Real People Are Dying / Trump Kills

[JPie]

@Calliecake I hope you have a better day tomorrow.

 

[OboeGal]

Why are you admonishing her and not the others in this thread for the past few pages? Why do you not tell them to stop? She didn't say "all liberals" anything. No one but DF does that and he is being facetious.

This kind of thinking? HO is loaded with this kind of thinking you are complaining about. I don't hate anyone so don't speak for me.

She is trying to make the point that because of some liberals' posts, conservatives are justified in rejecting attempts by other liberals to ask questions of them and learn more about their perspective, as the environment is hostile. My point in response is asking her, and others here, to not judge one liberal by the actions of another - take us, and respond to us, as the individuals that we are - just like you don't want anyone assuming that you hate others. Which I wasn't, by the way - my post was directed to those to whom it applies, of whatever political persuasion, which isn't necessarily everyone who happens to read it.

 

[AGBF]

"Refusing to accept the results of an election" became a popular phrase among Trump supporters who wanted to bait anyone who was unhappy with him. Naturally, short of a coup d'état, there is no way that we can refuse to accept the results of the election. If there were some legitimate means, don't you think we would have put it into effect and saved the country by now? I am not sure why the phrase riles people up. It makes me wistful.

 

[redwood66]

She is trying to make the point that it's unreasonable for any one of the liberals here to ask for more enlightenment as to the position of any of the conservatives, because the "dark humor" of some liberals, and other posts, I suppose, have created a hostile environment And there are others here who've done it, on both sides. The country is full of people doing it. My post is addressed to everyone who's doing it.

Your post was addressed to her because you quoted her and told her to stop. If your post is for everyone then you should address everyone. It would lend more credence if you policed posters who agree with your political leanings. The country is full of people doing it and quite a few are right here.

 

[Dancing Fire]

. When they go low, you should go high. Yes, I know (fill in the posters) do it and yada yada yada. You can be the bigger person and stop this carnage of words or you can continue to contribute to it.

Nope wrong!

 

[OboeGal]

Your post was addressed to her because you quoted her and told her to stop. If your post is for everyone then you should address everyone. It would lend more credence if you policed posters who agree with your political leanings. The country is full of people doing it and quite a few are right here.

I replied to her post because it was an example of "broad-brush painting." I never said it was the only example. In fact, I proceeded to make it clear in the content of my post that people from both camps are guilty of it. Here and elsewhere. I'm pretty sure I've been guilty of it at times, although I'm really trying to combat that type of thinking, because it's so malignant. It's the same kind of thinking that underlies racism, sexism, persecution based on religion, on and on.

If anyone misunderstood that I was addressing everyone, I'll say it yet again: to all - if you find yourself viewing others this way, please stop.

 

[Matata]

Nope wrong!

I don't agree with Holder and find that type of response repugnant. That "eye for an eye" mentality leads to nothing good.

 

[1ofakind]

I hav

I replied to her post because it was an example of "broad-brush painting." I never said it was the only example. In fact, I proceeded to make it clear in the content of my post that people from both camps are guilty of it. Here and elsewhere. I'm pretty sure I've been guilty of it at times, although I'm really trying to combat that type of thinking, because it's so malignant. It's the same kind of thinking that underlies racism, sexism, persecution based on religion, on and on.

If anyone misunderstood that I was addressing everyone, I'll say it yet again: to all - if you find yourself viewing others this way, please stop.

You brought up specific people, not me. I didn’t ( and often don’t) respond to a person by name because my intention is not to start an argument with a specific person but respond to a topic/concept.

I also qualified my statement with “some“ and “many“ to intentionally avoid painting everyone with the same broad brush as you then accused. The same broad brush you then used to paint me with “this kind of thinking...”. And then you double down with a paintbrush in both hands and a fresh gallon of paint to further describe what you’ve inaccurately accused me of as being malignant and throw in racism, sexism, religious persecution. Wow, Ok.

Then in yet another post you felt free to declare the point I was trying to make, speaking for me when I’d already spoken for myself.

