Real People Are Dying / Trump Kills

[1ofakind]

And no one—not trump, not Pelosi, not The Who, not the cdc, —got this shit right!!!

Yup and that’s not even the whole list. I’ve said several times that there’s plenty of blame to go around...and ignorance and missteps, and if we only knew/understood but didn’t etc. My point has never been about blame or defend blindly...you're right that it serves no purpose. And I certainly don’t expect the government to solve all the problems...but I don’t expect them to cause/contribute to the problems and thats what happened here. Those people (employees as well as residents) didn’t make individual choices, Covid was imposed on them by government policy. If nothing else other cities that may have flare-ups may learn from the mistakes made in the NY nursing homes But like so many others through this pandemic...what a horrific lesson to have learned.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Oh.... I forgot to mention, I have a zoom call to tend to - a discussion panel with The Silicon Valley Association of Republican Women. Busy me!!!

There are Republicans in silicon valley? You should invite Tekate...

 

[arkieb1]

I didn’t say it wasn’t fair to examine, I said it wasn’t fair to blame. The spirit of this thread is to blame government for everything as if... as if we don’t make individual choices daily about every aspect that lead to Covid deaths. Masks, distancing, quarantines, Etc. As if we are so naive that we expect the government to solve all of our problems—bc have they ever??? I’m so sick of the blame game, shame game, etc. But i Guess that shouldn’t discount culpability—except that it really isn’t going to help us survive. Except that no one really understands this damn virus even now! And no one—not trump, not Pelosi, not The Who, not the cdc, —got this shit right!!! As individuals we have to accept this new reality and adapt and prepare like we have always done!

If you want an unbiased viewpoint that is difficult to hear, the Aussie media has interviewed leading medical experts in the US, and leading statisticians in the US and similar experts here, and they do blame Trump for the mismanagement and slow reaction initially to the virus for causing it to spread out of control in some areas in the US....

They do blame your government's mismanagement as directly being responsible for killing more Americans than this thing needs/needed to. Governments in other countries handled it way way better, so it probably is fair and reasonable to expect that other governments should be monitoring what is working and what is not and at least making some effort to follow the lead of those places. I don't think there is much of a line between examining and blaming at this point in time, because examining closely enough leads automatically to blame.

The UK government is also to blame for their current situation and is as much at fault with their mishandling and slow reaction time as the US was, so it's not just the US, it's a number of places world wide.

More than that, our media also blame the American people as a whole, because so many people put their rights, ie their rights to go to clubs, bars, to beaches, their right to protest, their right not to wear masks, and so on ahead of the safety of others. Australians, New Zealanders, and many Asian and European countries don't think of it in the same mindset, we put the "we" ie the welfare of everyone ahead of the "I' the individual, and accept that is going to achieve the best outcome for everyone.

Our media agrees with your POV - they are heavily condemning some of your citizens stances on civil liberties and amendments rights to do as they please and to refuse things like health monitoring and tracking and tracing Apps which are designed to protect the population and attempt to restore some sense of normality back again.

People can be "creeped out" morally offended and outraged at the loss of their privacy all they like but the simple truth is that if an App that monitors the health and wellbeing of all of us is the ONLY way to restore that normality, it's time people got the hell over it. I'll gladly take Big Brother watching me over not being able to send my kids to school, or go to the shops, or do 101 other things that I need to do.

 

[Dancing Fire]

If you want an unbiased viewpoint that is difficult to hear, the Aussie media has interviewed leading medical experts in the US, and leading statisticians in the US and similar experts here, and they do blame Trump for the mismanagement and slow reaction initially to the virus for causing it to spread out of control in some areas in the US....

But not China? . Wonder how they feel about Sweden?

The US should follow Sweden’s approach to combating COVID-19

There is a middle ground approach to COVID-19 that does not create the lose-lose outcome now on offer from some governors.

thehill.com

 

[arkieb1]

But not China? . Wonder how they feel about Sweden?

