a word of German. Top-ranked institutions, such as the University of Munich and the University of Bonn, mean that U.S. students don’t have to trade prestige for cost.

5. Slovenia
Cultural experiences, proximity to tourist destinations in Italy and Croatia, and free university tuition make Slovenia an attractive choice for students wanting to earn their degrees abroad. Like Germany, Slovenian universities offer numerous programs of study in English, so students only need to learn the language to communicate with the locals.

6. France
In the past, students needed to speak French in order to attend university in France. This is no longer the case, however, as many programs of study at both public and private universities are offered in English. Students who attend public universities usually pay a few hundred dollars per year, depending on the degree level and program of study. Over the years, France has modified its free tuition model, and some EU students pay tuition based on family income. Such changes may eventually impact how much international students pay to attend French universities.

Beyond Europe
Europe remains a well-known, highly sought-after destination for students seeking refuge from high-priced U.S. colleges and universities, but public universities in countries such as Mexico and Brazil also have virtually free tuition; students pay registration fees, which amount to very little when considering the exchange rates. Some universities offer top-quality programs of study in English. Earning a degree south of the border also makes it possible for students to learn highly sought-after languages of commerce, such as Spanish and Portuguese.

Americans can also attend university in China and pay around $3,000 per year, which is very affordable when compared to U.S. tuition rates. The best tuition deals in China, however, are reserved for students able to pursue their studies in Chinese.
Interesting. So USA citizens have more affordable options abroad if so desired.
 

kipari

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Interesting. These countries offer entirely free education to their citizens. Not as many countries as I would have thought.




Interesting. So USA citizens have more affordable options abroad if so desired.
If you take the whole EU, there much more people than in the US, so I just think the sheer size argument doesn't really explain why it wouldn't work.

ETA:
Education is basically free for EU citizens in EU countries. It used to be expensive for US students in order to prevent them coming for cheap studies especially for medicine. But even this has changed.
 

missy

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If you take the whole EU, there much more people than in the US, so I just think the sheer size argument doesn't really explain why it wouldn't work.

ETA:
Education is basically free for EU citizens in EU countries. It used to be expensive for US students in order to prevent them coming for cheap studies especially for medicine. But even this has changed.
Yes it is a very complex issue and as I wrote I cannot hope to figure it out if much greater minds are still working on this challenge. It's great if US citizens can go abroad and get an excellent education. I wonder how they are able to provide that. I could see, if perhaps, as an incentive they offer free education if one will stay and practice in that country (for a certain number of years in order to pay it back and forward if you kwim) ie if one is going into medicine and that is in short supply. However not sure how that would work.

If we could make something like that work here that would be beneficial. In rural areas that need doctors as an example pay for the student's higher education as long as they promise to go back to the rural area and practice medicine.
 

missy

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@kipari I am not familiar with the education system in France. Can anyone (French citizen) who wants to attend higher education ie college go? Or must one pass a series of tests to be admitted? That is, can "mediocre" or less academically inclined students go to college (if they so desire) there or is it only reserved for the more intellectually inclined student? Just trying to understand the logistics of who can and who does attend and how completive it is.
 

missy

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Very interesting- one USA state offers free education in Kalamazoo Michigan.




Does Free College Work? Kalamazoo Offers Some Answers
Tuition subsidy in Kalamazoo, Mich., funded by anonymous donors, lifts enrollment sharply but graduation rates are mixed

By Josh Mitchell and Michelle Hackman | Photographs by Brittany Greeson for The Wall Street Journal
June 28, 2019 1:05 pm ET

KALAMAZOO, Mich.—In 2005, caught in a spiral of urban decay and a falling population, Kalamazoo embarked on a bold experiment to save itself. It would give local students free college tuition.

The program, funded by anonymous donors who pay the bill each year, kicked off a free-college movement that has gained traction across the U.S. More than 300 cities and states have some variety of free-tuition program, although most aren’t as generous. Many of the 2020 Democratic presidential contenders support some form of free college as part of their campaigns.

Thirteen years after Kalamazoo’s program went into effect, some results are in. College enrollment has risen. Kalamazoo’s economy is stronger. So is a sense of community in a city that once had nearly lost hope.

Yet city leaders have found the benefits of the Kalamazoo Promise, as the free college plan is known, go only so far. Just 38% of students who finished high school between 2006 and 2012 earned a college degree or certificate, according to the Upjohn Institute, a nonprofit research center that has studied the program. This was up only slightly from the 34% average for the three years before the program existed.

