Scintillating
Brilliant_Rock
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OYE! This thread got seriously hijacked.
Question for the Color Sensitive Ladies/Gents.
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sjz
Brilliant_Rock
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See, I''m weird, and all my friends know itDate: 8/17/2005 10:43:01 AM
Author: aljdewey
I think we''re getting to the same point....just taking different routes to get there.
You''re saying ''if I could see them in person and look at them for a few minutes.....'', but you''re describing a far more intense scrutiny than most pieces get under *normal* viewing conditions. I''m sure that if people sat down with two stones next to one another and looked at them for a few minutes, most people would be fairly able to appreciate some subtle difference.....especially if they think they are suppoed to see a difference.
When someone comes here and asks if people with slightly warmer stones notice the body tint, I approach it with every day, incidental viewing conditions in mind.
In everyday situations, people don''t wear their stone right next to a higher color stone, and they don''t gaze at both stones in intense scrutiny looking for the difference. In every day conditions, you wear your ring to the supermarket or the soccer field or out to dinner or to work---whatever, and the ring in seen at a distance of about 18 or so inches. When people see it, they don''t do a 45-second, Vulcan-mind-melting stare at it. They just see it on the hand in flashes. This is the way folks really wear their rings. Even the owner of the ring doesn''t sit gazing for hours into the stone after the newness wears off.
It is these everyday conditions that I try to focus on when people ask ''will I see a difference''.
(Disclaimer: I realize the above everyday viewing conditions don''t necessarily apply in the first 3 months of becoming newly engaged---then everybody is grabbing your hand and gluing their eyeball to it.., but that wears off just like new car smell.)
There are two ways of looking at color.....in the lab under intense scrutiny, or in everyday wearing conditions. They aren''t the same.
That was one of the things that amazed me so much when I first came to PS. That people were so knowledgable about their stones, knowing all the specs and so willing to share them with others. In the real world, most people will only go around telling people what the specs are on their diamonds if they are along the lines of a D Flawless or something. I even suspect that I''ve had people lie to me about the color or clarity of their stones.
I guess the moral of my story is that for ME...intense scrutiny IS the normal viewing condition...
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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LOL Mrs Salvo!!
For me personally I don''t see a discussion like this as thread hijacking...it''s thread evolution.
Sometimes people find things that are more interesting or debatable than the original subject and boom they are off! Myself included most of the time.
For me personally I don''t see a discussion like this as thread hijacking...it''s thread evolution.
sjz
Brilliant_Rock
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I waited to reply to this post last, because I was trying to figure out how to word my response. I think you are right, as you said in another post, we are essentially saying the same thing, only taking two different approaches to get there
I do understand how people can be more sensitive or "attuned" if you will to color, or clarity, or anything else. I can even understand why some of those people who are more sensitive to color might be bothered by it or not care for it. My quandry are the people who seem to try to be fooling themselves for whatever reason into thinking that a J stone looks "as white as" or "the same as" a stone of a more colorless color. I''m definetly not pointing fingers or naming names, or making judgements or anything like that, either.
I have read a lot of posts where people say that they choose a J, or a K, or some other color grade because they enjoy the warmth or the hint of color that those diamonds offer, and I''ve read posts where people have stated that they chose their D or E or F because they wanted the "icy white" look. And that''s cool...I appreciate the honesty. But then I''ve read other posts where people will make comments to the effect "my J looks exactly like my friends G, I can''t see any color difference at all" or "my ideal cut H looks like a D because the better cut masks the color". Those are just fictitious examples, but you get the point. I''ve read similar comments in various posts during my time on PS. Not that I say these people are not saying what they believe to be true, but sometimes I wonder if it''s not more of a bit of wishful thinking that actual fact. I know that it''s probably difficult, especially in everyday conditions, to tell the difference between some color grades of diamonds in a ring on someone''s hand. Even more difficult if the diamonds happen to be in a pendant or an earring. That being said, J looks like a J, an H looks like an H, and a D looks like a D. I think that it can be very confusing for people who come here looking for information and opinions about how the different color ranges compare, based on some of the latter examples of posts that mentioned. It''s good that often people are advised to go out and look at diamonds of various color grades in person, to get a better idea of what they are supposed to be seeing in regard to differences in color. Someone else''s opinion about how their G looks, or a picture on a computer monitor are not really the best ways to see these things. As you also pointed out in another post, color can appear different depending on the color of the metal the diamond is set in. It can also look different depending on the shape and the cut of the stone I think, too.