The US should follow Sweden’s approach to combating COVID-19

There is a middle ground approach to COVID-19 that does not create the lose-lose outcome now on offer from some governors.

thehill.com

I think it depends on where it is in the US, some states with low infection rates should not copy Sweden, some places that have high infection rates ultimately might not have a choice...

I want to also add that I believe Sweden is able to lock down and protect it's elderly and sick far far better than the US would be able to so I'm not sure it's an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Missy]

If you want an unbiased viewpoint that is difficult to hear, the Aussie media has interviewed leading medical experts in the US, and leading statisticians in the US and similar experts here, and they do blame Trump for the mismanagement and slow reaction initially to the virus for causing it to spread out of control in some areas in the US....

They do blame your government's mismanagement as directly being responsible for killing more Americans than this thing needs/needed to. Governments in other countries handled it way way better, so it probably is fair and reasonable to expect that other governments should be monitoring what is working and what is not and at least making some effort to follow the lead of those places. I don't think there is much of a line between examining and blaming at this point in time, because examining closely enough leads automatically to blame.

The UK government is also to blame for their current situation and is as much at fault with their mishandling and slow reaction time as the US was, so it's not just the US, it's a number of places world wide.

More than that, our media also blame the American people as a whole, because so many people put their rights, ie their rights to go to clubs, bars, to beaches, their right to protest, their right not to wear masks, and so on ahead of the safety of others. Australians, New Zealanders, and many Asian and European countries don't think of it in the same mindset, we put the "we" ie the welfare of everyone ahead of the "I' the individual, and accept that is going to achieve the best outcome for everyone.

Our media agrees with your POV - they are heavily condemning some of your citizens stances on civil liberties and amendments rights to do as they please and to refuse things like health monitoring and tracking and tracing Apps which are designed to protect the population and attempt to restore some sense of normality back again.

People can be "creeped out" morally offended and outraged at the loss of their privacy all they like but the simple truth is that if an App that monitors the health and wellbeing of all of us is the ONLY way to restore that normality, it's time people got the hell over it. I'll gladly take Big Brother watching me over not being able to send my kids to school, or go to the shops, or do 101 other things that I need to do.

Yes. Both the government and people are to blame but the government is most at fault for initially misjudging this virus and acting way too slowly killing tens and tens of thousands more than had to die. And also to blame for not enforcing rules to make others safer.

There are ignorant people all over and we have more than our fair share based on what I have been seeing in the USA for a very long time.

Our healthcare system is broken and our political system is (corrupt) broken.
We need our leaders to make smart(er) choices and keep the people safe.

Yes, we all must take personal responsibility for our lives. We also look to the government to keep us safe. We should work as a team. The Government and the People.

Isn't that the role of government? To keep the people safe? Even from ourselves if necessary?

 

[arkieb1]

Yes. Both the government and people are to blame but the government is most at fault for initially misjudging this virus and acting way too slowly killing tens and tens of thousands more than had to die. And also to blame for not enforcing rules to make others safer.

There are ignorant people all over and we have more than our fair share based on what I have been seeing in the USA for a very long time.

Our healthcare system is broken and our political system is (corrupt) broken.
We need our leaders to make smart(er) choices and keep the people safe.

Yes, we all must take personal responsibility for our lives. We also look to the government to keep us safe. We should work as a team. The Government and the People.

Isn't that the role of government? To keep the people safe? Even from ourselves if necessary?

Yes but if the masses or the people want to reopen everything, want their jobs back again, and don't truly comprehend the scale of this virus like you do in New York, and they are the very same people that vote for your politicians, then..... therein lies the problem.

Nala is right to a large degree, it might have started out being Trumps negligence in the beginning but when you have a government that basically doesn't support the most vulnerable in your society on an ordinary day well anyway and you add COVID - 19 to that it becomes a vicious cycle of a cluster F- up of epic proportions.

