Overweight? Buy an extra seat

[Lauren8211]

Date: 4/30/2009 6:55:39 PM
Author: musey

Date: 4/30/2009 5:57:29 PM

Author: Margot

...but his retort was in response to a horrid comment she made... and her behavior is something she COULD help...by keeping her mouth shut.


I took it as more of a ''this is how it feels when you say something like that to someone else.''

Yeah, we were just reading it differently. I took it more as ''make fun of my lifestyle choice? I''ll make fun of your face.'' Now I know that Strm''s situation is not a lifestyle choice, but most people would assume otherwise since that is not the norm.


AGAIN (and again), I''m not defending her terrible behavior, just making a case for true ''tit for tat,'' if that''s what one is going for. Maybe make fun of the cigarette in her hand, or her bad B.O., but her nose is something she was born with.


Or just ignore it. That''s what I do when people say I look ''dead'' because I''m so pale

, rather than come back with ''you look like a leather bag'' (which is still a more fair comparison, as my comeback is more about a personal choice than the initial insult).


I never intended to get this in-depth about that one response, it just made me a little sad to see so much support for such a negative thing.

Agreed. Just because someone is ignorant, doesn''t mean you need to fire back.

Her comment was undeniably rude, and sorry to be cliche, but two wrongs don''t make a right.

IMO, one could point out that the comment was rude and hurtful, instead of stooping to their level and insulting them back. That''s playground stuff.

 

[aliceinwonderland]

I think that if you infringe on my seat space you should have to pay for it period! It''s not about compassion or entitlement it''s about the fact that I shouldn''t have to be plastered against somebody else for that amount of time. And I do not think that this can be compared to seats for people with handicaps who are protected by law in Canada (and I assume the United States). Until they enact legislation that guarantees obese people extended rights this argument doesn''t work for me. And I would also argue that in many cases people with disabilities DO pay more for services etc. b/c they have extended needs which are more expensive.

That''s my rant!
Alice

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 4/30/2009 6:55:39 PM
Author: musey

Date: 4/30/2009 5:57:29 PM

Author: Margot

...but his retort was in response to a horrid comment she made... and her behavior is something she COULD help...by keeping her mouth shut.


I took it as more of a ''this is how it feels when you say something like that to someone else.''

Yeah, we were just reading it differently. I took it more as ''make fun of my lifestyle choice? I''ll make fun of your face.'' Now I know that Strm''s situation is not a lifestyle choice, but most people would assume otherwise since that is not the norm.


AGAIN (and again), I''m not defending her terrible behavior, just making a case for true ''tit for tat,'' if that''s what one is going for. Maybe make fun of the cigarette in her hand, or her bad B.O., but her nose is something she was born with.


Or just ignore it. That''s what I do when people say I look ''dead'' because I''m so pale

, rather than come back with ''you look like a leather bag'' (which is still a more fair comparison, as my comeback is much more about a personal choice than the initial insult was - I can''t help the skin I was born with).


I never intended to get this in-depth about that one response, it just made me a little sad to see so much support for such a negative thing.

I get what you''re saying but she had no information about his lifestyle choices...so she was simply making fun of the way he looks.

I would agree with you that the majority of overweight people are overweight because of lifestyle choices. I know when I put on weight it''s because I''m eating out too much or don''t make it to the gym as often. However, for people who are truly obese, there''s usually more to the story (i.e., other health/ physical problems, psychological/ emotional problems)....so I think it''s particularly cruel to make fun of obese people.

I also don''t see the point of telling her she was rude...Do we really think that she didn''t know she was rude?

And telling her it was hurtful?...wasn''t that her point? I certainly wouldn''t give her that satisfaction.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 4/30/2009 8:23:19 PM
Author: lucyandroger

Date: 4/30/2009 6:55:39 PM

Author: musey

Date: 4/30/2009 5:57:29 PM


Author: Margot


...but his retort was in response to a horrid comment she made... and her behavior is something she COULD help...by keeping her mouth shut.



I took it as more of a ''this is how it feels when you say something like that to someone else.''

Yeah, we were just reading it differently. I took it more as ''make fun of my lifestyle choice? I''ll make fun of your face.'' Now I know that Strm''s situation is not a lifestyle choice, but most people would assume otherwise since that is not the norm.



