Real People Are Dying / Trump Kills

[AGBF]

Centuries of actual-oppressed human beings would laugh at your suggestion that my post ‘regulates your speech’.

I am legit-embarrassed for you.

You never take responsibility for what you do or attempt to do. You attempted to denigrate missy and to regulate my speech. I probably know a lot more than than you about the despots in history. (I am just guessing, but I have an advanced degree in history.)

I never claimed you had power over me to silence me. I spoke to your intent.

 

[telephone89]

Republicans on this thread

 

[redwood66]

Why should anyone need to provide justification? IME on PS questions or discussions like that turn into a shitshow. In fact the mere asking in that manner seems to expose your true intentions. I don't ask anyone here for their voting or support justifications.

 

[the_mother_thing]

You never take responsibility for what you do or attempt to do. You attempted to denigrate missy and to regulate my speech. I probably know a lot more than than you about the despots in history. (I am just guessing, but I have an advanced degree in history.)

I never claimed you had power over me to silence me. I spoke to your intent.

Don’t pull a muscle with THAT stretch, Richard!

 

[missy]

@AGBF thank you. You said it perfectly.

@**edited to remove identifying information**, oh wait I mean, @the_mother_thing you can change your name but you cannot change who you are.

I respectfully asked you a question and instead I got a question back with continued attitude.
I am sorry you are stressed. These are challenging times. I have no wish to stress you further so I will not engage.

Leaving you with a lovely photo from the wonderful hike we just enjoyed. 8 miles of bliss.




And also the poison ivy we wisely avoided. Much like engaging in a conversation with you **edited to remove identifying information**.

 

[redwood66]

Why are you still supporting Trump? What makes him a good President in your eyes?

I am genuinely interested in hearing your response. No attitude from me.
I would appreciate hearing your point of view.
Thank you.

Why do you need to know? This baffles me to no end. It never occurs to me to wonder why you support whomever it is you support. We know your opinion of Trump from all your posts here so are you seeking someone to justify to you why they would support him? Every thread that discusses this devolves into a nasty name calling affair.

 

[missy]

Why do you need to know? This baffles me to no end. It never occurs to me to wonder why you support whomever it is you support. We know your opinion of Trump from all your posts here so are you seeking someone to justify to you why they would support him? Every thread that discusses this devolves into a nasty name calling affair.

**edited to remove identifying information** asked me why I think Trump is in denial. I replied. I asked her why she still supports Trump because I am genuinely interested to hear why Trump supporters still support him. It was a genuine question without any malice on my part. Instead I received a condescending reply. And lots of deflection.

 

[redwood66]

XXXX asked me why I think Trump is in denial. I replied. I asked her why she still supports Trump because I am genuinely interested to hear why Trump supporters still support him. It was a genuine question without any malice on my part. Instead I received a condescending reply. And lots of deflection.

And I am asking you why do you need to know?

My short answer is - I want nothing the democrats are selling which does not translate to supporting Trump.

 

[the_mother_thing]

XXXX asked me why I think Trump is in denial. I replied. I asked her why she still supports Trump because I am genuinely interested to hear why Trump supporters still support him. It was a genuine question without any malice on my part. Instead I received a condescending reply. And lots of deflection.

@missy - I am sorry. I was sincerely asking for your opinion, and thought my simple, straight-forward question was pretty clear. I can read CNN “opinions” myself if I want to choke on MSM-garbage.

I actually thought you might have an original, worthwhile opinion to share since you posted the picture and hashtag, and I have been too busy to watch much news or read the forum lately due to work. I never perceived you as someone who would merely puppet others’ opinions as your own; however, seeing your reaction today, I’ll not make that mistake again.

 

[redwood66]

I gave an answer @missy and will patiently await one from you. Thank you. I am genuinely interested in hearing the reason/s you want/need to know "why Trump supporters still support him". I am keenly aware of how awful you think he is, so I don't want to assume you feel you are entitled to know or are seeking justification from those who support him.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@missy I asked you in my earlier reply for a link to whatever post you keep referencing ... where you stated you asked me “the other day” about who/why I support for POTUS. I have no PS alert/notification linking me to whatever you’re talking about. I also tried searching your posts from the past week to try and find whatever you’re talking about, but came up empty.

