Overweight? Buy an extra seat

[Kelli]

While I would feel really bad for someone who has to pay for two tickets to ride a plane, I can''t say I totally disagree with the concept either. I would hope that it would be handled tactfully as not to embarrass anyone, and NO WAY would I want to be the one who has to handle it. But I heard on a TV show at one point that Americans used to have no problem fitting into the seats. Back when the planes were first designed, fitting into the seats was not nearly the problem it is for people today. It''s a shame, but I mean come on. I know someone mentioned trying to talk to the big person next to you to make it less uncomfortable because they might be a great conversationalist, but I don''t think that''s the problem. It''s not that people "don''t like" bigger people, but airplane seats are crammed enough as it is. It''s not fair for someone to have to sit in half of a seat with a complete stranger''s body spilling out on top of them.

 

[vintagecushion]

I don''t know...somehow the idea bothers me and I can''t quite pin down why.
Yes, obesity is a problem, and yes, it is extremely uncomfortable to have your seatmate taking over your space. But it bothers me that the airlines can decide who they get to call fat. As sensible as the idea is at face value, the enforcement aspects of it disturbs me. Who would do the measuring? Weight gain can also be a health or socio-economic issue. Agh! Not sure there''s a way to do this without humiliating people and that really bothers me.

 

[Bia]

I understand the reasoning behind paying more if you need more, but telling someone they have to pay for an extra seat because they''re too big to fit in the one, in front of fellow passengers, must be mortifying, and I would be really pi$$ed off at a flight attendant if I saw this take place in front of me.

I once saw a poor woman ask a waiter to change her table because she couldn''t fit in the booth. He was not compassionate at all and made it such a big deal that the lady left, on the verge of tears. Not the same thing, but still. JMHO.

 

[KimberlyH]

While I don''t agree with the method I do agree with the message, if your body requires two seats you need to pay for two seats, not infringe on your seatmates'' space.

I''m on the smaller side and it isn''t uncommon for larger people choose to sit by me so they can have more space when flying on planes that have open seating. The 4 hour flight sitting next to the man who had his elbow in my ribcage the entire time is one I''ll never forget.

 

[Black Jade]

Wow. I guess I just haven''t had all these terrible experiences on airplanes that the rest of you have had. I mean, it''s a little inconvenient nowadays to have all the precautions against terrorists (although I''d rather be inconvenienced than have someone else get on the plane with a bomb). But other than that, I usually enjoy airplane flights. I like looking out of the window and seeing the clouds beneath me--so amazing really. I am either anticipating going somewhere interesting (or to visit people I love), or else I am anticipating going home. I bring a book to read or I take a nap or I have a nice conversation with someone that I wouldn''t otherwise have met. Everyonce in a while I get up and stretch my legs. I really haven''t been forced to sit next to all these enormous farting people with bawling babies kicking the backs of seats that afflict so many of the rest of you. An airline seat is not exactly like an easy chair at home, but it could be worse. I could be driving for hours and hours or even days and days trying to stay awake. I could be on the subway in New York, that I used to take every day to work often with no airconditioning, hanging on to a strap, packed in with other people like sardines.
I''m sorry, maybe as I said before it''s a function of my being a smaller person, but I just don''t suffer so much on an airplane that I feel that I need the FA to humiliate another passenger to make me minimally more comfortable. I HAVE read in this thread that many of you are also concerned about the humiliation that these kinds of rules are going to inflict on a lot of people. Clearly a whole lot of people, since so many on this thread seem to have experienced sitting next to very large people. Which is not surprising, considering so much of the US is now large. Which brings me back to what I said at the beginning. It''s so odd that as America gets bigger we get more and more enraged at fat people and treat them in ways that used to be reserved for people who had actually done something WRONG.

Someone mentioned fat people paying more money for clothes and how that was fair because their clothes take more fabric to make. Actually, that isn''t true. I sew. From the back of sewing envelopes, the variation in the amount of fabric to make clothes for me and for a size 22 person, is usually very minimal, maybe a quarter of a yard. Yet people DO get charged more for bigger clothes. It''s very odd.

On another subject, I have say that I was really glad to see so many on the thread sticking up for parents with crying babies. It was amazing to me to even see the remark on this subject. I was taught to be extra nice to children and to elderly people. Because I was a baby once, and just as annoying as all the the other babies, and I''m going to be old one day and I sure hope that I will not be treated then like a piece of worn out junk.

 

[lucyandroger]

Black Jade, I enjoyed your post. You seem like a very kind person.

Honestly, I''ve never had an issue with sitting next to a very large person on a plane and I travel quite a bit. I''m not a tiny lady so I would think it would be more of a problem for me than for some of these other ladies. Oh, well...I guess I''ve just been lucky.

I can''t imagine having to pay 2X any ticket price! That would make traveling cost prohibitive for lots of folks for sure. I also can''t imagine weigh-ins before boarding a plane. I most certainly would not fly whatever airline implemented that strategy.

 

[Dancing Fire]

XX dollar per lb !!! hey,why not do it for plane fares? we pay XX dollar per ct for diamonds.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 4/30/2009 1:55:45 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
XX dollar per lb !!! hey,why not do it for plane fares? we pay XX dollar per ct for diamonds.

