question for parents

[KimberlyH]

Date: 10/28/2009 3:12:08 PM
Author: TooPatient

What would any of you do?

You asked, here's my answer.

If I were you I would get the hell away from this person you call a man and I would report the suspected abuse to the authorities. Then I would seek counseling to sort out why I think being with a person like him , a person who absconds his parental responsibilties and thinks paying for private school while abandoning his child in every other way, is acceptable and how I can ensure it won't happen again.

If I were him I would give up anything and everything I had, including my relationship with you because you've essentially said it's okay for my child to live like this, to ensure my child was properly cared for. I'd go into debt, I'd lose my house, I'd sell my stupid planes and electronics, I'd work three jobs, I'd do anything to make sure she's okay, because that's what it means to be a parent.

 

[lucyandroger]

ETA - just saw Kimberly H's comment before mine. I completely agree with her.

Date: 10/28/2009 3:12:08 PM
Author: TooPatient
People keep saying we should do something to help her. I would love to. I'm also sure that B would do it to. (I think he really does want to see her but doesn't know how to get her out of there)

What would any of you do?
I'd really like to know if I've missed anything that can be done. If there is anything that can be done I'd love to know about it.


Sell off everything we have & move in with my family? That would pay about one month of just attorney fees. (and leave a situation where the court wouldn't be able to give him custody -- have to have a place to live, including a bedroom for her)

You already said that selling the two planes would get you $20,000. Since you're planning to buy a diamond ring, I assume there are some savings somewhere? If you move in with your family and both continue to work, then the money will add up because you'll have reduced your expenses.

Quit paying for her schooling and give it to people to fight this in court? Okay, so she loses all of her friends & gets stuck in a new school with people who don't know her situation. Okay, that is about 1/4 the price of ONE day at court.

Why don't you try giving up your luxuries - giant tv, diamonds, airplanes, etc. before giving up her schooling. Besides, children change schools ALL the time and they learn to make friends and you can educate the new school about her situation. And 1/4 of one day in court, really?? I don't think so.

Just take her? So she can spend the next 10 years moving from place to place using a different name, not having any friends for fear of being found?

Report the mother for abuse? Tried that. She knows what to say and not say. She knows what bruises and doesn't. (registered nurse with a masters degree in social work) -- That just accomplished putting the little girl through a miserably stressful situation.

Just suck it up and take whatever visitation we can win? Been there. Lived through that.
The little girl was miserable. She had different rules in each house (had to bathe, wear clean clothes, brush her hair - or let me do it, eat dinner - often something she helped decide on and helped cook, and (gasp) not say bad things about her mother -- Reverse that for her mother's house), didn't know which house she was going to be in on any given day (we did try a calendar for her to carry so she knew, but things often changed last minute -- not our doing, what were we going to say 'you were supposed to pick her up, if you can't then she can just sit at an empty school'?), etc.

Do you have any idea how many divorced parents make this work?! And so because you adults couldn't get your act together with the scheduling, she should just never get to see her father? "EVER." as you put it earlier. Are you sure you weren't the one who was miserable? Nobody said raising a child was easy.

Call her and go to her plays and stuff? Tried that. Her mother wouldn't give her the phone. If we showed up at an event and her mother was there, she'd scream at us. (already has) How would that help the girl?

Why don't you go to court and get court-mandated phone appointments along with your visitation so that if the mother refuses, she can be held in contempt? Is it that much effort to keep attempting to call the girl? Really..dialing a number once a day is too much for B to do for his daughter?

How would it help the girl? um....it would show her that she has a father that loves her and cares for her no matter what. It would show her that B has an interest in her life. You can't take the mother screaming at you so you punish the daughter? How is that okay?


What is left?
What can we do for her?

Stop making excuses and BE A PART OF HER LIFE.

But I'm confused because didn't you say that B did not want to have contact with this girl ever again? Now you're saying that you two are doing everything you can to have contact??

I honestly want to know because I can't think of anything else.

 

[House Cat]

The woman raising B''s ten year old needs to be fought. A psychologist stated the child was a lost cause due to the mother? OK, then a full psych eval for mom should have been requested for court. So what if she has a master''s in social work? Another psych eval of the child needs to be made as well. What, exactly was the diagnosis given to the child? How many times did this psychologist see this child? Did it every occur to the psychologist that the child might be care taking for the mother? Children will also lie for their parents in order to stay safe in the home in which they are living. They know they will be abused if they tell the truth.

The thing is, this is a situation where the child is lost. B shouldn''t stop searching until he finds the child again. To leave the child with the abusive parent and play the victim is pathetic. Sell the darned planes, get the $20,000, get the kid some help. Get into a smaller home, do whatever needs to be done. Save the child.