I do hope you keep up the effort to avoid doing this yourself but I don’t think you succeeded here.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@arkieb1 I don't know much about but I feel really sorry for Hazel. She got shafted didn't she?

Do you remember the Howard vs Latham election?

I've never let Hubby forget it. He really wanted me to vote Latham and I was like "There's something really off about that guy. I'm voting Howard."

Years later we discovered he was a total nutbag!!!!! Like way nuttier than Tony Abbot even.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@the_mother_thing:




Right there - the section that @missy quoted in her reply, to which she responded that she didn't care for your tone.

Are you serious? You equate “dislike of tone” with “bullying”?


Legit “bullying“ has a three-pronged definition - per the “Science”. If you aren’t familiar with it, perhaps you can do some light reading on the subject. Further, it’s my belief that people who abuse terms like “bullying” (and “racism”, since you brought that up in a later post) every time someone’s feelings are hurt or they merely object to another’s opinion dilute their meaning and do an incredible disservice to and trivialize legitimate acts of those offenses.

She is trying to make the point that because of some liberals' posts, conservatives are justified in rejecting attempts by other liberals to ask questions of them and learn more about their perspective, as the environment is hostile. My point in response is asking her, and others here, to not judge one liberal by the actions of another - take us, and respond to us, as the individuals that we are - just like you don't want anyone assuming that you hate others. Which I wasn't, by the way - my post was directed to those to whom it applies, of whatever political persuasion, which isn't necessarily everyone who happens to read it.

Just today and before you posted that, I attempted your very “take us and respond to us” approach in my post/question directly to Missy, specifically and simply asking for her opinion to something she posted. For whatever reason, AGBF felt compelled to inject herself into that exchange feigning her usual faux outrage on someone else’s behalf based on half-baked assumptions; followed by the usual gang of vultures circling with their matches, and just like good little “stronger together” soldiers, they created yet another “Political-Scope” dumpster fire. Simply put - it was precisely the behavior you assert @1ofakind was attempting to justify, only the cast of characters holding the matches wasn’t forum “conservatives”.

Now, back to your unsolicited opinion-response to me earlier today:

I've been "legit-embarrassed" for you for some time for your consistent bullying of, and condescension toward, other posters.

You - like AGBF - did the exact same thing ... only here, you took my response to AGBF, and I suppose you’re just itching for another whiff of the sulfur upon igniting your own match.

Again, I suggest you do some research on what the actual definition of “bullying” entails so you can stop with your own faux outrage. Further, your suggestion I’m “condescending” is laughable ... especially on a jewelry forum rich with self-righteous posters who will sooner admonish you for failing to adhere to CEDA debate rules than buying a GIA “good” diamond with the expectation of ideal performance.

Before we conclude here, let me guess ... you also view my responses to you above to be “condescending“? Just know, before you leap to “lib-label” my use of gifs, those are sarcasm.

 

[MarionC]

Woke up to seven new pages and OMG WTF

I was feeling guilty for not engaging my sister since the election, but this thread has cured me.

I am the most unpolitical person you will ever meet, a complete idiot and hardly understand anything. I only know two people who voted for Trump, so I really would like to understand, because their reasons for their votes were; gun rights and making America white. There certainly must be intelligent people who voted for him for better reasons than that.
But I think it will be impossible to have the question answered because it is so triggering.
I would honestly like to know what people see when he is up there talking. A smart kind man? A strong leader? What am I missing.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Woke up to seven new pages and OMG WTF

I was feeling guilty for not engaging my sister since the election, but this thread has cured me.

I am the most unpolitical person you will ever meet, a complete idiot and hardly understand anything. I only know two people who voted for Trump, so I really would like to understand, because their reasons for their votes were; gun rights and making America white. There certainly must be intelligent people who voted for him for better reasons than that.
But I think it will be impossible to have the question answered because it is so triggering.
I would honestly like to know what people see when he is up there talking. A smart kind man? A strong leader? What am I missing.

I sincerely appreciate and respect your posing this question earnestly, so I will attempt to respond - from my viewpoint only. But it’s not a simple question to answer ... and no, it’s not “because his combover’s sexy”.