Sure it sounds crazy, but I kinda like it! At least # of lbs is something I can *control* ... where I spread isn't in my control. At my THINNEST adult weight (normal BMI) I couldn't fit comfortably in some of the very narrow seats that have solid armrests on either side. My BONES didn't fit in there. Uncool.

 

[strmrdr]

Im a big guy and one extender will do the trick and the only problem I have had with armrests was a 727 with the narrowest seats I have ever seen.
No one could be comfortable in them.
By paying attention to the plane type it is not an issue.
What is strange is that the most comfortable planes for big people are not US designed planes.
The Airbus and Embraer are much more comfortable.
The seats arent much wider(within an inch) but the seat layout is much better.

The most uncomfortable seating situation I had was a lady with wide hips who wasn''t heavy just real wide, A bony hip digging into me for 2 hours was bad.
Someone with some padding would have been much more comfortable.
That was on a 737, she was a nice lady and we had a nice chat.

Far more often a screaming kid has made me want to jump out of the plane!!!
I agree with a huge fare increase for screaming kids... well not really because it is not nice for the same reason charging big people isn''t nice.

It really sucks that some skeletons have to try and improve their self worth by putting down big people.
Big people and smokers the new groups that jerks think it is ok to discriminate against.
Personally I just fire back....
The latest one was some lady who said wide load, I said.. Do people pay to go skiing off your nose? I have seen smaller ski slopes.
She sure didn''t know what to say to that!

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/29/2009 11:55:33 PM
Author: lucyandroger
Black Jade, I enjoyed your post. You seem like a very kind person.

ditto. I enjoyed reading it too and agree with a lot of what you said.

 

[Kelli]

Date: 4/29/2009 8:34:24 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 4/29/2009 7:17:30 PM
Author: EBree
What you ticket price buys along with passage is a full seat, and it simply isn''t fair to have to squish into three-fourths or half of a seat when you''ve paid for the full thing.

Just not sure about that. Trains don''t work that way ... even Amtrak ... you''re not even guaranteed a seat period. People stand in the aisles all the way from NYC to DC on busy days. What you *do* seem to be guaranteed in that case is a strange man''s *e* stabbing you in the thigh.

Gross! I''d have a SERIOUS problem with that.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 4/29/2009 4:14:20 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 4/29/2009 4:06:42 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/29/2009 4:04:00 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS


Yeah, I''ve heard this. I used to watch that show on A&E I think it was the reality show about airlines..and they used to show people trying to fly on Southwest affected by this. The tears, etc. And yes they did weigh the people at times if I remember correctly. Most of the time they seemed to go by the seat-belt extender rule...but it also was by the arm rests.

Blah. Weighing people does no one any good. 150 lbs on someone who is 4''8'' is going to fit differently than 150 lbs on someone who is 5''10'' Unless they''re standing by with a BMI Chart?

Measuring inches is the only way to be able to decide if someone fits or not.

Maybe they''ll start adding this to our Rapid Rewards account numbers

.

Ohh, I just had a horrible thought. What if they started a black list. You could be unable to even purchase 1 ticket on that airline without being flagged for being overweight on your last trip.

I don''t disagree with the policy, but it is something that should be handled with tact.

Along the blacklist lines.....maybe that doesn''t have to be a negative thing. If you are too large to fit into one seat and are required to purchase two, then being on some sort of list could prevent the embarassment of boarding a plane only to find out that you''re too large and having it made public that you have to pony up some cash and/or move.

When DH and I flew to Miami from Detroit for our honeymoon I got sandwiched between my husband and some obese guy. Ugh. My newly-wed glow faded pretty fast when I realized I''d be sharing my seat. I didn''t complain to the FA, but I also didn''t put my armrest up to allow the obese guy more room. Instead DH put his armrest up (he had the window seat) and we squished together.

 

[lucyandroger]

wow, I wonder why this thread turned into a fat people bashing thread?

It''s not like these obese people gained weight so that they could "steal" half of your seat. They weren''t maliciously "spilling over the arm rest." Frankly, they were probably 100 times more uncomfortable about the situation than you were....geez

Yes, being overweight is unhealthy and for most people could be avoided by making better choices. However, can you imagine if you had to wear your poor life choices on your body and walk around with them everywhere for people to make fun of? I know I would NOT like that.

 

[Bliss]

I agree that airplane seats are TOO SMALL for the average American. Most people don't FIT in the seats. So many times I've been next to people who are NOT obese, simply of average weight and healthy -- and they are uncomfortable in the seats. They're just too small at this point. I'm a size 0 or 2 and it fits me with room on both sides of the seat, but I'm not the normal American size! Plus, I'm SHORT!

It makes me sad that airlines won't increase the ridiculous size of their tiny seats so that many passengers are forced to literally sit in pain for hours at a time. And if the rest of the plane were more compassionate, maybe it wouldn't be such a problem.

OK, I wouldn't ENJOY lifting my armrest and being body-to-body with a larger passenger who had trouble fitting into his/her seat. But I would do it cheerfully if needed. It's humanity at its most basic level. It's just love for your fellow human being who has probably been through a hell of a lot worse than you have that day, going through the stares and eye rolling and comments. Some larger people actually don't even go outside for this reason - they sit like prisoners in their homes because it's too painful to endure a prejudiced world. It's very very sad!