Bottome line is this...some people probably are actually "color sensitive", but I think that some others just use the color sensitivity card to justify having a colorless stone because they think other people will feel that they are "color snobs", and other people claim not to be color sensitive because it makes them feel better about having a diamond that has some color in it. And that''s ok. I just think it might be a little misleading to people who are just learning about diamond color and wanting objective comments about the differences. I hope this makes sense, because I''m still not sure if I''m wording all this well. Scintillating''s original post was regarding how G diamonds look and people''s thoughts about them. And somehow all this realated to that at first, but I''m honestly not sure how it all got convoluted into this...lol. Sorry again, Scintillating.
Mara
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Here is the deal SJZ, how I see it (so of course it has to be correct, right?!?!)
People have no idea what they are looking at. In reality that is. Not on PS.
Before I came to PS we saw an old euro cut I VS and thought it was so sparkly and white and this and that. So that is my definition of what an ''I'' looks like.
Well imagine when I see my G VS and it looked very simlar to me as the ''I'' did. Why? Because I am not color sensitive but also because I had no real CONCEPT of comparison to other color grades. So I thought, well then if this G is a blazingly white clear stone, and we liked the I..then I must like an H too. Greg''s little fireball of an E is a stunning stone but I think more of that has to do with the exceptional cut (it has allllll the sweeeett numbers that I dream of that are hard to find nowadays) than the fact that it''s an E. So now I''ve got I, G, and E experience, even though the I wasn''t well cut so that kind of mucks it all up. Well of course there was a natural progression to H when I wanted a better cut stone. Imagine my surprise when that looked really friggin clear and white too. So I thought, well what about taking the leap of faith on a J? In the meantime I got I SI studs from WF and those on the ear seriously look insanely clear and white to me.
Let me also throw in that for 2 years I wore N''s on my ears and thought they were H''s (years ago). So this is what I mean when I say that people have no concept of real color or color grades. I thought that my N''s were H''s and they looked dandy to me. It wasn''t untill I actually saw them compared to G''s or H''s that I was like..HOLY ... are you kidding me? But again, that was all I *knew*. So preconceived notions, mind playing tricks on you whatever...ignorance IS bliss IMO. And I think that 99% of the people out there have no idea what they are looking at.
So when someone says that their G looks like a D...maybe to them IT DOES...because it could very well look like that D at the maul jewelers with a 67% depth and 63% table and the G is superideal which people say reflects more light and the D could look dingy and dark and dull while the G looks like a manna from heaven.
For me each diamond viewing experience is SO personal that it''s hard to compare. I think that is why so many people are trying to ''quantify'' color to those others, because we are online after all and I can''t jam my diamond under your nose to say look at this J.
I also agree that many PS''ers come on here with preconceived notions about color and quality and I am so happy to say that PS debunked all of those myths for me! I am not color sensitive, hallellujah!! It saves me some money and allows me to go larger. That said I am not impressed with ICY WHITE on my hand and I find that I actually am seeingly a bit more drawn to the non-colorless stones, they seem to have more life to them somehow. Now that I''d toss a D IF out of bed if someone gave it to me, but I''d probably trade it in for a larger J SI or a pair of big honkin I SI earrings or something.
People have no idea what they are looking at. In reality that is. Not on PS.
Before I came to PS we saw an old euro cut I VS and thought it was so sparkly and white and this and that. So that is my definition of what an ''I'' looks like.
Well imagine when I see my G VS and it looked very simlar to me as the ''I'' did. Why? Because I am not color sensitive but also because I had no real CONCEPT of comparison to other color grades. So I thought, well then if this G is a blazingly white clear stone, and we liked the I..then I must like an H too. Greg''s little fireball of an E is a stunning stone but I think more of that has to do with the exceptional cut (it has allllll the sweeeett numbers that I dream of that are hard to find nowadays) than the fact that it''s an E. So now I''ve got I, G, and E experience, even though the I wasn''t well cut so that kind of mucks it all up. Well of course there was a natural progression to H when I wanted a better cut stone. Imagine my surprise when that looked really friggin clear and white too. So I thought, well what about taking the leap of faith on a J? In the meantime I got I SI studs from WF and those on the ear seriously look insanely clear and white to me.