AGAIN (and again), I''m not defending her terrible behavior, just making a case for true ''tit for tat,'' if that''s what one is going for. Maybe make fun of the cigarette in her hand, or her bad B.O., but her nose is something she was born with.



Or just ignore it. That''s what I do when people say I look ''dead'' because I''m so pale

, rather than come back with ''you look like a leather bag'' (which is still a more fair comparison, as my comeback is much more about a personal choice than the initial insult was - I can''t help the skin I was born with).



I never intended to get this in-depth about that one response, it just made me a little sad to see so much support for such a negative thing.

I get what you''re saying but she had no information about his lifestyle choices...so she was simply making fun of the way he looks.


I would agree with you that the majority of overweight people are overweight because of lifestyle choices. I know when I put on weight it''s because I''m eating out too much or don''t make it to the gym as often. However, for people who are truly obese, there''s usually more to the story (i.e., other health/ physical problems, psychological/ emotional problems)....so I think it''s particularly cruel to make fun of obese people.


I also don''t see the point of telling her she was rude...Do we really think that she didn''t know she was rude?

And telling her it was hurtful?...wasn''t that her point? I certainly wouldn''t give her that satisfaction.

Yes, she knew, but a lot of times calling someone out on something in public is embarrassing to them, they don''t expect people to call them out. They expect the insulted party to slink back and retreat.

And even if telling them that what they said was rude and out of line isn''t the most effective way to handle it, I DEFINITELY don''t agree that saying something equally as immature back is the best way of handling it. It''s awfully immature.

 

[Haven]

I like to look people directly in the eye and give them my *best* million dollar smile when they are purposely rude to me in public. And then I don''t look away at all. They usually shrink down into themselves and scurry away.

I like for them to know that I am so deliriously happy with my life that small, sad people cannot possibly have any effect on my mood whatsoever.

Saying something rude back would just bring me right down to their level of tacky, and there is no reasoning with crazy people, so telling them that they''re rude won''t do a darn thing.

It is unforgivable to insult others, and I''m sorry that happened to you, Storm.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 4/30/2009 8:38:56 PM
Author: Haven
I like to look people directly in the eye and give them my *best* million dollar smile when they are purposely rude to me in public. And then I don''t look away at all. They usually shrink down into themselves and scurry away.


I like for them to know that I am so deliriously happy with my life that small, sad people cannot possibly have any effect on my mood whatsoever.

Saying something rude back would just bring me right down to their level of tacky, and there is no reasoning with crazy people, so telling them that they''re rude won''t do a darn thing.


It is unforgivable to insult others, and I''m sorry that happened to you, Storm.

Well said, Haven. That is an excellent way to handle it.

 

[musey]

Ditte elle... lucyandroger, you''re not getting my point.

1. This woman was rude, inexcusably. We don''t even need to discuss what she did or didn''t know.

2. Strm''s form of retaliation was (arguably, I will concede) even more hurtful, because he chose to ridicule something that was very clearly not the result of a lifestyle choice.


Whether coming back with something even worse is fair play or not is absolutely none of my business, I was just pointing out that it was not an even exchange of insults from a completely uninformed (on their particular situations) outsider''s perspective.

Again, I never intended to get this in detail over one small comment, but since others are bringing it up I might as well explain what I was (and wasn''t) getting at. Regardless of the circumstances, ridiculing someone for something that is obviously beyond their control really crosses a line for me. In strm''s case, that woman''s comment actually falls into that category, but she didn''t know any better (still not okay, very very rude, but she was making fun of what was simply a lifestyle choice in her mind). Strm did ''know better'' in that area. That''s where I took issue, and that''s where my initial comment came from.

I wasn''t trying to chastise strm, I was just trying to passively bring up this ''tit for tat'' behavior, which in itself is troublesome, but this went into "titterificlyhorriblemeanmeanmean for tat" territory. Yes, she was the aggressor, but for me, that is beside the point.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/30/2009 8:38:56 PM
Author: Haven
I like to look people directly in the eye and give them my *best* million dollar smile when they are purposely rude to me in public. And then I don''t look away at all. They usually shrink down into themselves and scurry away.

I like for them to know that I am so deliriously happy with my life that small, sad people cannot possibly have any effect on my mood whatsoever.