I did note though where you posted the other day that you’ve been “dense lately” (snip below so I don’t get attacked unnecessarily for that as well). I can only conclude that perhaps your own “dense-ness” or rush to judgment/assumptions that I’m somehow “stressed” (quite wrong, btw) has you mistaken or “stressed”. Either way, I tried. Maybe take another walk through those woods ... you might get lucky and bump into Hillary or Comey.


Lastly, as you’re well aware, admin has repeatedly advised members not to post others’ personally-identifying information, yet you’ve done so repeatedly today. It’s speaks volumes that you would go so far as to willfully and intentionally attempt to compromise someone else’s privacy and security ... simply because they asked your opinion.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Man am I thankful for my liberal (pun intended) use of the Ignore feature..

 

[redwood66]

@missy I asked you in my earlier reply for a link to whatever post you keep referencing ... where you stated you asked me “the other day” about who/why I support for POTUS. I have no PS alert/notification linking me to whatever you’re talking about. I also tried searching your posts from the past week to try and find whatever you’re talking about, but came up empty.

I did note though where you posted the other day that you’ve been “dense lately” (snip below so I don’t get attacked unnecessarily for that as well). I can only conclude that perhaps your own “dense-ness” or rush to judgment/assumptions that I’m somehow “stressed” (quite wrong, btw) has you mistaken or “stressed”. Either way, I tried. Maybe take another walk through those woods ... you might get lucky and bump into Hillary or Comey.


Lastly, as you’re well aware, admin has repeatedly advised members not to post others’ personally-identifying information, yet you’ve done so repeatedly today. It’s speaks volumes that you would go so far as to willfully and intentionally attempt to compromise someone else’s privacy and security ... simply because they asked your opinion.

I think it's this one from another thread.

Yes, I have to say if anyone still supports Trump after all this I am confounded. It should be interesting because we have some friends at the shore who are Republicans but I cannot believe they would still be supporting Trump. And I will ask them when we see them or talk with them.

In fact, I am curious to hear if you are willing to share. If you were a Trump supporter before this do you still support him? Do you think he is doing a good job during Covid 19? Genuinely interested to hear from anyone who still is a Trump supporter. I am not being sarcastic at all. I really want to hear from Trump supporters so I can understand.

 

[redwood66]

Man am I thankful for my liberal (pun intended) use of the Ignore feature..

Me too.

 

[Matata]

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">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[telephone89]

@missy I asked you in my earlier reply for a link to whatever post you keep referencing ... where you stated you asked me “the other day” about who/why I support for POTUS. I have no PS alert/notification linking me to whatever you’re talking about. I also tried searching your posts from the past week to try and find whatever you’re talking about, but came up empty.

I did note though where you posted the other day that you’ve been “dense lately” (snip below so I don’t get attacked unnecessarily for that as well). I can only conclude that perhaps your own “dense-ness” or rush to judgment/assumptions that I’m somehow “stressed” (quite wrong, btw) has you mistaken or “stressed”. Either way, I tried. Maybe take another walk through those woods ... you might get lucky and bump into Hillary or Comey.


Lastly, as you’re well aware, admin has repeatedly advised members not to post others’ personally-identifying information, yet you’ve done so repeatedly today. It’s speaks volumes that you would go so far as to willfully and intentionally attempt to compromise someone else’s privacy and security ... simply because they asked your opinion.

WTF is wrong with you? Honestly I have no other words that won't be immediately removed by PS. I just don't understand how you can be such a vicious petty person. You refuse to answer even the most basic question about Trump, but want to try and get someone else banned for trying to write nice notes to seniors? Seriously????? If you can't/won't answer why youre constantly licking trumps boots thats one thing, but don't sink this low.

 

[Queenie60]

Here comes the shit show. Why can't everyone be civil? It's too bad that the political discussions tend to get out of hand.

 

[redwood66]

WTF is wrong with you? Honestly I have no other words that won't be immediately removed by PS. I just don't understand how you can be such a vicious petty person. You refuse to answer even the most basic question about Trump, but want to try and get someone else banned for trying to write nice notes to seniors? Seriously????? If you can't/won't answer why youre constantly licking trumps boots thats one thing, but don't sink this low.

