Please give me your thoughts...

[diamondseeker2006]

I was also skeptical until I got the impression that Freke had also seen pictures of the setting and agreed that it was poor workmanship and totally unacceptable. And in that case, the only other side to the story needs to be the vendor apologizing, removing her diamond and returning it, and promptly refunding her money.

 

[TravelingGal]

The vendor forced her to pay by check, and he said that he insured the stone while it was being set.

You guys are all bringing up very good points and confirming my suspicions that this was all very abnormal behavior on his part.

I think "integrity" needs to be the word of the day.

I don't know what else to say at this point.

She is aware of the thread, but she isn't ready to "out" the vendor for various reasons.

ETA: Gypsy, the ring should be there tomorrow.

He forced her to pay by check???!!!! This gets worse by the minute. That would have been a red flag right there.

If she is reading this thread, I want to say that I think it is a grave mistake to receive the ring and do anything with it. It needs to go back where they can remove their faulty setting and return her diamond to her. I can't think of a reason not to out the vendor at this point. It can only go uphill from here because I think they'll be forced to do the right thing. I am worried that they are twisting her arm or something to keep her from naming them.

I guess I could understand someone paying by check, if they were working very closely to a budget, and trying to avoid transaction fees...I would really like to know who this vendor is

Freke...did you have any say/tips in this before she picked the vendor?

No. I wish I had.

Is this a IRL personal friend, or a PSer? It's strange that a IRL personal friend wouldn't have asked you for your opinion, if they weren't jewelry buffs.

 

[TravelingGal]

I was also skeptical until I got the impression that Freke had also seen pictures of the setting and agreed that it was poor workmanship and totally unacceptable. And in that case, the only other side to the story needs to be the vendor apologizing, removing her diamond and returning it, and promptly refunding her money.

Huh? How can Freke or anyone really determine workmanship from photos? Are they macros? Are we talking quality of work here, or aesthetics?

Hello people, no one has SEEN the ring, right?

 

[missydebby]

This might sound weird... but I can't wait to never give this vendor my business

Except there are two sides to every story, and we're not even hearing one side directly from the horse's mouth...

True dat. I am curious as to what the other side is

And I've been around PS long enough to smell when something isn't quite right....

And something isn't quite right here. Every one is too keen to take this vendor to the stake....

We need Sherlock Holmes and Denzel Washington on the case!

At any rate, as the story stands coming indirectly, its sounds amazingly brutal for the customer and slimy from the vendor. Now here's the thing... let's just go from vendor says there is a money back guarantee BUT that the customer has to get the ring, unset it herself. If that one fact is true, then my thought is: LAME. And I can't wrap my head around that being anything but weird and suspect.

So yes - I totally hope that the customer gets everything handled. Beyond that, I am so curious as to when the vendor is revealed, if said vendor will agree with the facts of the case as presented, and if so, what the hell kind of reasoning is behind the whole unsetting, you know?

 

[FrekeChild]

OK, wait wait wait. I'm confused here. Do we have pics of the ring? The friend has NOT seen the ring yet, correct?

Don't we always say around here to look at the darned thing and save judgment for real life viewing?

No. He wanted to send it to her without ANY pictures. She insisted on magnified pictures first. He says it looks worse in the pictures than in real life. He took "handshots" to show her what it looks like in real life. She hated it.

Even with the magnification taken out of the big picture, she is unhappy. It seriously reminds me of a flying saucer, and is FAR from delicate.

Yes, typically RTers and CSers do, but in this case, I don't think it's a good call. She's told him she's unhappy with the finished product, she told him that she doesn't want it redone by his bench, and he's refusing to cooperate with any of her requests.

I am having to leave out other specific details because I do not want to out the vendor at this point, it's not my place.

 

[FrekeChild]

The vendor forced her to pay by check, and he said that he insured the stone while it was being set.

You guys are all bringing up very good points and confirming my suspicions that this was all very abnormal behavior on his part.

I think "integrity" needs to be the word of the day.

