Real People Are Dying / Trump Kills

[Dancing Fire]

I suggest you take a look at the map as it has changed dramatically over the past month. You can click on the cities and see the number of people who have tested positive. People with no symptoms typically don’t get tested and with many people showing no symptoms, I often wonder if you have a false sense of security.

If we tested all 340 million people in the US there will be millions more positive results. That is only logical.

 

[1ofakind]

@Calliecake I am watching the cases by county but I don't see anything alarming. That there are cases outside of Chicago/ St. Louis doesn't mean much as there are so few hospitalizations in most of the state away from the hot spots. That was the point right? We have cases in our county too (fewer than 50, more than half recovered). We've not had more than 3 people in the hospital and no evidence of community spread happening. We should be opening...with precautions.

Also we have open testing here now, anyone can go. Last I heard more than 200 went for voluntary testing...no symptoms needed to get tested. More than half have already come back negative. I haven't checked it this week though.

 

[AGBF]

Was ALJ conservative?

...​

If ALJ was a conservative that isn't going to call me a hypocrite or other nonsense then maybe ALJ and I could discourse.

I'm not sure where all this discussion of Alj came from (although I watched it unfold), but I have a feeling that people are taking her name in vain!

I don't remember Alj as being extremely political. If she had been extremely conservative she would have set my teeth on edge, which she did not. I remember her as extremely smart; interested in many different subjects; and entertaining. She also knew a lot about diamonds and went into the trade. But obviously that's just my opinion.

 

[Jambalaya]

@Jambalaya - yes I agree there are many wonderful people that are Americans, but I personally think most Western cultures are very "self- centric" the US is one of the worst....

My point was that the rights and so called freedoms of "the individual" in your society historically are placed above the collective good of all ie when it comes to reducing or better managing firearms is a prime example. So is COVID - 19. Having said that there are many fine people, like doctors and nurses and every day citizens that put the needs of the people they help every day before their own welfare.

I'm talking about the country as a collective whole, a country who elected a second rate TV reality star, a misogynist, and a guy with links to the mafia and Russia into the White House. Not only has he F-ed up the management of this virus from beginning to now, your own people will most likely re-elect him....

Most Americans are good people, but the buck has to stop somewhere. I think cultural historians will look at Trump in 5, 10 and 20 years and write exactly what I'm trying to articulate. He is a byproduct of fear, of hate, of "self" and nationalistic individualism, of a closed "me" before "we" mindset, after Obama, this radical move to right wing conservatism, over rationalism and global unity.

Well, actually, this move to the right isn't just an American thing at all. It's a global thing. Look at the UK choosing Brexit and electing Conservative Boris in a landslide, who is also wanting to open up the economy, too. Look at Germany and its 16% of the vote going to the Alternative for Germany, a seriously right-wing party. Many other countries over the past four years have also elected right-wing leaders or at least a greater number of right-wing representatives. A good part of it is a movement against immigration. People only want their own kind in their own countries, which seems very self-centric. Yes, the US is famously individualistic. I guess that's part of the whole freedom schtick - freedom to be yourself and go your own way, unfettered by cultural expectations that dictate the lives of so many. Which is fine, if that's what floats people's boats, but many like to live life on their own terms, and the US is all about that.

However, I believe that such a society should be underpinned by a safety net for the sick and vulnerable. Other countries may be better at that, I don't know. What happens in Australia if someone has no money and is really sick? In the UK, care homes are only free after you've exhausted most of your assets, I know that much. The NHS doesn't cover care homes. You have to pay for it yourself, until you can't any longer. I think it's the same in my state - which is a blue state.

Western societies are very self-centric compared to many Asian ones, like India where the elderly are revered and looked after in their old age by the family.

 

[Dee*Jay]

I'm not sure where all this discussion of Alj came from (although I watched it unfold), but I have a feeling that people are taking her name in vain!

I don't remember Alj as being extremely political. If she had been extremely conservative she would have set my teeth on edge, which she did not. I remember her as extremely smart; interested in many different subjects; and entertaining. She also knew a lot about diamonds and went into the trade. But obviously that's just my opinion.