What is this? @missy used @the_mother_thing's personal information twice in this thread. She and I both fixed it in quotes we used.

No one has any right to demand any answers about Trump or any other topic. You aren't owed anything.

 

[missy]

Sorry I didn’t realize that info was secret. I’ll ask the mods to remove your name @the_mother_thing

 

[telephone89]

What is this? @missy used @the_mother_thing's personal information twice in this thread. She and I both fixed it in quotes we used.

No one has any right to demand any answers about Trump or any other topic. You aren't owed anything.

Huhh??? Her old NM was **edited to remove identifying information** or something. It's not a secret, and shows up in all previous threads.

 

[missy]

@the_mother_thing I would never deliberately alert you to any question because this is what we get. Deflection, avoidance and defensiveness. It was a general question to anyone who is still a Trump supporter.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Here comes the shit show. Why can't everyone be civil? It's too bad that the political discussions tend to get out of hand.

My guess is that some people aren’t looking to “discuss”. They’re looking to inflame or “win”. Of course people want to convince others of what they believe but for fruitful discussions there tends to need to be common civil ground about things like: what constitutes fact? What level of proof is considered evidence? What sources are acceptable?
And agreement to avoid logical fallacies like straw man arguments or ad hominem.

Actually if people are interested, here’s a summary with some reasonably digestible explanations (I did a quick skim so apologies if i missed something glaring).

See how many of these you can identify in the people you’re arguing with, makes for kind of a fun and satisfying game to have names for the trickery you sense but may not have had a word for. Personally if a person uses these regularly and consistently despite being called out then I ignore them because I know they’re either looking for a fight (no thanks I’ll pass) or they’re incapable of understanding the difference between healthy debate and bickering and I don’t have the time for that drama.

15 Logical Fallacies You Should Know Before Getting Into a Debate - TheBestSchools.org

Whether you have a paper to write about logical fallacies or don't want to accidentally include them in your next persuasive essay, we're highlighting the top logical fallacies you need to know.

thebestschools.org

 

[redwood66]

@the_mother_thing I would never deliberately alert you to any question because this is what we get. Deflection, avoidance and defensiveness. It was a general question to anyone who is still a Trump supporter.

And I asked you why you want/need to know? What difference does it make? Will an answer change your mind?

 

[Matata]

Why can't everyone be civil? It's too bad that the political discussions tend to get out of hand.

Imo, this isn't about political discussions getting out of hand. It's about personality clashes, rudeness, and manipulation and those issues are present even in threads that aren't directly related to government or political affairs.

 

[missy]

I gave an answer @missy and will patiently await one from you. Thank you. I am genuinely interested in hearing the reason/s you want/need to know "why Trump supporters still support him". I am keenly aware of how awful you think he is, so I don't want to assume you feel you are entitled to know or are seeking justification from those who support him.

Yes please don’t assume you understand my motivation. I asked the question (which no one answered which is telling in itself) because I want to understand why someone would still be supporting him. To perhaps gain insight into the why. Genuinely curious. I am not one to stir the pot so to speak. I am open to learning the why of others viewpoints.

 

[missy]

And I asked you why you want/need to know? What difference does it make? Will an answer change your mind?

Maybe.
I think you answered it a few posts above. Am I right that you don’t support him so much but do not support the Democratic Party. And that’s the why for you. Is that right?

 

[Matata]

Personally if a person uses these regularly and consistently despite being called out then I ignore them because I know they’re either looking for a fight (no thanks I’ll pass) or they’re incapable of understanding the difference between healthy debate and nonsense.

I love you. You are one of a dozen or so consistently level-headed PS posters.

The folks on my ignore list are guilty as charged and fall into the second half of your sentence which, I believe, causes some of them to engage in the first half of your sentence.