I wouldn't mind paying more for a seat so that others could sit more comfortably. If it makes for a better world, then it's good for all of us. I think many of us are lucky not to have been forced to endure humiliation and suffering from not fitting in. So we should be extra compassionate to those the world is unkind to - I mean, it only generates good karma for everyone, especially for ourselves and our loved ones. The more loving we are as a species, the smaller our own problems seem in the grand scale of things - so we also benefit from the added stress relief! Good things happen to good people, yo! SUPA GRANNY SAYS SO! LOL.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 4/30/2009 11:20:14 AM
Author: Bliss
I agree that airplane seats are TOO SMALL for the average American. Most people don''t FIT in the seats. So many times I''ve been next to people who are NOT obese, simply of average weight and healthy -- and they are uncomfortable in the seats. They''re just too small at this point. I''m a size 0 or 2 and it fits me with room on both sides of the seat, but I''m not the normal American size! Plus, I''m SHORT!

It makes me sad that airlines won''t increase the ridiculous size of their tiny seats so that many passengers are forced to literally sit in pain for hours at a time. And if the rest of the plane were more compassionate, maybe it wouldn''t be such a problem.

OK, I wouldn''t ENJOY lifting my armrest and being body-to-body with a larger passenger who had trouble fitting into his/her seat. But I would do it cheerfully if needed. It''s humanity at its most basic level. It''s just love for your fellow human being who has probably been through a hell of a lot worse than you have that day, going through the stares and eye rolling and comments. Some larger people actually don''t even go outside for this reason - they sit like prisoners in their homes because it''s too painful to endure a prejudiced world. It''s very very sad!

I wouldn''t mind paying more for a seat so that others could sit more comfortably. If it makes for a better world, then it''s good for all of us. I think many of us are lucky not to have been forced to endure humiliation and suffering from not fitting in. So we should be extra compassionate to those the world is unkind to - I mean, it only generates good karma for everyone, especially for ourselves and our loved ones. The more loving we are as a species, the smaller our own problems seem in the grand scale of things - so we also benefit from the added stress relief! Good things happen to good people, yo! SUPA GRANNY SAYS SO! LOL.

I must say, that''s extremely nice of you, Bliss!

I do have compassion for those who suffer from ridicule because of their size, and I don''t not want to share my seat because they are fat people or I''m mean. It simply makes me very uncomfortable. I''m already extremely claustrophobic, and every inch of my seat matters to me. That''s every inch that I''ve paid for.

I usually try to pay extra for exit row seats because of my long legs, I barely fit in a normal seat length-wise. I have to have an aisle seat (which sometimes costs more) because I freak out of I''m trapped on the inside.

Fact of the matter is, you pay more to be more comfortable. I don''t think I should be guilted into giving up some of my seat because someone else needs more room. I''ve paid for my seat, I deserve my seat.

And I would pay a few more dollars for a seat if they just took out ONE row to increase leg space. My poor legs!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

LtlFirecracker, that is pretty judgmental! I gained an insane amount of weight and I did not use pregnancy as an excuse to pig out 24/7. SOME women just gain a lot. I know there are many of us. We went on to have healthy children. Even still I could still fit in a seat. Obviously the majority of the extra weight was out not width.

 

[whitby_2773]

i once travelled from sydney australia to england between 2 tongan brothers. has anyone been watching the current series of ''Biggest Loser''? well, i was between two of those types of gents.

we were in a 3 person row (as opposed to a 4 seat or 2 seat section), and they had bought seats 1 and 3 - SPECIFICALLY because they knew they were too big to sit next to each other. they were hoping that seat 2 would not be sold. well, guess what....

here comes whitby! and i was squashed. alllll the 14 hours to thailand - the halfway stop over to london!! but i dont know what was worse - that they were soo huge (i mean - their shoulders almost touched WITHOUT me in the seat in the middle!!) or the fact that they had both been eating a whooooooole lot of garlic beforehand! they both then poured sweat...all the way to thailand.

i was about 22 at the time and i have never had such a bad flight, before or since - and i fly a lot and have had some bad ones!

(mind you - there was the time we got caught in an electrical storm in a prop air craft and were forced out of the air and had to land in a paddock...THAT was pretty bad! but that''s another thread...)

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 4/29/2009 10:05:29 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker


Many women gain a lot of weight in pregnancy, but it is not ok to gain a bunch of weight just because you are pregnant. Normal weight gain is between 20-35 pounds depending on weather or not you are overweight or underweight (overweight women are supposed to gain less). OB''s measure weight gain, and if you are gaining higer than normal (I think it is 1 pound a week in the second trimester), then they will tell the women she is overeating and needs to cut back. Excessive weight gain puts the mother and baby at risk for serious medical complications.

I am not sure where people got the idea that it is OK to gain an indefinite amount of weight in pregnancy. But I notice that a lot of women do gain too much weight and are under the impression that is just part of being pregnant.