Psychological abuse is very real. Chronic psychological abuse causes changes within a human being that can become irreparable when that person grows older. Make no mistake, she won''t grow up to be "just like mom." She will be the product of mom''s abuse. She will NOT grow up to be a well adjusted human being. That is a pipe dream. He CAN intervene now and do something about it. His daughter is still pliable. He can get her real help. It all starts with a court ordered psych eval for the mother and the daughter.

This thread is so upsetting to me. I guess when you aren''t educated on abuse and its outcomes, it''s easier to hide your head in the sand.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 10/28/2009 3:13:44 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Ditto every single word of Swimmer''s last post.

There are so many red flags in this situation that my head is spinning.

First of all, there are worse situations out there. I have seen them in working in a divorce office. I have seen (and this isn''t going to make all of you parents out there happy) parents where both of the mother and the father paid huge amounts of money to fight to NOT have custody of the child. I''ve seen children kidnapped by one parent, I''ve seen thousands of dollars spent to keep a child and then have that parent abandon them later, abuse, neglect, etc etc etc.

My own father''s history, where his three sons were taken away from him, taken to another state, and he wasn''t allowed to see them. She told everyone that her new husband was their father (her new hubby was 12 years older than the oldest bro btw). She denied that my father existed. She forced my oldest brother (now deceased) to stand up in front of the courts and tell them that he wanted nothing further to do with his father. The court granted full custody to the mother, with alimony and child support being paid to her--more money than my dad was making at the time. He worked 3 jobs so he could save up money to fly out there and visit them, under their mother''s watch, and talk to them for maybe 15 minutes. And he''d do this repeatedly. For those precious 15 minutes that eh got to spend with his sons. Sometimes he''d fly out there and she wouldn''t let them see him. A lawyer, working at JC Penneys selling shoes on the side so he could pay his child support and go visit his 3 boys. It was never beneath him. He would have done anything in his power to see them, and he did whatever he could. When the oldest turned 18, he moved back here to New Mexico to be with his father, and hardly talked to his mother until he died of brain cancer at 23. And guess what? My other two brothers, who are mid-late 40s now have anger management issues and depression, not to mention their own relationship problems due to this saga. And my dad wanted to help anyone he could, so they wouldn''t have to go through the same situation he did--so he became a divorce attorney. And he has spent his life doing what he could to prevent something like this from happening to other people.

This is how a normal parent (and a vast majority of these ladies here) acts.

What is striking me TP, is that for you this all boils down to money. I have heard nothing but talk of money in this thread and others. ''I don''t have a better job so we can''t afford things...'' ''B has planes, he can''t sell them for enough money to do anything with.'' (BTW, $20,000 pays for almost 17 months of her monthly babysitting fees) ''B loves his projection TV'' ''Bruce bought $2,000 worth of electronic equipment this weekend'' ''Bruce is willing to buy me a ring--should I do the $1,700 one or the $3,700 one?''

What about downsizing your house? What about selling those planes? What about BOTH of you getting a second job? You know, there are so many things you can do that you aren''t doing if you both truly wanted to see or be in this child''s life.

In every post I''ve read here, it''s about you & B. It''s not about the little girl. It''s about how her babysitting expenses are too much, and unreasonable, and you guys can''t afford it. Yet the woodworking, the planes, the electronics, the big dinner parties...You yourself have complained on other threads about how much money he spends on his stuff (see above for the usual suspects) and how he won''t buy you a ring because it''s too expensive.

And this is slightly off-topic, but since others have hit on it, lets break this down a little bit.
You: 24, with from what I''ve read elsewhere, an estranged father of 5 years (which strangely is along the same time frame as your relationship with B), converting to Orthodox Judaism for B
Him: 53, with a fungal infection thats now spreading to you, twice divorced, two estranged daughters, two crazy ex wives

You take care of 99% of B''s life, including his tax guys, the cooking, the cleaning, and who knows what else. He''s living in a house that you''re helping to pay for, that your name is not on, and he can''t operate without you.

These are not the signs of a normal healthy relationship, and I can''t see how this relationship is fulfilling for you.

From what I can tell, the most constant thing in B''s life--his 18 year old cat.

You are a young intelligent woman. You have your whole life ahead of you. A super bright future, and honestly, from what I''ve seen, I think you''re missing out on life.

Back to the little girl, and to a comment said elsewhere...TGal hit it on the head: He''s the common denominator.

Oh, and speaking as a Psych undergrad--those two shrinks you''ve gone to?

No psychology professional worth their salt would say they''d give up on a person--especially after not meeting the person in question.

