Real People Are Dying / Trump Kills

[1ofakind]

@Siamese Kitty I am so sorry for the loss of your grandmother. This virus has taken a horrible toll by itself but I can't imagine how it feels that your grandmother was exposed this way. May you find peace in time.

 

[rocks]

Yes, just lost my grandmother last week to this line of decision-making. To be honest, I am furious and am not looking forward to hearing my mother cry tomorrow. It is shameful.

So sorry for your grandmother.

 

[1ofakind]

Huh??? It wasn’t because they are simply a religious organization, it’s because they took advantage of the situation to further their anti-lgbt agenda after they ‘promised’ they wouldn’t discriminate and follow mt Sinai policy and procedures. Franklin Graham is a pretty terrible person. He thinks students being taught about gay rights is akin to a ‘moral 9/11’. He justifies discriminating against lgbt folks by comparing them to drug addicts or alcoholics who drink on the job. He turned away MEDICAL VOLUNTEERS if they wouldn’t sign a statement that they opposed gay marriage.
maybe you believe all of that is cool, but a lot of New Yorkers actually’ y’know, care about people for more than their sexual proclivities.

What it sounds like you are saying is that those NYers care so much about their sexual proclivities that they were willing to risk spreading the virus through vulnerable populations in long term care centers rather than use the Samaritans Purse hospital. Is that your argument? Were the patients or their families asked where they would rather have their loved ones go or did those 'caring' NYer's just make the decision for them?
Anyone who would argue that it is better to send Covid infected patients into long term care centers instead of a hospital because that hospital is run by Christians who support traditional marriage is displaying their own intolerance, bigotry, and certainly can't claim to be a caring person by any measure that I can think of.

This hospital was run for free. Free for the patients, free for the hospitals, free for the State. Cuomo is sending a big tax bill to the many medical professionals who came to NY to help. Yup...that's just how caring a NYer can be I guess.

 

[telephone89]

What it sounds like you are saying is that those NYers care so much about their sexual proclivities that they were willing to risk spreading the virus through vulnerable populations in long term care centers rather than use the Samaritans Purse hospital. Is that your argument? Were the patients or their families asked where they would rather have their loved ones go or did those 'caring' NYer's just make the decision for them?
Anyone who would argue that it is better to send Covid infected patients into long term care centers instead of a hospital because that hospital is run by Christians who support traditional marriage is displaying their own intolerance, bigotry, and certainly can't claim to be a caring person by any measure that I can think of.

This hospital was run for free. Free for the patients, free for the hospitals, free for the patients. Cuomo is sending a big tax bill to the many medical professionals who came to NY to help. Yup...that's just how caring a NYer can be I guess.

Hah! Absolutely nailed it. Congratulations!

And you know Cuomo isn't just willy nilly sending them a bill, he's following state law. Looks like there is already a new bill that will get around this for many folk anyways. Seems like republicans would be against this, exceptions because: religion? Drafting a bill to override state law? Hmm..

 

[1ofakind]

Why do you think it has anything to do with religion? I don't care what religion all those Drs and nurses practice or don't practice when they came from all over the country...just as Cuomo asked people responded to help. Airlines sponsored free flights, hotels gave free rooms but NY sends a tax bill. It just seems a lousy way to say thanks.

 

[Karl_K]

Yes, just lost my grandmother last week to this line of decision-making. To be honest, I am furious and am not looking forward to hearing my mother cry tomorrow. It is shameful.

I am so very sorry your grandmother passed.
Prayers are outgoing,

 

[Queenie60]

Yes, just lost my grandmother last week to this line of decision-making. To be honest, I am furious and am not looking forward to hearing my mother cry tomorrow. It is shameful.

I'm very sorry for your loss. My condolences.

 

[nala]

So sorry @Siamese Kitty

 

[nala]

This is why I’ve been advocating that some states need to move to stage 2.

The same number of people could die from ‘deaths of despair’ as have already died in the U.S. from coronavirus, new study finds

‘More Americans could lose their lives to deaths of despair, deaths due to drug, alcohol, and suicide, if we do not do something immediately.’

www.marketwatch.com

 

[Queenie60]

I thought maybe DF was redefining ‘Win’ as endlessly ranting in a semi-coherent manner, responding to the voices in one‘s head as opposed to the comments/arguments actually stated and then digging in based on a predetermined political view rather than engaging critical thinking skills. Then when the opponent walks away from the crazy and unstable argument it is counted as a win.

But maybe that’s not what he meant...