 

[OboeGal]

Hi Arkie, you said: you live in a far more self orientated or self centric society than other countries

I just want to stick up for my country a little bit! From your posts, I get the impression that you don't think very much of America, and you're not alone - it seems many posters from other countries feel the same way. But it's not all bad, y'know! This Trump administration is the pits, but before that we had our first person of color as president, and a woman did win the popular vote in 2016, by a few million! Also, considering that America had segregation in recent history, the place has come a long way in terms of civil rights, when you consider what it was like at the start of the civil-rights movement. It still has a long way to go, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

I know America is far from perfect. Believe me, I know. But there are lots of good things, too. The people are really warm and friendly, and the topography is stunning - lakes, mountains, prairies, deserts, huge cities, white-sand beaches, lots of natural wonders.

And there really is an insane amount of opportunity here. Where I grew up, there was none of the following: the dean's list, the honor roll, chance to be the class valedictorian, AP exams, college sports, an endless array of internships in high school, college, and post-college, and college athletics scholarships. (At my local aquarium, there were some high-school interns when I visited once. We never had an opportunity like that in high school.) All of those represent so much opportunity for young people, and I'm not sure that other countries offer such a variety of ways to shine for young folks.

In addition, many, many Americans spend a lot of time doing charity work and giving back, and giving money as well as time.

The spirit of America has always been about forging your own way, independent of the constraints of the culture of your birth. It was about striking out on your own and breaking free so you could be who you wanted to be. The original self-actualization, if you will! People who came here referred to their homes as "the old country." It's a romantic ideal about making it for yourself, far from your support village. For that, you had to be independent. So what you see as self-centric, I read as an American tradition of self-reliance. Intertwined with that is the concept of independence and freedom of government control that so many experienced in some of their old countries.

And there's a great spirit of encouragement among society members, too. "Good job!" "Good for you!" "Nice job!" are commonly heard when someone achieves something.

Being self-centric is not really what it's all about. Being self-reliant is a big part of America's soul, historically.

I think you have to live in a country for many years to really understand it.

I was born in the US, in the midwest. I've lived here my entire 55 and change years. What you're trying to propaganda-package as "self-reliance" is just relabeling an ultra-harsh "survival of the fittest" philosophy that is utterly self-centered and selfish, and leads to a national scourge of demonizing anyone who struggles for any reason. It's a disgrace.

As far as that "insane amount of opportunity" - that was true some years ago. IF you were a man. And IF you were white. And IF you were heterosexual. And IF you at least convinced the community that you were Christian, even if you really weren't deep-down. These days? The consensus among experts who study these kind of trends is that the opportunity for economic mobility is MUCH better now in Canada, Australia, and western/northern Europe than here. Here, if you're not born into the right situation, the odds are against you, and will remain against you.

@arkieb1's assessment of the US is right on target.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I love you. You are one of a dozen or so consistently level-headed PS posters.

The folks on my ignore list are guilty as charged and fall into the second half of your sentence which, I believe, causes some of them to engage in the first half of your sentence.

Haha thanks. I’ve humorously entertained the idea of quoting people’s argumements here and bolding (and labeling) which logical fallacy and why as my only response to them. But 1. I don’t have time for that, 2. I recognize that my motivations to do so are honestly mean spirited as it would basically be making fun of someone, and 3. I don’t actually want to accidentally make someone feel dumb and called out for being illogical.

That being said, I do feel that being aware of these sort of fallacies and being able to recognize them makes you 1) more aware of your own biases when you catch yourself doing it, 2) more persuasive in settings of informed debate and 3) less angry because you can confidently identify when someone is trying to goad or trap you and instead of getting incensed, just go “oh hey. Ad hominem. Haha. Good try but no.”


Edit to add: I don’t engage in arguing against people who willfully use logical fallacies because it doesn’t make me or them better. I used to be a competitive fighter, to improve I wanted to be sparring with rules and a skilled opponent. Wasting time practicing with someone who takes illegal cheap shots or isn’t on my level only leads to my learning bad habits and getting frustrated in the process.

Yes I know I probably sound super pretentious. Sorry bout that. But I’m willing to sacrifice some internet points if it means helping some people find orientation in all this insane making chaos.

 

[OboeGal]

Strange ... I checked my Postmates app and didn’t see where I placed an order for your unsolicited opinion nor the side of condescension; please feel free to keep both to yourself.

PS - don’t forget to take the hypocrisy with you; I’m allergic.

If you bully other posters - especially those who are exceedingly kind and generous in their dealings with others, such as @missy - you're going to get pushback from all of us.