AMEN SISTER!

TP - put your big girl panties on and do something for this girl or GET OUT. Your relationship with B is obviously not healthy but if you are hell bent on staying with this person then woman up and DO THE RIGHT THING. B''s daughter is in desperate need of help any way that she can get it and it''s disgusting to see you tit-for-tat over her safety and well-being.

If B is not willing to make the necessary sacrifices in order to care for his own flesh and blood then I think you really need to look at that for what it is. If he''s treating his own child like this I can''t imagine how he''s treated his previous wives or how he could treat you in the future. Call Child Protective Services, call the police, call whomever to get B''s daughter the help that she deserves. It doesn''t matter if you have to call every day or every hour. That little girl deserves so much better in life.

 

[packrat]

Date: 10/28/2009 4:48:53 PM
Author: House Cat
The woman raising B''s ten year old needs to be fought. A psychologist stated the child was a lost cause due to the mother? OK, then a full psych eval for mom should have been requested for court. So what if she has a master''s in social work? Another psych eval of the child needs to be made as well. What, exactly was the diagnosis given to the child? How many times did this psychologist see this child? Did it every occur to the psychologist that the child might be care taking for the mother? Children will also lie for their parents in order to stay safe in the home in which they are living. They know they will be abused if they tell the truth.

The thing is, this is a situation where the child is lost. B shouldn''t stop searching until he finds the child again. To leave the child with the abusive parent and play the victim is pathetic. Sell the darned planes, get the $20,000, get the kid some help. Get into a smaller home, do whatever needs to be done. Save the child.

Psychological abuse is very real. Chronic psychological abuse causes changes within a human being that can become irreparable when that person grows older. Make no mistake, she won''t grow up to be ''just like mom.'' She will be the product of mom''s abuse. She will NOT grow up to be a well adjusted human being. That is a pipe dream. He CAN intervene now and do something about it. His daughter is still pliable. He can get her real help. It all starts with a court ordered psych eval for the mother and the daughter.

This thread is so upsetting to me. I guess when you aren''t educated on abuse and its outcomes, it''s easier to hide your head in the sand.

I don''t even think you have to be educated about it, I think it''s just a matter of putting someone else''s needs ahead of your own. You don''t even have to be a parent to do that. Just compassionate.

I''m just lost thru this whole thread.

 

[E B]

I'll try to keep this short.

It's pretty clear from all the "but...but...buts" in this thread that neither you or B are willing to FULLY do what it takes to rescue this child, and likely nothing we say will change your mind. That said, something needs to be done. You said you reported the mother for abuse- do it again. And again. And again. Call CPS (Child Protective Services) and tell them everything you've told us, ASAP.

 

[crystalheart1]

Ya know... I was not sure if I wanted to post here or not... BUT

There is some major DISFUNCTION. I went back to read some of your previous posts ( since some of the posts here refer to them ) and WOW
You have some issues to deal with Girl...

First - He won''t do anything social with you...you cook and watch movies at home.
Second - He did not want to get you a ring, because he is too practical to spend the money
Third - There are no pictures of you at his office desck
Fourth- He won''t take you to company events ( I am sure spouses are included at times)- people posted this as red flag alerts
Fifth - You seem to have your own family issues with your Mom and Stepfather
Sixth- You posted TMI details of having sex at the age of 13 - and you were a Sunday School teacher at the same time ???
Seven- You have no romance with this man
Eight- He has Major Health issues and sounds like he is not mentally sound
Nine- You talk about money issues, but also say you purchased a 110'' inch screen tv, new appliances for the home, new windows etc..

Do you have any reason to stay in this awful situation...and are you sure of the things you stated regarding his daughters?
How do you know so much of what is going on , if he has no contact with his daughters ? Are you paying a PI?
NOthing adds up...You have posted alot of issues in the past month

You should get some professional help - and report the abuse ( if it is true ) as soon as you can..

 

[Haven]

Date: 10/28/2009 1:57:29 PM
Author: swimmer
Psychologists do not say 'there is no hope, walk away' from a child. Ever. Too patient, you might have wanted to hear that, but it was not said by a licensed professional. No way. No how. And if it actually was, report him or her immediately to your state's licensing board and make sure that you set up an appointment with a new therapist immediately for your boyfriend's child.

How exactly is paying for a private school the same thing as providing the unconditional love and support that a child requires for healthy development? You HINTED to the school therapist that there MIGHT be abuse? Any rational adult can think of thousands more things that a caring person can do to help a child in an abusive situation. Today. Your ability to check in with folks who encounter the child is such a cop out that it makes my skin crawl with revulsion. You are showing too much patience with your boyfriend, but not enough towards a child.