I think the first clarification you (and Missy) might consider accepting in asking this is: just because someone doesn’t vote “Democrat” does not mean they “support Trump”; in other words, just because our “first choice” didn't get the nod, doesn’t mean we abandon all other principles that lead to something other than an ”D” on our voter registration. For the record, and as is easily verifiable via a search from my 2016 posts, I supported and primary-voted for Ted Cruz in 2016. And, It’s been stated many times on here by some brave enough to admit it that we voted for Trump while pinching our noses. From the sounds of things, a few Demorats admit facing the same predicament for Biden and for similar reasons, so perhaps they can articulate another perspective if/when they do, assuming he actually makes it to the convention, gets the nod, then makes it to November (I have my doubts).

I think it’d also be helpful to first consider how those who ask this question define the term “support”. Does it mean make campaign donations? Volunteer for the campaign? Knock on doors/make calls on behalf of candidate? Wear a MAGA-hat? Attend a MAGA-rally? Plaster your car with bumper stickers? To me, all of these things would or could equate to “support” for a candidate. I do NONE of those things; therefore, I do not consider myself to “support“ Trump. I do think people infer my comments about what I view to be right/wrong, fair/unfair, reasonable/unreasonable as “supporting Trump”, but that’s only because I don’t personally find much right/fair/reasonable about those representing the Democratic party, especially the last 12 years. But to be clear, race (e.g. “make America white” as you put it) had ZERO to do with my decision - I’d have happily welcomed a President Condoleezza Rice/Tim Scott/Ben Carson/Allen West to name a few. Only one of them ran in 2016, and while I would LOVE to sit and just talk with Ben Carson some day, I knew he sadly was “too gentle” for the job, and he would've gotten eaten alive in no time if he got the nod.

So, I pinched my nose because: 1) my guy didn’t get the nod; 2) under NO circumstances to include water boarding nor any other form of inhumane, painful torture would I ever consider voting for Hillary Clinton; and, 3) under NO circumstances - to include the threats in #2 plus naturally birthing septuplets each weighing 12+lbs - did I want Hillary Clinton to end up as President. So I did what I had to do to get two things I wanted out of the 2016 election - to not end up with a “President Hillary Clinton“; and, retain a far better chance of maintaining other matters of importance to me: the courts, the constitution, and preservation of my rights and freedoms which so many I love and care about fought to defend/preserve, as did I. I could not ever - in good conscience nor based on my principles, values and beliefs - vote for someone, or a party that demonstrated a willingness (IMO) to whittle away at our rights, and yes, for me, that includes 2A. Seeing the injustice committed against LT. Gen. Flynn reaffirms for me that - while I held my nose - I’m glad I did so because there is no way the crooked behaviors of historically-trusted agencies would every have seeN the light of day.

Now, this brings me to the real question ... that is not being asked, but should/would if Democrats weren’t so blindly hell-bent on “never-Trump”ing themselves toward another loss in November and four additional years of Dems screaming “orange man bad” to anyone who will listen.

I’m really not sure I can/should give it away just yet, even though I see no candidate on the left (including Sleepy Joe) capable of defeating Trump. So, any guesses ... before I give it up?

 

[MarionC]

I sincerely appreciate and respect your posing this question earnestly, so I will attempt to respond - from my viewpoint only. But it’s not a simple question to answer ... and no, it’s not “because his combover’s sexy”.

I think the first clarification you (and Missy) might consider accepting in asking this is: just because someone doesn’t vote “Democrat” does not mean they “support Trump”; in other words, just because our “first choice” didn't get the nod, doesn’t mean we abandon all other principles that lead to something other than an ”D” on our voter registration. For the record, and as is easily verifiable via a search from my 2016 posts, I supported and primary-voted for Ted Cruz in 2016. And, It’s been stated many times on here by some brave enough to admit it that we voted for Trump while pinching our noses. From the sounds of things, a few Demorats admit facing the same predicament for Biden and for similar reasons, so perhaps they can articulate another perspective if/when they do, assuming he actually makes it to the convention, gets the nod, then makes it to November (I have my doubts).