I don't know what else to say at this point.

She is aware of the thread, but she isn't ready to "out" the vendor for various reasons.

ETA: Gypsy, the ring should be there tomorrow.

He forced her to pay by check???!!!! This gets worse by the minute. That would have been a red flag right there.

If she is reading this thread, I want to say that I think it is a grave mistake to receive the ring and do anything with it. It needs to go back where they can remove their faulty setting and return her diamond to her. I can't think of a reason not to out the vendor at this point. It can only go uphill from here because I think they'll be forced to do the right thing. I am worried that they are twisting her arm or something to keep her from naming them.

I guess I could understand someone paying by check, if they were working very closely to a budget, and trying to avoid transaction fees...I would really like to know who this vendor is

Freke...did you have any say/tips in this before she picked the vendor?

No. I wish I had.

Is this a IRL personal friend, or a PSer? It's strange that a IRL personal friend wouldn't have asked you for your opinion, if they weren't jewelry buffs.

No. She is an internet friend. This is her first item of jewelry.

(And I keep my jewelry interests pretty well hidden, so no one in real life would know to ask anyway...)

 

[FrekeChild]

I was also skeptical until I got the impression that Freke had also seen pictures of the setting and agreed that it was poor workmanship and totally unacceptable. And in that case, the only other side to the story needs to be the vendor apologizing, removing her diamond and returning it, and promptly refunding her money.

Thanks for the vote of confidence DS!

 

[FrekeChild]

I was also skeptical until I got the impression that Freke had also seen pictures of the setting and agreed that it was poor workmanship and totally unacceptable. And in that case, the only other side to the story needs to be the vendor apologizing, removing her diamond and returning it, and promptly refunding her money.

Huh? How can Freke or anyone really determine workmanship from photos? Are they macros? Are we talking quality of work here, or aesthetics?

Hello people, no one has SEEN the ring, right?

Yes, they are macros. I have seen a fair share of macro photos of bezels, and I'm talking shoddy aesthetics and terrible finishing. The finishing probably is less apparent in real life, but the lines of the ring do not line up right. If I took to photoshop with the photo and with the line tool, it would NOT look like a checkerboard with perfect squares or rectangular shapes, as it should.

No, only the bench and the owner have seen the ring, BUT the owner said that he saw issues with it too. Then he redacted that statement and said it was beautiful when she started to talk refunds.

 

[TravelingGal]

OK, wait wait wait. I'm confused here. Do we have pics of the ring? The friend has NOT seen the ring yet, correct?

Don't we always say around here to look at the darned thing and save judgment for real life viewing?

No. He wanted to send it to her without ANY pictures. She insisted on magnified pictures first. He says it looks worse in the pictures than in real life. He took "handshots" to show her what it looks like in real life. She hated it.

Even with the magnification taken out of the big picture, she is unhappy. It seriously reminds me of a flying saucer, and is FAR from delicate.

Yes, typically RTers and CSers do, but in this case, I don't think it's a good call. She's told him she's unhappy with the finished product, she told him that she doesn't want it redone by his bench, and he's refusing to cooperate with any of her requests.

I am having to leave out other specific details because I do not want to out the vendor at this point, it's not my place.

OK, she's an Internet friend. So not a IRL friend. Is she a PSer? Why even post her case here, cause a stir when she doesn't want to out him? I'm confused.

So you don't think it's a good call to take the ring and post her story here? It is up to you to make this decision? I'm really confused Freke...this doesn't make sense to me. I mean, it damn well might be awful, but she should SEE the ring first.

As for the unsetting thing, I admit, that's weird. But none of this is QUITE making sense to me. Some smells off.

 

[FrekeChild]

If a round 1 carat diamond had a bezel that was approximately 3mm on each side, and the person wanted 1-2mm on each side, wouldn't that be considered a problem? 12.5mm is a LOT different from 8.5-10.5mm.

 

[Gypsy]

Are we being too blood thirsty, T-gal?