Like many others reading your horror story posts, I am wondering if Bruce is emotionally abusing you as well. Withholding affection and a commitment after 5 years? As I am sure you know, the majority of Orthodox men get engaged within three months of beginning a relationship. My apologies for my confusion earlier about your relationship status, but be thrilled that he is NOT your fiance and deliriously happy that you are not legally connected to this man through marriage. This is not a man that can make a commitment to anyone but his own interests. Keep on living your delusion if you want, but hopefully you can read the words of the more articulate and compassionate ladies on here who are advising you so well to OPEN YOUR EYES to his self centered and heartless ways. Or of course you can stay with him and perpetuate this cycle of abuse and neglect. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt as they say, but you are choosing your own state of bondage; the children your partner has chosen to abandon did not choose their neglect/abuse status, he forced it on them.

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

TooPatient--It sounds like you are in so deep with this guy that you cannot really see what you are getting yourself into. It is extremely frightening to me that your posts can elicit this much concern for your well being *despite* the fact that you yourself do not see anything awry with your relationship and with this man you plan to marry. That tells me that the red flags are so big, and so blazing red hot, that they can't even be masked by your blind love for this guy.

I fear for you, for your welfare and your happiness. Your posts sound like rationalizations from the inner circle of a cult. You are willingly partnering with a man who has proven he is not very good to others. He cannot be any good for you. If you were my little sister, I'd beg you to come and stay with me for as long as it took for you to see your situation for what it really is.

 

[Gypsy]

I don't even know who to ditto here, there are just too many.

I'll start with what Haven said about the cult. Ditto. And then go to the rest of her post.

I'm move on to Swimmer's entire post.

And Freke's.

And ... well. You get the point.



Here's what I wanted to add: Excuses are a dime a dozen... whether they are his excuses for not seeing his child, for not treating you as you deserve to be treated, your excuses for not helping the child, or for not helping yourself. It all boils down to one thing whether we are talking about you or the child: you aren't willing to do anything about either situation.

If you think his excuses for ANY of this are reasonable: the one with the issue is YOU at this point. He's a lost cause at his age and with his track record. I'm not a psychologist so I can say it. And the people who aren't lost causes: you and that child are too crippled to do anything. You because of your own issue with your parents or whatever the cause: the result is you wanting to feel loved and special so much you are willing to sell your self respect, and the is helpless child because she is a child. Nothing we can say can make you help either of situation. BUT:

You are not a child. You are not helpless. All the excuses in here are just that BS excuses. There is PLENTY you could be doing, both to help yourself or that child. You just aren't willing to do any of it. And if you stick around you will just end up (best case senario) like his crazy ex-wives: discarded, with a child, and bitter while he moves on to the next young lady waiting in the wings to take care of him, so he can avoid his responsibilities as a POSIVITELY contributing member of society. Help yourself, and maybe in the process then you might be able to figure out a way to help her. But until you can see past the excuses to the heart of things, nothing is going to change. For anyone.

And as someone whose dad did abandon her: nothing I've read here justifies the abandonment. But sometimes it is for the best. Personally, from what I've read... she might be better off without him. You certainly would be.

 

[Gypsy]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[neatfreak]

TP-Where in the US are you?

 

[crystalheart1]

I believe she said in Washington State...near Seattle maybe???

 

[TooPatient]

Date: 10/29/2009 1:32:42 PM
Author: crystalheart1
I believe she said in Washington State...near Seattle maybe???

That is correct.

 

[soocool]

TP, I have read throroughly through all these posts this morning and I feel that as a mom in my 50''s I will speak to you as if you were my own daughter. I think you''ll find that there are better men out there for you. Yes, you probably do love this guy, but from what you have writtern here and in other threads. However, I don''t get the feeling that he truly loves you or cares for you in the way he should. I have a feeling the things you have posted in the various threads about your SO is because somewhere in the back of your mind you know things are not right. Trust your hunches!

You truly do deserve better. You have done everything for him and just rationalize his behavior. You should never have to make excuses for someone. You shouldn''t see things through his eyes. Open your eyes and think about your situation long and hard. Does all of this sound normal to you? You are too special a person to be treated like this. Do something for yourself and get out of the relationship and give yourself time to find yourself. You are still very young and have a lot of great living to do and not get caught up in someone else''s drama. People are saying these things here not to hurt you, but to help you.

 

[crystalheart1]

SooCool... That was such a warm and thoughtful post. You really made your point clear in a kind and caring way.

Everything you said was true.

I hope TP also starts looking at herself as the priority here.. I think she is aware of the short comings of how she is being treated.

A man that cares for you and Loves you, treats you much better than you have been treated.