Let me also throw in that for 2 years I wore N''s on my ears and thought they were H''s (years ago). So this is what I mean when I say that people have no concept of real color or color grades. I thought that my N''s were H''s and they looked dandy to me. It wasn''t untill I actually saw them compared to G''s or H''s that I was like..HOLY ... are you kidding me? But again, that was all I *knew*. So preconceived notions, mind playing tricks on you whatever...ignorance IS bliss IMO. And I think that 99% of the people out there have no idea what they are looking at.
So when someone says that their G looks like a D...maybe to them IT DOES...because it could very well look like that D at the maul jewelers with a 67% depth and 63% table and the G is superideal which people say reflects more light and the D could look dingy and dark and dull while the G looks like a manna from heaven.
For me each diamond viewing experience is SO personal that it''s hard to compare. I think that is why so many people are trying to ''quantify'' color to those others, because we are online after all and I can''t jam my diamond under your nose to say look at this J.
I also agree that many PS''ers come on here with preconceived notions about color and quality and I am so happy to say that PS debunked all of those myths for me! I am not color sensitive, hallellujah!! It saves me some money and allows me to go larger. That said I am not impressed with ICY WHITE on my hand and I find that I actually am seeingly a bit more drawn to the non-colorless stones, they seem to have more life to them somehow. Now that I''d toss a D IF out of bed if someone gave it to me, but I''d probably trade it in for a larger J SI or a pair of big honkin I SI earrings or something.
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Oh and Scintillating, on your original stone...if you don''t like the color in a G..do NOT let anyone talk you into it! Get something you want, even if it''s a lower color and smaller stone. I can''t stress enough that it''s important for you to be happy with your stone..regardless of what anyone else thinks. YOU wear it, not the jeweler and sorry to say, not your BF. I''d keep looking.
sjz
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Date: 8/17/2005 12:46:51 PM
Author Mara
For me each diamond viewing experience is SO personal that it''s hard to compare. I think that is why so many people are trying to ''quantify'' color to those others, because we are online after all and I can''t jam my diamond under your nose to say look at this J.
I also agree that many PS''ers come on here with preconceived notions about color and quality and I am so happy to say that PS debunked all of those myths for me! I am not color sensitive, hallellujah!! It saves me some money and allows me to go larger. That said I am not impressed with ICY WHITE on my hand and I find that I actually am seeingly a bit more drawn to the non-colorless stones, they seem to have more life to them somehow. Now that I''d toss a D IF out of bed if someone gave it to me, but I''d probably trade it in for a larger J SI or a pair of big honkin I SI earrings or something.
Ok, help me out and clarify this thing for me once and for all. Is the true definition of color sensitivity the ablity to *see* the different color nuances in the various color grades, or is it the *curse* of being bothered by it? I can definetly see color differences, but am in no way bothered by them and have always enjoyed warm diamonds, and have newly discovered that I also really enjoy the more icy white diamonds, too. So what am I? Color sensitive? Not color sensitive? Nuts?
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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For me I would define it in that you can easily pick our color differences or nuances (and then usually as a result are bothered by them, resulting in having to go with a more expensive, D/E/F/G stone).
Obviously if I thought that old euro cut ''I'' looked fabulous and white and then getting a G/H and then I earrings and now a J stone, I have been happy with all of them and then comparing Greg''s E (even when unset!) to my stones, I really feel like I am not color sensitive in that yes, I can notice small differences in color, but not from ''grade to grade''...more like a spread of grades to a spread of grades, and am not bothered by the differences.
Obviously if I thought that old euro cut ''I'' looked fabulous and white and then getting a G/H and then I earrings and now a J stone, I have been happy with all of them and then comparing Greg''s E (even when unset!) to my stones, I really feel like I am not color sensitive in that yes, I can notice small differences in color, but not from ''grade to grade''...more like a spread of grades to a spread of grades, and am not bothered by the differences.