People have the right to eat, to work, to feel safe and supported and many many people in your society at the moment have had those things taken away from them... if they are scared, angry and unable to do basic things like feed their families, pay rent or mortgages and so on, then we can both see why they value economy over health issues.

Economics 101, people ie the rich and the middle class, pay more money to help those people, more taxes means that those people also will not vote for politicians that impose higher taxes. Again some countries (Europe, Australia, New Zealand) do that very well (sell the idea you pay a heap of tax to support the most vulnerable), others like the US do not, you live in a far more self orientated or self centric society than other countries.... And THAT is also a big part of this problem.

 

[Missy]

@arkieb1 I wrote both are to blame but IMHO the government is most culpable. Some of the politicians seem afraid to put rules in place to keep people safe. Therein lies the problem. We are not in ordinary times. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures and in a way it is an act of war. Against Coronavirus. And I repeat, the government's main role right now IMO is to keep people safe.

Yes. Both the government and people are to blame but the government is most at fault for initially misjudging this virus and acting way too slowly killing tens and tens of thousands more than had to die. And also to blame for not enforcing rules to make others safer.

There are ignorant people all over and we have more than our fair share based on what I have been seeing in the USA for a very long time.

Our healthcare system is broken and our political system is (corrupt) broken.
We need our leaders to make smart(er) choices and keep the people safe.

Yes, we all must take personal responsibility for our lives. We also look to the government to keep us safe. We should work as a team. The Government and the People.

Isn't that the role of government? To keep the people safe? Even from ourselves if necessary?

I am here in NYC living the truth of what is happening. I see it more clearly than perhaps some of you do who are sheltered from the storm so to speak.

 

[arkieb1]

@arkieb1 I wrote both are to blame but IMHO the government is most culpable. Some of the politicians seem afraid to put rules in place to keep people safe. Therein lies the problem. We are not in ordinary times. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures and in a way it is an act of war. Against Coronavirus. And I repeat, the government's main role right now IMO is to keep people safe.


I am here in NYC living the truth of what is happening. I see it more clearly than perhaps some of you do who are sheltered from the storm so to speak.

I feel sorry for anyone that has to live in that environment, I really do, but the reason politicians are going to go with popular opinion is because they want to be re-elected, who elects them? The people do.... so I'm not sure I agree, many people that don't live in New York that live in areas with low infection numbers seem to be the ones putting pressure on your government both the states and at a wider level to reopen things. Look at the posts on here from people that live in those areas, many of their posts reflect that.

As for your leaders, I think it's a combination of things, some of them are too stupid to think the New York and Italy example will ever happen to them and others want to be re-elected so to find the delicate balance I've talked about over and over their version is whatever is going to keep their voters has happy as possible given the situation.

No economy yours or mine is going to handle 1 to 2 years of everything locked down. That''s the sad hard reality people making decisions are faced with.

As far as people go....I don't live in New York and I get it, they don't live in New York and they don't get it or they don't want to get it, or they do get it but they have to work to survive and they don't have a choice....

 

[Missy]

I feel sorry for anyone that has to live in that environment, I really do, but the reason politicians are going to go with popular opinion is because they want to be re-elected, who elects them? The people do.... so I'm not sure I agree, many people that don't live in New York that live in areas with low infection numbers seem to be the ones putting pressure on your government both the states and at a wider level to reopen things.

I don't live in New York and I get it, they don't live in New York and they don't get it or they don't want to get it....

Why are Cuomo and Murphy refusing to make it a rule that one must wear a mask when out. Governor Murphy shed light on this yesterday. He said he wouldn’t know how to enforce it because the police are over extended as it is. Pretty sad. At least say you have to wear a mask if you go out and then more people would. IMO.

During his weekend press conference Murphy said 90% of the people at the park he was in were not wearing masks. #knuckleheads. To use his term.

 

[kenny]

... We need our leaders to make smart(er) choices and keep the people safe. ...