Among black students, just 23% from the classes of 2006 through 2012 earned a college credential, compared with 22% before the program.

The percentage of Kalamazoo residents living in poverty, at 31%, is higher than it was at the start of this century, when the share living in families at or below the federal poverty threshold stood at 24%, Census data show.

“It’s like an onion,” said Brad Hershbein of the Upjohn Institute. “You take away the outer layer —financial need. Once that’s gone you see these other layers, or barriers, are left. The inner layers are problems you wouldn’t have known are a big issue. ”Among them are high rates of single-parent households, teen pregnancy and homelessness.

In Kalamazoo, a city of 77,000 two hours west of Detroit, factories supported the economy throughout the 1900s, producing Checker cabs, Gibson guitars, paper products and medical devices. General Motors had a plant on the outskirts of town. A local pharmaceutical company, Upjohn Co., was the inventor of the friable pill, or medicine that can dissolve in the stomach.

The population began to shrink in the 1970s as some white families headed for the suburbs and factories hurt by globalization closed or moved. GM shut its plant in the 1990s. Pfizer Inc. bought Upjohn and downsized it. By the early 2000s, brick buildings downtown sat empty and schools suffered along with the tax base.

Spurring the free-college movement is anxiety over the cost of tuition, which has risen at more than double the inflation rate since 1990, while student debt has tripled since late 2006.




A handful of wealthy residents approached the public schools’ superintendent at the time,
Kalamazoo, Mich., once depressed, has enjoyed an economic revival in recent years.

Janice Brown, saying they wanted to turn the city’s fortunes around through education. The thinking was free tuition for city students would lure families back, give households a financial boost, form a skilled workforce and reduce unemployment.

“They believed investing in higher education would make a really big bang,” said Dr. Brown.

Janice Brown was the head of Kalamazoo public schools in 2005 when some wealthy local residents went to her and o"ered to cover college tuition for graduates. The anonymous donors have since provided $124 million in tuition subsidies for more than 5,700 students.
The donors, remaining anonymous, insisted that all students in the public schools be eligible. “It is not just a handout for the poor,” she said.

The program, still in effect, covers 100% of tuition at any public college and 15 private colleges in the state for a child who began in the local school system in kindergarten. The subsidy is reduced on a sliding scale for those who enroll later, down to 65% of tuition for students who enter local schools in the ninth grade.

Students who accept the aid must maintain at least a 2.0 grade in three-quarters of classes to continue to receive the subsidy; they’re not obligated to serve the city or live there after their college years.

Colleges where Kalamazoo students enroll send their tuition bills to Dr. Brown, who passes them on to the donors. Since the program took effect in June 2006, they have paid $124 million in tuition subsidies for 5,735 students, according to its administrators.

Slightly more than half were from families with incomes low enough that the students received free or reduced-price lunch in high school, according to the Upjohn Institute.

Hundreds of families moved to Kalamazoo in the first year after the program began, most from within the region and other parts of Michigan but some from out of state. The school district’s population jumped by about 1,000 students, or 10%, in the year after creation of the program.

Housing developers who had avoided the city started lining up permits to build. Schools

got a financial boost, since their share of state funding depends partly on the number of students enrolled.

At the same time, some neighboring school districts lost students and funding, and a nearby charter school closed, under pressure from the move of families to Kalamazoo.

Sheri Welsh and Richard Welsh, Kalamazoo parents of two young children, had been looking to move to a bigger home in the suburbs. Instead, they stayed and spent $30,000—money they had set aside for tuition—upgrading their 1930s Tudor-style house in the city. Ms. Welsh expanded her executive-recruiting firm.


University studying to be a physician assistant. “I would not have been able to go to the University of Michigan without it.” She probably would have started at a nearby state college or a community college to save money, she said.

Ms. Welsh, now 24, has about $54,000 in student debt, because the program didn’t cover

living expenses at Michigan or her graduate-school tuition. She believes the debt is manageable given what she’ll earn as a physician assistant.

The free-tuition program also made Ms. Welsh feel attached to the Kalamazoo community, she said. She plans to move back to serve Spanish-speaking families.


Students from the 2006 and 2007 high-school classes who went on to earn bachelor’s degrees received an average of about $37,300 in tuition subsidies, according to Upjohn. The average subsidy was about $19,700 among everyone eligible for the Promise program, including those who started college but dropped out.