Please try to get out of this situation while you can, and start a new and improved life for yourself.

When the right man comes along, you will realize how wonderful a normal relationship is.

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 10/28/2009 3:13:44 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Ditto every single word of Swimmer's last post.

There are so many red flags in this situation that my head is spinning.

First of all, there are worse situations out there. I have seen them in working in a divorce office. I have seen (and this isn't going to make all of you parents out there happy) parents where both of the mother and the father paid huge amounts of money to fight to NOT have custody of the child. I've seen children kidnapped by one parent, I've seen thousands of dollars spent to keep a child and then have that parent abandon them later, abuse, neglect, etc etc etc.

My own father's history, where his three sons were taken away from him, taken to another state, and he wasn't allowed to see them. She told everyone that her new husband was their father (her new hubby was 12 years older than the oldest bro btw). She denied that my father existed. She forced my oldest brother (now deceased) to stand up in front of the courts and tell them that he wanted nothing further to do with his father. The court granted full custody to the mother, with alimony and child support being paid to her--more money than my dad was making at the time. He worked 3 jobs so he could save up money to fly out there and visit them, under their mother's watch, and talk to them for maybe 15 minutes. And he'd do this repeatedly. For those precious 15 minutes that eh got to spend with his sons. Sometimes he'd fly out there and she wouldn't let them see him. A lawyer, working at JC Penneys selling shoes on the side so he could pay his child support and go visit his 3 boys. It was never beneath him. He would have done anything in his power to see them, and he did whatever he could. When the oldest turned 18, he moved back here to New Mexico to be with his father, and hardly talked to his mother until he died of brain cancer at 23. And guess what? My other two brothers, who are mid-late 40s now have anger management issues and depression, not to mention their own relationship problems due to this saga. And my dad wanted to help anyone he could, so they wouldn't have to go through the same situation he did--so he became a divorce attorney. And he has spent his life doing what he could to prevent something like this from happening to other people.

This is how a normal parent (and a vast majority of these ladies here) acts.

What is striking me TP, is that for you this all boils down to money. I have heard nothing but talk of money in this thread and others. 'I don't have a better job so we can't afford things...' 'B has planes, he can't sell them for enough money to do anything with.' (BTW, $20,000 pays for almost 17 months of her monthly babysitting fees) 'B loves his projection TV' 'Bruce bought $2,000 worth of electronic equipment this weekend' 'Bruce is willing to buy me a ring--should I do the $1,700 one or the $3,700 one?'

What about downsizing your house? What about selling those planes? What about BOTH of you getting a second job? You know, there are so many things you can do that you aren't doing if you both truly wanted to see or be in this child's life.

In every post I've read here, it's about you & B. It's not about the little girl. It's about how her babysitting expenses are too much, and unreasonable, and you guys can't afford it. Yet the woodworking, the planes, the electronics, the big dinner parties...You yourself have complained on other threads about how much money he spends on his stuff (see above for the usual suspects) and how he won't buy you a ring because it's too expensive.

And this is slightly off-topic, but since others have hit on it, lets break this down a little bit.
You: 24, with from what I've read elsewhere, an estranged father of 5 years (which strangely is along the same time frame as your relationship with B), converting to Orthodox Judaism for B
Him: 53, with a fungal infection thats now spreading to you, twice divorced, two estranged daughters, two crazy ex wives

You take care of 99% of B's life, including his tax guys, the cooking, the cleaning, and who knows what else. He's living in a house that you're helping to pay for, that your name is not on, and he can't operate without you.

These are not the signs of a normal healthy relationship, and I can't see how this relationship is fulfilling for you.

From what I can tell, the most constant thing in B's life--his 18 year old cat.

You are a young intelligent woman. You have your whole life ahead of you. A super bright future, and honestly, from what I've seen, I think you're missing out on life.

Back to the little girl, and to a comment said elsewhere...TGal hit it on the head: He's the common denominator.

Oh, and speaking as a Psych undergrad--those two shrinks you've gone to?

No psychology professional worth their salt would say they'd give up on a person--especially after not meeting the person in question.

+1.

And I have a hard time swallowing the following, earlier on in this thread. No qualified professional would ever say the following - if they did, they aren't qualified NOR professional and should be reported to their respective association or board like, yesterday:
"We had her seeing a psychologist 3 times a week. After many months of this, the psychologist told us (again, "off the record") that the BEST case would be that this girl grows up to be self centered, manipulative, and a massive PITA. The only way this "best case" could occur is if the mother died NOW and we got the kid help. Therapy every day. Very set routine. And more. I would have had to quit working and dedicate my life to helping her get past stuff."