Not necessarily true. OBs will tell a woman to cut back on their weight gain IF it is posing a risk to the baby or weight happens to be one of their hot buttons. My OB could care less about weight gain as long as the baby isn''t affected. Her words exactly were "I''m not the one that has to lose it all once the baby is here." Her partner, however, is very strict on weight because its just one of his buttons. Weight and OBs are very subjective.

 

[Bliss]

Date: 4/30/2009 11:33:49 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/30/2009 11:20:14 AM

Author: Bliss

I agree that airplane seats are TOO SMALL for the average American. Most people don't FIT in the seats. So many times I've been next to people who are NOT obese, simply of average weight and healthy -- and they are uncomfortable in the seats. They're just too small at this point. I'm a size 0 or 2 and it fits me with room on both sides of the seat, but I'm not the normal American size! Plus, I'm SHORT!


It makes me sad that airlines won't increase the ridiculous size of their tiny seats so that many passengers are forced to literally sit in pain for hours at a time. And if the rest of the plane were more compassionate, maybe it wouldn't be such a problem.


OK, I wouldn't ENJOY lifting my armrest and being body-to-body with a larger passenger who had trouble fitting into his/her seat. But I would do it cheerfully if needed. It's humanity at its most basic level. It's just love for your fellow human being who has probably been through a hell of a lot worse than you have that day, going through the stares and eye rolling and comments. Some larger people actually don't even go outside for this reason - they sit like prisoners in their homes because it's too painful to endure a prejudiced world. It's very very sad!


I wouldn't mind paying more for a seat so that others could sit more comfortably. If it makes for a better world, then it's good for all of us. I think many of us are lucky not to have been forced to endure humiliation and suffering from not fitting in. So we should be extra compassionate to those the world is unkind to - I mean, it only generates good karma for everyone, especially for ourselves and our loved ones. The more loving we are as a species, the smaller our own problems seem in the grand scale of things - so we also benefit from the added stress relief! Good things happen to good people, yo! SUPA GRANNY SAYS SO! LOL.

I must say, that's extremely nice of you, Bliss!


I do have compassion for those who suffer from ridicule because of their size, and I don't not want to share my seat because they are fat people or I'm mean. It simply makes me very uncomfortable. I'm already extremely claustrophobic, and every inch of my seat matters to me. That's every inch that I've paid for.


I usually try to pay extra for exit row seats because of my long legs, I barely fit in a normal seat length-wise. I have to have an aisle seat (which sometimes costs more) because I freak out of I'm trapped on the inside.


Fact of the matter is, you pay more to be more comfortable. I don't think I should be guilted into giving up some of my seat because someone else needs more room. I've paid for my seat, I deserve my seat.


And I would pay a few more dollars for a seat if they just took out ONE row to increase leg space. My poor legs!

Awwww, elledizzy5, I know you are a very intelligent and compassionate person! I agree... it is never pleasant to be squished and crowded. (And sometimes it is painful for us smaller ladies, too!) But maybe the way we have handicapped parking, because people don't give up parking spots to those who truly need it, the airlines should have specially designed seats for those who need extra room. Extra leg room would be nice for the nice tall leggy ladies like yourself! (LUCKY!)

I'd be willing to pay more for special seats for those who need them. I feel that as a society, we are trustees of *everyone* in it. Hey, in the next life I could be that person. Or one day I could be injured and have to rely on the compassion of others to live my life. It's never fun to do the right thing, and sometimes it really really isn't fun, but it always always pays off in the end. Or maybe I just keep saying that to make myself feel better! LOL.

 

[steph72276]

Date: 4/30/2009 11:34:19 AM
Author: Tacori E-ring
LtlFirecracker, that is pretty judgmental! I gained an insane amount of weight and I did not use pregnancy as an excuse to pig out 24/7. SOME women just gain a lot. I know there are many of us. We went on to have healthy children. Even still I could still fit in a seat. Obviously the majority of the extra weight was out not width.

AMEM, sister! I gained 55 pounds during pregnancy....my doctor said at least 15 pounds of it was because I was soooo very swollen (and also had very little movement due to being on bedrest for 3 ENTIRE MONTHS). Not all people that gain lots of weight during pregnancy do so because they go out on a pigfest, thank you!

 

[tlh]

Black Jade, your post was very kind. As a small person, I''ve not wanted to call the FA over to make someone switch seats, and when I don''t fly w/ my DH, I am often the person who''s space is encroached upon. But I don''t do anything to make anyone else uncomfortable. When seated next to a large person, which is becoming more and more a common occurance (I''ve been flying since I was a little girl, and until this century wasn''t an almost every flight problem) I corkscrew my body. I absolutely hate being touched. I am extremely sensitive to touch, that even stroking my arm will chaffe me. (This hypersensitivity, has its perks some places though...

) But I don''t like being touched by strangers even more. So I will actually curve my body to the point where I may be flying twisted on my side so that the other person can have more room. I''m not saying I don''t talk to the person. I''d rather not, chit chat with a stranger... I''d actually rather lay back and sleep for the 3-4 hour flight.

