Please give me your thoughts...

[cygnet]

p.s. please don't eat me alive, either

Last I checked cygnet, I was the only one asking some pointed questions. The large majority of posters here seemed to want to eat the vendor alive. Freke can take the heat - she's a big girl.

Freke, by offline, I meant that PSers usually tell customers to try not to out vendors ahead of a resolution and try to take it offline with the vendor to resolve. I obviously don't know cygnet's story, and she's stated here she has done what she can.

I was trying to be lighthearted-- I should have added a smiley

You are doing the right thing by asking those questions, TGal. I know you are just trying to make sure that no one is dragged through the mud unfairly.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

{{{{{hugs}}}}}, so sorry, sweetie.

 

[Circe]

Uh ... TGal, I love you, and I hate to disappoint, but that is a weird conclusion to come to. And I say this as someone who, a) is in the middle of vendor wackiness, who, b) didn't want to out the vendor, and, who, c) was actually really appreciative of poster reticence. Nobody ever asked me to out my vendor ... but whenever I came to update, I was also talking about how my vendor was trying to make things right. Screwing that up with remarkable consistency and surprising regularity, true, but at least making an effort. We really didn't see much of that, here. I NEVER call for vendor names, but I've never heard of anything like this, either. It's just ... off.

Cygnet, I can see why you're upset, I can understand hating to be the center of attention, and I'm sorry you're in this position. I totally understand the anxiety. I have spent a few too many emotional moments over a tiny bit of carbon recently, and it sucks.

David has a pretty good rep on the boards* - he's occasionally a little too aggressive for people's tastes, but he's never committed outright fraud, to the best of my knowledge. I will cross my fingers that this is a huge misunderstanding of some sort, that he will now rush to rectify, having gotten the gist of how much stress this is causing you.

In the meantime, could you maybe post the pictures he sent you, so we can see what kind of wonk it is we're talking about?

*For full disclosure, I'll say that I've met him and thought him charming, with good wares. Still think this particular scenario sounds massively funky, though.

ETA: WOW, lots of cross-posting while I wrote that. Glad that bit has been resolved, carry on!

 

[TravelingGal]

Okay. I guess the secret's out, then.

Perhaps if you wanted to keep it a secret, you should not have asked Freke to post. I haven't been around in RT much at all recently and I ONLY read this post because Freke posted it - I like to keep up with "friends" on PS and their projects.

Gypsy, are you saying you didn't know it was DBL?

 

[TravelingGal]

Uh ... TGal, I love you, and I hate to disappoint, but that is a weird conclusion to come to. And I say this as someone who, a) is in the middle of vendor wackiness, who, b) didn't want to out the vendor, and, who, c) was actually really appreciative of poster reticence. Nobody ever asked me to out my vendor ... but whenever I came to update, I was also talking about how my vendor was trying to make things right. Screwing that up with remarkable consistency and surprising regularity, true, but at least making an effort. We really didn't see much of that, here. I NEVER call for vendor names, but I've never heard of anything like this, either. It's just ... off.

Cygnet, I can see why you're upset, I can understand hating to be the center of attention, and I'm sorry you're in this position. I totally understand the anxiety. I have spent a few too many emotional moments over a tiny bit of carbon recently, and it sucks.

David has a pretty good rep on the boards* - he's occasionally a little too aggressive for people's tastes, but he's never committed outright fraud, to the best of my knowledge. I will cross my fingers that this is a huge misunderstanding of some sort, that he will now rush to rectify, having gotten the gist of how much stress this is causing you.

In the meantime, could you maybe post the pictures he sent you, so we can see what kind of wonk it is we're talking about?

*For full disclosure, I'll say that I've met him and thought him charming, with good wares. Still think this particular scenario sounds massively funky, though.

ETA: WOW, lots of cross-posting while I wrote that. Glad that bit has been resolved, carry on!