While it's true the child might have issues, no respectable person in the mental health arena would ever say the above. It's not like she's a horse with a broken leg. She is a CHILD. A vulnerable, impressionable, likely troubled CHILD.

Reading this entire thread has just left me feeling a little sick to my stomach. I feel badly for that poor little girl. How horrible it must be to have parents like hers. Not just the mother but a father who "doesn't want a relationship with her, ever". She's SEVEN. She's in what, grade two or three?! Horrible.

I hope you can see this situation for what it is and your SO for who he is. He is not a victim here.

 

[NakedFinger]

All I can say is WOW, WTF, something along those lines.

I read every single response on this thread (which I dont normally do), and there is nothing I can say about this disgusting and appalling situation with the children, or your relationship with this man that all these wonderful, helpful, and genuinely concerned women havent already eloquently said.

All I can say as someone who is your age (actually just turned 25

) I can say "WTF are you doing with this man?". I know you cant help who you fall in love with, and even though you are dating a man 6 years older than my father which truly creeps me out, if he had many overwhelming great qualities I guess I can understand looking past the age. But he is old, doesnt treat you well, seems to be embarrassed of you and his relationship with you, wont marry you, had tons of baggage, and seems to be a completely selfish #$%*& I'm not seeing the appeal here hunnie. If he is this way with his own flesh and blood, I cant imagine the way he treats you. You are young and have so much time to find someone who is worthy of you. Dont settle for this man or situation, get out asap.

(unless of course you are a pathological liar and are saying all this for kicks)

 

[TooPatient]

Date: 10/30/2009 10:20:29 AM
Author: soocool
TP, I have read throroughly through all these posts this morning and I feel that as a mom in my 50''s I will speak to you as if you were my own daughter. I think you''ll find that there are better men out there for you. Yes, you probably do love this guy, but from what you have writtern here and in other threads. However, I don''t get the feeling that he truly loves you or cares for you in the way he should. I have a feeling the things you have posted in the various threads about your SO is because somewhere in the back of your mind you know things are not right. Trust your hunches!

You truly do deserve better. You have done everything for him and just rationalize his behavior. You should never have to make excuses for someone. You shouldn''t see things through his eyes. Open your eyes and think about your situation long and hard. Does all of this sound normal to you? You are too special a person to be treated like this. Do something for yourself and get out of the relationship and give yourself time to find yourself. You are still very young and have a lot of great living to do and not get caught up in someone else''s drama. People are saying these things here not to hurt you, but to help you.

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I have been doing much thinking. About where we are now and what I want in my life. (and I really do appreciate the honest and direct posts)

I''ve also been talking with him more about my concerns I''ve had.

He''s been great to encourage me to finish schooling and even pointed me towards a degree which will give me a better chance at getting a job I''ll like and the pay to match. I''ve been studying and doing practice work this last week to get prepared for the classes I''ve got coming up. He''s showed me easier ways to do the stuff and explained why things are used, how they work, etc.

I would like (and he is fully supportive) to be able to purchase a house in my name. We would live in one and rent the other.

His health has been improving. The infection seems to be dying off pretty quickly now. Aways to go, but getting there. Which means he''s got more energy. (yay) He still has his really sick days, but there are less than there had been even a few weeks ago. We''re going to a concert together in a couple of weeks and he even invited me to an event at his work.


To address those who see me as focused on money:
I work for stock brokers. My entire day is spent discussing money with people. How to save it. How to invest it. What is worth extra expense. What can be done more efficiently, etc.
I guess it has just become 2nd nature to me to think about and discuss the cost of stuff. What is worth it, what isn''t, what can and can''t be saved.
(yet another reason I dislike my job -- not a topic I ever cared to think about much and certainly wouldn''t discuss with people)


B and I spent a lot of time talking about A the last few days. He is not worried that her mother is hurting her. Since she gets her up just in time for school and doesn''t see her again until the next day when it is time to go to school. She has a nanny she likes and good friends (more like family) that she spends weekends & holidays with.
It is his belief (and mine and a child psychologist who has known A forever) that if we were to fight it in court, it would just cause A to have to go through a miserable & stressful situation that would do more emotional damage than it would help. According to her teachers & the friends, she is happy with her life and doing well in school. (the school psychologist was aware of our concerns of abuse and was documenting any issues -- we (mostly me) are in regular contact with her and she says the situation is much better)
Her mother has even started seeing a psychologist for herself.
B says that if he thought for one minute that she was spending time with her mother again and the same kind of things were happening, he would do anything necessary to get her out.