Gemklctr
Shiny_Rock
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All good advice (and back on topic). Color appreciation is individual and subjective. Some people prefer blue stones, some red stones, some "warm" diamonds, some "icy white" diamonds. All have their intrinsic beauty. There is no right or wrong, nor is there necessarily any right or wrong in how people explain their opinions regarding color. (It''s a difficult concept to objectivise, as some other threads regarding a uniform system of grading sapphire color demonstrate.) Neither the color grade, nor the cut numbers, nor any other set of measurements can tell you how you should feel about a particular stone. As has been repeatedly emphasized on this forum, you need to see the stone and determine your own reaction to it. Especially for such a meaningful purchase, you should be satisfied that you''ve made the right choice and not simply settled (unfortunately, of course within real life budget parameters, etc.).
mrssalvo
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suzi,
When I think of someone as being color sensitive I think it is that they can see it. it doesn't necessary have anything to do with whether or not they are bothered by it. I am not very color sensitive at all. My grandmother had a 2 carat L/M that looks pretty darn good to me. My hubby can see color immedietly in stones. His light blue eyes are very sensitive and notice any hint of warmth that my eyes just don't see. I would say he is color sensitive but enough that it bothers him?? depends on the stone. He was able to see color in my G/H but it didn't bother him. that stone looked White to me, i couldn't see the color. anyway, i hope you are now not more confused
When I think of someone as being color sensitive I think it is that they can see it. it doesn't necessary have anything to do with whether or not they are bothered by it. I am not very color sensitive at all. My grandmother had a 2 carat L/M that looks pretty darn good to me. My hubby can see color immedietly in stones. His light blue eyes are very sensitive and notice any hint of warmth that my eyes just don't see. I would say he is color sensitive but enough that it bothers him?? depends on the stone. He was able to see color in my G/H but it didn't bother him. that stone looked White to me, i couldn't see the color. anyway, i hope you are now not more confused
aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
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Well, if that's the impression some people give you or if that's how you perceive it, then it's how you see it. People think what they think, I guess.Date: 8/17/2005 12:32:13 PM
Author: sjz
I do understand how people can be more sensitive or 'attuned' if you will to color, or clarity, or anything else. I can even understand why some of those people who are more sensitive to color might be bothered by it or not care for it. My quandry are the people who seem to try to be fooling themselves for whatever reason into thinking that a J stone looks 'as white as' or 'the same as' a stone of a more colorless color. I'm definetly not pointing fingers or naming names, or making judgements or anything like that, either.
I have read a lot of posts where people say that they choose a J, or a K, or some other color grade because they enjoy the warmth or the hint of color that those diamonds offer, and I've read posts where people have stated that they chose their D or E or F because they wanted the 'icy white' look. And that's cool...I appreciate the honesty. But then I've read other posts where people will make comments to the effect 'my J looks exactly like my friends G, I can't see any color difference at all' or 'my ideal cut H looks like a D because the better cut masks the color'. Those are just fictitious examples, but you get the point. I've read similar comments in various posts during my time on PS. Not that I say these people are not saying what they believe to be true, but sometimes I wonder if it's not more of a bit of wishful thinking that actual fact. I know that it's probably difficult, especially in everyday conditions, to tell the difference between some color grades of diamonds in a ring on someone's hand. Even more difficult if the diamonds happen to be in a pendant or an earring. That being said, J looks like a J, an H looks like an H, and a D looks like a D. I think that it can be very confusing for people who come here looking for information and opinions about how the different color ranges compare, based on some of the latter examples of posts that mentioned. It's good that often people are advised to go out and look at diamonds of various color grades in person, to get a better idea of what they are supposed to be seeing in regard to differences in color. Someone else's opinion about how their G looks, or a picture on a computer monitor are not really the best ways to see these things. As you also pointed out in another post, color can appear different depending on the color of the metal the diamond is set in. It can also look different depending on the shape and the cut of the stone I think, too.
Bottome line is this...some people probably are actually 'color sensitive', but I think that some others just use the color sensitivity card to justify having a colorless stone because they think other people will feel that they are 'color snobs', and other people claim not to be color sensitive because it makes them feel better about having a diamond that has some color in it. And that's ok. I just think it might be a little misleading to people who are just learning about diamond color and wanting objective comments about the differences. I hope this makes sense, because I'm still not sure if I'm wording all this well. Scintillating's original post was regarding how G diamonds look and people's thoughts about them. And somehow all this realated to that at first, but I'm honestly not sure how it all got convoluted into this...lol. Sorry again, Scintillating.
