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Please help! 1ct diamond

A

ac27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
10
Hi all

I am new to purchasing diamonds and even newer to this site. Having read a few threads this seems the perfect place to seek some advice on buying a GIA E/VS2 1ct for an engagement ring.

I have been given an option of 2 diamonds and I am so confused of which to go for if one of them at all.

Diamond 1: I have seen this first diamond and thought it was beautiful but reading up on flourescence (this is very strong blue) I am concerned that the diamond was cloudy. https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1303292268&s=1538394112308

Diamond 2: This diamond I have not seen yet and I am really concerned by the indented naturals as seen on the images as they look very big - I have no idea if this will really impact the diamond visually or in terms of durability. https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1293493320

I am also concerned that the proportions are not excellent for either diamond with both possibly being too deep.

Any advice would be massively appreciated as I don't really have any where else to turn.

Thanks
 
Both are too deep and have horrendous angle proportions.

Please do not buy either diamond. What is your budget? We can help you find something better.
 
Holy tamole! Those stats are very bad! Are you able to pick something else? Do you have a budget?
 
Just don’t buy either of them please. Where are you located? What is your budget? Are you open to shopping online?
 
Agree with the above posters! Please let us help you find something better!
 
Wow, resounding no on those two. Thanks for the advice. I’m based in the UK and my budget is around £5-5.5k/$6.5-$7k.

My issue is I’ve been spent a while working with a jeweller in Hatton Garden to get this ring (the one who has provided these options) and I’m going away in just over a week which is when I plan to propose. I’ve also given them a £100 deposit but I could lose this if there are better options available.

If I do stick with this jeweller what suggestions do I need to go to them with? Forgive my lack of knowledge, what is so bad on these proportions?
 
Also, I would be open to shopping online. Thanks
 
Wow, one week is a crazy deadline. Is the $7k USD budget for the stone only, or the setting and stone? If both, how much for stone only?

Looking for proportions in this range:
  • 54-57 table
  • 60-62.4 depth (prefer 62 or less)
  • 34-35 crown (maybe 35.5 if paired with 40.6 pavilion)
  • 40.6 to 40.9 pavilion (maybe 41 if paired with 34 crown)
  • 75-80 lower girdle facets
 
Yes, both of those stones are out of round and are way too deep, they are roughly the size of a .9ct stone!

WOAH, one week is a very short deadline. :???: I think a good bet would be to ask your jeweler to stick to the proportions @sledge provided above and see what he can come up with. I see that both are E colored stones, unless you're strapped to higher color due to cultural reasons, you would be safe dropping to a G colored stone, for most people it is still going to be VERY white. Another option would be to look at what blue nile has to offer so far as loose stones and then ask your jeweler to set it for you if you have a setting already picked out. I normally wouldn't suggest this but it would definitely decrease wait time to have a loose stone shipped to you vs a finished ring. Some of the BN stones will ship as early as 10/5.

Crown is slightly high but is paired with a complimentary pavillion. You could also see if your jeweler can procure this stone for you.
https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab
 
When I saw your two reports I was instantly reminded of a couple of other threads active now talking about how to get it to consumers that cut is more important than any of the other C's.

Since you have already rejected these diamonds, I believe I am within forum rules to make a short analysis. If not, I ask the moderator to kindly remove my post.

In diamond one, assuming that there is enough depth of pavilion to not need to make the girdle even smaller, there isn't, the estimated weight to cut the diamond for beauty rather than making 1 ct is approximately 0.91 carats. As a well cut diamond of 0.91 cts it will sell for significantly less than the poorly cut 1.02. To be cut to a super ideal standard, this diamond would weigh even less, putting it below the 0.90 ct weight class and even with the "premium" paid for super duper cutting would likely be less than the 0.91 ct well cut. (So, as my friend Paul Slegers likes to point out, the Super Ideals actually sell at a discount from the diamonds in the higher weight classes, while releasing all of the diamond's potential beauty.)

Diamond two is even more poorly cut than diamond one, and is going to be well below 0.90 carats as the girdle will have to be reduced to get enough room to produce the diamond with a decent pavilion angle. The current 40.2 degree pavilion angle will be heavily obstructed by the head of anyone taking a look at the diamond.