Hey Circe, I read your thread (total bummer, btw...I haven't read any updates since yesterday though, I'd better go check). And yes, this entire THREAD just seemed off to me. PSers tend to be very loyal to known PS posters...this was just a story told about a "friend" and people were just really on fire. It was just weird to me, is all.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, let me say that I have observed enough on here prior to this to not be able to recommend him. Someone posted very recently (a prior customer) that he would contact her (several times) when he'd see a thread here about someone deciding on a vendor for a custom ring and ask her to recommend him! He absolutely ruined a thread that Charmy made on how to do a halo setting because he was jealous that other vendors had more recommendations than he did. They had to take down the thread and she later reposted. There were numerous other times that he crossed lines here. So in a lot of ways, this does not surprise me at all. But I feel extremely sorry for cgynet, because unless someone is on RT an awful lot, they wouldn't necessarily see the concerns.

 

[Circe]

Hey Circe, I read your thread (total bummer, btw...I haven't read any updates since yesterday though, I'd better go check). And yes, this entire THREAD just seemed off to me. PSers tend to be very loyal to known PS posters...this was just a story told about a "friend" and people were just really on fire. It was just weird to me, is all.

Thanks, hon. Am waiting until midday tomorrow until I write to say "SO WHAT ABOUT THE PROGRESS, HAS THERE BEEN ANY?" And I haven't been sitting on my hands to keep from sending it today. Nope, not at all.

In a weird way, I think both of the extreme positions are coming from the same place, vis-a-vis the desire to out the vendor and the thinking that desire is strange ... this is hugely out of character for a PS vendor. So either something went wrong, or there has been a huge miscommunication along the way. Though 3 page+ threads usually bring the drama, we can hope this one will result in the vendor smacking his forehead and saying, "THAT IS NOT WHAT I WAS HEARING" before offering an alternate solution.

 

[TravelingGal]

Hey Circe, I read your thread (total bummer, btw...I haven't read any updates since yesterday though, I'd better go check). And yes, this entire THREAD just seemed off to me. PSers tend to be very loyal to known PS posters...this was just a story told about a "friend" and people were just really on fire. It was just weird to me, is all.

Thanks, hon. Am waiting until midday tomorrow until I write to say "SO WHAT ABOUT THE PROGRESS, HAS THERE BEEN ANY?" And I haven't been sitting on my hands to keep from sending it today. Nope, not at all.

In a weird way, I think both of the extreme positions are coming from the same place, vis-a-vis the desire to out the vendor and the thinking that desire is strange ... this is hugely out of character for a PS vendor. So either something went wrong, or there has been a huge miscommunication along the way. Though 3 page+ threads usually bring the drama, we can hope this one will result in the vendor smacking his forehead and saying, "THAT IS NOT WHAT I WAS HEARING" before offering an alternate solution.

Ditto Circe...and I told ya that I do try to keep up with my "friend's" projects, so I look forward to your update. Hope that it's a good resolution for you.

 

[cygnet]

Uh ... TGal, I love you, and I hate to disappoint, but that is a weird conclusion to come to. And I say this as someone who, a) is in the middle of vendor wackiness, who, b) didn't want to out the vendor, and, who, c) was actually really appreciative of poster reticence. Nobody ever asked me to out my vendor ... but whenever I came to update, I was also talking about how my vendor was trying to make things right. Screwing that up with remarkable consistency and surprising regularity, true, but at least making an effort. We really didn't see much of that, here. I NEVER call for vendor names, but I've never heard of anything like this, either. It's just ... off.

Cygnet, I can see why you're upset, I can understand hating to be the center of attention, and I'm sorry you're in this position. I totally understand the anxiety. I have spent a few too many emotional moments over a tiny bit of carbon recently, and it sucks.

David has a pretty good rep on the boards* - he's occasionally a little too aggressive for people's tastes, but he's never committed outright fraud, to the best of my knowledge. I will cross my fingers that this is a huge misunderstanding of some sort, that he will now rush to rectify, having gotten the gist of how much stress this is causing you.

In the meantime, could you maybe post the pictures he sent you, so we can see what kind of wonk it is we're talking about?