I don''t recline my seat, even when the person in front of me has theirs reclined, so that I can''t even sit comfortably (with criss crossed legs), and enjoy my tray table being down without bumping my knees. I know that everyone has the right to recline their seat, (with the exception of the very last row on the plane, and the row in front of the emergency exit aisle) but I don''t because I feel it takes the space away from another passenger. If the FA came up to me to tell me to put my seat up, because the person behind me was large (or just uncomfortable), I guess I lack backbone, to say no, but I would put my seat up. I would be angry why they couldn''t tell the person in front of me to put theirs up too, but I wouldn''t say anything. I mean, my rights get infringed upon everyday... but, would I trade places with a larger person, even for a day? NO WAY.

American society has a sense of entitlement. I''m entitled to recline my seat because it is an option. I''m entitled to spill into your seat because I cannot help it I''m large. I''m entitled to my full seat because I paid for a full seat just like you did. Life isn''t fair, get used to it... that works everywhere but the USA, if life isn''t fair here, complain about it. Take from those that have, and give to those that haven''t... in this case the object is space. Space has a premium, but no one wants to pay the price for it. This is more than just an argument for a bigger seat.

I wish I could just argue common courtesy, but the sense of entitlement, it amazing. Just because you can, doesn''t mean you SHOULD. Am I arguing that all seats should not recline? Maybe, maybe not. Would making the seats bigger solve this problem? Maybe, maybe not. I personally wouldn''t mind a little more space, but I wouldn''t want to pay a higher premium for that space to accomodate someone other than me. America is getting fatter. This is more than just an "eye sore" this is a REAL HEALTH CRISIS that is facing our country. People like to throw that Marilyn Monroe was a size 14 or 16.. but it never occurs to women that all the clothing manufacturers did is replace those same clothing garments with a smaller number on the inside tag. Why? to make people OKAY about the fact that we''ve been gaining weight for years... and Ms Monroe may have been curvey, but her curves are more like a current size 8-10... depending on where you shop from. Yes, losing weight is HARD. Some diseases, make it extremely difficult to lose weight. Being a healthy fit weight is not easy, nor is it inexpensive. Fresh produce is at a premium, when McDonald''s has a Big and Tastey for a Buck. Getting to work is no longer as simple as walking to work... we''re in our cars sometimes HOURS in addition to sitting at a computer for HOURS MORE... we''re overworked and exhausted. By the time we come home, we unwind to the TV. It is a lot harder to go for a 30 minute run, walk, or head to the gym. We''re not getting exercise like we used to, and food is becoming more processed and expensive. It is a vicious cycle and our bodies, and lives are what we''re giving up in the process.

It is wrong to judge someone for being larger... ultimately the viewpoint in why it is okay to discriminate against the morbidly obese, is because it is "a choice". It doesn''t make it right. Yes, I do believe that being heavy is a SERIES of choices and sometimes life factors that lead there. I''m a very small female, and I have to constantly have my thyroid monitered, as well as my cholesterol due to hereditary reasons - so yes there are health factors that play a part. But as a society, we''re not moving towards the healthy. We''re replacing kids lunches in schools w/ pizza hut and taco bell because it is cheaper and the kids won''t eat the other stuff. They are removing gym classes from schools!!! It is about DIET and EXERCISE. Diet, I''m not talking about atkins, weight watchers, etc. I''m talking about portion control, lean meats, fresh produce, and avoiding trans fats, and processed foods. Exercise, yeah, sure SOUNDS EASY? Walking, isn''t always enough to lose weight. You have to burn a sweat. Sitting for an hour burns 80 calories. Standing for an hour burns.. 80 calories. Walking 1 mile burns... 80 calories. Your body is a complex machine and adjusts easily to change. But, the extra weight, causes issues w/ your joints- and makes it hard. Easy to hurt yourself. How expensive is it to visit the DR every time you have an injury??? We''re hating on smokers because they chose to smoke. And as the non-smoker, we''ve been able to push them out of restaurants, and in some cases, PUBLIC PARKS. This is now the anti-fat movement... but where are we pushing them? "Fat class?" I don''t know what the answer is, but it is much larger than telling people to stop being fat.

Sorry I ranted... off the box.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 4/29/2009 11:25:23 PM
Author: Black Jade
Wow. I guess I just haven''t had all these terrible experiences on airplanes that the rest of you have had. I mean, it''s a little inconvenient nowadays to have all the precautions against terrorists (although I''d rather be inconvenienced than have someone else get on the plane with a bomb). But other than that, I usually enjoy airplane flights. I like looking out of the window and seeing the clouds beneath me--so amazing really. I am either anticipating going somewhere interesting (or to visit people I love), or else I am anticipating going home. I bring a book to read or I take a nap or I have a nice conversation with someone that I wouldn''t otherwise have met. Everyonce in a while I get up and stretch my legs. I really haven''t been forced to sit next to all these enormous farting people with bawling babies kicking the backs of seats that afflict so many of the rest of you. An airline seat is not exactly like an easy chair at home, but it could be worse. I could be driving for hours and hours or even days and days trying to stay awake. I could be on the subway in New York, that I used to take every day to work often with no airconditioning, hanging on to a strap, packed in with other people like sardines.