Thank you for clarifying

 

[Siamese Kitty]

Thank you all so much.
@redwood66 @Karl_K @nala @1ofakind @rocks @Queenie60
Please forgive me if I missed anyone. I just hope we can get a handle on this thing sooner rather than later!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes, just lost my grandmother last week to this line of decision-making. To be honest, I am furious and am not looking forward to hearing my mother cry tomorrow. It is shameful.

SK, sorry to hear this news... BIG HUGS!

 

[Tekate]

Ms SK my sincere condolences, I lost a grandfather to pneumonia and I know the feeling of pain and sadness in losing a grandparent pneumonia took my grandfather it's not a pleasant feeling I know.

Do you know why the Comfort wouldn't allow patients on the ship? I keep reading this over and over in this and other threads and I wonder if anyone has read on why..

Navy Hospital Ship Reaches New York. But It’s Not Made to Contain Coronavirus. (Published 2020)

Navy officials insist that they are doing everything short of Saran-wrapping the ship to try to keep it virus-free.

www.nytimes.com

Navy officials do not plan to treat people with coronavirus aboard the Comfort. The mission is to take patients with other medical problems to relieve New York hospitals overrun by virus patients. But it is not as if the ship’s medical personnel can quarantine patients for two weeks before they accept them on board for treatment.

The COMFORT was to take patients that did NOT have Covid-19, people with the virus were NOT allowed on the ship, the ship was sent for overflow of hospital patients who needed a bed for illness OTHER than Covid-19.

I am furious too, I understand your fury, my son lives in the Covid-19 Hotbed, Brooklyn NY, every morning I wake up and hope he's not sick today. When he was a young child he had pneumonia 4x in one winter, and he has lung damage, I understand how you feel.

As to Franklin Graham's group and his rage against gays - it was not NYC or Cuomo that got angry that Graham's Samaritans were involved it the hospital it was the Episcopal Church.

Plan for Cathedral Hospital Stalls Amid Concern Over Evangelical Role (Published 2020)

Leaders of the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in Manhattan were upset by the involvement of Samaritan’s Purse, led by the Rev. Franklin Graham.

www.nytimes.com

Leaders of the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in Manhattan were upset by the involvement of Samaritan’s Purse, led by the Rev. Franklin Graham.

If an organization is going to make people sign oaths of discrimination and a church that was to sponsor the organization on their property decides that the organization is too prejudiced for the Church then its not NYC's fault, or Cuomo's, BUT according to what was said in the above article:

The dean said he was told by Mount Sinai on Wednesday night that the project would not move forward because the outbreak in New York had begun to plateau. In a statement on Thursday, a spokesman for the hospital network said it was “optimistic that we are seeing a flattening of the curve.”

I don't know if the real reason was the plateau or the Episcopal Church just wouldn't have the Samaritan's on their premises (I think probably the latter).

Had you read any of this? I'm asking because what I've read, and I read a lot because especially of my son.

Again, my heart to yours, and your mom's, I know this pain very well.

Yes, just lost my grandmother last week to this line of decision-making. To be honest, I am furious and am not looking forward to hearing my mother cry tomorrow. It is shameful.

 

[Tekate]

Thank you for clarifying

@1ofakind said about Tekate winning:

thought maybe DF was redefining ‘Win’ as endlessly ranting in a semi-coherent manner, responding to the voices in one‘s head as opposed to the comments/arguments actually stated and then digging in based on a predetermined political view rather than engaging critical thinking skills. Then when the opponent walks away from the crazy and unstable argument it is counted as a win.

Nope @1ofakind , DF said when an opponent walks away they are chicken and therefore forfeit the discussion and they LOSE.

Walking away from something you can't win @1ofakind btw is called losing.

Now one can throw some gratuitous slams, unkind remarks, FUD, inferring someone has not engaged in critical thinking skills is somewhat lame, but to the people who DO lack critical thinking skills would think that true and funny, me in ruminating about it in my mind I'd say it was meh.

A lot of what you @1ofakind have said is FUD about NYState and Cuomo is fake news (if there can be such a thing, let's just call it lies).. Do you research? do you read ANYTHING but maybe?? Daily Caller? The little tirade you posted above on Cuomo and NY is totally without merit and full of false reasoning based on false information otherwise known as BS from the right. FUD.

Health care workers who volunteered to come to NY will have to pay state income tax, Cuomo says

Anyone from outside of New York who stayed to help fight the coronavirus pandemic for more than 14 days will be subject to pay.

www.wtsp.com

and living in one state and working and paying taxes in another:

Do You Have to Pay Income Tax to a Nonresidential State?