I think that with regard to Freke’s first two questions (1. Vendor forcing possession and 2. Having a 3rd party unset the stone)—both of those are unusual to say the least.

There are a number of vendors I really like to work with and have had great experiences with. Steven , BGD, Pearlmans, IDJ but if ANY of them made a refund of something that I knew did not match what I contracted for contingent on my taking possession AND having a stone unset out of a bezel by a third party I would NOT be okay with that.

Can you think of a circumstance that would make those two requirements ‘okay’? The only one I can think of is if the stone had issues and the vendor did not FROM THE START want to set it, or have it set in a certain way. So… if it was an OEC with no girdle and the person wanted it in a tension setting and the vendor did it against their better judgment, and then was blamed for something that followed, could I see a vendor forcing a customer to take possession and try to wash their hands of it all.

That’s pretty much it. And granted I should have asked certain questions before jumping in with both feet.

But let’s see what Freke can tell us.

Freke, what was the setting style (is it a halo bezel, or some other bezel)? Is there pave? When you say problems with the metal work what are you referring to?

Does the stone have any girdle or clarity issues (I clarity or a feather somewhere) that the vendor advised your friend of? What shape is it (specifically does it have a point—marquise, princess, pear are the ones that come to mind with points that can make setting risky).

What exactly is the reason for forcing her to take possession? Do you have it in an email and can you share that text (I can’t imagine we’d be able to guess who the vendor was from a few excerpts) and for refusing to unset it, IN THE VENODRS OWN WORDS, if you can ask your friend for the emails or parts of them.

I think that would help.

 

[Dreamer_D]

If it was me, I would do the simplest thing to move on, and avoid drama.

I would accept the ring.

Then I would get it appraised and insured with Perfect Circle/Jewelers Mutual. Then I would pay to have it unset by my own jeweler (if indeed I hated it), and reset into a new setting. My personal insurance would then cover me during that process in the very very unlikely event that the bezel covered damage, my insurance would cover me.

I would then send the setting back to the vendor and get my refund.

I would post my experience on PS in all its vivid glory.

And then I would MOVE ON with my life!

Really. Truly. This does not need to be a big life alterning drama. I mean that compassionately -- choose a simple path to the desired end result.

 

[missydebby]

OK, wait wait wait. I'm confused here. Do we have pics of the ring? The friend has NOT seen the ring yet, correct?

Don't we always say around here to look at the darned thing and save judgment for real life viewing?

No. He wanted to send it to her without ANY pictures. She insisted on magnified pictures first. He says it looks worse in the pictures than in real life. He took "handshots" to show her what it looks like in real life. She hated it.

Even with the magnification taken out of the big picture, she is unhappy. It seriously reminds me of a flying saucer, and is FAR from delicate.

Yes, typically RTers and CSers do, but in this case, I don't think it's a good call. She's told him she's unhappy with the finished product, she told him that she doesn't want it redone by his bench, and he's refusing to cooperate with any of her requests.

I am having to leave out other specific details because I do not want to out the vendor at this point, it's not my place.

OK, she's an Internet friend. So not a IRL friend. Is she a PSer? Why even post her case here, cause a stir when she doesn't want to out him? I'm confused.

So you don't think it's a good call to take the ring and post her story here? It is up to you to make this decision? I'm really confused Freke...this doesn't make sense to me. I mean, it damn well might be awful, but she should SEE the ring first.

As for the unsetting thing, I admit, that's weird. But none of this is QUITE making sense to me. Some smells off.

I might be wrong, but I thought FC was posting so that the customer could get advice from PS regarding if she should accept the package or not... without going full blown into posting herself? Asking for help by proxy kind of thing?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am not sure I would feel right letting Jeweler's Mutual take the hit for possible damage done before the ring was insured by them, Dreamer. That is kind of unethical and unnecessary since she apparently was told that the vendor insured her stone while in their possession to set it.

And I think I have said this a few times, but why should she have to pay a third party to remove her diamond????

 

[TravelingGal]

If it was me, I would do the simplest thing to move on, and avoid drama.