But stupid voters elect stupid leaders.
When there are more stupid voters than smart ones, wez gonna get stupid leaders.

That thar's democracy today.

 

[Dancing Fire]

This virus isn't sentimental; it doesn't give a crap about love or respecting cultural differences.
It only wants to produce children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren ... and so, onto infinity - which BTW is what the same as what humans have demonstrated they want to do too.

IMO I'm looking our for your grandchildren more than you are.

So what would you do if you were in our shoes?

 

[Missy]

But stupid voters elect stupid leaders.
When there are more stupid voters than smart ones, wez gonna get stupid leaders.

That thar's democracy today.

I can’t disagree.

 

[arkieb1]

But stupid voters elect stupid leaders.
When there are more stupid voters than smart ones, wez gonna get stupid leaders.

That thar's democracy today.

@missy - Yes that was exactly my point. And to get re-elected stupid leaders are going to make popularist decisions that the masses all agree with, not the hard ones like shutting things down for longer, or taking money from one sector like your military and channelling it into welfare or small businesses going broke, or having uniform better wider gun control laws.

You summed it up yourself, you can't have better gun control laws because "there is no one to police them properly", similarly you can't have better health care rules and regulations ie masks out in public for the same reason.

Your version of democracy, your version of civil liberties ie every man for himself is overriding the idea that you act as one for the betterment of your society as a whole.

It sucks, it's a non altruistic way of viewing the world and yes I know lots of Americans like you and plenty of others don't think like that, but the sad thing is enough stupid Americans do to have voted people like Trump and other stupid leaders (that will always consider re-election first and foremost) in the first place.

 

[Missy]

@missy - Yes that was exactly my point. And to get re-elected stupid leaders are going to make popularist decisions that the masses all agree with, not the hard ones like shutting things down for longer, or taking money from one sector like your military and channelling it into welfare or small businesses going broke, or having uniform better wider gun control laws.

You summed it up yourself, you can't have better gun control laws because "there is no one to police them properly", similarly you can't have better health care rules and regulations ie masks out in public for the same reason.

Yes. Not arguing with you. Lol. Just venting. Cause if I don’t I might explode.
The masses are @sses.

 

[AGBF]

But stupid voters elect stupid leaders.
When there are more stupid voters than smart ones, wez gonna get stupid leaders.

Yes. Not arguing with you. Lol. Just venting. Cause if I don’t I might explode.
The masses are @sses.

I think both of you, missy and arkieb, are simply saying what kenny said above, but saying it more elegantly. And I agree with all of you.

 

[arkieb1]

Yes. Not arguing with you. Lol. Just venting. Cause if I don’t I might explode.
The masses are @sses.

I'm a cultural historian, scholars in the US and Australia are already analysing the cultural differences in the response by the government and general reactions of our people to the crisis. What I mean by that, is the way most members of each society view what should be done and what the government is doing.

Australia has a very mates help mates, we all pull together in fires and floods and so on, mentality - it's a very real cultural "thing" that's difficult to describe but underpins who we are as a people. Our government draws on that bombarding us with advertising, text messages and so on that we all need to do x or y to stay safe for the betterment and protection of everyone. They market it as a united effort. Sure some people are idiots and break the rules but by in large the masses agree and go along with what they are told.

Every morning on the television here, each State leader gets up and speaks about what their numbers are how they are doing, what the overall plan is, every single day, I live in one state I can watch the response live of my leader, but also of the leaders in the rest of the states as well. They tell us how we are going, what rules are still in place and why, and when they might be relaxed and changed or why they won't be each day so people understand what is going on.

I really like the NSW Premier (different state to where I live), the first things she says every single day is "I want to thank all of the people in my State and in Australia for doing the right thing" our numbers are x......

The US has two glaring differences the first (you are correct), is a distinct lack of good solid leadership and response to both the health crisis AND the economic crisis. Some states are doing better than others but there isn't a unified response like there is here.