Americans who live in one state and earn money in another must generally pay non-resident income tax to the state where they earn their money, but there are several variations on this theme. For example, some states don’t tax income. In other cases, some neighboring states have implemented...

finance.zacks.com

from the first pointer Cuomo said:

Under this direction, any out-of-state-resident who headed to the Empire state to assist with COVID-19 will be subject to paying state income tax after a 14-day stay. The regulations do not apply to those who stayed for less.

On May 5, Cuomo extended his executive order allowing health care workers to practice in New York state until June 4, saying:

"We are forever indebted to the countless doctors, nurses, physician assistants, respiratory therapists and other health care professionals from neighboring states who came to help the family of New York when we needed it most. They helped us get through the worst of this pandemic, and we will never forget their sacrifice. Today I am extending the executive order that allows these heroes to continue practicing in the Empire State, because although the apex is behind us, we continue to need their support. Words cannot express how grateful we are to them and all the frontline workers who are carrying us through this difficult period, but we will continue to try every single day."

Next up rules on paying state income when you live in one state and work in another.

Living in One State, Working in Another | The Official Blog of TaxSlayer

If you live in one state and work in another, your states taxes might not be straightforward. Read this article for tips on filing in more than one state.

www.taxslayer.com

Do You Have to Pay Income Tax to a Nonresidential State?

Americans who live in one state and earn money in another must generally pay non-resident income tax to the state where they earn their money, but there are several variations on this theme. For example, some states don’t tax income. In other cases, some neighboring states have implemented...

finance.zacks.com

If you earn income in one state while living in another, you will need to file a tax return in your resident state reporting all income you earn, no matter the location. However, you might also be required to file a state tax return in your state of employment.

From Turbo Tax:

Multiple States—Figuring What's Owed When You Live and Work in More Than One State - TurboTax Tax Tips & Videos

If you live and/or work in more than one state, how do you determine your state income taxes? TurboTax can help you calculate the taxes you owe to different states.

turbotax.intuit.com

How do I know how much I owe in each state?

Residents pay tax on all of the income (from all sources) they received during the calendar year. Residents get a tax credit for taxes paid to any other states.

Example: A California resident receives $20,000 from a rental building in Arkansas. The resident reports only the $20,000 to Arkansas and pays $2,000 in tax to Arkansas. Since the person is a California resident, California also taxes the $20,000, but gives a $2,000 tax credit for the tax you paid to Arkansas.

Part-year residents follow each state's rules. Some states separate the income, and tax only their state's income. Or a state may calculate the tax on all income as if you were a resident, and then allocate the tax based on "in state sources/all sources."

So CUOMO has to bill them for income earned in NYS after working for 14 days.. but the worker can MOST PROBABLY get a rebate in their state. In order for Cuomo (now remember he isn't Trump and he isn't above the LAW) to change the tax law that would require the legislature and I am NOT saying they shouldn't do that, but laying it all on NYState and Cuomo, that is wrong.

The right wing press does so MUCH to slam and print FUD that it's hard to keep up with It.

AND I know a TON about paying taxes like this as my hubster worked in Israel for months at a time and my bestie and her husband lived in Germany 2x for a year each and their taxes took YEARs (really YEARS) to get straight..

 

[Tekate]

Why do you think it has anything to do with religion? I don't care what religion all those Drs and nurses practice or don't practice when they came from all over the country...just as Cuomo asked people responded to help. Airlines sponsored free flights, hotels gave free rooms but NY sends a tax bill. It just seems a lousy way to say thanks.

Why do you think it has anything to do with religion?

Uh cause the Episcopal Church took exception to the Samaritans? (see my above pointer)

Uh, Please read his eloquent thanks in my above pointer. A kind way of saying thanks..

 

[Tekate]

oooh I get it... hahaha! isn't that 'rich!' yeah, interesting aren't they those odd brags... .. You know what 1ofakind said, critical thinking skills and all. hahaha.

@Tekate It was me who mentioned her HUGE house and republican meeting. My response was deleted, so apparently someone was extremely offended by pointing out these odd brags....

 

[Tekate]

Hah! Absolutely nailed it. Congratulations!

And you know Cuomo isn't just willy nilly sending them a bill, he's following state law. Looks like there is already a new bill that will get around this for many folk anyways. Seems like republicans would be against this, exceptions because: religion? Drafting a bill to override state law? Hmm..

Just sayin: they the poster missed this it's good

 

[1ofakind]

I’ll just make it easy for you now @Tekate ...you ’win’. You can ‘win’ forever as far as I’m concerned.

Have a good night.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I’ll just make it easy for you now @Tekate ...you ’win’. You can ‘win’ forever as far as I’m concerned.

Have a good night.

Another easy victory for T. Where is Alj when you need her?..