I think it’d also be helpful to first consider how those who ask this question define the term “support”. Does it mean make campaign donations? Volunteer for the campaign? Knock on doors/make calls on behalf of candidate? Wear a MAGA-hat? Attend a MAGA-rally? Plaster your car with bumper stickers? To me, all of these things would or could equate to “support” for a candidate. I do NONE of those things; therefore, I do not consider myself to “support“ Trump. I do think people infer my comments about what I view to be right/wrong, fair/unfair, reasonable/unreasonable as “supporting Trump”, but that’s only because I don’t personally find much right/fair/reasonable about those representing the Democratic party, especially the last 12 years. But to be clear, race (e.g. “make America white” as you put it) had ZERO to do with my decision - I’d have happily welcomed a President Condoleezza Rice/Tim Scott/Ben Carson/Allen West to name a few. Only one of them ran in 2016, and while I would LOVE to sit and just talk with Ben Carson some day, I knew he sadly was “too gentle” for the job, and he would've gotten eaten alive in no time if he got the nod.

So, I pinched my nose because: 1) my guy didn’t get the nod; 2) under NO circumstances to include water boarding nor any other form of inhumane, painful torture would I ever consider voting for Hillary Clinton; and, 3) under NO circumstances - to include the threats in #2 plus naturally birthing septuplets each weighing 12+lbs - did I want Hillary Clinton to end up as President. So I did what I had to do to get two things I wanted out of the 2016 election - to not end up with a “President Hillary Clinton“; and, retain a far better chance of maintaining other matters of importance to me: the courts, the constitution, and preservation of my rights and freedoms which so many I love and care about fought to defend/preserve, as did I. I could not ever - in good conscience nor based on my principles, values and beliefs - vote for someone, or a party that demonstrated a willingness (IMO) to whittle away at our rights, and yes, for me, that includes 2A. Seeing the injustice committed against LT. Gen. Flynn reaffirms for me that - while I held my nose - I’m glad I did so because there is no way the crooked behaviors of historically-trusted agencies would every have seeN the light of day.

Now, this brings me to the real question ... that is not being asked, but should/would if Democrats weren’t so blindly hell-bent on “never-Trump”ing themselves toward another loss in November and four additional years of Dems screaming “orange man bad” to anyone who will listen.

I’m really not sure I can/should give it away just yet, even though I see no candidate on the left (including Sleepy Joe) capable of defeating Trump. So, any guesses ... before I give it up?

Thank you, the_mother_thing. I appreciate your thoughtful answer. I wish I could have a rational conversation with my family members in this manner.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@arkieb1 what is this with your government trying to buy an airline??? Seems like an ok idea to me! Do you know why Dutton went mental at them?

Sorry guys I have a lot of questions to ask arkieb and I don't know where to go!

 

[AGBF]

I am not sure why you think other posters on an open forum have to have their opinions solicited by you before they have a right to post them.

By the way, how did you determine my state of mind in order to draw the conclusion that I "feigned" my "false outrage" (redundant)? (If you read what I posted about missy, it was pretty calm.I don't sound "outraged" to me. I certainly didn't put any photos of people with wild hair screaming into my posting for effect, either.)

Just today and before you posted that, I attempted your very “take us and respond to us” approach in my post/question directly to Missy, specifically and simply asking for her opinion to something she posted. For whatever reason, AGBF felt compelled to inject herself into that exchange feigning her usual faux outrage on someone else’s behalf based on half-baked assumptions; followed by the usual gang of vultures circling with their matches, and just like good little “stronger together” soldiers, they created yet another “Political-Scope” dumpster fire. Simply put - it was precisely the behavior you assert @1ofakind was attempting to justify, only the cast of characters holding the matches wasn’t forum “conservatives”.

Now, back to your unsolicited opinion-response to me earlier today:


You - like AGBF - did the exact same thing ...

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Yeah while I know literally zero Trump supporters who defend or advocate for his actions, I do know a few people who voted for him along party lines as they felt the court seats took priority. Basically feeling they can tolerate 4 years of unclear risk for lifetime terms of conservative judges that they felt upheld their values and beliefs.