I''m sorry, maybe as I said before it''s a function of my being a smaller person, but I just don''t suffer so much on an airplane that I feel that I need the FA to humiliate another passenger to make me minimally more comfortable. I HAVE read in this thread that many of you are also concerned about the humiliation that these kinds of rules are going to inflict on a lot of people. Clearly a whole lot of people, since so many on this thread seem to have experienced sitting next to very large people. Which is not surprising, considering so much of the US is now large. Which brings me back to what I said at the beginning. It''s so odd that as America gets bigger we get more and more enraged at fat people and treat them in ways that used to be reserved for people who had actually done something WRONG.


Someone mentioned fat people paying more money for clothes and how that was fair because their clothes take more fabric to make. Actually, that isn''t true. I sew. From the back of sewing envelopes, the variation in the amount of fabric to make clothes for me and for a size 22 person, is usually very minimal, maybe a quarter of a yard. Yet people DO get charged more for bigger clothes. It''s very odd.


On another subject, I have say that I was really glad to see so many on the thread sticking up for parents with crying babies. It was amazing to me to even see the remark on this subject. I was taught to be extra nice to children and to elderly people. Because I was a baby once, and just as annoying as all the the other babies, and I''m going to be old one day and I sure hope that I will not be treated then like a piece of worn out junk.

 

[Bliss]

Date: 4/30/2009 12:07:00 PM
Author: tlh
Black Jade, your post was very kind. As a small person, I've not wanted to call the FA over to make someone switch seats, and when I don't fly w/ my DH, I am often the person who's space is encroached upon. But I don't do anything to make anyone else uncomfortable. When seated next to a large person, which is becoming more and more a common occurance (I've been flying since I was a little girl, and until this century wasn't an almost every flight problem) I corkscrew my body. I absolutely hate being touched. I am extremely sensitive to touch, that even stroking my arm will chaffe me. (This hypersensitivity, has its perks some places though...

) But I don't like being touched by strangers even more. So I will actually curve my body to the point where I may be flying twisted on my side so that the other person can have more room. I'm not saying I don't talk to the person. I'd rather not, chit chat with a stranger... I'd actually rather lay back and sleep for the 3-4 hour flight.


I don't recline my seat, even when the person in front of me has theirs reclined, so that I can't even sit comfortably (with criss crossed legs), and enjoy my tray table being down without bumping my knees. I know that everyone has the right to recline their seat, (with the exception of the very last row on the plane, and the row in front of the emergency exit aisle) but I don't because I feel it takes the space away from another passenger. If the FA came up to me to tell me to put my seat up, because the person behind me was large (or just uncomfortable), I guess I lack backbone, to say no, but I would put my seat up. I would be angry why they couldn't tell the person in front of me to put theirs up too, but I wouldn't say anything. I mean, my rights get infringed upon everyday... but, would I trade places with a larger person, even for a day? NO WAY.


American society has a sense of entitlement. I'm entitled to recline my seat because it is an option. I'm entitled to spill into your seat because I cannot help it I'm large. I'm entitled to my full seat because I paid for a full seat just like you did. Life isn't fair, get used to it... that works everywhere but the USA, if life isn't fair here, complain about it. Take from those that have, and give to those that haven't... in this case the object is space. Space has a premium, but no one wants to pay the price for it. This is more than just an argument for a bigger seat.


I wish I could just argue common courtesy, but the sense of entitlement, it amazing. Just because you can, doesn't mean you SHOULD. Am I arguing that all seats should not recline? Maybe, maybe not. Would making the seats bigger solve this problem? Maybe, maybe not. I personally wouldn't mind a little more space, but I wouldn't want to pay a higher premium for that space to accomodate someone other than me. America is getting fatter. This is more than just an 'eye sore' this is a REAL HEALTH CRISIS that is facing our country. People like to throw that Marilyn Monroe was a size 14 or 16.. but it never occurs to women that all the clothing manufacturers did is replace those same clothing garments with a smaller number on the inside tag. Why? to make people OKAY about the fact that we've been gaining weight for years... and Ms Monroe may have been curvey, but her curves are more like a current size 8-10... depending on where you shop from. Yes, losing weight is HARD. Some diseases, make it extremely difficult to lose weight. Being a healthy fit weight is not easy, nor is it inexpensive. Fresh produce is at a premium, when McDonald's has a Big and Tastey for a Buck. Getting to work is no longer as simple as walking to work... we're in our cars sometimes HOURS in addition to sitting at a computer for HOURS MORE... we're overworked and exhausted. By the time we come home, we unwind to the TV. It is a lot harder to go for a 30 minute run, walk, or head to the gym. We're not getting exercise like we used to, and food is becoming more processed and expensive. It is a vicious cycle and our bodies, and lives are what we're giving up in the process.