Those receiving the most dollars from the program have been female, white and from

middle- and upper-income families, according to the data from Upjohn. It said that was because those groups are far more likely to go to a four-year college, rather than a community college, and to graduate.

College enrollment has soared across all racial groups. Among all students who graduated from a Kalamazoo public high school from 2006 through 2017, 75% enrolled in college within six months, versus a national average of about 67% and only 58% in Kalamazoo before the program, according to the Upjohn Institute.

But when Upjohn looked at how many students from the 2006 through 2012 high-school

classes earned a bachelor’s degree within six years of their graduation, it found the rate for white students, 46%, was triple the rate for black students.

And among high-school graduates from mid/high-income households—defined as those not eligible for free or reduced-cost school lunches—the percentage of students earning some kind of college credential jumped to 56% from 43%, a contrast to the nearly unchanged figure for black students. The institute’s Mr. Hershbein said this is where the other layers of the onion— the societal problems preventing students from being prepared for college—are revealed.

About 55% of children in Kalamazoo come from single-parent households, U.S. Education

Department figures show. In recent years, as many as 7% of the city’s public-school students were homeless, twice the national average, also based on Education Department data. The teen pregnancy rate in Kalamazoo County is nearly 50% higher than the national rate, according to state and federal data.

Mr. Hershbein said such problems undermine students’ ability to persist in college even with tuition costs covered. Some drop out to take care of family members. Others weren’t academically prepared for college and are overwhelmed when they get there, he said.



Their daughter, Alexis Welsh, graduated in 2012 near the top of her high- school class and went on to the University of Michigan, where the Promise program covered a total of $40,000 in tuition.

“I am so, so thankful,” said Ms. Welsh, now in graduate school at Idaho State


Mr. Hershbein said his research tells a more encouraging story. College graduation rates among minorities have indeed been flat in Kalamazoo. But they fell in other Michigan cities with similar demographics in the most recent recession and early in the expansion, he said.
His research shows that taking other variables into account—including gender, household income, high school attended and state of the economy—the Promise program has had a sizable effect in getting minorities to enroll in college and earn a credential.

Marcel Coleman Jr., 19, grew up in a family where his mother worked two jobs, as hairdresser and postal employee, to raise six children. He said he wouldn’t even have thought of applying to Michigan State University but for the free-tuition program.

Now he is entering his junior year there, studying physiology and planning to go to medical school. He works two jobs and gets enough financial aid to cover living expenses, which the Promise program doesn’t provide.

Mr.

He doesn’t know the identity of the donors paying his tuition, but he thinks about them. “It’s amazing to know that somebody in the 1% cares enough about the next generation of leaders that they made a fund for it,” he said.

Public-school leaders try to get more minorities to follow his path by describing college as a necessity.

In kindergarten, students sign “Promise” cards as parents and grandparents surround them, pledging to do their part to become college-ready. In sixth grade, they tour the local Western Michigan University. In high school, they navigate hallways plastered with pennants of Michigan colleges signed by local graduates who attended them.

For every Marcel Coleman there are two or three students who receive tuition subsidies and don’t finish. At the most popular college destination for the city’s students—Western Michigan and Kalamazoo Valley Community College, or KVCC—enrollment boomed by hundreds of students after the program took effect, but most eventually dropped out. Across the U.S., about a quarter of full-time community-college students graduate within three years, according to the Education Department.

Caitlyn Moon, 19, enrolled in KVCC last year right after high school. Between the Promise program and federal grants, her expenses were covered. But she felt aimless, she said, and was battling depression. Within a few months, she left.

Ms. Moon said she had enrolled only because that was the message delivered by the Promise and her family. “A lot of what we’re taught is ‘go to college, go to college,’ and not ‘go to college for this reason,’ ” she said. She now works at a coffee shop making $9.75 an hour.

The tuition program gives students 10 years to use their subsidies, and Ms. Moon is open to going back to college eventually. “I’d need to figure out why I would, other than just ‘you need a degree to function,’ ” she said.



Marcel Coleman Jr., seen outside his dorm at Michigan State, is studying physiology and has plans to go to medical school.

Coleman, who is black, will be the first in his family to earn a four-year degree. “There’s so much pressure on me. But thankfully I get to go here for free,” he said.