Again, I really do appreciate the honest comments you all have posted. I have read them all. Even those I haven''t replied to directly, I have read and thought about. I may not agree with everything you all have said, but I have read your thoughts and thank you for sharing them. I also understand how hard it is when only some details of a situation are shared.
There are so many details of my life with B and everything that happened with A that there is no way I can post them all. I have hundreds of pages of observations of her and her mother. Written by me, close friends who knew A''s family through school, friends (including a well respected child psychologist who is often used as an expert witness in court cases) who have known A her entire life, etc.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this thread and offer advice. There were a couple of suggestions I had never really thought of. I''ll certainly remember them if the time comes that we go back to court.

 

[iheartscience]

TP, your level of denial is truly breathtaking. This is a man who abandoned his TEN YEAR OLD CHILD and you've somehow managed to justify this to yourself. The situation is disgusting and the fact that you think it's okay is even more disgusting. You've made your apparently miserable bed with this man-have fun laying in it.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 11/1/2009 1:08:19 AM
Author: thing2of2
TP, your level of denial is truly breathtaking. This is a man who abandoned his TEN YEAR OLD CHILD and you''ve somehow managed to justify this to yourself. The situation is disgusting and the fact that you think it''s okay is even more disgusting. You''ve made your apparently miserable bed with this man-have fun laying in it.

Gosh I was hoping so much for a response that you''d seen the light. TP, I have to echo thingof 2, she says pretty much what I am thinking.

One quote, you said really bothered, me, he doesn''t worry about her Mom hurting her too much, she gets her up for school and drops her off..

What is too much? Is there a degree to which she can be hurt, that is acceptable???

I hurt for that little girl, and am praying someone who has some kind of heart takes her in and nutures her. She hasn''t had any kind of stability in her her short life. All she knows is chaos. That ruins a child, more than you know. I speak from experience.

We have all done our best to give you a way out, to tell you this child needs help.

If you walk away, make sure an angel is left behind to help this child.

I am thinking it will take an act of god to save this child as the people in her life, are in denial.


I keep coming back, I said I wouldn''t.

But I was that kid that was abused. I survived, and want to know this little girl will too.

I think of all the threads I have read on PS and am coming up on my PS 5 year anniversary soon, this one has really made me the most sad. I care so much when it comes to kids. They have no voice, and sadly many times no respect. Kills me, because it''s the kids that speak the truth. They are the epitome of innocence. They are all about honesty, and as the saying goes, out of the mouths of babes. They bring us to our knees.

You are responsible, you know the hell she lives with.

 

[hihowareyou]

I''m sorry but I would want nothing to do with a man who wants nothing to do with his 10 year old daughter.

It sounds like you do everything possible to take care of him, if his answer to his daughter is to abandon her when thing get tough what do you think will happen if you get sick, can''t work, need looking after, etc? He has already left two daughters and two (at least) women who had problems. That isn''t a very good track record.

From reading your posts there seems to be A LOT you could do as a couple in order to help this situation but both you and your boyfriend appear unwilling to make sacrifices. I''m an animal lover but why are you spending money on multiple pets and using a lack of money as an excuse not to look after a child? Why haven''t you put some/all up for adoption? Why haven''t you sold the airplanes already? Why are you spending money on luxuries like electronic equipment, appliances, etc? Why don''t you move in with your parents? Why haven''t you taken up a second job?

A parent should fight until their last breath for their daughter. This situation is truly heartbreaking.

 

[princesss]

Wow.

You''ve clearly made your choice, and despite what you say, it''s doubtful that it''s the choice that is in the best interest of the child. It is not better for a child to be with a mother that sees her once a day to wake her up than it is to go through a short, stressful period of change in order to spend each day with a loving parent.

I''m just...shocked. What is this little girl learning? Kids have an amazing way of thinking that every problem is their fault. I can''t imagine what must be running through her head when she thinks about life with a mother that doesn''t pay attention to her and a dad she never sees. It''s possibly the most depressing thing I''ve thought about in a long time.

 

[Hera]

I'm not a parent yet, but maybe it's in the best interest of the child to have no father in the picture than one like this man. It's obvious that they do not have the daughter's best interest first and foremost and are not going to take any steps to change that.

 

[Pandora II]

Sorry TP, but your story seems to keep changing so now I don''t know which part is true!

However, it sounds like you''re in one heck of a messed-up toxic relationship with some git with dodgy priorities! I hope you get yourself out of this relationship sooner rather than later. There are more red flags here than in the Internationale!