Saying something rude back would just bring me right down to their level of tacky, and there is no reasoning with crazy people, so telling them that they''re rude won''t do a darn thing.

It is unforgivable to insult others, and I''m sorry that happened to you, Storm.

I would LOVE to witness that!!

 

[niccia]

Ditto Bliss. Well said.

 

[vintagecushion]

But people come in different sizes. Why shouldn''t the airlines accommodate that as much as they can? Along with a seat, I would hope one would also be paying to be treated with a modicum of courtesy, instead of being insulted by a probably badly trained employee with a measuring tape. It seems so much more reasonable to cut costs by weighing and measuring luggage.

 

[cara]

While Storm''s retort might have been a little childish, I don''t see how it was more hurtful than the original comment.

I also don''t think it''s fair to call being obese or overweight a "lifestyle choice". Even if you rule out all the obese people with medical, psychological, or genetic reasons contributing to their obesity, you still are left with a large number of people that did not consciously make a positive choice to be obese. Sure, they choose not to do the things one needs to do to lose weight - or they choose to do things that maintain their weight - but they rarely make a conscious choice to be obese. How many people do you know that actually like being obese?

Also - choice or not - obesity is a characteristic that is incredibly difficult to change. Musey making a distinction between the woman commenting on a person''s size and storm commenting on a person''s nose is really a splitting hairs distinction.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/30/2009 9:59:08 PM
Author: vintagecushion
But people come in different sizes. Why shouldn''t the airlines accommodate that as much as they can? Along with a seat, I would hope one would also be paying to be treated with a modicum of courtesy, instead of being insulted by a probably badly trained employee with a measuring tape. It seems so much more reasonable to cut costs by weighing and measuring luggage.

I could be wrong, but I don''t think that this is a way to cut costs or make extra money.

It''s their solution to the "spilling over" problem, which can either be solved by asking the small percentage of people that are a very large size (we''re not talking just plain overweight here) to purchase and use two seats instead of one, OR by refurbishing all their planes with wider seats (most likely causing them to cut at least one seat from every row). Which would you choose, as an airline?

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 4/30/2009 10:52:18 PM
Author: cara
While Storm''s retort might have been a little childish, I don''t see how it was more hurtful than the original comment.


I also don''t think it''s fair to call being obese or overweight a ''lifestyle choice''. Even if you rule out all the obese people with medical, psychological, or genetic reasons contributing to their obesity, you still are left with a large number of people that did not consciously make a positive choice to be obese. Sure, they choose not to do the things one needs to do to lose weight - or they choose to do things that maintain their weight - but they rarely make a conscious choice to be obese. How many people do you know that actually like being obese?


Also - choice or not - obesity is a characteristic that is incredibly difficult to change. Musey making a distinction between the woman commenting on a person''s size and storm commenting on a person''s nose is really a splitting hairs distinction.

Doesn''t that pretty much take away personal responsibility?

I don''t make a "conscious choice" to do a lot of things. But when I see how something I''m doing is negatively affecting my life, I CHOOSE to change it. Losing weight is not easy for anyone, but if you work hard enough, most people CAN lose weight. You have to recognize your own faults and correct them.

You have to analyze why you choose a specific behavior, conscious or not, and correct it. This applies to most things in life. You can look in the mirror, see that you''re fat, and make a choice. (Medical issues aside, of course)

 

[musey]

Date: 4/30/2009 10:52:18 PM
Author: cara
Also - choice or not - obesity is a characteristic that is incredibly difficult to change. Musey making a distinction between the woman commenting on a person's size and storm commenting on a person's nose is really a splitting hairs distinction.

Of course it is, which is why I kept saying that I never intended to say more on the subject than "that's something she can't really help." All else I said on the subject was clarifying why I said what I did, because people misinterpreted the intention behind it. For me, there is a big difference, but it's a personal sensitivity, not a universal one.

Which is, again, why I didn't say all that in the first place.

I also agree with elle's post above, as per usual...

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Bleeeeghh deleted again..actually going to stay out of this thread now...making me grumpy as well.

 

[cara]

Date: 4/30/2009 9:59:08 PM
Author: vintagecushion
But people come in different sizes. Why shouldn''t the airlines accommodate that as much as they can? Along with a seat, I would hope one would also be paying to be treated with a modicum of courtesy, instead of being insulted by a probably badly trained employee with a measuring tape. It seems so much more reasonable to cut costs by weighing and measuring luggage.