Caitlyn Moon was able to try college without accumulating any student debt because of Kalamazoo’s tuition program. She quit, feeling she didn’t have a good reason for being there, and now works at the Totally Brewed Café.
counselors several years ago. One of them, Monteze Morales, said that some of the students she counsels don’t know what they want to study, or they may not have been prepared for college- level work. Others are single parents struggling to cover living expenses.

“They’ll often say, ‘I have to work, I’m homeless, I don’t know what I’m doing,’ ” she said.

Ms. Morales meets with students individually several times a semester. Sometimes she tells them they need to open their syllabus, read their assigned books and show up on time. Other times, she puts them in touch with social services.

“The challenges that people bring with them to education because of poverty don’t just go away because we say we’re going to pay for college education,” said Bob Jorth, the Kalamazoo Promise’s executive director.

KVCC leaders say retention and graduation rates have improved since counselors were hired.

This year, the Promise’s marketing has emphasized vocational college. Administrators hope marginal students will be less likely to drop out of such programs because they are shorter.

The change also responds to demand in the local economy. Labor Department data show unemployment in the area that includes Kalamazoo and nearby Portage stood at 3.1% in April, without seasonal adjustments, below the national average. The fastest job growth is in mining, logging and construction.

On a recent day, three manufacturing firms called the head of a program at KVCC that teaches trade skills asking if it had any students available to fill jobs.

Though its economy isn’t as strong as nearby Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo is humming with activity, and residents say they’re sure the Promise is one reason. Downtown is filled with restaurants, art stores and a wine bar. It was opened this year by a young couple, including a Promise recipient who dropped out of college.



Downtown Kalamazoo in June 2019.

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kipari

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@kipari I am not familiar with the education system in France. Can anyone (French citizen) who wants to attend higher education ie college go? Or must one pass a series of tests to be admitted? That is, can "mediocre" or less academically inclined students go to college (if they so desire) there or is it only reserved for the more intellectually inclined student? Just trying to understand the logistics of who can and who does attend and how completive it is.
Anyone can go to public universities. Some specialties require strict tests (medicine). For some specialties (engineering, economics) you need to go to "Les grands écoles" which require very strict entry exams. The best are public and free. Some are excellent and private, thus not free.

In Germany you also need either very good grades for many specialties and some are based on entry exams.

I am not opposed at all to an academic selection.
But decisions shouldn't be made
via the pocketbook of your parents.
 

missy

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Anyone can go to public universities. Some specialties require strict tests (medicine). For some specialties (engineering, economics) you need to go to "Les grands écoles" which require very strict entry exams. The best are public and free. Some are excellent and private, thus not free.

In Germany you also need either very good grades for many specialties and some are based on entry exams.

I am not opposed at all to an academic selection.
But decisions shouldn't be made
via the pocketbook of your parents.
Oh I agree about academic selection as everyone isn't suited for the same education. Vocational schools make better sense for many.
As for the rich having more advantages in general I have to say that is everywhere. From my perspective having money gives one all sorts of advantages in many areas of life. Is it fair? No. Life is not fair. Should education be denied to those who have little money? Absolutely not. As I wrote there are lower cost options affordable for most if not all. Yes loans have to be taken out and part time jobs probably need to be part of the picture but I do think (maybe I am misguided in my thinking) that most people who are motivated and want an education can get it.

Do I think the cost of schools are astronomical and out of control? Yes I do.
Do I know what we can do about it? No I don't.
Do I hope one day in the (hopefully near) future more affordable options exist. Yes I do.


IMO healthcare is a right and not a privilege.
IMO higher education is a right as well. Just not the right to attend any college of one's choice. But getting a higher education should be a right because it is necessary for the health of our country just as is good health care. Both areas IMO where we are lacking.
 

kipari

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And I fully agree that not everyone is made as an intellectual. For many hands on jobs one doesn't have to attend college. This is why I value the German apprenticeship model. For nearly any job one should do an apprenticeship of 2-3 years. Apprentices alternate between their employer, who only pays them reduced wages and school.

So, people get schooled longer and skilled workers have a better standing. This was very valuable for a long time. Kept the wages for skilled workers up and social coherence.
It has eroded somewhat, because, like in the US, people think it's more desirable to go to university. Even if you'd make Wayyyy more money as a plumber than a philosophy major, 80% of the time
 

missy

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And I fully agree that not everyone is made as an intellectual. For many hands on jobs one doesn't have to attend college. This is why I value the German apprenticeship model. For nearly any job one should do an apprenticeship of 2-3 years. Apprentices alternate between their employer, who only pays them reduced wages and school.