 

[cara]

So this girl's mother is abusive and manipulative, but its okay because she now spends minimal time with her daughter. Her father has no contact with her and NEVER WANTS TO SEE HER AGAIN EVER, but that is also OK because it would be too stressful for him to be involved in her life or go to court to renegotiate anything and there are nice substitutes-for-parents raising her, like a nanny and some friends. According to some psychologist, the daughter is absolutely doomed to be messed up forever unless her mother DIES soon and she goes into massive therapy. But no matter, she's actually happy and has friends, according to third-hand accounts that you somehow believe are a substitute for actually raising the girl or at least talking to her.

I shouldn't really have wasted my time typing this all out, TP, because its pretty clear that you are so deeply investing in this that you hear only what you want to hear, see only what you want to see, believe only what makes it okay for you to keep living the life you are living.

If nothing else, go to therapy for yourself and figure out why you are where you are. Because no one here has to walk in your shoes, only you, and one day you may not like where they have taken you.

 

[swimmer]

Too Patient,

That is wonderful that Bruce is now going to permit you to be seen together in public! That is a real step forward in your relationship. It is great that his fungus is clearing up, are you still infected? Hopefully you can now start to get treated for that nasty and painful skin condition as well. It is good that Bruce''s daughter only sees her mother for transportation reasons, a child in grade school should really should only expect about 10 mins or so of parental contact right? It is really a shame that none of it is positive. That is wonderful that Bruce''s daughter is being raised by friends. Nice that they can foot the bill too for all of her weekend activities. Mostly it is good that Bruce is being so helpful to you in getting you ready for school. Giving you academic advice, talking about your financial future, helping you with homework...this is really great! Finally he is acting like a father. To you.

 

[ljmorgan]

I just want to say that whatever your opinion on Too Patient''s posts here, she has been very polite. If you don''t agree with her you may certainly post that, that is why she is asking for advice, but some of the comments that I am reading are uncalled for and rude.

 

[House Cat]

No matter how stressful the court battle might be, B''s daughter would know that he FOUGHT for her and that he CARED enough to do so. Do you know how incredibly important that is for her psyche?

I guess the fact of the matter is, he doesn''t care enough to fight for her. If he did, he would be actively fighting for her. He wouldn''t need convincing and this thread wouldn''t exist.

Men abandon their children everyday. I''m sure each and every one of them have a "justified" reason (in their minds.)

 

[fieryred33143]

from reading your posts, it doesn''t really sound like you have a supporting unit of friends and family that can help guide you in the right direction. I hope that this is a case of inexperience and needing to "age" a bit to be able to understand where everyone is coming from. And if you do stay in this situation, I hope that B can change his ways and be the man that can provide a stable environment for you. Although people his age are almost always very set in their ways, I hope he is on of those select few that can prove everyone wrong.

I pray that Bs oldest daughter has married a real man that can show her what a healthy, loving relationship really is and she learns that before having children of her own so that she can break this unfortunate cycle she was thrown into.

And I also pray that Bs younger daughter has an awakening and realizes that this life she is in is not what she deserves and she does everything in her power to be successful and make a name for herself.

One of my greatest prides is being a mother to my beautiful little girl. Children are one of life''s greatest gifts and it saddens me when parents take that gift for granted or throw the relationship away as if it were garbage, especially when there are deserving people in this world that can''t have children of their own or who have lost their children. People like B and his ex-wives disgust me and those that support them don''t deserve respect to be frank.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 11/1/2009 7:42:16 AM
Author: swimmer
Too Patient,

That is wonderful that Bruce is now going to permit you to be seen together in public! That is a real step forward in your relationship. It is great that his fungus is clearing up, are you still infected? Hopefully you can now start to get treated for that nasty and painful skin condition as well. It is good that Bruce's daughter only sees her mother for transportation reasons, a child in grade school should really should only expect about 10 mins or so of parental contact right? It is really a shame that none of it is positive. That is wonderful that Bruce's daughter is being raised by friends. Nice that they can foot the bill too for all of her weekend activities. Mostly it is good that Bruce is being so helpful to you in getting you ready for school. Giving you academic advice, talking about your financial future, helping you with homework...this is really great! Finally he is acting like a father. To you.

This is the very crux of why you can't see the reality of this situation. You are the 'third daughter', the one he will 'do right' by. You speak like a little girl finally receiving some approval, being so excited by his acceptance, in your most recent post ("he even invited me to an event at his work").

You need to RUN away from this man!!!! He will treat you the same as he has his biological daughters, once you become too much 'work' for him. Of couse, if you get a good job, do what you are told, don't ask too much and make lots of money to help pay bills, he might decide to keep you around.

You need to get yourself some professional help ASAP!!! You will never be able to see that what he is doing is wrong, until you get yourself out of this very toxic relationship.

My heart goes out to all three of you girls. I hope some day you can look at this man and see him for who/what he is before it is too late.