I would accept the ring.

Then I would get it appraised and insured with Perfect Circle/Jewelers Mutual. Then I would pay to have it unset by my own jeweler (if indeed I hated it), and reset into a new setting. My personal insurance would then cover me during that process in the very very unlikely event that the bezel covered damage, my insurance would cover me.

I would then send the setting back to the vendor and get my refund.

I would post my experience on PS in all its vivid glory.

And then I would MOVE ON with my life!

Really. Truly. This does not need to be a big life alterning drama. I mean that compassionately -- choose a simple path to the desired end result.

Dreamer, agree.

I don't know anything about the ring and it all sounds kind of icky.

Gypsy, I'll take your word for it that something doesn't sound right. And if those two criteria are true, then yes, it's strange. I also think you're pretty much on the up and up when being able to tell what's right for the consumer and what's generally fair.

But I've been here long enough to get a sense when something is going on. I read this thread and thought...something sounds off. And yes, I think this thread sounds really bloodthirsty (MissDebby, it was your comment that struck me)...which leads me to my conclusion that some of you have some other knowledge you are not letting on...

That you know who the vendor is.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am not sure I would feel right letting Jeweler's Mutual take the hit for possible damage done before the ring was insured by them, Dreamer. That is kind of unethical and unnecessary since she apparently was told that the vendor insured her stone while in their possession to set it.

And I think I have said this a few times, but why should she have to pay a third party to remove her diamond????

There is no known damage. And there is no way to prove damage occured in the original setting. I would not find it unethical to insure my ring in this case.

And I don't care if she should not pay ETA: To be clear -- she should not pay, but a time comes when its better to be happy than right, and the cost is so minimal for me its not worth the fight. At this point, I don't see a point in prolonging the drama with a vendor.

 

[derbygal]

I agree with Dreamer. If the stone is truly irreplaceable, then I would not risk it traveling back and ending up lost on some FedEx shelf somewhere. Of course this will cost her, but I'd take that consequence if it were my stone and it was that special to me.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am not sure I would feel right letting Jeweler's Mutual take the hit for possible damage done before the ring was insured by them, Dreamer. That is kind of unethical and unnecessary since she apparently was told that the vendor insured her stone while in their possession to set it.

And I think I have said this a few times, but why should she have to pay a third party to remove her diamond????

There is no known damage. And there is no way to prove damage occured in the original setting. I would not find it unethical to insure my ring in this case.

And I don't care if she should not pay ETA: To be clear -- she should not pay, but a time comes when its better to be happy than right, and the cost is so minimal for me its not worth the fight. At this point, I don't see a point in prolonging the drama with a vendor.

I was just thinking that if she insures the ring on Thursday and has it unset next week, JM might really find that a little suspicious. But that is just my opinion and may be incorrect. Let's just say that I wouldn't want to take that risk, and I also would want the one who caused the damage to cover the replacement cost.

ETA: But, I am hopeful that there is no damage and that the vendor is just trying to manipulate her into keeping the ring. (And I wouldn't keep it at this point under any circumstances.)

 

[yssie]

If it was me, I would do the simplest thing to move on, and avoid drama.

I would accept the ring.

Then I would get it appraised and insured with Perfect Circle/Jewelers Mutual. Then I would pay to have it unset by my own jeweler (if indeed I hated it), and reset into a new setting. My personal insurance would then cover me during that process in the very very unlikely event that the bezel covered damage, my insurance would cover me.

I would then send the setting back to the vendor and get my refund.

I would post my experience on PS in all its vivid glory.

And then I would MOVE ON with my life!

Really. Truly. This does not need to be a big life alterning drama. I mean that compassionately -- choose a simple path to the desired end result.

Dreamer, agree.

I don't know anything about the ring and it all sounds kind of icky.

Gypsy, I'll take your word for it that something doesn't sound right. And if those two criteria are true, then yes, it's strange. I also think you're pretty much on the up and up when being able to tell what's right for the consumer and what's generally fair.