I think that some people just cannot accept that not every covets a D, IF stone. I'd rather put my energies toward helping someone find a stone that's right for them. It doesn't occur to me to wonder about their sincerety, and I have to say I'm grateful for that.
Just speaking for me, I'm glad I'm not concerned about what others think of my choices. If I were one of the folks who wanted to post and contribute genuine feedback on feeling like my stone was white, I'd likely think twice about doing it knowing there are folks who would question my motives.
Mara
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"I think that some others just use the color sensitivity card to justify having a colorless stone because they think other people will feel that they are 'color snobs', and other people claim not to be color sensitive because it makes them feel better about having a diamond that has some color in it. And that's ok. I just think it might be a little misleading to people who are just learning about diamond color and wanting objective comments about the differences. "
______________________
Maybe some people do that as you noted, but I think that others, myself included do not need to make themselves 'feel better' about anything! It's a diamond and they are beautiful. End of story. I would NEVER mislead anyone on here, especially since the whole basis of the heart of this forum is helping others. I say WHAT I SEE and I try to be objective. Having had multiple stones in my posession at once, I am able to do some basic comparisons but they are still my own opinon. If someone else disagrees, that is totally fine...color is so opinion based which is why it's hard to explain it on an online forum.
I hate to see you say that people are misleading others by saying that *they think* that their non-colorless stone looks like a colorless stone or that a well-cut I faces up to them like a G or similar. You don't see through their eyes so it's all speculation until you can.
My two cents...I also feel like this horse is slowly dying...anyone else?!?!
______________________
Maybe some people do that as you noted, but I think that others, myself included do not need to make themselves 'feel better' about anything! It's a diamond and they are beautiful. End of story. I would NEVER mislead anyone on here, especially since the whole basis of the heart of this forum is helping others. I say WHAT I SEE and I try to be objective. Having had multiple stones in my posession at once, I am able to do some basic comparisons but they are still my own opinon. If someone else disagrees, that is totally fine...color is so opinion based which is why it's hard to explain it on an online forum.
I hate to see you say that people are misleading others by saying that *they think* that their non-colorless stone looks like a colorless stone or that a well-cut I faces up to them like a G or similar. You don't see through their eyes so it's all speculation until you can.
My two cents...I also feel like this horse is slowly dying...anyone else?!?!
Gemklctr
Shiny_Rock
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Thanks. I thought so when I saw it in the case and, though I never would have believed I would consider an M, the price was right so I added it to my collection. It''s easy to see the color next to the F, but it still has lots of fire and brilliance and worn alone in normal lighting conditions (as pointed out by a number of commenters) the color is not nearly as noticeable. In any event, the color is not that much different from what most non-Pricescope people are familiar with. A good friend of mine was the appraiser for a major BM chain several years ago, and the best color diamond in their inventory was a "K".
sjz
Brilliant_Rock
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Mara, I think that you and Alj are not getting what I''m saying. I don''t think that anyone is INTENTIONALLY misleading others by stating their opinions. Not at all. I just think this whole issue of color sensitivity is clouding the issue for some people who are looking for more objective information. I was kind of hoping that some of the credentialed experts would chime in, but so far Cflutist is the only one that has given a more educated opinion other than what she "thinks".
As far as the horse dying...if you feel that way, you are perfectly welcome to abandon this particular horse and find another ride. I thought that this discussion was a pretty interesting one. I do understand, from reading lots of other threads, that you and Alj both have a different "stance" on this particular issue, and that''s fine. I happen to think it''s a constructive issue to discuss and think that the horse looks pretty lively still from my vantage point. I''m still trying to find out the answer to Aljdeweys''s diamond challenge, and still hoping to see some people post pictures of their G stones. I also want to find out what Scintillating is going to do about the G diamond in question.
sjz
Brilliant_Rock
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I love the warmer colored diamonds when worn with sterling silver. I haven''t found any good quality diamonds set in silver, but I do have some very beautiful silver rings that look fabulous with my J diamond. As a matter of fact, that''s one reason I ended up having it reset from a yellow gold setting to a white gold setting. I have a gorgeous sterling silver wide band ring in a celtic design that looks to die for with my J solitaire worn as a wedding set. The J also looks good when paired with turquoise. I would love to have a K, L, or M diamond set in white gold or sterling with turqoise side stones. I think that it would be incredibly beautiful.
