Shop diamond vs whiteflash

[Randomer]

Hi there,

I am looking to buy an engagement ring and wanted to compare what I could get in my local jewellery quarter (Hatton Garden) to online.

I have chosen a 3 stone ring with centre diamond and two side blue sapphires. I obviously would like the biggest and highest performing diamond for my budget which is £6k (gbp) total.

The shop I visited recommended the following diamond for the ring and priced it at around £5.6k bring total ring cost to 6.3 so slightly over my budget.
https://www.gia.edu/sites/Satellite...tCheck&pagename=GIA/Wrapper&cid=1495275503754

An example of a diamond I have looked at on whiteflash is larger with better cut but down a few grades in colour.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4092505.htm

I think a $6000 usd diamond made into my choice of ring with import tax’s will reach my budget.

The pros of purchasing the Hatton garden ring are that they will be able to make the ring for me relatively quickly and I can get it altered with minimal fuss.

Let me know your opinions on the diamond or whether my money would go a lot further online.

Thanks,

 

[bmfang]

Given you are in the UK, you may want to check out a Crafted By Infinity UK dealer if you are looking at Whiteflash already.

http://craftedbyinfinity.com/web/locations-europe/index.html

The two dealers in the UK are @Durham Rose and Best Diamonds.

As for the diamond chosen by the Hatton Garden jeweller, the 58% table might be a little too wide for some of us to recommend, but I think most folks on here would take issue with the 36 degree crown angle. The whiteflash stone would be better. I’d do a search of the CBI inventory for you, but it’s past midnight here in Australia and I’m knackered.

 

[OoohShiny]

Even with 20% VAT on importing a loose stone, I think it's generally fair to say that you can get better diamonds online for a given budget.

Don't forget - you can order the stone online and then take it to a more local jeweller to set into the actual ring - you don't have to buy a ring and a stone from the same place.

 

[lovedogs]

You can definitely find better than the one that was suggested. Whiteflash, or crafted by infinity (the suggestion above to find a local vendor who sells them is great).

 

[OoohShiny]

What are you preferred/required specifications in terms of colour, clarity and carat weight?

Which of the Cs is most important and which are you happiest to compromise on?

 

[Randomer]

Thanks for the replies so far. My priorities for the diamond are cut, along the lines of ‘A Cut Above’ on whiteflash for excellent light performance with the highest carat/size (I realise these are not necessarily the same).
The diamond will have to be eye clean, my biggest compromise is colour.

I was just hoping the diamond I selected with the Hatton garden jeweller would meet PS high standards of cut to save me some time/hassle.

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks for the replies so far. My priorities for the diamond are cut, along the lines of ‘A Cut Above’ on whiteflash for excellent light performance with the highest carat/size (I realise these are not necessarily the same).
The diamond will have to be eye clean, my biggest compromise is colour.

I was just hoping the diamond I selected with the Hatton garden jeweller would meet PS high standards of cut to save me some time/hassle.

The issue is that there's no guarantee that the store diamond is as good as WF (it's probably not), bc Gia is less strict on cut than AGS and you don't have ASET/IS images

 

[Snowdrop13]

I’d also be asking questions about the quality of the sapphires, as they can be hugely variable in colour/clarity/treatment.

 

[Rpb]

How about this one? You can get in touch with one of the CBI dealers in UK and see if they can offer you these...
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10756
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10758
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10763

 

[Austina]

I think you’ll also need to see lower colour stones to see if you’re comfortable with them. I’m not particularly colour sensitive, and have I coloured MRBs, I’ve not seen any lower MRBs IRL. Check out the threads on J & K coloured stones to give you some idea.

 

[partgypsy]

I guess I disagree on this one. It is nice to get everything from one jeweler, one which is local. I know nothing about Hatton Gardens or its reputation, but the diamond they picked out scores high on the HCA, and the color and clarity are very good. Since I don't know how much they are charging you for it, we can't really search for you to determine whether there is a significant price differential for same spec stone including cut quality such as CBI.
The other thing people mention is that sapphires are notorious for being treated. If they did NOT say anything about the sapphire side stones, assume they are treated. It's up to you to research this and decide how important this to you. At the very least you should not be paying top price for stones with possible treatments.