Deb, I don't think people are taking her name in vain. At least if they are I'm missing it. I think the references --driven by DF -- are about her debate prowess and her relentlessness. (I say that with pure love in my heart!) Thinking back, nothing about her postings jump out at me as having been political, so you and I are of one mind on that point. And I also do remember her being very very smart and refreshingly direct. I had the pleasure of spending a day with her once, and I miss her on here a ton!

 

[AGBF]

Deb, I don't think people are taking her name in vain. At least if they are I'm missing it. I think the references --driven by DF -- are about her debate prowess and her relentlessness. (I say that with pure love in my heart!) Thinking back, nothing about her postings jump out at me as having been political, so you and I are of one mind on that point. And I also do remember her being very very smart and refreshingly direct. I had the pleasure of spending a day with her once, and I miss her on here a ton!

Hi, Dee*Jay-

I used the wink emoji because I was joking by using a term as serious as "taking her name in vain". But you are right to call me out on my posting. I didn't mean to imply that anyone was saying anything negative about Alj. It just seemed that suddenly people who had never known her were making wild assumptions about her. (I am pointing my finger at Kate as I type this.) If this thread went on any longer unchecked I think we would be ready to have Al running for Prime Minister on the Conservative Party ticket. So I wanted to stick an oar in.

Deb

 

[Jambalaya]

@Jambalaya I think you are taking what arkie said a bit too personally. Literally in school we are taught about different cultures and that the USA is an individualistic society vs some others as collectivist. USA is much more "do whats best for me" vs "do whats best for society". It's not always a bad thing, but it is different and has real ascribable traits.

Is this not almost exactly what you described:
"An individualist is motivated by personal rewards and benefits. Individualist persons set personal goals and objectives based on self."

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Yes, probably, Telephone. In my daily life I'm surrounded by people who detest America so much, and they never shut up about it. They carry on as if they don't live in a democracy, when they do. I feel like shipping them off to an actual non-demoracy for a while, so they can compare and contrast!

America is working very hard to correct its faults. It's always striving to be better. And although Trump was elected due to the Electoral College massaging the numbers, in real terms Hillary was elected because three million more people voted for her than voted for Trump. I always find that a comforting thought.

Sadly, I think Trump will be re-elected, because there isn't a young, charismatic alternative. I think if Trump were taking on Obama now, Obama would win.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Hi, Dee*Jay-

I used the wink emoji because I was joking by using a term as serious as "taking her name in vain". But you are right to call me out on my posting. I didn't mean to imply that anyone was saying anything negative about Alj. It just seemed that suddenly people who had never known her were making wild assumptions about her. (I am pointing my finger at Kate as I type this.) If this thread went on any longer unchecked I think we would be ready to have Al running for Prime Minister on the Conservative Party ticket. So I wanted to stick an oar in.

Deb

Ah -- gotcha! Sorry for any misunderstanding! I truly was confused there for a sec so thank you for helping me out. I admit I was guilty of going through this thread while half-listening to a call (that I had to chaperone for purely administrative reasons) so I didn't give this my full attention.

As for voting for alj for prime minister, president, queen, or anything else -- I'm in! Just let me know where to cast the ballot!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Its always ones perspective on the situation. I have only had two people on ignore in all my time here. AlJ was one of them. Yes, she liked strife and arguing, never stopping until she exhausted everyone. She was quite nasty IMO as well. So, there you have it . I am so glad she is no longer on here. Just MO.
My 2 cents

Annette

 

[AGBF]

Its always ones perspective on the situation. I have only had two people on ignore in all my time here. AlJ was one of them. Yes, she liked strife and arguing, never stopping until she exhausted everyone. She was quite nasty IMO as well. So, there you have it . I am so glad she is no longer on here. Just MO.
My 2 cents

Annette

It is always interesting to hear your point of view, Annette. I am not being facetious. I truly don't remember her being nasty (despite the chainsaw icon), but people's memories are selective. If I were to reread old posts, I might see things differently.