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Regardless of what people THINK, whether it's an expert or a consumer, is that diamond grading is SUBJECTIVE. So even if CF saw 100000 stones with her expert credentialed eyes, it would still be just what SHE THINKS. There's no 'stamp of approval' on CF's way of color thinking. Same with Rich or OldMiner or anyone else. Diamond Grading is done by humans.
So in reality, sorry to say that I, personally, don't give tons more credence to someone who is credentialed in terms of what they think about diamond color. It's TOO personal. Same with GIA or AGS. Done by humans. So even if a diamond grade says J...I have had Brian at WF tell me 'well this looks more like an I'. Same with clarity...aka this is an SI1 but it should have been a VS. Well it's his opinion it's an I and GIA's that it's a J or that it's a VS vs an SI. Fine! It's personal.
IMO regardless of who says what, it's all perception based on the individual. So I guess I would take whatever anyone says with a grain of salt...unless you can gauge for yourself by going into stores and creating YOUR OWN color chart for how you see color...otherwise it will always be speculation and someone will always feel like someone is being misled I guess.
That is my point and that's where I feel like the horse is dying. It's all subjective!
So in reality, sorry to say that I, personally, don't give tons more credence to someone who is credentialed in terms of what they think about diamond color. It's TOO personal. Same with GIA or AGS. Done by humans. So even if a diamond grade says J...I have had Brian at WF tell me 'well this looks more like an I'. Same with clarity...aka this is an SI1 but it should have been a VS. Well it's his opinion it's an I and GIA's that it's a J or that it's a VS vs an SI. Fine! It's personal.
IMO regardless of who says what, it's all perception based on the individual. So I guess I would take whatever anyone says with a grain of salt...unless you can gauge for yourself by going into stores and creating YOUR OWN color chart for how you see color...otherwise it will always be speculation and someone will always feel like someone is being misled I guess.
That is my point and that's where I feel like the horse is dying. It's all subjective!
sjz
Brilliant_Rock
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I get what you are saying, Mara, and for the record, I feel the same way. I don''t usually take someone else''s opinion as gospel, either. I do think that the experts are more likely to have a more "trained" opinion, though. They see a lot more diamonds than the average consumer, so I would think by sheer numbers alone most of them are better at judging diamonds than average people. There are those who read PS, a lot of them ony lurk for the most part, that do take a lot of what you and other consumers give as their opinions very seriously. To them, a lot of PS regulars are "experts". That''s why I think it''s a good idea once in a while to throw out that little disclaimer that what we as consumers are stating really are our opinions, which are formed by a lot of variable factors, including the fact that some people claim to be more color sensitive than others. Heck, believe it or not, people even PM
ME
sometimes to ask for MY opinon on something diamond related! I know...it kind of shocks me, too! I''ve had some people ask me in the past few days about the differences between my F and my J. I try to be as honest and accurate in my replies as I possibly can, but most of the time I tell people to judge for themselves. Pictures always help, but they aren''t always all that accurate, as we all well know. And some people here are a lot more adamant about *their* opinions than others, you have to admit that
. I think some of the more adamant people tend to get more credence due to the sheer conviction they convey. That doesn''t always make them more credible (sometimes maybe, but not always).
aljdewey
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Date: 8/17/2005 1:45:51 PM
Author: sjz
Mara, I think that you and Alj are not getting what I''m saying. I don''t think that anyone is INTENTIONALLY misleading others by stating their opinions. Not at all. I just think this whole issue of color sensitivity is clouding the issue for some people who are looking for more objective information.
I think I''m getting exactly what you''re saying. You''re saying that some people have deluded themselves into believing that their lower colored stones face up as white as higher colored stones because it''s the only way they can feel adequate about their stones. I completely get the point....I just don''t agree.
You''re also saying that people who relate such experiences (a group that does include myself and Mara, since we are J-owners) do a disservice to the unknowing by suggesting that there is no difference between higher and lower colored stones. That''s untrue. We aren''t saying there isn''t a difference.....of course there is *some* difference. We are saying that WE cannot *see* differences in everyday viewing/lighting conditions. Kinda like saying "one of those identically proportioned twin elephants weighs 399 lbs, and the other weighs 401 lbs. I *know* there''s a measureable difference, but I can''t *see* which ones weighs more when they aren''t on the scale."