But I've been here long enough to get a sense when something is going on. I read this thread and thought...something sounds off. And yes, I think this thread sounds really bloodthirsty (MissDebby, it was your comment that struck me)...which leads me to my conclusion that some of you have some other knowledge you are not letting on...

That you know who the vendor is.

Should it matter?

Other than to up the ante on the gossip, I mean. The identity of the vendor doesn't make the situation (as depicted in this thread thus far) any more or less confusing, strange, and clearly distressing to the stone's owner.

 

[TravelingGal]

btw, I say this because PS, while it is a consumer forum, it's members tend to err on the side of caution. There isn't enough information early on this thread for me to believe that you all don't know SOMETHING.

Not only that, half of you are crying for the vendor to be outed! That is also a very atypical PS response. Usually people are saying people should try to resolve offline, and to not drag names through the mud.

So take it as a compliment...I think most of you are usually pretty nice, and you're acting out of character!

 

[cygnet]

Okay guys, please don't eat Freke alive-- I'm here now! I asked her to please help me out by posting and gathering opinions for me in a way that would not out the vendor, because I was hoping it would not come to that.

I will try to answer all of your questions as best I can, but please forgive me, because I have been very stressed over the last week (yes, because of this mess), haven't gotten much sleep at all over the last few days and I'm sick now... So I am very tired and might have a hard time answering tons and tons of questions.

I truly, truly wanted to avoid drama and I left PS for my last resort. I did not want this to be a huge spectacle. After a week of emails back and forth and being treated absolutely terribly, and THEN telling him not to send the ring, and voicing my concerns about the possibility of damage and NOT wanting an outside party to unset the stone because they would be blamed for damage (if any) that their bench caused-- after saying "please do not send the ring, I am really concerned about this," he told me he didn't have time for me anymore and "here is your shipping number."

I didn't know what to do. So I asked for help. I absolutely hate being the center of attention, and I wanted to solve this privately with the owner without there being a big fuss, but I've done everything I can short of getting a lawyer involved. Please understand that my main concern is the security of my stone (well, and getting a refund)-- if the stone has been damaged, we cannot afford to replace it on our own dime when the liability rested solely with the vendor and their insurance, and their odd behavior over the last few days has me very worried that some damage has happened and they are trying to escape responsibility for it.

 

[TravelingGal]

If it was me, I would do the simplest thing to move on, and avoid drama.

I would accept the ring.

Then I would get it appraised and insured with Perfect Circle/Jewelers Mutual. Then I would pay to have it unset by my own jeweler (if indeed I hated it), and reset into a new setting. My personal insurance would then cover me during that process in the very very unlikely event that the bezel covered damage, my insurance would cover me.

I would then send the setting back to the vendor and get my refund.

I would post my experience on PS in all its vivid glory.

And then I would MOVE ON with my life!

Really. Truly. This does not need to be a big life alterning drama. I mean that compassionately -- choose a simple path to the desired end result.

Dreamer, agree.

I don't know anything about the ring and it all sounds kind of icky.

Gypsy, I'll take your word for it that something doesn't sound right. And if those two criteria are true, then yes, it's strange. I also think you're pretty much on the up and up when being able to tell what's right for the consumer and what's generally fair.

But I've been here long enough to get a sense when something is going on. I read this thread and thought...something sounds off. And yes, I think this thread sounds really bloodthirsty (MissDebby, it was your comment that struck me)...which leads me to my conclusion that some of you have some other knowledge you are not letting on...

That you know who the vendor is.

Should it matter?

Other than to up the ante on the gossip, I mean. The identity of the vendor doesn't make the situation (as depicted in this thread thus far) any more or less confusing, strange, and clearly distressing to the stone's owner.

Well, it doesn't change the facts of the story, which only the owner and the vendor know (I assume). What it does change for me is the credibility of posters who I generally respect, because I'd have to call them liars if they knew more about the story than they let on, and brought it here to create drama (even if unintentionally by trying to get a resolution for the customer.)