Not my luggage!!! NO!!!!

I am sick of the luggage fees and regulations

But seriously, the problem is about the last minute need to accommodate an extra large person WHO SPILLS OUT OF THEIR ALLOTTED SPACE into the space of the next paying customer. It''s not merely about cost savings on the part of the airline - its about ensuring the comfort of all passenger (large and seated next to large). Reseating and rearranging people at the last minute is a problem - and what do you do if the plane is full - and humiliating people is a problem too. The cost savings issue is more important from the customer''s perspective - clearly many large people fly economy even when a large seat is available for much, much more money in first or business class. Can''t blame them, except when they take up part of someone else''s seat in economy. If there is extra space on the flight, well there really is no problem then.

Oh, and didn''t Canada find that airlines needed to provide a free extra seat to people who were functionally disabled by their obesity? I can''t remember what the resolution was, except that the airlines were none too pleased in that they get to distinguish between people disabled by their obesity and non-disabled obese people and only charge the latter group for the extra seat they require.

 

[KimberlyH]

I was overweight, large enough that I would have occupied someone elses'' space on an airplane, but am no longer, and I would have felt obligated to purchase two seats so I wouldn''t infringe on anyone, and for my own comfort, when flying.

 

[strmrdr]

Since I am taking a beating here....
I commented on her nose because I refuse to comment on anything below the chin in a negative manner on any lady no matter how loosely that term may apply to them.
I am sick of it and will fire back.
It is about time that everyone stood up to rude people.

For those that showed support thanks :}
For those that feel I was wrong well that is tough because I am not sorry for giving her a taste of her own medicine.

 

[cara]

Date: 4/30/2009 10:57:36 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/30/2009 10:52:18 PM

Author: cara

While Storm''s retort might have been a little childish, I don''t see how it was more hurtful than the original comment.

I also don''t think it''s fair to call being obese or overweight a ''lifestyle choice''. Even if you rule out all the obese people with medical, psychological, or genetic reasons contributing to their obesity, you still are left with a large number of people that did not consciously make a positive choice to be obese. Sure, they choose not to do the things one needs to do to lose weight - or they choose to do things that maintain their weight - but they rarely make a conscious choice to be obese. How many people do you know that actually like being obese?

Also - choice or not - obesity is a characteristic that is incredibly difficult to change. Musey making a distinction between the woman commenting on a person''s size and storm commenting on a person''s nose is really a splitting hairs distinction.

Doesn''t that pretty much take away personal responsibility?

I don''t make a ''conscious choice'' to do a lot of things. But when I see how something I''m doing is negatively affecting my life, I CHOOSE to change it. Losing weight is not easy for anyone, but if you work hard enough, most people CAN lose weight. You have to recognize your own faults and correct them.

You have to analyze why you choose a specific behavior, conscious or not, and correct it. This applies to most things in life. You can look in the mirror, see that you''re fat, and make a choice. (Medical issues aside, of course)

In the context of this discussion (insulting people for being large) I don''t think it is fair to call obesity a ''lifestyle choice'' as people don''t usually actively choose to be obese.

And when the person in question is a stranger, then you have no idea what medical or other issues are contributing. I don''t think the assumption that their obesity is a lifestyle issue is warranted because you have no idea what that person''s lifestyle is.

And if you want to be strict, the woman could have had rhinoplasty but made a ''choice'' to keep the nose given to her by her parents - so she could certainly have changed it if she wanted to.

In the context of discussing healthy lifestyle or why a person has limited activities or what someone can do to improve their health or appearance, it might be useful to discuss the lifestyle choices that leave someone obese. Sure in that context I approve. But not in the ranking of insults based on personal appearance - in that context obesity is a fairly immutable attribute that people do not actively select.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 4/30/2009 8:38:56 PM
Author: Haven
I like to look people directly in the eye and give them my *best* million dollar smile when they are purposely rude to me in public. And then I don''t look away at all. They usually shrink down into themselves and scurry away.


I like for them to know that I am so deliriously happy with my life that small, sad people cannot possibly have any effect on my mood whatsoever.