Deb

 

[Tekate]

Then why do you watch Fox or read Washington Examiner? Do you watch CNN, MSNBC ABC etc? I don't since I don't have cable television. All I have is what I stream. I read that's all I do.

I don't find Fox vs CNN equal one gives extreme right wing slant and ther other reports slanted left wing reporting.. therefore I don't watch either.

According to others Alj was a very nice woman, went into the 'business' and was not involved in much political stuff and she was very direct, smart and nice. Ask Deb.

Why is Fox any different than CNN, MSNBC, ABC,WP and NYT?. It is Fox against the rest of the media.

I don't know if Alj is a liberal or a conservative but she can out debate any PSer on any topic...

 

[arkieb1]

Well, actually, this move to the right isn't just an American thing at all. It's a global thing. Look at the UK choosing Brexit and electing Conservative Boris in a landslide, who is also wanting to open up the economy, too. Look at Germany and its 16% of the vote going to the Alternative for Germany, a seriously right-wing party. Many other countries over the past four years have also elected right-wing leaders or at least a greater number of right-wing representatives. A good part of it is a movement against immigration. People only want their own kind in their own countries, which seems very self-centric. Yes, the US is famously individualistic. I guess that's part of the whole freedom schtick - freedom to be yourself and go your own way, unfettered by cultural expectations that dictate the lives of so many. Which is fine, if that's what floats people's boats, but many like to live life on their own terms, and the US is all about that.

However, I believe that such a society should be underpinned by a safety net for the sick and vulnerable. Other countries may be better at that, I don't know. What happens in Australia if someone has no money and is really sick? In the UK, care homes are only free after you've exhausted most of your assets, I know that much. The NHS doesn't cover care homes. You have to pay for it yourself, until you can't any longer. I think it's the same in my state - which is a blue state.

Western societies are very self-centric compared to many Asian ones, like India where the elderly are revered and looked after in their old age by the family.

Yes I agree with you there has been a world wide movement towards radical conservatism, closing borders, a more insular mindset, largely due to a reaction against terrorism and fear of "the other".....

I studied the cultural differences between the US and Australia (how they were founded) what each cultural belief system and set of values are, a couple of decades ago, and the overall "mindset" if you like, both domestically and Internationally, even before this shift to radical conservatism generally, in the US is very different to the UK and Australia.

We have a much better safety net than the US in terms of things like health, the poor, education, disability, all of those things - but we pay one of the highest rates of personal tax in the world to sustain it. New Zealand and Australia have had some of the toughest restrictions in the world during COVID - 19 with a severe economic impact but that has also been backed by a generally decent response to funding people in need. Having said that, I dare say generations to come will be paying for it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Then why do you watch Fox or read Washington Examiner? Do you watch CNN, MSNBC ABC etc? I don't since I don't have cable television. All I have is what I stream. I read that's all I do.

Yes I do. They been saying Trump is a Russian asset for the past 3.5 yr and never gave Trump any credit for running a strong economy before this virus hit. They always sided with China rather than Trump.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I've been very impressed with Gov Andrew Cuomo and would vote for him for President in a heartbeat. I think he has shown exceptional leadership skills in this crisis, and has actually saved lives by his actions and words!

I bet even the most progressive New York liberals are thanking their lucky stars he beat Cynthia Nixon at the last election!!!

Really?. Even after he killed 5300 senior citizens?. Cuomo have no common sense.

Cuomo Reverses Nursing Home Directive to Take COVID-19 Patients, Requires More Staff Testing

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo issued a series of new rules for nursing homes in hopes of curbing the spread of the coronavirus and protecting the health and safety of the state’s most vulnerable population. Since the start of the pandemic, more than 5,300 New Yorkers living in nursing homes have...

www.nbcnewyork.com

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Trump administration cuts funding for coronavirus researcher, jeopardizing possible COVID-19 cure

An American scientist who collaborates with the Wuhan Institute of Virology had his grant terminated in the wake of unsubstantiated claims that COVID-19 is either manmade or leaked out of a Chinese government lab.

www.cbsnews.com

Hard to argue economy on this kind of decision. This is just dangerous politicizing of science. Unless you’re going to argue that they will redirect the funds to labs located in the US or use it for stimulus funding? Even then, I’d argue the money is better invested in quality research for treatment and prevention.