You guys have a very different cultural "vibe" if you like, that draws very heavily from your constitution, that no one is going to "take" your civil liberties away from you, no one is going to tell you what to do over a sustained period of time and get away with it. The masses are @asses but it's not just stupidity, this "right" to freedom, means that people in the US believe no one has the right to tell them to wear a mask irrespective of the circumstances, or not to party on beaches and so on.

So the masses are @asses with rights and no one is going to take them away from them, even if it means lots of people die from a virus they don't really understand.

I compare it to gun control, no one is going to take away your guns for the betterment of everyone in society because the right to have firearms in the eyes of the masses overrides the right for everyone to be safe. This is different but still similar, the right to do whatever people want overrides the health threat in the eyes of the masses.

 

[Calliecake]

No state has met the White House criteria for reopening. Although I guess that doesn’t matter as its being reported today the White House has shelved the CDC guidelines for reopening the country.

 

[nala]

Hi @arkieb1. I don’t know that we can ever even begin to emulate your country due to all the fundamental differences, sheer size being probably the most defining factor, followed by social inequality, and our capitalistic nature. Then when you throw in racism, you can clearly see how some ethnicities find it dangerous to wear a mask for fear they will be viewed as dangerous! There was an article about how social distancing was being enforced unfairly in Manhattan vs the Bronx (I believe) on the exact same day! Ugh.
I can’t speak for the rest of the country, but I’m satisfied with my governor and my state’s handling of this virus. And there are many other states that are doing well as well because I think geography plays a major role in containing this virus. I believe that your country is ideal even in that, right?
What is your country’s plan to handle the long term effects of this shut down? How will schools address the learning gap? Are you guys seeing a rise in suicide? Does your economy rely on tourism and will the lack of it devastate your economy? Do you guys have a healthier population in terms of obesity? Since obesity can lead to heart disease and diabetes, both of which increase the odds of comorbidity and death by Covid. Is that the result of a national nutritional campaign? Bc believe me, that is one aspect I think that as individuals we could all improve to better our odds! And finally, what kind of family structure do you guys have in terms of caring for the elderly?

I don’t mean to overwhelm you with all my questions . Lol. I was just musing but would love to hear your thoughts when you find the time.

 

[Karl_K]

I comes back to the lack of leadership.
The federal government is checked out and the state governors are acting like dictators and people are telling them to get bent.
The media reporting conflicting information and giving every crackpot who calls themselves a scientist a forum is not helping.
There is no unified messaging and 0 leadership.

 

[JPie]

I think both of you, missy and arkieb, are simply saying what kenny said above, but saying it more elegantly. And I agree with all of you.

This is the simplest way of looking at it and absolutely true. I’ll add on top of that gerrymandering in non-presidential elections, and the Electoral College.

The real tyranny threatening our country is the tyranny of the minority of stupid voters.

 

[Missy]

@arkieb1 like @nala I am satisfied with the way NY and NJ governors are handling things. Is it perfect? No. But we are huge states with dense population and we have major differences compared to let's say Australia. And I also want to emphasize people here share a help others mentality. One only has to look at the crises we have all endured to see people coming from all over (the USA) to help others.

Do I like our President? No. Do I respect our President? No. Did I vote for him? Hell no.
Do I love our country? Yes. Despite all our drawbacks I am still an American and I am not ashamed to be an American. Am I disappointed in the way we have handled things as a country? Yes.Can we do things better? Hell yes.

The real tyranny threatening our country is the tyranny of the minority of stupid voters.

I agree wholeheartedly @JPie.

One big mistake as I see it is we (USA) failed to close our borders to Europe in Feb and March and while we closed our borders to China we neglected a very important source of the infection. People traveling from Europe to the East Coast (including NY) and infecting us. And the infection spread like wildfire.