*For full disclosure, I'll say that I've met him and thought him charming, with good wares. Still think this particular scenario sounds massively funky, though.

ETA: WOW, lots of cross-posting while I wrote that. Glad that bit has been resolved, carry on!

Yeah-- I know he isn't everyone's favorite personality, but I thought that everyone who had worked with him at least had been happy with the quality of the product they had received. Since I had spoken with him before and didn't have a problem with him, I thought that if that was really the only complaint I had heard about him, he'd be a pretty safe choice for a vendor. This is my first jewelry project (it is my engagement ring), and I DID do my research--- but I still ended up losing in the end. I tried so hard to resolve this with him through email. I know some people dislike him and would enjoy reading a thread bashing his business, but I am not a vindictive person and I just wanted the problem solved. His refusal to take my concerns about the stone seriously and his decision to ship it to me when I specifically said NOT to are what finally broke my resolve not to post on PS about this.

I just want my stuff back.

 

[Circe]

Tgal, your lips = god's ear.

For me and Cygnet both, frankly!

 

[Circe]

Yeah-- I know he isn't everyone's favorite personality, but I thought that everyone who had worked with him at least had been happy with the quality of the product they had received. Since I had spoken with him before and didn't have a problem with him, I thought that if that was really the only complaint I had heard about him, he'd be a pretty safe choice for a vendor. This is my first jewelry project (it is my engagement ring), and I DID do my research--- but I still ended up losing in the end. I tried so hard to resolve this with him through email. I know some people dislike him and would enjoy reading a thread bashing his business, but I am not a vindictive person and I just wanted the problem solved. His refusal to take my concerns about the stone seriously and his decision to ship it to me when I specifically said NOT to are what finally broke my resolve not to post on PS about this.

I just want my stuff back.

Yep, I can see that - as well as the exacerbated concern with an asscher, given the corners. (Assuming your profile pic is the stone in question.) In the close-ups, did the stone itself look okay? Generally, unless there is deliberate cover-up work involved, damage done in bezel-setting will be visible. Most of the time it happens as you're pushing the bezel down, not as you're fitting it. It's not a 100% guarantee, but am hoping it might prove reassuring ....

 

[cygnet]

I will post photos if you'd like. David has already told me he doesn't see any damage on the stone, but that isn't enough of a guarantee to really keep me safe from being stuck with a trashed stone if he's lying. Something could have happened along the girdle and it may be covered up now by the bezel. I would have been fine with taking the ring and sending him back the setting and then getting the refund, but he told me I HAVE to get a third party to unset it-- and if damage is discovered, he will just blame it on the unsetting process and then I'm S.O.L.

 

[Circe]

I'll admit I'm morbidly curious, but only if you're comfortable with it ... as you say, all the reassurances in the world from the vendor or random bystanders won't remove the concern now, not until you see the stone sans setting.

I think that unless David sees this and re-evaluates his position, Dreamer's suggestion is probably the best one. I can see DS's point about the ethics, but ... that's why we all pay our premiums nicely, and that fear could be there for ANYBODY insuring an already set stone. I would bet the companies factor it in.

 

[JulieN]

I have doubts about damage. If there was damage, in the worst case they would have to file an insurance claim, which sounds to me like a much better deal than dealing with this debacle. Not saying it is impossible, but it's just an unlikely scenario to me.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Since Diamonds by Lauren has now been named, perhaps we will soon have an explanation from David.

 

[cygnet]

I just read Dreamer's post. That is an interesting suggestion and I will consider it.

I understand that the likelihood of damage is slim, but I cannot understand his behavior over this whole matter unless something happened and he's trying to cover it up.

Then again, as Julie said-- filing a claim does seem to be the simpler solution.

 

[GemFever]

Cygnet, I'm so sorry you're going through this! **hugs** It's tough.

I'd also cast my vote that the stone is fine. I'm guessing the vendor just got frustrated, threw a fit, and sent it. It's probably fine. I'd go to a good jeweler and have the stone taken out (I recently had an OEC taken out of a bezel setting, it cost me $30 and took 10 minutes). Having the stone in your hands will give you peace of mind sooner than refusing shipment, waiting for it to be taken out, waiting for it to be shipped again.