It is wrong to judge someone for being larger... ultimately the viewpoint in why it is okay to discriminate against the morbidly obese, is because it is 'a choice'. It doesn't make it right. Yes, I do believe that being heavy is a SERIES of choices and sometimes life factors that lead there. I'm a very small female, and I have to constantly have my thyroid monitered, as well as my cholesterol due to hereditary reasons - so yes there are health factors that play a part. But as a society, we're not moving towards the healthy. We're replacing kids lunches in schools w/ pizza hut and taco bell because it is cheaper and the kids won't eat the other stuff. They are removing gym classes from schools!!! It is about DIET and EXERCISE. Diet, I'm not talking about atkins, weight watchers, etc. I'm talking about portion control, lean meats, fresh produce, and avoiding trans fats, and processed foods. Exercise, yeah, sure SOUNDS EASY? Walking, isn't always enough to lose weight. You have to burn a sweat. Sitting for an hour burns 80 calories. Standing for an hour burns.. 80 calories. Walking 1 mile burns... 80 calories. Your body is a complex machine and adjusts easily to change. But, the extra weight, causes issues w/ your joints- and makes it hard. Easy to hurt yourself. How expensive is it to visit the DR every time you have an injury??? We're hating on smokers because they chose to smoke. And as the non-smoker, we've been able to push them out of restaurants, and in some cases, PUBLIC PARKS. This is now the anti-fat movement... but where are we pushing them? 'Fat class?' I don't know what the answer is, but it is much larger than telling people to stop being fat.


Sorry I ranted... off the box.

You make really good points, so may I chime in for the other side?

I think smoking is a different issue because it's been proven that secondhand smoke causes CANCER and harms other people. (I hate smoke and in NYC, you can't walk a block without inhaling secondhand smoke!) It's just as harmful to inhale secondhand smoke or more so than smoking, actually.

I don't think it's fair to smokers to people who are overweight because they're not harming anyone physically the way smokers do. Also... No one *wants* to be obese, especially the people who are obese. It comes with serious health ailments, shortens one's life, comes with a lot of pain and emotional suffering as well. I have a couple of very close friends who are large, and it is NO picnic. They do not WANT to be that way. Trust me. It's either a medical condition or an underlying issue that is beyond that person's control. I guess that's why I am perhaps overly sympathetic, if one can say such a thing. My best friend has struggled with it for decades and she is one of the most amazing people I know. It hurts me to think she walks around in the world with people resenting her, insulting her and making her life a living Hades because of her size.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Date: 4/30/2009 12:05:30 PM
Author: steph72276

Date: 4/30/2009 11:34:19 AM

Author: Tacori E-ring

LtlFirecracker, that is pretty judgmental! I gained an insane amount of weight and I did not use pregnancy as an excuse to pig out 24/7. SOME women just gain a lot. I know there are many of us. We went on to have healthy children. Even still I could still fit in a seat. Obviously the majority of the extra weight was out not width.

AMEM, sister! I gained 55 pounds during pregnancy....my doctor said at least 15 pounds of it was because I was soooo very swollen (and also had very little movement due to being on bedrest for 3 ENTIRE MONTHS). Not all people that gain lots of weight during pregnancy do so because they go out on a pigfest, thank you!

Steph, I know MORE women who gained 40+ lbs than the "average." My doctor said the same thing as fiery that the ONLY reason they would be concerned was b/c the more you gain the more you have to lose after the birth. There was never ONE mention (from my OB) that they were concerned about the baby.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 4/30/2009 12:07:00 PM
Author: tlh


I don''t recline my seat, even when the person in front of me has theirs reclined, so that I can''t even sit comfortably (with criss crossed legs), and enjoy my tray table being down without bumping my knees. I know that everyone has the right to recline their seat, (with the exception of the very last row on the plane, and the row in front of the emergency exit aisle) but I don''t because I feel it takes the space away from another passenger. If the FA came up to me to tell me to put my seat up, because the person behind me was large (or just uncomfortable), I guess I lack backbone, to say no, but I would put my seat up. I would be angry why they couldn''t tell the person in front of me to put theirs up too, but I wouldn''t say anything. I mean, my rights get infringed upon everyday... but, would I trade places with a larger person, even for a day? NO WAY.

American society has a sense of entitlement. I''m entitled to recline my seat because it is an option. I''m entitled to spill into your seat because I cannot help it I''m large. I''m entitled to my full seat because I paid for a full seat just like you did. Life isn''t fair, get used to it... that works everywhere but the USA, if life isn''t fair here, complain about it. Take from those that have, and give to those that haven''t... in this case the object is space. Space has a premium, but no one wants to pay the price for it. This is more than just an argument for a bigger seat.

I wish I could just argue common courtesy, but the sense of entitlement, it amazing. Just because you can, doesn''t mean you SHOULD. Am I arguing that all seats should not recline? Maybe, maybe not.

Seriously! I could not imagine insisting that my seat stay in the reclined position, if I knew that it was making someone else uncomfortable. Claiming one''s entitlement to recline a seat on a plane to someone else''s great discomfort reveals a lack of common courtesy and a serious lack of empathy. I would rather be uncomfortable myself than know that I was causing someone else discomfort.

 

[tlh]

Date: 4/30/2009 12:20:01 PM
Author: Bliss

You make really good points, so may I chime in for the other side?

I think smoking is a different issue because it''s been proven that secondhand smoke causes CANCER and harms other people. (I hate smoke and in NYC, you can''t walk a block without inhaling secondhand smoke!) It''s just as harmful to inhale secondhand smoke or more so than smoking, actually.