 

[FrekeChild]

Holy cow, I go away for about 5 minutes to put together toddler food and come back to craziness!

btw, I say this because PS, while it is a consumer forum, it's members tend to err on the side of caution. There isn't enough information early on this thread for me to believe that you all don't know SOMETHING.

Not only that, half of you are crying for the vendor to be outed! That is also a very atypical PS response. Usually people are saying people should try to resolve offline, and to not drag names through the mud.

So take it as a compliment...I think most of you are usually pretty nice, and you're acting out of character!

Eesh. Well if it's any kind of indication, TGal, I don't know a lot of the posters who have posted off PS, so I don't know what they know or don't know.

 

[cygnet]

p.s. please don't eat me alive, either

 

[TravelingGal]

Okay guys, please don't eat Freke alive-- I'm here now! I asked her to please help me out by posting and gathering opinions for me in a way that would not out the vendor, because I was hoping it would not come to that.

I will try to answer all of your questions as best I can, but please forgive me, because I have been very stressed over the last week (yes, because of this mess), haven't gotten much sleep at all over the last few days and I'm sick now... So I am very tired and might have a hard time answering tons and tons of questions.

I truly, truly wanted to avoid drama and I left PS for my last resort. I did not want this to be a huge spectacle. After a week of emails back and forth and being treated absolutely terribly, and THEN telling him not to send the ring, and voicing my concerns about the possibility of damage and NOT wanting an outside party to unset the stone because they would be blamed for damage (if any) that their bench caused-- after saying "please do not send the ring, I am really concerned about this," he told me he didn't have time for me anymore and "here is your shipping number."

I didn't know what to do. So I asked for help. I absolutely hate being the center of attention, and I wanted to solve this privately with the owner without there being a big fuss, but I've done everything I can short of getting a lawyer involved. Please understand that my main concern is the security of my stone (well, and getting a refund)-- if the stone has been damaged, we cannot afford to replace it on our own dime when the liability rested solely with the vendor and their insurance, and their odd behavior over the last few days has me very worried that some damage has happened and they are trying to escape responsibility for it.

Ah. DBL. So this all makes sense to me now. Carry on, and I hope you find a resolution.

 

[cygnet]

Oops-- I posted the vendor name and then I deleted it.

It can stay if it'll help solve the problem, but the post about "dragging names through the mud" made me rethink whether or not it was appropriate to post the vendor name.

 

[Gypsy]

If the vendor is DBL then I am out.

Cygnet I wish you and your Octavia the best. I cannot comment further in this thread.

 

[TravelingGal]

p.s. please don't eat me alive, either

Last I checked cygnet, I was the only one asking some pointed questions. The large majority of posters here seemed to want to eat the vendor alive. Freke can take the heat - she's a big girl.

Freke, by offline, I meant that PSers usually tell customers to try not to out vendors ahead of a resolution and try to take it offline with the vendor to resolve. I obviously don't know cygnet's story, and she's stated here she has done what she can.

 

[cygnet]

Okay. I guess the secret's out, then.

Gypsy, thank you for your help thus far. You have been an immensely helpful resource.

Guys-- I hate drama. I'm just really concerned that I have been backed into a corner where the stone may be damaged and they don't have to be held accountable anymore because they shipped it to me against my wishes and essentially told me they're through-- I don't know what I will do if it turns out that the reason for this behavior is because I'm getting screwed.

 

[FrekeChild]

p.s. please don't eat me alive, either

Last I checked cygnet, I was the only one asking some pointed questions. The large majority of posters here seemed to want to eat the vendor alive. Freke can take the heat - she's a big girl.

Freke, by offline, I meant that PSers usually tell customers to try not to out vendors ahead of a resolution and try to take it offline with the vendor to resolve. I obviously don't know cygnet's story, and she's stated here she has done what she can.

Sometimes I have to get out of the kitchen, but I don't mind going to bat for someone to help them out.

Cygnet, you might as well leave the name - anyone can go back through your threads and figure it out in a hot minute.