Saying something rude back would just bring me right down to their level of tacky, and there is no reasoning with crazy people, so telling them that they''re rude won''t do a darn thing.


It is unforgivable to insult others, and I''m sorry that happened to you, Storm.

Ditto Haven - I couldn''t agree more on how to react to rude people

 

[vintagecushion]

Oh Cara and Musey, I know. It probably isn''t a very efficient way to save money, though if fuel costs get high enough it could help a little. I say this as a girl who loves to overpack and who is one of those "skeletons" that Strm mentioned

.

If''s only for extraordinarily large people, of course it''s not as bad. But it just bothers me that airlines make the seats so tiny and have such horrible service, not to mention appalling security and then this. It just feels like punishing people for not fitting into what we consider normal, and I''m not sure that an airline seat is the best measure of that.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 4/30/2009 12:05:30 PM
Author: steph72276

Date: 4/30/2009 11:34:19 AM

Author: Tacori E-ring

LtlFirecracker, that is pretty judgmental! I gained an insane amount of weight and I did not use pregnancy as an excuse to pig out 24/7. SOME women just gain a lot. I know there are many of us. We went on to have healthy children. Even still I could still fit in a seat. Obviously the majority of the extra weight was out not width.

AMEM, sister! I gained 55 pounds during pregnancy....my doctor said at least 15 pounds of it was because I was soooo very swollen (and also had very little movement due to being on bedrest for 3 ENTIRE MONTHS). Not all people that gain lots of weight during pregnancy do so because they go out on a pigfest, thank you!

I agree with both of you. My daughter gained 65 pounds with my first grandson. She was also on bed rest and was so swollen, she could hardly walk. The second one, she gained a lot of weight and could also hardly walk.

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/30/2009 10:52:18 PM
Author: cara
While Storm''s retort might have been a little childish, I don''t see how it was more hurtful than the original comment.


I also don''t think it''s fair to call being obese or overweight a ''lifestyle choice''. Even if you rule out all the obese people with medical, psychological, or genetic reasons contributing to their obesity, you still are left with a large number of people that did not consciously make a positive choice to be obese. Sure, they choose not to do the things one needs to do to lose weight - or they choose to do things that maintain their weight - but they rarely make a conscious choice to be obese. How many people do you know that actually like being obese?


Also - choice or not - obesity is a characteristic that is incredibly difficult to change. Musey making a distinction between the woman commenting on a person''s size and storm commenting on a person''s nose is really a splitting hairs distinction.

I agree totally with this post.

 

[Deelight]

Strm *mini threadjack* completly unrelated to the topic (which I won''t comment on) I had really bad fluid retention when travelling (especially in my feet) and I found this fantastic tea in Prague called silver monkey paw, I don''t know if you can get it in the US but it was fantastic fixed me right up and got rid of my excess fluid - after weeks of dealing with it . I don''t know if you can drink something like that but I know fluid retention sucks

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 4/30/2009 11:21:56 PM
Author: cara

Date: 4/30/2009 10:57:36 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/30/2009 10:52:18 PM

Author: cara

While Storm''s retort might have been a little childish, I don''t see how it was more hurtful than the original comment.

I also don''t think it''s fair to call being obese or overweight a ''lifestyle choice''. Even if you rule out all the obese people with medical, psychological, or genetic reasons contributing to their obesity, you still are left with a large number of people that did not consciously make a positive choice to be obese. Sure, they choose not to do the things one needs to do to lose weight - or they choose to do things that maintain their weight - but they rarely make a conscious choice to be obese. How many people do you know that actually like being obese?

Also - choice or not - obesity is a characteristic that is incredibly difficult to change. Musey making a distinction between the woman commenting on a person''s size and storm commenting on a person''s nose is really a splitting hairs distinction.

Doesn''t that pretty much take away personal responsibility?

I don''t make a ''conscious choice'' to do a lot of things. But when I see how something I''m doing is negatively affecting my life, I CHOOSE to change it. Losing weight is not easy for anyone, but if you work hard enough, most people CAN lose weight. You have to recognize your own faults and correct them.

You have to analyze why you choose a specific behavior, conscious or not, and correct it. This applies to most things in life. You can look in the mirror, see that you''re fat, and make a choice. (Medical issues aside, of course)

In the context of this discussion (insulting people for being large) I don''t think it is fair to call obesity a ''lifestyle choice'' as people don''t usually actively choose to be obese.