Do I love my Australian friends, my New Zealand friends, my Canadian friends and my European friends? Hell yes. I have friends all over the world and there are pluses and minuses to each country. There is no perfect system and I am the first one to say hey we are doing things wrong but I will not bash Americans. They are some of the best people I am privileged to know.

 

[JPie]

I comes back to the lack of leadership.
The federal government is checked out and the state governors are acting like dictators and people are telling them to get bent.
The media reporting conflicting information and giving every crackpot who calls themselves a scientist a forum is not helping.
There is no unified messaging and 0 leadership.

State governors have had to step in precisely because there is a lack of leadership at the federal level. Governors haven’t been acting like dictators; the fact is that most people support continued shelter-in-place measures. As recently as last week, 76% of Georgians were in favor of SIP according to one survey: https://www.redandblack.com/uganews...cle_90dea2fe-89ce-11ea-9e10-4f2f987e1cec.html

There’s been a disproportionate amount of media attention on the minority of people who are against SIP. According to these white supremacist and other right wing groups, the governors are tyrants. If you follow the money, you begin to see that their motivation is more sinister than fighting for liberty.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/far-right-coronavirus-protests-restrictions

 

[nala]

Thank you for answering my questions guys!

It's just as I suspected! We are not all that different and do want to move forward as best as we can.

I think sometimes on a forum there can be misunderstandings whereby someone like me (who is more of a risk taker) will misinterpret and think that a more cautious member wants me to be locked up forever to save themselves.

Likewise a more cautious member might think I'm off illegally gallivanting around partying at sushi bars without a mask because of my lax attitude.

The truth is nowhere near as drastic!

I didn’t get a chance to answer but I would have replied that when restaurants open I will go and I won’t be bothered by those who do or don’t. I think that it’s time that we realize that the risk of contracting Covid is no different than any other risk that comes from living in a society. At some point we can only control what we do as we can’t control others. We trust society every time we set out to drive, send our kids to school, take a flight, etc. We surrender our control because of society and though each surrender does not have the same likelihood to result in a fatality, some still do. I think I’m a lot like you when it comes to risk bc I live in earthquake central!!! Lol. Last year we had some really scary ones! And yet, here we are, enjoying So Cal’s weather and lifestyle.

 

[1ofakind]

Our governor has declared that we will not fully reopen until there is a vaccine, a fully effective and widely available treatment or ZERO new cases (not deaths but cases) over a long sustained time period.
Those first two scenarios may NEVER happen And unless this thing just fizzles out the last option could be many months.

That was not what we were told when this all started. It was supposed to be to prevent the hospital systems from being overwhelmed. Now here we are after 2 months of lockdown and many unemployed and now we are told it may never end. That the goal is now ZERO CASES. We don’t have any hope of even close to ‘normal’ until at least July, likely later for many areas because his determined regions all include at least one hot spot (one in our region is over 4 hours from us!). I have to think that was done on purpose so practically none of the state can open up. He refuses to let each county self regulate within the broader guidelines if they are doing well..some of our counties have given him proposals and he rejects them outright. True a few areas of our state are hit pretty hard but most of the state is not. Some counties have yet to see a single case and many more have few cases with zero deaths. We’ve done what we‘ve been asked to do and overall accomplished the original goal. Not only are our hospitals not overwhelmed, they are empty. Yet our governor sees this as an opportunity to achieve his long desired tax hikes. He’s practically giddy about it and speaking publicly about how this is his chance. The worse our state economy gets the better he thinks it is for his political agenda and chances of getting a federal bailout for programs that have been mismanaged for many decades.

THAT is why some people are getting tired and mad. Not because they are stupid or selfish. Not because they don’t understand science or because they don’t care about their neighbors or communities. Because they feel that the government that is supposed to be responsive to their actual needs is dismissing that in favor of their own political motivations. One persons perspective....

 

[Demon]

Our governor has declared that we will not fully reopen until there is a vaccine, a fully effective and widely available treatment or ZERO new cases (not deaths but cases) over a long sustained time period.
Those first two scenarios may NEVER happen And unless this thing just fizzles out the last option could be many months.