So, people get schooled longer and skilled workers have a better standing. This was very valuable for a long time. Kept the wages for skilled workers up and social coherence.
It has eroded somewhat, because, like in the US, people think it's more desirable to go to university. Even if you'd make Wayyyy more money as a plumber than a philosophy major, 80% of the time
I was dead serious when I wrote a few days ago I value my plumber and electrician as much as my internist. They both help provide us with quality of life. And sometimes it seems it is harder to get one's appliance fixed than getting a successful surgery for example. I was just chatting about this with our refrigerator repairman on Monday. He laughed but he also agreed.

If only I had the aptitude to be let's say a plumber I would have happily gone into that field. Definitely would have made more money and had many grateful customers too. LOL.

The German apprenticeship model is a good one. Would love to see it duplicated here in the states.
 

kipari

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If only I had the aptitude to be let's say a plumber I would have happily gone into that field. Definitely would have made more money and had many grateful customers too. LOL.
Sadly I'm completely hopeless in that field!!!

But on top of paying well and promptly I treat my plumber very respectfully and he gets coffee and cake every time. Now that we have found him, we don't want to risk to be kicked out of his customer base!!
 

missy

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Sadly I'm completely hopeless in that field!!!

But on top of paying well and promptly I treat my plumber very respectfully and he gets coffee and cake every time. Now that we have found him, we don't want to risk to be kicked out of his customer base!!
Yes! But (and I’m sure you’re like this too because I just know it) I treat everyone with respect regardless of socioeconomic background etc. It does not matter to me what one does or how much education one has. I get to know someone based on who they are. And actions speak louder than words. I also happen to be very intuitive and can see who a person is relatively quickly and am usually spot on...a topic for another thread and day perhaps.

Thanks for an engaging conversation @kipari.
 

telephone89

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I have no idea if the American system is even salvageable. In Canada we still pay tuition, but its muuuuuch less than in the US. I would love to see student debt forgiven, education made a right - I love the idea of free tuition for in-state students at state school.

Personally I really love the Danish way. College is free, and students actually receive a stipend to cover costs so they don't have to work during studies. They have one of the lowest rates of unemployment in Europe, and consistently one of the top 3 happiest countries in the entire world. But taxes are high, and we all know that wouldn't fly in the MEMEME psyche of the US.
 

msop04

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Very interesting- one USA state offers free education in Kalamazoo Michigan.

Berea College is a private liberal arts school in Kentucky that offers 100% free education to be paid for via work study.
 

missy

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Berea College is a private liberal arts school in Kentucky that offers 100% free education to be paid for via work study.
So it seems as state by state opportunities can exist and perhaps more states can do something similar. Do you know how long Berea College has been offering this to their students?
 

msop04

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So it seems as state by state opportunities can exist and perhaps more states can do something similar. Do you know how long Berea College has been offering this to their students?
Since it was opened.


Berea is the only one of America's top colleges that awards every enrolled student a no-tuition promise. No student pays for tuition.

Founded in 1855 as the first interracial and coeducational college in the South, Berea charges no tuition and admits only academically promising students, primarily from Appalachia, who have limited economic resources. Berea’s cost of educating a student for four years is nearly $100,000.
 

missy

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Since it was opened.


Berea is the only one of America's top colleges that awards every enrolled student a no-tuition promise. No student pays for tuition.

Founded in 1855 as the first interracial and coeducational college in the South, Berea charges no tuition and admits only academically promising students, primarily from Appalachia, who have limited economic resources. Berea’s cost of educating a student for four years is nearly $100,000.
Thanks @msop04 and it seems there’s another college in Kentucky that offers free tuition.