If you will continue to take advice from the prosumers here, you will end up with a diamond that is vastly superior to the diamonds you have been looking at with your local jeweler. They have been through what you are going through, and they know more than most of the retail jewelers when it comes to diamond cut quality for modern round brilliant cut diamonds.

Wink

P.S. The two threads I referred to above are both initiated by Paul Slegers and include a discussion with such notables as Garry Holloway, Serg, and Denver Appraiser.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-makes-a-diamond-valuable-the-4-cs-really.243729/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/color-scale-and-rarity-are-they-related.243883/
 
A few options:

1.09ct E VS2, $6,258 USD
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/818418281
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamonds/3236271

Same diamond. But available at two internet retailers. FourMine has the cheaper price. Seems logical maybe your local guy could procure as well. Delivery time may be an issue from either of these retailers.

Angles are much better. 34 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 56 table, 75 LGF & 61.4 depth.

Capture.PNG

1.09 G VS1, $6,293 USD
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/RI52895

The color variance between a D-G is very, very minor. All but the most color sensitive people will not be able to discern a difference. Here the G color gives you a clarity bump to VS1.

Also, the angles are just freakin' gorgeous....56 table, 62.0 depth, 34.5 table, 40.8 pavilion and 80 LGF. Even when I account for funky GIA averaging & rounding, this stays within ideal territory. :love: :love:

This is my personal favorite set of proportions (except I'd like 75 LGF as I prefer fatter arrows) so I'd jump on this if you are good with G color. There is still concern on shipment date. FourMine is promising a 10/12 delivery. Again, maybe your local jeweler could do better?

Capture2.PNG

1.05ct E SI1, $6,080 USD
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R105-367051538

Here you get the E color, but drop to SI1 clarity. Looking at the cert, this appears clean for an SI1 stone. Crystals are the grade setting inclusions and are on the sides of the stone. There is a small cloud on the table, but I don't think it will be problematic. There is a note that some pinpoints & surface graining isn't shown. I'd like to see a photo and/or video of the diamond and also to have them confirm it's eye clean, but I think you are probably safe with this stone.

Also, the angles. :kiss2: 56 table, 60.7 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion and 75 LGF.

Assuming the clarity checks out, I'd be on this one if you aren't okay with the G color above. Also, this one says it ships in 3-5 days so that might be more promising if you get overnight delivery.

Capture2.PNG
 
Here are a few super ideal diamonds. What sets these apart from the others is not only do they have excellent cut quality but they are also a true hearts & arrow (H&A) diamond meaning they also have excellent symmetry.

Whereas the other stones are part of a "virtual inventory" meaning they are cut and sourced by a supplier that makes the stone available to multiple retailers (possibly even your local jeweler), these stones are owned ONLY by the respective company. In this case, WhiteFlash (WF).

Purchasing stones from a super ideal vendor like WF is advantageous for a few reasons:
  • Guaranteed excellent cut
  • True H&A symmetry
  • All performance & symmetry images to confirm excellent (ASET, idealscope, H&A views, etc)
  • Actual photos & videos
  • Stones are located in-house, meaning if you buy today they can overnight to you tomorrow
  • Because stones are in-house and vetted, they can pull and compare and easily answer any questions or concerns you may have
  • They are known for excellent quality stones, competitive pricing and top notch customer service
  • One of the best upgrade programs around (spend $1 more in the future, and get full credit on your original stone)
  • They also have settings available and may be able to sell you the stone & setting together and actually meet your deadline (you will need to confirm with them)
It's like hitting the "easy button" on diamond buying. Given your tight deadline, I think this might really be your best option as I feel you need top notch customer service to help your realize your goal and WF can deliver.

That said, here are a few stones I found:

ACA 0.93ct E SI1, $6,594 USD
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3929359.htm

ACA 0.91ct E SI1, $6,452 USD
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3955161.htm
 
@ac27 In my experience UK jewellers always emphasise colour and clarity over cut so as mentioned unless you need E colour then consider going lower, G or H will be fine in a well cut stone. I have purchased from Whiteflash and shipped to Scotland with no issues, just don’t forget to price in the VAT. Maybe have a look at Blue Nile too, using the proportions listed above. Their prices include all taxes.
 