I don''t think it''s fair to smokers to people who are overweight because they''re not harming anyone physically the way smokers do. Also... No one *wants* to be obese, especially the people who are obese. It comes with serious health ailments, shortens one''s life, comes with a lot of pain and emotional suffering as well. I have a couple of very close friends who are large, and it is NO picnic. They do not WANT to be that way. Trust me. It''s either a medical condition or an underlying issue that is beyond that person''s control. I guess that''s why I am perhaps overly sympathetic, if one can say such a thing. My best friend has struggled with it for decades and she is one of the most amazing people I know. It hurts me to think she walks around in the world with people resenting her, insulting her and making her life a living Hades because of her size.

I agree. Smoking and Obesity aren''t the same thing. I was just more comparing the public oppinion on CHOICE. I agree, no one goes out and says, man, I want to be MORBIDLY OBESE and shorten my lifespan, and make my life incredibly uncomfortable and subject myself to public judgement and possible ridicule. But people perceive larger people as through a series of choices "CHOOSING" to be that way. That was my comparison on smoking. We don''t like smokers because they infringe on my right to clean air and not get cancer. We don''t like larger people because they encroach on our space and make me uncomfortbale. Yet chubby babies are cute!
and whitby- The biggest loser is my FAVORITE SHOW!

 

[NovemberBride]

For those of you who suggest that everyone just suck it up and suffer through a flight with someone sitting in part of your seat, what do you suggest when that is literally impossible. Thats is the situation I found myself in on a recent flight - I was seated next to a man who took up more than half my seat. Forget putting the armrest down, you would not have been able to find my seatbelt under him. Even my very petite size 4 butt couldn''t have squeezed into the portion of the seat left (less htan 1/2). Assuming a full flight, what should have been done? The plane can''t leave unless everyone is seated and buckled in. There is no way on earth that was possible in this case. Only one of us was going to be able to occupy the seat I purchased. Would you suggest I have to take another flight so this man could occupy both his seat and mine?

Leave aside whether airlines should have larger seats, etc for the moment because that''s not something that can be changed immediately and wasn''t an option for resolving this issue at the time.

 

[Bliss]

tlh, I agree! Chubby babies are cute! Large people are beautiful, too. I mean, in several cultures, larger is beautiful. We've been so brainwashed to think A and B are beautiful and C and D are not. When I go to Asia, I'm supa fly. When I go to Africa, I'm a skeletal freak of nature no man would ever deem worthy of marrying. Also, some larger people are actually healthy and live long lives. Of course, I'm not talking about morbid obesity -- but on the whole, many people who are larger do live very long active lives. My friend laughs a lot, is funny as heck and is an incredible human being. Her whole family is large, too. They are all sooooo beautiful and incredible as people. I love 'em!

My other friend is an incredible swimmer/athlete. Most people would call her obese but she is FIT and STRONG!!!!

But on the other hand, I do know of some incredible women who used size as a defense mechanism. I've done a lot of work volunteering in different women's groups and public service and it is eye-opening. Many women who were abused as children used food to numb their feelings. It's very sad because when they walk around, people only see their outsides. They think they got to that size because of laziness, complicity or willful self-indulgence. Not so.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 4/30/2009 4:20:55 AM
Author: strmrdr
Im a big guy and one extender will do the trick and the only problem I have had with armrests was a 727 with the narrowest seats I have ever seen.

No one could be comfortable in them.
By paying attention to the plane type it is not an issue.
What is strange is that the most comfortable planes for big people are not US designed planes.
The Airbus and Embraer are much more comfortable.
The seats arent much wider(within an inch) but the seat layout is much better.

The most uncomfortable seating situation I had was a lady with wide hips who wasn''t heavy just real wide, A bony hip digging into me for 2 hours was bad.
Someone with some padding would have been much more comfortable.
That was on a 737, she was a nice lady and we had a nice chat.


Far more often a screaming kid has made me want to jump out of the plane!!!
I agree with a huge fare increase for screaming kids... well not really because it is not nice for the same reason charging big people isn''t nice.

It really sucks that some skeletons have to try and improve their self worth by putting down big people.
Big people and smokers the new groups that jerks think it is ok to discriminate against.
Personally I just fire back....
The latest one was some lady who said wide load, I said.. Do people pay to go skiing off your nose? I have seen smaller ski slopes.
She sure didn''t know what to say to that!

But see, you just put down skinny people by calling them skeletons. As someone who was mercilessly mocked throughout my school years for being very thin, sometimes by overweight people, I don''t feel that sorry for fat people who get made fun of. Anyone who''s different gets mocked in our society-sad but true.

As a frequent airline passenger, I do think people who take up more than 1 seat should have to pay for another seat if there aren''t any extra seats available. If there are extra seats available, airline personnel should let them have an empty seat next to them. It''s not discrimination, it''s just logical. If someone takes up 2 seats, they should have to pay for it.

Another option is have seats that are equal to 1.5 seats and let a person pay 1.5 times the usual fare for a larger seat. But until airlines introduce those options, it''s only fair to other passengers that they buy 2 seats.

 

[Steel]

Date: 4/30/2009 4:20:55 AM
Author: strmrdr

Personally I just fire back....
The latest one was some lady who said wide load, I said.. Do people pay to go skiing off your nose? I have seen smaller ski slopes.
She sure didn''t know what to say to that!

That was mean of her Karl. People suck.