 

[bmfang]

I guess I disagree on this one. It is nice to get everything from one jeweler, one which is local. I know nothing about Hatton Gardens or its reputation, but the diamond they picked out scores high on the HCA, and the color and clarity are very good. Since I don't know how much they are charging you for it, we can't really search for you to determine whether there is a significant price differential for same spec stone including cut quality such as CBI.
The other thing people mention is that sapphires are notorious for being treated. If they did NOT say anything about the sapphire side stones, assume they are treated. It's up to you to research this and decide how important this to you. At the very least you should not be paying top price for stones with possible treatments.

The HCA does score under 2 but my concern is that due to GIA rounding of crown and pavilion angles, there is the potential for the stone to not have as good light return as possible if there are certain angle combos (namely CA actually being above 36 paired with PAs of 40.6 leading up to 40.7 degrees). If the angle combos trend below 36 CA and below 40.6PA, i’m more comfortable with suggesting that stone as being a viable option. If his Hatton Garden vendor can provide him with Idealscope or ASET images, that might allay any concerns I have.

His budget is healthy (around £4.6k). If purchasing a stone from abroad, I think I have seen import duties applicable of 20%, so that means his stone budget goes down to around US$5k.

The stones suggested by @Rpb are all in the process of being cut (one appears to already be on hold for a client). They all may be over the OP’s stone budget depending on what the UK dealers are charging. From what I’m seeing on the HPD website, the only stone around the US$5k mark is that future held 1.06 K SI1. All other stones are sub-0.75ct.

 

[bmfang]

@Randomer could your Hatton Garden jeweller bring in this stone?

GIA 4207129502

 

[Randomer]

Thanks again for reply’s everyone.

Regarding the sapphires, he didn’t tell me whether they were treated. The price of the setting including sapphires was about £700, so they won’t be a significant cost.

The price of the diamond was £5700.

I am in the process of emigrating to Australia where it looks like tax would only be 10% to import from the U.S so I might hold off until I get out there.

 

[bmfang]

If you are moving to Melbourne, then you may want to hold off so you can visit Garry Holloway’s store, Holloway Diamonds.

 

[Randomer]

If you are moving to Melbourne, then you may want to hold off so you can visit Garry Holloway’s store, Holloway Diamonds.

I will be in Melbourne. How is Garry value wise compared to online?

 

[OoohShiny]

WRT colour, will you be the recipient of the ring? Or are you giving it to someone else?

If you are giving it to someone else, you need to be sure they are happy with the lower colours - some people can't see tint, some people can see tint and aren't bothered by it or actively seek it out, and some people see tint and don't like it and avoid it. You need to be sure which the person receiving the ring is!

 

[bmfang]

I will be in Melbourne. How is Garry value wise compared to online?

I live up in Brisbane and I haven’t been to Garry’s store yet.

He is probably one of the few jewellers in Oz that really focuses on cut quality.

 

[kmoro]

Normally I would also recommend Holloway ... Garry certainly knows diamonds!!! No doubt about that ...but .. does anyone know how the below worked out? @ratatat ??? I’ll let you form your own opinion.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...holloway-diamonds-not-great-with-pics.247607/

 

[sledge]

As @bmfang mentioned in post #12, I have concerns with the ACTUAL values of the GIA stone in question. If you aren't aware, the pavilion & crown angles being reported is rounded and averaged, and is based on 8 actual values for each respective property.

To know for sure, you'd want to get an idealscope or ASET image, and if available a SARIN report that shows the actual values. That's pretty rare you'd get all them, but any would be helpful. A hearts & arrows (H&A) image would also confirm symmetry precision, which plays into the equation as well.