 

[Karl_K]

Re no ship for covid patients.
The ship lacks isolation and double isolation rooms or wards needed to safety treat them.
In fact it is pretty much impossible to configure a boat with any number of them.
The same reason that the US docked and abandon an aircraft carrier with a ghost crew.

 

[Jambalaya]

Hi Arkie, you said: you live in a far more self orientated or self centric society than other countries

I just want to stick up for my country a little bit! From your posts, I get the impression that you don't think very much of America, and you're not alone - it seems many posters from other countries feel the same way. But it's not all bad, y'know! This Trump administration is the pits, but before that we had our first person of color as president, and a woman did win the popular vote in 2016, by a few million! Also, considering that America had segregation in recent history, the place has come a long way in terms of civil rights, when you consider what it was like at the start of the civil-rights movement. It still has a long way to go, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

I know America is far from perfect. Believe me, I know. But there are lots of good things, too. The people are really warm and friendly, and the topography is stunning - lakes, mountains, prairies, deserts, huge cities, white-sand beaches, lots of natural wonders.

And there really is an insane amount of opportunity here. Where I grew up, there was none of the following: the dean's list, the honor roll, chance to be the class valedictorian, AP exams, college sports, an endless array of internships in high school, college, and post-college, and college athletics scholarships. (At my local aquarium, there were some high-school interns when I visited once. We never had an opportunity like that in high school.) All of those represent so much opportunity for young people, and I'm not sure that other countries offer such a variety of ways to shine for young folks.

In addition, many, many Americans spend a lot of time doing charity work and giving back, and giving money as well as time.

The spirit of America has always been about forging your own way, independent of the constraints of the culture of your birth. It was about striking out on your own and breaking free so you could be who you wanted to be. The original self-actualization, if you will! People who came here referred to their homes as "the old country." It's a romantic ideal about making it for yourself, far from your support village. For that, you had to be independent. So what you see as self-centric, I read as an American tradition of self-reliance. Intertwined with that is the concept of independence and freedom of government control that so many experienced in some of their old countries.

And there's a great spirit of encouragement among society members, too. "Good job!" "Good for you!" "Nice job!" are commonly heard when someone achieves something.

Being self-centric is not really what it's all about. Being self-reliant is a big part of America's soul, historically.

I think you have to live in a country for many years to really understand it.

 

[1ofakind]

Re no ship for covid patients.
The ship lacks isolation and double isolation rooms or wards needed to safety treat them.
In fact it is pretty much impossible to configure a boat with any number of them.
The same reason that the US docked and abandon an aircraft carrier with a ghost crew.

All true that the original intent was to use the Comfort for non-Covid patients. But after some patients on board tested positive Cuomo asked to use Comfort for Cocid + and was quickly accomodated by Trump and the captain. I believe the capacity was reduced but even so was underutilized.

 

[1ofakind]

Another easy victory for T. Where is Alj when you need her?..

I know. I am a little disappointed in myself....maybe I’ll blame stress from quarantine but it is just so endless and ridiculous and endless....it’s just not worth it.
It reminds me of talking to my dad, who one time went on a 20 minute rant against using cruise control. Maybe I should get him to join here. He won’t ever talk about jewelry but I think if I start the right posts he and this one might just go around and around since they both enjoy it so much.

 

[rocks]

Re no ship for covid patients.
The ship lacks isolation and double isolation rooms or wards needed to safety treat them.
In fact it is pretty much impossible to configure a boat with any number of them.
The same reason that the US docked and abandon an aircraft carrier with a ghost crew.

All true. Once it was determined that more Covid beds were needed, they converted the ship from non Covid to Covid. No easy task.

 

[arkieb1]

@Jambalaya - yes I agree there are many wonderful people that are Americans, but I personally think most Western cultures are very "self- centric" the US is one of the worst....

My point was that the rights and so called freedoms of "the individual" in your society historically are placed above the collective good of all ie when it comes to reducing or better managing firearms is a prime example. So is COVID - 19. Having said that there are many fine people, like doctors and nurses and every day citizens that put the needs of the people they help every day before their own welfare.

I'm talking about the country as a collective whole, a country who elected a second rate TV reality star, a misogynist, and a guy with links to the mafia and Russia into the White House. Not only has he F-ed up the management of this virus from beginning to now, your own people will most likely re-elect him....

Most Americans are good people, but the buck has to stop somewhere. I think cultural historians will look at Trump in 5, 10 and 20 years and write exactly what I'm trying to articulate. He is a byproduct of fear, of hate, of "self" and nationalistic individualism, of a closed "me" before "we" mindset, after Obama, this radical move to right wing conservatism, over rationalism and global unity.