Amazing, thank you! Really appreciate all the helpful advice and suggestions. There is so much more to this all than I anticipated!!

Deadline wasn't supposed to be a week but work commitments and waiting around for recomendations from the jeweler has resulted in this very tight deadline. Bit of a nightmare!!

My thinking now is that I should compromise on the color to ensure an excellent cut and improvement on proportions although some of the above linked diamonds seem to avoid that. I am going to work through all the links in a bit more detail, they look amazing! I'm also expecting a couple of new diamonds on this end that I will share with you if you are interested in seeing them.

Cheers,
ac27
 
Ok, here are the two new GIA certs I have been sent. With my new found knowledge ;) I can tell the first is probably the worst of the lot and is a no: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6291259405

The second is a GIA excellent cut and the best out of the four I have linked but is still otside of the depth (62.9%) and crown angle parameters sledge mentioned although it is on the outside edge of ideal on the potential diamond cut chart. I appreciate that the smallest of margins can make a huge difference, so is this diamond also a 100% no?
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6251570325

Worth noting the second one is $500 more than the other 3.
 
The first one is only “Very Good” cut. Personally I’d pass on the second too, it is cut too deep and will face up smaller because of that. Did you know that second diamond is available on Blue Nile https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-details/LD09798712? If you are keen to use this vendor then why not give him the parameters suggested to see if he can come up with something better?
 
ac27 said:
Ok, here are the two new GIA certs I have been sent. With my new found knowledge ;-) I can tell the first is probably the worst of the lot and is a no: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6291259405
Click to expand...

This made me throw up in my mouth a little. Please do not buy!

FYI, for those reading along....this is why GIA "excellent" means crap to many of us. ;)2


Capture.PNG

ac27 said:
The second is a GIA excellent cut and the best out of the four I have linked but is still otside of the depth (62.9%) and crown angle parameters sledge mentioned although it is on the outside edge of ideal on the potential diamond cut chart. I appreciate that the smallest of margins can make a huge difference, so is this diamond also a 100% no?
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6251570325

Worth noting the second one is $500 more than the other 3.
Click to expand...

This one is a far cry better than the others you posted; however, it's still not something I would recommend for you.

Can your jeweler access any of stones I initially posted? The non-super ideals?

Where are you willing to go to on color? Also, what about the setting? What kind of setting are you using? If something unique, is the local jeweler the one setting the stone you buy? Will he be okay with you bringing in an external stone? Or do we need to be looking for a setting too? If so, what do you like?
 
Snowdrop13 said:
The first one is only “Very Good” cut. Personally I’d pass on the second too, it is cut too deep and will face up smaller because of that. Did you know that second diamond is available on Blue Nile https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-details/LD09798712? If you are keen to use this vendor then why not give him the parameters suggested to see if he can come up with something better?
Click to expand...
Thank you, I did tell them what I was looking for
 
sledge said:
This made me throw up in my mouth a little. Please do not buy!

FYI, for those reading along....this is why GIA "excellent" means crap to many of us. ;)2


Capture.PNG


This one is a far cry better than the others you posted; however, it's still not something I would recommend for you.

Can your jeweler access any of stones I initially posted? The non-super ideals?

Where are you willing to go to on color? Also, what about the setting? What kind of setting are you using? If something unique, is the local jeweler the one setting the stone you buy? Will he be okay with you bringing in an external stone? Or do we need to be looking for a setting too? If so, what do you like?
Click to expand...

Lol at your first comment!

I hadn't asked about access to specific stones but can do. Setting I'm looking for is a 4 claw knife edge solitaire in platinum/white gold so fairly standard I believe. Willing to move on color to gain the best diamond as I'm not tied to a color. E was based on the advice I got before coming on here to go for the best color possible (feels like poor advice now.) Local jeweler will not be interested in external stone. My gf had mentioned the 'magic' 1ct to me previously so preferably aiming for that weight! I notice the WF diamonds are AGS as opposed to GIA, do you recommend them over GIA?

Thanks
 
Both GIA and AGS are both well respected and trusted. GIA has more popularity around the globe.

AGS is preferred by most here as they take a 3D scan of each diamond they grade and utilize that scan to more accurately report angles and percentages. Additionally this 3D scan allows them to create a computer generated ASET that confirms light performance and also allows them to accurately and objectively assign a true cut grade to a diamond.