Since many of us are quick to add the disclaimer that others may not have the same experiences we do (I don''t see it, but you may), it''s a stretch for me to think that the unsuspecting masses are being duped or mislead by someone''s measly opinion on a forum.
I own both J stones and stones of better color. The J stones were the later purchases, and at the time of purchase, I easily could have afforded to go with higher color in the same size had I wanted to. My plan was to see them for myself, and if I didn''t like them or was bothered by tint, I''d return them and get the same size stones in a higher color. I couldn''t tell the difference. That s not supposition, SJZ....it''s FACT. I know you don''t want to believe it, but there it is. I cannot see the difference face-up, mounted, in every day conditions. I can''t even see the difference face up when they are next to each other.
I was kind of hoping that some of the credentialed experts would chime in, but so far Cflutist is the only one that has given a more educated opinion other than what she ''thinks''.
Unfortunately, I don''t carry the pedigree/credentials you want, so I''ll have to humbly offer my opinion as someone who''s an expert at being a consumer.Again, no one is saying that a trained eye cannot see the difference. But are most consumers eyes as trained as "credentialed" people are? Do most people buy their stones based only on what pleases a credentialed eye, or do they buy based on what pleases their own eyes? Finally, I can positively assure you there is no one more credentialed to offer feedback on what *my* eyes observe than I am.
I''m still trying to find out the answer to Aljdeweys''s diamond challenge, and still hoping to see some people post pictures of their G stones. I also want to find out what Scintillating is going to do about the G diamond in question.
I was deferring to give more folks time to also registered their thoughts.....but on that topic, you mentioned which stones you thought were brighter and that you couldn''t likely grade them. I wasn''t asking anyone to grade them, just to say which is the warmer stone in each of the 3 sets of pictures? Maybe you could rework your replies in those terms before I post the answers?
Gemklctr
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2005
- Messages
- 451
I''m with you. This M was set in platinum with 2 15+ point baguettes about G in color when I acquired it, and it looked great That setting now holds the 3.25 fancy yellow in my comparison post and the M is in the canary''s prior setting (it overpowered the canary) except that I changed out the head from yellow to white.
cutes814
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2005
- Messages
- 1,803
Scintillating,
I was just curious if you decided to go with the 1.26 G. If the color is obvious to you and it bothers you, then I say don''t get it and go a little higher in color and sacrafice either on size or clarity. When it boils down to is YOU are the one wearing the ring. You have to be completely happy with this stone.
I don''t know if I''m a color sensitive person or not, but I can see hints of warmth when two stones are compared side by side, with one stone being lower in color than the other. But that doesn''t bother me, unless it starts looking yellow. For my engagement ring, we decided with an I stone. To me, it''s not worth it to spend money for a better color is I won''t be able to tell much of a difference in "every day viewing" conditions. I love the look of the G-H-I color stones.
Give us an update on what your progress is. Good luck finding the stone that you will love.
I was just curious if you decided to go with the 1.26 G. If the color is obvious to you and it bothers you, then I say don''t get it and go a little higher in color and sacrafice either on size or clarity. When it boils down to is YOU are the one wearing the ring. You have to be completely happy with this stone.
I don''t know if I''m a color sensitive person or not, but I can see hints of warmth when two stones are compared side by side, with one stone being lower in color than the other. But that doesn''t bother me, unless it starts looking yellow. For my engagement ring, we decided with an I stone. To me, it''s not worth it to spend money for a better color is I won''t be able to tell much of a difference in "every day viewing" conditions. I love the look of the G-H-I color stones.
Give us an update on what your progress is. Good luck finding the stone that you will love.
sjz
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2005
- Messages
- 1,173
All righty, then, Aljdewey...to me, based on the quality of the pictures, the resolution of my computer screen, my lack of sleep for staying up too late on PS last night, and the fact that I have just only put in my contacts today, here''s my final answer...lol
The stone on the left in the first two pictures appears to be smaller, less sparkly, and warmer than the stone on the right. It''s harder to tell from the earlobe pictures, because the earring is tilted differently in the two pictures. The diamond on the right appears to be brighter in all of the pictures, but that could be because there is more glare from the diamond on the right in all three pictures. Or it could just be coincidental. Whatever, they don''t look the same in the pictures, regardless. Hopefully they look more the same in person if they are supposed to be a matched set of earrings.