Of course, that's if the stone isn't damaged. But if probably is fine. Good luck! Fingers crossed for you!

 

[cygnet]

Thank you GemFever. I hope you are right!

This whole thing has got me so worked up that I'm about ready to take a break from even thinking about my engagement ring, and just putting the stone in a drawer for the next few months and not thinking about it.... but we have been wanting to get engaged for quite a long time and prolonging it further would be a shame.

But man am I burnt out.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hopefully he is just trying to get you to take possession of the ring hoping you will just decide to keep it. That is manipulation that I don't approve of, but that may be his motive.

Please don't let this delay your engagement any longer! You deserve some happiness after all this mess!

 

[cygnet]

How do I go about getting it insured ASAP and then getting it unset and shipped it back within 7 days?

I'm a noob. And I'm tired. Please help.

 

[cygnet]

Hopefully he is just trying to get you to take possession of the ring hoping you will just decide to keep it. That is manipulation that I don't approve of, but that may be his motive.

Please don't let this delay your engagement any longer! You deserve some happiness after all this mess!

Thank you DS <3

 

[risingsun]

I haven't posted in awhile, but had to respond to this thread. I think it is unethical for David to behave the way he has with you. His refusal to unset the diamond and promptly send you a refund is unprofessional. If I were you, I would inspect the ring, have the diamond removed and send the ring back to DBL. I don't like the thought of your diamond being held "hostage" by DBL. It's not right that you should have to do this, but it puts an end to it. I don't trust DBL and, if you follow his demands, he has no reason to withhold the refund.
I hope this can be resolved very soon. Start having a great engagement

 

[TravelingGal]

Here's my two cents on the bezel and why he may want a 3rd party to unset it. I actually think it's because the stone is NOT damaged vs damaged. And here's why.

Now that I know it's DBL, I can share my own experience with getting the diamonds out of a brooch where they were bezel set. There were several contenders for the setting, DBL being one of them.

The thing was, part of the equation is that I wanted the stones OUT of the brooch undamaged. AND I wanted the brooch in pristine condition. Ari at Singlestone was going to sell the brooch sans main diamonds for me. If the brooch was too damaged, it'd just be scrap. So as I put this project into action, the brooch was a key component.

David at DBL only ever saw pictures of the brooch, so take this with a grain of salt. His two cents to me was that his bench could get the diamond out unscathed, but the bezels would be mangled or vice versa. Obviously I didn't like either idea.

Ultimately the bench that serves 23rd street jeweler was able to get it done, and they did an AMAZING job. Seriously, I wish I took a pic of the brooch with the stones unseated. It was in pristine condition, and Ari was able to sell the brooch for me (he obviously thought the bench did a fine job as well.)

So maybe DBL wants someone to do the work so HE won't be liable for the damage that may occur in the unsetting. Totally wild hypothesis here, I know. And that doesn't make it right, either.

But I agree with the others...I don't think your stone is damaged. I don't think he's hiding anything.

 

[Gypsy]

Last post on this thread for real, and ONLY because I don't want speculation about what was known by whom and when (irrelevant) to ruin the point of this thread. So if you respond, I will not respond back. Just FYI.

It doesn't matter if 100 people knew about it off the boards. That just adds to the credibility of Cygnet, for me. She clearly tried to resolve this with the vendor off the boards just as we advise, clearly failed, and is now being pushed into corner and asked to do two things she did not want to do 1) accept shipment for a ring she already knows doesn't meet what she asked for and 2) have it unset by a 3rd party.

So what if she didn't feel safe posting about it to ask advice as she is new to PS and asked Freke who has been on the boards longer to do so for her without posting the name because again she wanted advice not a lynching. Others commented with their honest advice and thoughts. Who cares whether those thoughts were formed on PS or up a tree in the African Sahara, and when?

That just distracts people from the point: do you think what the vendor is doing is right, fair and normal.