GIA lacks this technology and uses traditional 2D measures and does some rounding and averaging of the data many consider irregular.

Additionally GIA is rather relaxed in their grading of excellent. As we saw earlier on the stone where my comment made you laugh, it was rated by GIA as excellent but would maybe be a very good (VG) to good (G) cut if graded by AGS according to AGS proportion charts.

As such finding an AGS certified stone is more special especially when it has an ideal 0 cut grade, which is the best you can get.

So yes, AGS is every bit as good as GIA and IMO better for the reasons stated.
 
Helpful to know as AGS wasn’t mentioned once to me when going around jewellers in Hatton Garden. GIA was described to me as the most reliable and a GIA certificate an absolute must for any diamond purchase. I was also told that a GIA certified diamond would see an uplift in price due to the superior reliability of the certificate.
 
ac27 said:
Helpful to know as AGS wasn’t mentioned once to me when going around jewellers in Hatton Garden. GIA was described to me as the most reliable and a GIA certificate an absolute must for any diamond purchase. I was also told that a GIA certified diamond would see an uplift in price due to the superior reliability of the certificate.
Click to expand...

The bold is definitely not true. But it is true that GIA is more well-known than AGS by some people, so less well-informed people might not know that AGS exists or is considered extremely reliable.
 
He lied if he guaranteed an increase in price because of GIA.
 
He might have simply been guaranteeing that he is charging an uplift in price because of GIA report. :whistle:
 
Yes, GIA is more popular than AGS; however, both labs are well respected, credible and reliable. And I already pointed out how AGS is actually superior to GIA. Now in comparison to labs like IGI or EGL, I would agree that a GIA stone may trade for a higher value because those labs have a reputation for being unreliable and untrustworthy in their reporting.

I am not sure if you realize it or not, but super ideal diamonds are the best cut diamonds in the world and have a very small market share of the overall diamond market place. Guess what lab they utilize? AGS because the lab is more critical and accurately assigns cut grades.

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/the-super-ideal-diamond-1376.htm

Your jeweler is playing a dangerous game of guarantees. Maybe you could ask him to put that in writing for you, and honor it if others won't.

Better yet, maybe we should worry more about what is being guaranteed rather than the guarantee itself. I think this pretty well sums it up. :cool2:

 
Yes, again, in the U.K. market certified diamonds have not been widely available until relatively recently. Those that were were often had HRD certs as it is the most local lab.

If you are interested in seeing superideals (akin to the ACA range at Whiteflash) in person, Crafted by Infinity have a location in the UK, in London, (these will attract a significant premium in price, though, due to the amazing cutting),

https://www.diamondhousejewellery.com/
 
Snowdrop13 said:
Yes, again, in the U.K. market certified diamonds have not been widely available until relatively recently. Those that were were often had HRD certs as it is the most local lab.

If you are interested in seeing superideals (akin to the ACA range at Whiteflash) in person, Crafted by Infinity have a location in the UK, in London, (these will attract a significant premium in price, though, due to the amazing cutting),

https://www.diamondhousejewellery.com/
Click to expand...

The other day when I looked for stones I had searched HPD but saw no stones in your price range. This popped up today:

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10364

In case you aren't aware, Crafted By Infinity (CBI) sources their rough and does their own specialized cutting. They have a very strong reputation for producing quality super ideal cut stones.

CBI then teams up with select jewelers in what I would call a "dealer network". HP Diamonds (HPD) is one of the well known USA jewelers frequently recommended here that is a "CBI dealer".

While the stone I linked above is on the HPD website, it is likely you can arrange to purchase locally in London.

Speaking of which, where are you in this process? Time is running out.

As far as the premium associated with super ideal stones, yes you pay more but I also believe you get a little more. Superior cutting, true H&A symmetry, all performance and symmetry images, best upgrade and buyback policies and superior customer service.

In smaller stones I think the premium is less noticeable. You can find nice GIA stones in the virtual inventory but the process takes longer and can be frustrating. With your time table I really think a super ideal from WF or HPD/CBI is the way to go here.

Let us know your thoughts and how we can further help.
 
Any updates? Tick tock....
 
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