And honestly, I can empathize with that feeling. As a pro-choice, queer, immigrant, atheistic woman, the sense of fear I have in relation to court cases relating to those freedoms and the marginalized communities I belong to is very real, and I could see myself voting for any democratic candidate, however ridiculous I found them, if it meant a coup in the courts and a liberal leaning supreme court that I felt would protect me and my family. The people voting for the same reason on the 'conservative' side I imagine feel a similar sense of fear (maybe not the literal fear for their lives, but certainly their livelihoods and lifestyles). I would like to think they can also empathize with their liberal colleagues in an "agree to disagree" way as well. Realistically though, when it feels like decisions that impact your literal survival are at stake I think it really makes it hard to not let it get personal or feel persecuted by the other side. Especially since historically speaking, many minorites were in fact persecuted and needed court rulings to grant them protections against majority preference.

To quote Ben Franklin : Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” I imagine every person that reads this probably pictures themselves as the lamb... Myself included. And while I can understand it's nothing personal that the wolves want to eat me to survive, I certainly am not in agreement with letting it happen lol. Lets talk about maybe shifting to a Beyond Burger food chain...

 

[Jambalaya]

I love the variety and natural beauty of America, and so many other things about it.

The removal of the pre-existing conditions clause in health insurance was a huge step forward, as was the election of America's first president who was a person of color. I strongly dislike Trump, but his administration won't go on forever - and the fact that Hillary got three million more votes than Trump always comforts me.

Maybe I'm being naive, but it makes me happier to think positively and count all the good things about America instead of focusing only on the bad.

 

[alittlelight]

I am feeling like a very scared puppy peeking in at the door here, and I swore I wasn’t coming back to any of these threads. But it saddens me to no end that, when the infamous Battle of the Bleach is referenced, it is my phrase “dark humor” that is bandied about like a Scarlet A to label a huge swathe of PSers as unfeeling, terrible people. Once again, I can only say that I am sorry so many people felt so disrespected and hurt that day. But I am an English major, for God’s sake. I was referring to satire. Please read Jonathan Swift’s An Indecent Proposal. Just as Swift never really meant for anyone to eat babies, no one here was even remotely suggesting anyone should actually drink bleach and die.
Peace.

 

[alittlelight]

Maybe it wasn’’t very GOOD or subtle satire — no one here is Swift, after all. And if there was anyone here who really did feel murderous and hateful that day (since I cannot see into everyone’s hearts), well, I hereby disassociate myself from them!

 

[Jambalaya]

Just skimming posts bc there are so many. But I saw something about Australia wanting to buy an airline. Why? Is this a good thing or a bad thing? There is precedent. British Airways used to be called BOAC and was owned by the UK government (I think). Anyone remember that song, Montego Bay? "Vernon'll meet me when the BOAC lands/Keys to the MG will be in his hands." I had to look up BOAC, so that's how I know.

 

[alittlelight]

Oh my gosh, haha, it is A Modest Proposal, not Indecent Proposal — that is a bad Demi Moore movie, hahahahaha

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Just skimming posts bc there are so many. But I saw something about Australia wanting to buy an airline. Why? Is this a good thing or a bad thing? There is precedent. British Airways used to be called BOAC and was owned by the UK government (I think). Anyone remember that song, Montego Bay? "Vernon'll meet me when the BOAC lands/Keys to the MG will be in his hands." I had to look up BOAC, so that's how I know.

I thought it was a good thing. The state of Queensland wants to buy it. I figure if they buy it and employ people that's pretty good.