And when the person in question is a stranger, then you have no idea what medical or other issues are contributing. I don''t think the assumption that their obesity is a lifestyle issue is warranted because you have no idea what that person''s lifestyle is.

And if you want to be strict, the woman could have had rhinoplasty but made a ''choice'' to keep the nose given to her by her parents - so she could certainly have changed it if she wanted to.

In the context of discussing healthy lifestyle or why a person has limited activities or what someone can do to improve their health or appearance, it might be useful to discuss the lifestyle choices that leave someone obese. Sure in that context I approve. But not in the ranking of insults based on personal appearance - in that context obesity is a fairly immutable attribute that people do not actively select.

Ok, Cara, we''re on the same page. I never thought it was OK to insult anyone regardless. That''s just... wrong, wrong, wrong. I get your point, absolutely. Nose, fat, acne, big butt (ahem, me)... whatever. You should never make fun of someone else. EVER!

I just disagree with obesity not being a lifestyle choice. For most... it is. It doesn''t cost money to lose weight (Yes we could get into socio-economic factors that play into obesity, but I''m talking regular, middle class, otherwise healthy people without any sort of medical condition restricting them from losing weight). A nose job is a really expensive, painful procedure that with complications could potentially kill you. I would not put that in the same boat as choosing to take in fewer calories and exercise more. In fact, it makes you healthier.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 5/1/2009 8:51:14 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/30/2009 11:21:56 PM
Author: cara



In the context of this discussion (insulting people for being large) I don''t think it is fair to call obesity a ''lifestyle choice'' as people don''t usually actively choose to be obese.

And when the person in question is a stranger, then you have no idea what medical or other issues are contributing. I don''t think the assumption that their obesity is a lifestyle issue is warranted because you have no idea what that person''s lifestyle is.

And if you want to be strict, the woman could have had rhinoplasty but made a ''choice'' to keep the nose given to her by her parents - so she could certainly have changed it if she wanted to.

In the context of discussing healthy lifestyle or why a person has limited activities or what someone can do to improve their health or appearance, it might be useful to discuss the lifestyle choices that leave someone obese. Sure in that context I approve. But not in the ranking of insults based on personal appearance - in that context obesity is a fairly immutable attribute that people do not actively select.

Ok, Cara, we''re on the same page. I never thought it was OK to insult anyone regardless. That''s just... wrong, wrong, wrong. I get your point, absolutely. Nose, fat, acne, big butt (ahem, me)... whatever. You should never make fun of someone else. EVER!

I just disagree with obesity not being a lifestyle choice. For most... it is. It doesn''t cost money to lose weight (Yes we could get into socio-economic factors that play into obesity, but I''m talking regular, middle class, otherwise healthy people without any sort of medical condition restricting them from losing weight). A nose job is a really expensive, painful procedure that with complications could potentially kill you. I would not put that in the same boat as choosing to take in fewer calories and exercise more. In fact, it makes you healthier.

Ditto Cara.


Would you consider lung cancer a lifestyle choice? Afterall, the person could have stopped smoking.... And what about HIV/AIDS? Is that a lifestyle choice? No, the person may have made lifestyle choices that contributed to these things, but the actual result is not the lifestyle choice.

And it DOES cost money to lose weight...healthy food is expensive, joining a gym is expensive, seeking the guidance of a doctor is expensive, etc. And sure you want to take socio economic issues out of it, but the majority of obese people are poor...so I''m not sure how you can do that.

And like I said before, for people that are truly obese, there''s usually a lot more going on there besides needing to exercise more (health problems/ psychological/ emotional problems). I think it''s extremely insensitive of you to just assume that if these people ate less their problems would magically disappear.

Besides the fact that if someone is already obese and begins an exercise/ diet regimine, the weight is not going to come off quickly. It''ll probably take years of hard work. So here you are judging someone that could be living a healthier lifestyle than most thin people because of the way they look.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 5/1/2009 9:32:52 AM
Author: lucyandroger

Date: 5/1/2009 8:51:14 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/30/2009 11:21:56 PM
Author: cara




In the context of this discussion (insulting people for being large) I don''t think it is fair to call obesity a ''lifestyle choice'' as people don''t usually actively choose to be obese.