That was not what we were told when this all started. It was supposed to be to prevent the hospital systems from being overwhelmed. Now here we are after 2 months of lockdown and many unemployed and now we are told it may never end. That the goal is now ZERO CASES. We don’t have any hope of even close to ‘normal’ until at least July, likely later for many areas because his ‘set in stone’ regions all include at least one hot spot (one in our region is over 4 hours from us!). He refuses to let each county self regulate within the broader guidelines if they are doing well..some of our counties have given him proposals and he rejects them outright. True a few areas of our state are hit pretty hard but most of the state is not. Some counties have yet to see a single case and many more have few cases with zero deaths. We’ve done what we‘ve been asked to do and overall accomplished the original goal. Not only are our hospitals not overwhelmed, they are empty. Yet our governor sees this as an opportunity to achieve his long desired tax hikes. He’s practically giddy about it and speaking publicly about how this is his chance. The worse our state economy gets the better he thinks it is for his political agenda and chances of getting a federal bailout for programs that have been mismanaged for many decades.

THAT is why some people are getting tired and mad. Not because they are stupid or selfish. Not because they don’t understand science or because they don’t care about their neighbors or communities. Because they feel that the government that is supposed to be responsive to their actual needs is dismissing that in favor of their own political motivations. One persons perspective....

What state are you in? I'm only asking because I haven't heard of any governor saying it needs to be 0 cases before opening. I'm not questioning that your's said that, I'm just curious.

 

[1ofakind]

Illinois. We are in phase 2 now. It will be difficult for most of his regions to get out Of phase 3 and there’s a minimum of 28 days between each phase. At this rate we are looking at 3-6 more months unless he backs down a little or this virus disappears on it’s own.

Phase 5
What it means: With a vaccine or highly effective treatment widely available or the elimination of any new cases over a sustained period, the economy fully reopens with safety precautions continuing.

When it begins: The only way Phase 5 will begin is with a vaccine, or a widely available and highly effective treatment, or with the elimination of any new cases over a sustained period.

What's allowed: Conventions, festivals and large events are permitted, and all businesses, schools, and places of recreation can open.

 

[redwood66]

Illinois. We are in phase 2 now. It will be difficult for most of his regions to get out Of phase 3....and there’s a minimum of 28 days between each phase.

Phase 5
What it means: With a vaccine or highly effective treatment widely available or the elimination of any new cases over a sustained period, the economy fully reopens with safety precautions continuing.

When it begins: The only way Phase 5 will begin is with a vaccine, or a widely available and highly effective treatment, or with the elimination of any new cases over a sustained period.

What's allowed: Conventions, festivals and large events are permitted, and all businesses, schools, and places of recreation can open.

Wow this will kill any event venue in your state. Sports, concerts, plays, the list is endless.

 

[Demon]

Zero cases for a sustained period. Wh

Illinois. We are in phase 2 now. It will be difficult for most of his regions to get out Of phase 3 and there’s a minimum of 28 days between each phase. At this rate we are looking at 3-6 more months unless he backs down a little or this virus disappears on it’s own.

Phase 5
What it means: With a vaccine or highly effective treatment widely available or the elimination of any new cases over a sustained period, the economy fully reopens with safety precautions continuing.

When it begins: The only way Phase 5 will begin is with a vaccine, or a widely available and highly effective treatment, or with the elimination of any new cases over a sustained period.

What's allowed: Conventions, festivals and large events are permitted, and all businesses, schools, and places of recreation can open.

Zero cases for a sustained period.....How long is his sustained period? Does he mean 28 days? Or like a week or two?

 

[1ofakind]

Zero cases for a sustained period. Wh


Zero cases for a sustained period.....How long is his sustained period? Does he mean 28 days? Or like a week or two?

He has not stated a timeframe for this. And if some cases pop up he’ll knock us down to a previous phase.