 

[Missy]

#denial

 

[House Cat]

I’m going to say it again. It appears that the Trump administration is purposefully making the worst decisions possible for this pandemic. It appears as if he wants people to die.

My golden retriever would be a better leader in this crisis.

 

[the_mother_thing]

#denial

@missy What - specifically - is he in denial about?

 

[Missy]

@missy What - specifically - is he in denial about?

What isn’t he in denial about would be the shorter answer imo.

Trump is fighting a public health crisis with denial and self-promotion | CNN

Frida Ghitis writes Trump is repeating his disastrous strategy from the first 10 weeks of the pandemic, when he acted as if the coronavirus was a political and PR problem that could be fixed with empty reassurances and propaganda, rather than a public health crisis demanding smart and forceful...

www.cnn.com

6 Ways Trump’s Denial of Science Has Delayed the Response to COVID-19 (and Climate Change) - Inside Climate News

The coronavirus pandemic has highlighted the need for rigorous science, demonstrating—in realtime—what the consequences can be when world leaders pay inadequate attention to what that science says. In his response to COVID-19, Presdient Donald Trump has made statements that ignore, question or...

insideclimatenews.org

 

[Missy]

I’m going to say it again. It appears that the Trump administration is purposefully making the worst decisions possible for this pandemic. It appears as if he wants people to die.

My golden retriever would be a better leader in this crisis.

I don’t think he wants people to die but his willful ignorance is dangerous. He is delusional. And at times he seems like a deer in headlights. Without the innocence.

 

[AGBF]

I don’t think he wants people to die but his willful ignorance is dangerous. He is delusional. And at times he seems like a deer in headlights. Without the innocence.

I don't think he wants people to die, either. I think he is indifferent to whether people die. He wants the economy to look as if it is booming. The life and death of the American people does not factor into the decisions he makes about policy. That is not delusion. He knows what his purpose is. He may just be wrong that ignoring public health will bring him a booming economy and re-election. That is called making a bad decision about your strategy.

 

[the_mother_thing]

What isn’t he in denial about would be the shorter answer imo.

Trump is fighting a public health crisis with denial and self-promotion | CNN

Frida Ghitis writes Trump is repeating his disastrous strategy from the first 10 weeks of the pandemic, when he acted as if the coronavirus was a political and PR problem that could be fixed with empty reassurances and propaganda, rather than a public health crisis demanding smart and forceful...

www.cnn.com

6 Ways Trump’s Denial of Science Has Delayed the Response to COVID-19 (and Climate Change) - Inside Climate News

The coronavirus pandemic has highlighted the need for rigorous science, demonstrating—in realtime—what the consequences can be when world leaders pay inadequate attention to what that science says. In his response to COVID-19, Presdient Donald Trump has made statements that ignore, question or...

insideclimatenews.org

I asked you (not CNN), as you posted the cartoon and hashtag ... so I was interested in what specifically you believe he is in denial about.

 

[Missy]

I asked you (not CNN), as you posted the cartoon and hashtag ... so I was interested in what specifically you believe he is in denial about.

**edited to remove identifying information**, I do not care for the tone of your post. I linked two articles that discuss exactly what he is in denial about. However if you would like I would be happy to expand upon my answer.

Would you answer a question from me first? One I asked the other day. If you would be so kind as to answer it I would be more than happy to expand upon my reply above.

Why are you still supporting Trump? What makes him a good President in your eyes?

I am genuinely interested in hearing your response. No attitude from me.
I would appreciate hearing your point of view.
Thank you.

 

[Tekate]

That BS. Bring me up and point to ANY of those places that say that Trump is a Russian agent.. I will say that Rep. Schiff DID try to make that case because he thought it was true. That was wrong, but there was plenty of evidence that the Russians did their damndest to get Trumpski elected and it worked! (at least at the EC level).. ALL news sites report thru a lens of bias of some sort. it's how much.