But the Federal minister went off at them for putting in a bid. He's a pretty nasty dude though so it's within the realm of normal for him!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I will also say, that voting for a candidate "under duress" still means voting for them and the idea of "well I didn't vote for the aspects of his platform/actions I didn't agree with" doesn't absolve from the fact that that vote still placed that person in the position of power to have the impact they did. When you vote someone into power, you vote in the whole person. I don't think any of the people I knew who voted Trump approved of his border wall nonsense or unsavory personal history, none of them are malicious people, they "voted their conscience" as the saying goes, in a situation where there was no candidate that didn't offend some aspect of their conscience. I think it's ok to say "I voted for him for these reasons, I hate though the way he's doing these other things". In the 2020 election, I consider it my job to convince them that the reasons they voted for him wasn't worth all the unantipicated harm and that the conscience-math doesn't work this time knowing what we know now. The tactic of "why can't you just admit you're a terrible hateful racist" over simplifies the nuances involved into a good guy/bad guy stance. And nobody views themselves as the bad guys.

I think it's also tough because fear and anger are strong emotions and motivates voters, and lets be honest, both parties are in the business of garnering power so both are trying to manufacture as much of it against the opposing party as possible. Sigh. I feel like things would go better if people started from a mutual understanding that everyone is starting from a place of good intent. Those that aren't, who want to just see the other side burn, have likely lost hope in themselves and could also use sympathy, as difficult as it may be. But this approach takes time and patience and doesn't win you elections as easy as convincing people that lean your direction to hate the other side at all costs because they hate you.

Of course, when someone is yelling racial slurs at me on the street, it's real hard to remember to keep all this in mind, and I also get a little yelly...I'm workin on it.
Funnily when it happens at work, I don't get angry at all. I suspect because at work the power differential is so clearly in my favor (i'm the doctor, they're the patient) and that person is clearly having a really bad day.

 

[1ofakind]

@alittlelight I sincerely hope you see that in recalling that thread I did not single out anyone specifically. Outside of the OP and a very few other posts I don’t even recall who said what, including your comment. Although what was said is harder to forget.

Also LOL...Indecent Proposal...it took me twice to read that realizing it wasn’t right but not catching why.

 

[Jambalaya]

Oh my gosh, haha, it is A Modest Proposal, not Indecent Proposal — that is a bad Demi Moore movie, hahahahaha

I looked it up and found out its real title, but I didn't like to say! Hahahahaa!

 

[Jambalaya]

Of course, when someone is yelling racial slurs at me on the street, it's real hard to remember to keep all this in mind, and I also get a little yelly...I'm workin on it.
Funnily when it happens at work, I don't get angry at all. I suspect because at work the power differential is so clearly in my favor (i'm the doctor, they're the patient) and that person is clearly having a really bad day.

That's terrible, MTG. Truly terrible. I'm so sorry that this has ever happened to you. Just remember that the person yelling such a thing probably hates themselves more than they could ever hate you - and probably only has two brain cells to rub together, too.

 

[Jambalaya]

I think it's important to remember that no country is perfect. Meghan Markle moved to a European country, and she couldn't get back to America fast enough.

Despite Trump's presidency, we have had our first president who's a person of color and three million votes more for a woman than for Trump. And Obamacare still stands. Also, when injustices are committed, people turn out in droves to protest, like the arrests in Georgia last week. People here won't put up with unfairness anymore. Look at all the other marches and protests during Trump's presidency.

We're not perfect, but we're working on it. Look how far we've come since the Fifties/Sixties. America has led the world's LGBTQ rights campaign, too, particularly trans rights.

And while we're working on it, we get to live in a country of stunning natural beauty, infinite variety, and a much lower cost of living than the majority of developed countries.

 

[alittlelight]

Not at all @1ofakind , I did not feel called out by you. I am feeling my way here and really realizing that glib, off the cuff comments hurt real people. I was thinking back to my own contributions to that thread and hoping to clarify further.

 

[redwood66]

I sincerely appreciate and respect your posing this question earnestly, so I will attempt to respond - from my viewpoint only. But it’s not a simple question to answer ... and no, it’s not “because his combover’s sexy”.