 

msop04

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msop04

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Oops... Looks like I was mistaken about Berea. Founded in 1855, but not tuition free until 1892.
 

missy

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There ya go! I only knew about Berea, but that just shows that all it takes is a quick google search to find these institutions. Great opportunities!
Yes, definitely as I wrote before if one wants to attend higher education one can. It’s not only for the rich. Though yes one has to be a bit creative at times as well as perhaps starting slow and moving up. It is possible. I am very interested in reading more about these colleges that offer free tuition. And they’ve been doing it for many years. Gives me hope for the future kids and their education opportunities.
 

msop04

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Yes, definitely as I wrote before if one wants to attend higher education one can. It’s not only for the rich. Though yes one has to be a bit creative at times as well as perhaps starting slow and moving up. It is possible. I am very interested in reading more about these colleges that offer free tuition. And they’ve been doing it for many years. Gives me hope for the future kids and their education opportunities.
I agree... but in the age of Google and these kids knowing their way around anything "techy", this shouldn't be a problem. I am from the Appalachian area (which is why I'd always heard of Berea), but I don't know anyone who has gone there. However, during the 32 years my dad taught HS, he has had several (former) students graduate from there.
 

chrono

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But aren't these EU universities funded by tax payers or something in order to reduce the cost? That wouldn't fly in the USA.
 

Tekate

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Breara rates #47 in national liberal arts colleges in US News, it is aimed at low income, high performing Appalachian students and kids from Kentucky. As a liberal I would have serious qualms about it being a "Berea was founded by Protestant Christians. It maintains a Christian identity separate from any particular denomination. The college's motto, "God has made of one blood all peoples of the earth", is taken from Acts 17:26." this sort of makes Muslims and Jews and atheists perhaps uncomfortable, but maybe not, I know I would never have gone there free or not, but that is me. The school primarily is for Kentuckians and appalachian youth but they admit students from everywhere. This is considered a National LIberal Arts College so it is ranked below National Universities.

I like the concept, their endowment is 1.3 billion compared to Harvard's which is 41 billion..

These are prestigious universities in my opinion but appeal to a less broad group of people who need a more technical education.

I'd be proud of either/both went to this institution.

Their alumni and professors has very varied and very remarkable.

But neither of my son's would have considered a christian college, that was a criterion both stated very firmly.





Yes, definitely as I wrote before if one wants to attend higher education one can. It’s not only for the rich. Though yes one has to be a bit creative at times as well as perhaps starting slow and moving up. It is possible. I am very interested in reading more about these colleges that offer free tuition. And they’ve been doing it for many years. Gives me hope for the future kids and their education opportunities.
 

msop04

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Breara rates #47 in national liberal arts colleges in US News, it is aimed at low income, high performing Appalachian students and kids from Kentucky. As a liberal I would have serious qualms about it being a "Berea was founded by Protestant Christians. It maintains a Christian identity separate from any particular denomination. The college's motto, "God has made of one blood all peoples of the earth", is taken from Acts 17:26." this sort of makes Muslims and Jews and atheists perhaps uncomfortable, but maybe not, I know I would never have gone there free or not, but that is me. The school primarily is for Kentuckians and appalachian youth but they admit students from everywhere. This is considered a National LIberal Arts College so it is ranked below National Universities.

I like the concept, their endowment is 1.3 billion compared to Harvard's which is 41 billion..

These are prestigious universities in my opinion but appeal to a less broad group of people who need a more technical education.

I'd be proud of either/both went to this institution.

Their alumni and professors has very varied and very remarkable.

But neither of my son's would have considered a christian college, that was a criterion both stated very firmly.

So what if it was Christian founded?? Tons of excellent private schools are... Berea is a college education that's offered at no expense to students. Zero debt. As @missy said, there are ways to get a less expensive education, but it may not be the exact place you dream of attending. If you're scared to death that you may see or hear something "religious", then you may have to pay (more) for your education. Come on now...
 

missy

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Breara rates #47 in national liberal arts colleges in US News, it is aimed at low income, high performing Appalachian students and kids from Kentucky. As a liberal I would have serious qualms about it being a "Berea was founded by Protestant Christians. It maintains a Christian identity separate from any particular denomination. The college's motto, "God has made of one blood all peoples of the earth", is taken from Acts 17:26." this sort of makes Muslims and Jews and atheists perhaps uncomfortable, but maybe not, I know I would never have gone there free or not, but that is me. The school primarily is for Kentuckians and appalachian youth but they admit students from everywhere. This is considered a National LIberal Arts College so it is ranked below National Universities.

I like the concept, their endowment is 1.3 billion compared to Harvard's which is 41 billion..

These are prestigious universities in my opinion but appeal to a less broad group of people who need a more technical education.

I'd be proud of either/both went to this institution.

Their alumni and professors has very varied and very remarkable.

But neither of my son's would have considered a christian college, that was a criterion both stated very firmly.