For me, it doesn't matter WHO the vendor is, I don't think this treatment is okay. And I think its the vendor's responsibility to send her a refund and a loose undamaged stone.

 

[TravelingGal]

Last post on this thread for real, and ONLY because I don't want speculation about what was known by whom and when (irrelevant) to ruin the point of this thread.

It doesn't matter if 100 people knew about it off the boards. That just adds to the credibility of Cygnet, for me. She CLEARLY tried to resolve this with the vendor off the boards just as we advise, clearly failed, and is now being pushed into corner and asked to do two things she did not want to do 1) accept shipment for a ring she already knows doesn't meet what she asked for and 2) have it unset by a 3rd party.

So what if she didn't feel safe posting about it to ask advice as she is new to PS and asked Freke who has been on the boards longer to do so for her without posting the name because AGAIN she wanted advice not a lynching. Others commented with their HONEST advice and thoughts. Who cares whether those thoughts were formed on PS or up a tree in the African Sahara, and when?

That's just silliness, and it makes a mockery of "consumer advocacy" by turning around and accusing those trying to help her of wrong doing and distracting people from the point: do you think what the vendor is doing is right, fair and normal.

For me, it doesn't matter WHO the vendor is, I don't think this treatment is okay. And I think its the vendor's responsibility to send her a refund and a loose undamaged stone.

Hey Gypsy, I'm not doubting the credibility of Cygnet. I'm doubting the credibility of anyone who posted on this thread knowing who the vendor was, asked leading questions, and presented the case as innocent when the person had motivation in mind.

I don't think it makes a "mockery" of anything Gypsy. I think a consumer forum works best when there's honestly and intentions are lucid. I like to trust posters. I like to think they are on the up and up, and I can take their words at FACE VALUE.

Why not just say, "I know who the vendor is, I know some background details, and this is what I think."

Yes, I think it matters if 100 people knew it off the boards, because you all could have well bloody given her advice OFFLINE instead of creating drama here and backing the woman against the wall to out the vendor, when CLEARLY that is NOT what she wanted.

 

[cygnet]

I would prefer it if no one argues in this thread, please. I can only handle so much. Cygnet is tired.

Please?

 

[Gypsy]

I lied, I'm responding.
T-gal. You think Freke posted this and backed Cygnet into a wall? That's not what Cygnet said. She said she ASKED Freke to post.

SHE DID.

Which Freke did.

What conspiracy theories are you subscribing to and why? No one backed anyone into anything. Except the people who asked her to reveal the vendor. Which you will see, I didn't do. I said reveal the vendor when you have the package.

So why are you after me? you said DEBBY is the reason why you thought something was off. What did I do to earn your ire?

And what good does it do to complain about things off the boards? I've never gotten people who complain about vendors off the boards. What is the point of that? ON the boards is where it matters, because that's where we check the vendors and that's where we have the power to get them to what is right.

ETA: Respecting Cygnet and backing out. YOU T-gal can reach ME off the boards if you think I did something wrong.

 

[Circe]

Uh ... okay, now I feel out of the loop. Is this a fer sure thing, or are we still speculating that maybe sorta kinda it looks like people may have been aware? Because as part of the baying mob, I'm telling you, there was noooooooooooo clue. It just looked sketchy from the facts presented, is all.

ETA: Cygnet, respecting your wishes from here on out. I will say, though, I don't think anybody is blaming you for a danged thing - it's just, you know, Tuesday on the internet.

 

[ruby59]

Is the stone damaged or is it not damaged. Sorry, but you were pretty sure it was until Dreamer gave you an out.

I would send the ring to an expert to try to determine that before trying to insure and then unset it. You guys are all over David, but none of you think this is fraud?

 

[cygnet]

For those who wanted to see, here are the photos.

Here is what I wanted (in WG):


Here is what I got:




The more obvious issues are outlined here:

Asymmetrical outline


Asymmetrical lines

Plus the bezel is huge, huge, HUGE, and it looks like a triple bezel.