 

[telephone89]

@Jambalaya I think you are taking what arkie said a bit too personally. Literally in school we are taught about different cultures and that the USA is an individualistic society vs some others as collectivist. USA is much more "do whats best for me" vs "do whats best for society". It's not always a bad thing, but it is different and has real ascribable traits.

Is this not almost exactly what you described:
"An individualist is motivated by personal rewards and benefits. Individualist persons set personal goals and objectives based on self."

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[Calliecake]

It will be interesting to see how the White House attitudes change now that Covid-19 is in the White House. Hopefully this administration is finally waking up to the fact that this virus knows no boundaries and sees all people as hosts.

@1ofakind , I have to ask if you have been tracking the State of Illinois Covid-19 cases by zip code? A few weeks ago there were only a couple zip codes in the state that showed cases outside of Chicago and the suburbs of Chicago. I suggest you take a look at the map as it has changed dramatically over the past month. You can click on the cities and see the number of people who have tested positive. People with no symptoms typically don’t get tested and with many people showing no symptoms, I often wonder if you have a false sense of security.

Thank goodness many of us listen to the doctors and scientists while ignoring the president’s opinions.

I’m so glad you are back @Tekate . Love our new avatar, Auti is beautiful! Oh that sweet little face!

 

[Tekate]

Another easy victory for T. Where is Alj when you need her?..

Was ALJ conservative? I'd love to have a conversation with a 'real' conservative, not conservatives who only read Breitbart, Fox News.com, the Red State, the Blaze, The Daily Caller, American Thinker, those who read ONLY these sites are only getting an interpretation of the news, way right, now a true conservative such as George Conway, while I can't stand the guy, he's what a conservative IS, conservative with a brain, I could never debate him without going to law school. As a matter of fact, I'm open to reading true conservative sites, not sites like the above that make money on hits to feed the Trump deadpool. As a matter of fact in addition I'm conservative ON subjects.

BUT I am not going to let go by people who only read one side, I don't think I would 'defend' any democrat if so much inaccurate information spewed from say Fox is out there, sites just feed their base, so I read all the sites I can.

If ALJ was a conservative that isn't going to call me a hypocrite or other nonsense then maybe ALJ and I could discourse.

 

[Tekate]

Thank you Callie very much.

You may notice that when presented with facts the right is nowhere to be found, you know Callie, I would love to read the truth from ANY site, why do Trumpsters (say) not read what Cuomo really said? or why the hospital site did not come to fruition? Cuomo isn't a saint, but I hate to see a person pulverized by untruths. If I a wrong, I would say "HEY THANKS SO MUCH for the heads up" if one cannot admit one is wrong, or off base then what does that say about him or her? It says they DON'T WANT TO KNOW THE FACTS, because if the facts don't support their bubble then their whole world crumbles..

I've wrestled all my life with capital punishment Callie, I think I'm conservative on it this go round.. but I've been very outspoken about how it affects blacks more.. but I wrestle wrestle with it.. and abortion, I so support the right to chose, but having never had an unwanted pregnancy I don't REALLY know if I could have gone thru with a termination.. these are hard things, very hard and I don't think I'm a flaming liberal or anything, I just wrestle and I stand up for those I think that are treated unfairly, but I can always change if there is something I missed or what I have researched is WRONG.

thanks so much re: the pix.. she is a sweet minx..

It will be interesting to see how the White House attitudes change now that Covid-19 is in the White House. Hopefully this administration is finally waking up to the fact that this virus knows no boundaries and sees all people as hosts.

@1ofakind , I have to ask if you have been tracking the State of Illinois Covid-19 cases by zip code? A few weeks ago there were only a couple zip codes in the state that showed cases outside of Chicago and the suburbs of Chicago. I suggest you take a look at the map as it has changed dramatically over the past month. You can click on the cities and see the number of people who have tested positive. People with no symptoms typically don’t get tested and with many people showing no symptoms, I often wonder if you have a false sense of security.

Thank goodness many of us listen to the doctors and scientists while ignoring the president’s opinions.

I’m so glad you are back @Tekate . Love our new avatar, Auti is beautiful! Oh that sweet little face!

 

[Dancing Fire]

BUT I am not going to let go by people who only read one side, I don't think I would 'defend' any democrat if so much inaccurate information spewed from say Fox is out there, sites just feed their base, so I read all the sites I can.

If ALJ was a conservative that isn't going to call me a hypocrite or other nonsense then maybe ALJ and I could discourse.

Why is Fox any different than CNN, MSNBC, ABC,WP and NYT?. It is Fox against the rest of the media.

I don't know if Alj is a liberal or a conservative but she can out debate any PSer on any topic...