I don't put as much stock in the HCA number only. Yes, it scores a 1.9. But the model is based off data from the cert which is rounded & averaged, and then makes it's own set of assumptions. It's a great tool but it's a "best guess", and not an automatic buy it now because it scored less than 2 type scenario. Getting the additional images or SARIN report mentioned above would be your next step in confirming the true quality of the stone.

Also, I wanted to post a screen cap of the HCA score. While it scores a 1.9 which we consider "passing" it only pulls very good in light return & scintillation. Normally we'd like to see excellent for these items. Fire probably got excellent because of the steep 36 crown and complimentary 40.6 pavilion, but again it's based on averaged & rounded values.




If I were in your shoes I'd ask for advanced images, etc. If they can't provide, I'd like to consider a different stone (unless it's in-store and your eyes can confirm it's awesome -- make sure you test under various lighting conditions).

While I love WF, I think there may be some value in working with a UK vendor. This CBI stone would be available at either dealers already listed.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10760

It gives you the same size and color. The clarity is SI1 vs VS2, but CBI has a strong reputation for providing eye clean stones, even when they offer SI2's. So I think you'd be fine with that. Price is about $6,300 USD.

 

[Randomer]

Thanks again for the detailed replies, I have now made the move to Australia so the UK stone is no longer an option in any case.

I have been to some Australian jewellery stores and they are significantly more expensive than what I can get from America.

I have my eye on a few stones, I would be interested on people’s opinions.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4117825.htm

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD12331866?click_id=867847518

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4095775.htm

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....Cut-Round-Diamond/D43189527?&refer=pricescope

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks again for the detailed replies, I have now made the move to Australia so the UK stone is no longer an option in any case.

I have been to some Australian jewellery stores and they are significantly more expensive than what I can get from America.

I have my eye on a few stones, I would be interested on people’s opinions.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4117825.htm

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD12331866?click_id=867847518

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4095775.htm

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....Cut-Round-Diamond/D43189527?&refer=pricescope

I would immediately rejdct the blue Nile one since we don't even have a picture to look at (they show a stock image). The adiamor one looks pretty good. However, the ACA will be better than either of the other ones. If you are open to J color (since the adiamor was a J), look for eye clean ACA stones in J color.

 

[lovedogs]

Like this one

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4037183.htm

 

[Randomer]

After lots of umming and ahhhing, I have decided to go with high performance diamonds.

I had a long think about going for an oec instead but thought it was a bit too much of a gamble buying over the internet when it seems the common consensus is you really need to see them in person.

Initially I wanted to get a three stone ring with two sapphires but a lot of the budget was going towards the setting and the sapphires so I decided to get the best stone I could afford in a solitaire setting.

I figured the setting can be changed in future if need be. This is still a gamble for me as my girlfriend has hinted that she finds solitaires a bit boring/mundane, but I thinking a really nice diamond will win her over.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10740

Thoughts appreciated

 

[lovedogs]

After lots of umming and ahhhing, I have decided to go with high performance diamonds.

I had a long think about going for an oec instead but thought it was a bit too much of a gamble buying over the internet when it seems the common consensus is you really need to see them in person.

Initially I wanted to get a three stone ring with two sapphires but a lot of the budget was going towards the setting and the sapphires so I decided to get the best stone I could afford in a solitaire setting.

I figured the setting can be changed in future if need be. This is still a gamble for me as my girlfriend has hinted that she finds solitaires a bit boring/mundane, but I thinking a really nice diamond will win her over.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10740

Thoughts appreciated

ooooh that's lovely! hooray! I think this stone will be lovely in a solitaire setting, and if your GF wants something more "complex" or detailed, she can add a fun wedding band (like a sapphire one, suggested above).

 

[bmfang]

Excellent choice @Randomer

 

[Dancing Fire]

Beautiful stone!. If she don't want it please give it to me..

 

[OoohShiny]

I feel confident in saying that she will be more than impressed with the performance of a CBI

 

[hypermom]

You did great! Many of us have had to wait for an upgrade to get it right. I've seen a J CBI in person and it was so sparkly.

 

[muesli]

Wow! She is going to be so happy with that stone! Good job!