I hear you and yes agree. For me, this wouldn't have been the school I attended. However, if I had very little money and couldn't afford the college I wanted to attend and this was the only way I could go I would have. At least I think I would have. Or perhaps I would have attended an in state affordable Community College and taken it from there to perhaps reach the school of my dreams or at least the school more to my preferences.

So what if it was Christian founded?? Tons of excellent private schools are... Berea is a college education that's offered at no expense to students. Zero debt. As @missy said, there are ways to get a less expensive education, but it may not be the exact place you dream of attending. If you're scared to death that you may see or hear something "religious", then you may have to pay (more) for your education. Come on now...
Yes. One cannot always attend the school of their dreams but as long as higher education is obtainable and can be used as a stepping stone to one's future endeavors.

My best friend attended Georgetown. It is a Catholic school. Excellent school. Am I Catholic? No. Would I go there? Yes. Because though it has Catholic roots the education there is secular. Like Boston College.

Anyway there is no one size fits all and we are all different and have a unique perspective on things. It's no one right way. But the most right way for each individual based on many factors.
 

rocks

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I agree... but in the age of Google and these kids knowing their way around anything "techy", this shouldn't be a problem. I am from the Appalachian area (which is why I'd always heard of Berea), but I don't know anyone who has gone there. However, during the 32 years my dad taught HS, he has had several (former) students graduate from there.
There are a few other tuition free colleges in Appalachia/ the Ozarks.....those young people work hard.
 

missy

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But aren't these EU universities funded by tax payers or something in order to reduce the cost? That wouldn't fly in the USA.
We do fund schools in the USA. State colleges are funded by state taxes. And then there public schools K-12 that we fund with our taxes in every jurisdiction in the USA I believe.
 

msop04

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There are a few other tuition free colleges in Appalachia/ the Ozarks.....those young people work hard.
Yes, they do... and I would imagine they are very appreciative of the opportunity to attend debt free. Also, you don't have to be from that area to get in, even though most are.
 
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rocks

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I hear you and yes agree. For me, this wouldn't have been the school I attended. However, if I had very little money and couldn't afford the college I wanted to attend and this was the only way I could go I would have. At least I think I would have. Or perhaps I would have attended an in state affordable Community College and taken it from there to perhaps reach the school of my dreams or at least the school more to my preferences.



Yes. One cannot always attend the school of their dreams but as long as higher education is obtainable and can be used as a stepping stone to one's future endeavors.

My best friend attended Georgetown. It is a Catholic school. Excellent school. Am I Catholic? No. Would I go there? Yes. Because though it has Catholic roots the education there is secular. Like Boston College.

Anyway there is no one size fits all and we are all different and have a unique perspective on things. It's no one right way. But the most right way for each individual based on many factors.
Two of my cousin’s kids go to providence, and it was not their first choice. the financial incentives were so generous that they matriculated. We are Jewish. There is a theology requirement, not religion. Lots of very catholic students. They both love it. My nieces first choice is Georgetown. I’d be thrilled if she is accepted. I’m not so quick to dismiss institutions with religious affiliations.
 

msop04

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Two of my cousin’s kids go to providence, and it was not their first choice. the financial incentives were so generous that they matriculated. We are Jewish. There is a theology requirement, not religion. Lots of very catholic students. They both love it. My nieces first choice is Georgetown. I’d be thrilled if she is accepted. I’m not so quick to dismiss institutions with religious affiliations.
Yes, I attended a Methodist founded school for undergrad, and a semester course in either Old or New Testament was required to graduate. I took New, because I can't pronounce, much less spell, a lot of the names in the Old Testament. It was a wonderful history course that had ZERO "religion" intertwined. The very first thing my professor uttered the first day of class was something along the lines of, "...welcome to New Testament. If you think this is going to be like Sunday school, then you will be extremely disappointed... or happy, I don't know. Hopefully, the reaction for most of you is happy..." It was a great class, and I learned a lot.
 

kipari

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But aren't these EU universities funded by tax payers or something in order to reduce the cost? That wouldn't fly in the USA.
We've had this conversation before on here. I pay a lot of taxes, but I get a lot for it, too. And after that property tax thread on here, the sum of all my taxes isn't necessarily higher than it would be in an affluent metropolitan area in the US. But with all charges and taxes I get free education, a social security net, healthcare (top notch, free choice of doctor, dental included) and retirement at 63.

But no one's getting rich as fast. Smaller homes, smaller cars, smaller BLING. More equality and security for all.
 
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