I did go to my husband''s computer and look at your pictures on his computer screen. It''s much more high resolution than the one on my laptop, as well as having a matte finish to minimize glare. The diamond on the left in the first two pictures looked darker as opposed to warmer on his computer screen, but the glare or reflection or whatever it is coming off the diamonds looked pretty much the same.
The stone on the left in the first two pictures appears to be smaller, less sparkly, and warmer than the stone on the right. It''s harder to tell from the earlobe pictures, because the earring is tilted differently in the two pictures. The diamond on the right appears to be brighter in all of the pictures, but that could be because there is more glare from the diamond on the right in all three pictures. Or it could just be coincidental. Whatever, they don''t look the same in the pictures, regardless. Hopefully they look more the same in person if they are supposed to be a matched set of earrings.
I did go to my husband''s computer and look at your pictures on his computer screen. It''s much more high resolution than the one on my laptop, as well as having a matte finish to minimize glare. The diamond on the left in the first two pictures looked darker as opposed to warmer on his computer screen, but the glare or reflection or whatever it is coming off the diamonds looked pretty much the same.
lmurden
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- May 3, 2004
- Messages
- 2,101
I can''t wait for the DC get together this Sunday so I can color compare my diamond ring with the others. The last time we got together and compared our diamonds no one could tell the difference until we compared them side by side and the diamond colors ranged from E-K. Also some were Ideal vs Well cut. What I can say for sure is that the colorless diamond looked more crisp
to me when compared to near colorless and slightly tinted diamonds. Go figure.
aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2002
- Messages
- 9,170
Date: 8/17/2005 2:21:30 PM
Author: sjz
I get what you are saying, Mara, and for the record, I feel the same way. I don''t usually take someone else''s opinion as gospel, either. I do think that the experts are more likely to have a more ''trained'' opinion, though. They see a lot more diamonds than the average consumer, so I would think by sheer numbers alone most of them are better at judging diamonds than average people.
At the risk of repeating myself, you''re trying to tie together two things that are completely different and treat them interchangably when they aren''t.
On the one hand, there is trained opinion that gives a credentialed, learned opinion of what color a diamond is. While subjective, it''s an educated opinion based on years of seeing diamonds and training. That opinion has MUCH value when you are purchasing a stone and trying to assess the fairness of the price associated with that grade. It also means that folks who are trained to recognize these subtle differences will possibly also see them under daily wear conditions....just like folks who train for years at Julliard can hear the same music on the elevator that I do, but they hear far more distinct elements than I do because of their training.
On the *other* hand...and this is the hand we''ve been speaking to since the inception of this thread (or trying to), there is the consumer PERCEPTION of whether or not those distinctions are visibly noticeable to them in non-lab settings. This opinion doesn''t have to be educated; it is simply meant to reflect how a consumer perceives the warmth or lack thereof in his/her stone. This opinion ALSO has value because folks who truly don''t see the color difference between an F and a G can save a ton of money......which can be saved or applied to a better clarity or more size....whatever turns them on.
There is a purpose and a value for both opinions.
There are those who read PS, a lot of them ony lurk for the most part, that do take a lot of what you and other consumers give as their opinions very seriously. To them, a lot of PS regulars are ''experts''. That''s why I think it''s a good idea once in a while to throw out that little disclaimer that what we as consumers are stating really are our opinions, which are formed by a lot of variable factors, including the fact that some people claim to be more color sensitive than others.
Oh my goodness.....SJZ, that''s exactly what folks have been doing! They''ve been saying "I find my J to look the same as my H, but that''s just how I see it, and you may not see it the same way. You need to see stones yourself...you may be more sensitive to color than I am."
I just don''t get it....on the one hand, you tell everyone how important it is to add disclaimers that it''s just their opinion (which they already have done), and yet when/if they do that, then they "aren''t being honest with themselves, or they are deluded about the real color of their stone and have to make excuses for it so they can feel better about it."
Honestly, for the folks who choose to buy lower colored stones, there''s just no way to satisfy the masses, is there? I''m sure they feel anything but enthusiastic now about the prospect of actually trying to help others and give feedback.If we''re really worried about the newbies and being misled, that''s certainly one way to solve it....make it so no one feels comfortable sharing an honest, individual opinion because their damned if they do and damned if they don''t.
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