FOX et all - FAR right
CNN - FAR LEFT

ABCnews - middleish

No many news sites didn't give Trump a ounce of credit because the economies rise was on the back of the middle class, those who were much poorer than the uber rich and businesses who are already rich..

No one in the pub party speaks for ME, a middle class (to upper) person, my taxes rose, ooh but those rich people who have passthru income? they profited and don't invest in any businesses or people.

A strong economy for the rich, yup I'll bite.

And Trump - he sleeps with the Chinese and you know it. And with the fatass up in N Korea too for that matter.

Yes I do. They been saying Trump is a Russian asset for the past 3.5 yr and never gave Trump any credit for running a strong economy before this virus hit. They always sided with China rather than Trump.

 

[Tekate]

Well as of now Trump has killed 80,897. so Trumpsk? he's a worse, badder, killer..(Of course if you want you can deduct the 5,300 American's that Cuomo killed) goodness we can now rate our politicians and leaders according to political party and innuendo, and snark and all that fun stuff! woohoo!

Really?. Even after he killed 5300 senior citizens?. Cuomo have no common sense.

Cuomo Reverses Nursing Home Directive to Take COVID-19 Patients, Requires More Staff Testing

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo issued a series of new rules for nursing homes in hopes of curbing the spread of the coronavirus and protecting the health and safety of the state’s most vulnerable population. Since the start of the pandemic, more than 5,300 New Yorkers living in nursing homes have...

www.nbcnewyork.com

 

[the_mother_thing]

@missy Not sure what ‘tone’ you’re inferring. Your post suggested you believe Trump to be in denial, and I merely asked you ‘about what/how’. I even attempted to make it clear I was interested in YOUR opinion (vs that of others) by linking your name specifically with my question. I thought - in both of my posts - my question was rather simple, so I’m confused why you appear so defensive.

I didn’t see a question from you a few days ago, but I’ve been very busy with work (essential job), so I don’t have time to read everyone’s posts. What specific post of mine are you referring to where you infer I am supporting Trump? Can you link it, please?

 

[AGBF]

@missy Not sure what ‘tone’ you’re inferring. Your post suggested you believe Trump to be in denial, and I merely asked you ‘about what/how’. I even attempted to make it clear I was interested in YOUR opinion (vs that of others) by linking your name specifically with my question. I thought - in both of my posts - my question was rather simple, so I’m confused why you appear so defensive.

I will enlighten you since you appear to be unaware about how you came across. You did not simply asky missy's opinion; you chastized her by saying "I asked you not CNN" which is belittling and makes you sound as if you think you have the right to call missy on the carpet and require her to answer your questions in the manner you deem appropriate rather than the way she wishes to answer them. It makes you sound as if you think you are missy's superior rather than her equal and a sensitive person would not have spoken to her that way.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I will enlighten you since you appear to be unaware about how you came across. You did not simply asky missy's opinion., you chastized her by saying "I asked you not CNN" which is belittling and makes you sound as if you think you have the right to call missy on the carpet and require her to answer your questions in the manner you deem appropriate rather than the way she wishes to answer them. It makes you sound as if you think you are missy's superior rather than her equal and a sensitive person would not have spoken to her that way.

Strange ... I checked my Postmates app and didn’t see where I placed an order for your unsolicited opinion nor the side of condescension; please feel free to keep both to yourself.

PS - don’t forget to take the hypocrisy with you; I’m allergic.

 

[AGBF]

It's interesting that you think you have the right to regulate my speech. You lack sensitivity and common sense as well.

Strange ... I checked my Postmates app and didn’t see where I placed an order for your unsolicited opinion nor the side of condescension; please feel free to keep both to yourself.

 

[the_mother_thing]

It's interesting that you think you have the right to regulate my speech. You lack sensitivity and common sense as well.

Centuries of actual-oppressed human beings would laugh at your suggestion that my post ‘regulates your speech’.

I am legit-embarrassed for you.