I think the first clarification you (and Missy) might consider accepting in asking this is: just because someone doesn’t vote “Democrat” does not mean they “support Trump”; in other words, just because our “first choice” didn't get the nod, doesn’t mean we abandon all other principles that lead to something other than an ”D” on our voter registration. For the record, and as is easily verifiable via a search from my 2016 posts, I supported and primary-voted for Ted Cruz in 2016. And, It’s been stated many times on here by some brave enough to admit it that we voted for Trump while pinching our noses. From the sounds of things, a few Demorats admit facing the same predicament for Biden and for similar reasons, so perhaps they can articulate another perspective if/when they do, assuming he actually makes it to the convention, gets the nod, then makes it to November (I have my doubts).

I think it’d also be helpful to first consider how those who ask this question define the term “support”. Does it mean make campaign donations? Volunteer for the campaign? Knock on doors/make calls on behalf of candidate? Wear a MAGA-hat? Attend a MAGA-rally? Plaster your car with bumper stickers? To me, all of these things would or could equate to “support” for a candidate. I do NONE of those things; therefore, I do not consider myself to “support“ Trump. I do think people infer my comments about what I view to be right/wrong, fair/unfair, reasonable/unreasonable as “supporting Trump”, but that’s only because I don’t personally find much right/fair/reasonable about those representing the Democratic party, especially the last 12 years. But to be clear, race (e.g. “make America white” as you put it) had ZERO to do with my decision - I’d have happily welcomed a President Condoleezza Rice/Tim Scott/Ben Carson/Allen West to name a few. Only one of them ran in 2016, and while I would LOVE to sit and just talk with Ben Carson some day, I knew he sadly was “too gentle” for the job, and he would've gotten eaten alive in no time if he got the nod.

So, I pinched my nose because: 1) my guy didn’t get the nod; 2) under NO circumstances to include water boarding nor any other form of inhumane, painful torture would I ever consider voting for Hillary Clinton; and, 3) under NO circumstances - to include the threats in #2 plus naturally birthing septuplets each weighing 12+lbs - did I want Hillary Clinton to end up as President. So I did what I had to do to get two things I wanted out of the 2016 election - to not end up with a “President Hillary Clinton“; and, retain a far better chance of maintaining other matters of importance to me: the courts, the constitution, and preservation of my rights and freedoms which so many I love and care about fought to defend/preserve, as did I. I could not ever - in good conscience nor based on my principles, values and beliefs - vote for someone, or a party that demonstrated a willingness (IMO) to whittle away at our rights, and yes, for me, that includes 2A. Seeing the injustice committed against LT. Gen. Flynn reaffirms for me that - while I held my nose - I’m glad I did so because there is no way the crooked behaviors of historically-trusted agencies would every have seeN the light of day.

Now, this brings me to the real question ... that is not being asked, but should/would if Democrats weren’t so blindly hell-bent on “never-Trump”ing themselves toward another loss in November and four additional years of Dems screaming “orange man bad” to anyone who will listen.

I’m really not sure I can/should give it away just yet, even though I see no candidate on the left (including Sleepy Joe) capable of defeating Trump. So, any guesses ... before I give it up?

I agree and feel the same about everything in this post for anyone who cares to ask. Thank you for taking the time to do it, though it has been done numerous times before by myself and others here.

My only difference is I live in a state that would never elect Hillary Clinton and @the_mother_thing lives in a swing state. I had the luxury of not having to vote for Trump. My state will never elect Biden so I have the luxury of not voting this election because I am so disenchanted with politicians as a whole. But I am seriously concerned about the things coming to light that were done by our premier LE agency and the DOJ during the Obama administration.

If people continue to think and post as if everyone who vote/d for Trump are racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic cretins then you are the exact thing @OboeGal claims to be against. Your high horses don't make you better, they make you nasty and intolerant.

 

[1ofakind]

@redwood66 I live in a state that is solid blue so anyone who doesn’t want the dem candidate but can’t bring themselves to vote for trump can sit out knowing it wouldn’t matter much unless they just want to make a point to vote against the other guy.
In previous years (having lived in various states of red, blue and purple) I have cast yes votes and some of those no way not the other guy votes.

I do think those on either side who boil it down to ‘my side good...your side bad’ to the point of blindly blaming or defending/excusing any action/comment are hardly worth considering their commentary...and there’s an awful lot of that in these HO political threads.