And when the person in question is a stranger, then you have no idea what medical or other issues are contributing. I don''t think the assumption that their obesity is a lifestyle issue is warranted because you have no idea what that person''s lifestyle is.

And if you want to be strict, the woman could have had rhinoplasty but made a ''choice'' to keep the nose given to her by her parents - so she could certainly have changed it if she wanted to.

In the context of discussing healthy lifestyle or why a person has limited activities or what someone can do to improve their health or appearance, it might be useful to discuss the lifestyle choices that leave someone obese. Sure in that context I approve. But not in the ranking of insults based on personal appearance - in that context obesity is a fairly immutable attribute that people do not actively select.

Ok, Cara, we''re on the same page. I never thought it was OK to insult anyone regardless. That''s just... wrong, wrong, wrong. I get your point, absolutely. Nose, fat, acne, big butt (ahem, me)... whatever. You should never make fun of someone else. EVER!

I just disagree with obesity not being a lifestyle choice. For most... it is. It doesn''t cost money to lose weight (Yes we could get into socio-economic factors that play into obesity, but I''m talking regular, middle class, otherwise healthy people without any sort of medical condition restricting them from losing weight). A nose job is a really expensive, painful procedure that with complications could potentially kill you. I would not put that in the same boat as choosing to take in fewer calories and exercise more. In fact, it makes you healthier.

Ditto Cara.


Would you consider lung cancer a lifestyle choice? Afterall, the person could have stopped smoking.... And what about HIV/AIDS? Is that a lifestyle choice? No, the person may have made lifestyle choices that contributed to these things, but the actual result is not the lifestyle choice.

And it DOES cost money to lose weight...healthy food is expensive, joining a gym is expensive, seeking the guidance of a doctor is expensive, etc. And sure you want to take socio economic issues out of it, but the majority of obese people are poor...so I''m not sure how you can do that.

And like I said before, for people that are truly obese, there''s usually a lot more going on there besides needing to exercise more (health problems/ psychological/ emotional problems). I think it''s extremely insensitive of you to just assume that if these people ate less their problems would magically disappear.

Besides the fact that if someone is already obese and begins an exercise/ diet regimine, the weight is not going to come off quickly. It''ll probably take years of hard work. So here you are judging someone that could be living a healthier lifestyle than most thin people because of the way they look.

So, you''re saying there''s nothing that obese people can do to rectify their situation? It''s all beyond their control? Sorry, don''t buy it. (Again, medical issues aside) And I''m sure people on here who are overweight and are trying to lose would be disheartened to hear that there''s nothing they can do.

Losing weight DOES take hard work, and that hard work is a CHOICE.

I''ve lost weight simply eating less and exercising more. I''ve never joined a gym. I''ve walked outside, been more active, and eaten less while tracking my calories. Those things were free to me. You can get a bag of frozen vegetables in the freezer section for a 1.50. Add a turkey sandwich, and you''re at the price of a value meal at McDonalds.

I''m not being insensitive at all. I''m not saying there are not emotional issues, believe me I''ve had my fair share of them. But when I realized my emotional issues were making me make bad choices, I changed it. We can change if we try. Sorry, I refuse to be a victim of my emotional problems. I worked it out without therapy also. So no, I didn''t have to pay for that.

I just don''t see how pretending you don''t have a choice helps anyone.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 5/1/2009 9:45:46 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 5/1/2009 9:32:52 AM
Author: lucyandroger

Date: 5/1/2009 8:51:14 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/30/2009 11:21:56 PM
Author: cara





In the context of this discussion (insulting people for being large) I don''t think it is fair to call obesity a ''lifestyle choice'' as people don''t usually actively choose to be obese.

And when the person in question is a stranger, then you have no idea what medical or other issues are contributing. I don''t think the assumption that their obesity is a lifestyle issue is warranted because you have no idea what that person''s lifestyle is.

And if you want to be strict, the woman could have had rhinoplasty but made a ''choice'' to keep the nose given to her by her parents - so she could certainly have changed it if she wanted to.

In the context of discussing healthy lifestyle or why a person has limited activities or what someone can do to improve their health or appearance, it might be useful to discuss the lifestyle choices that leave someone obese. Sure in that context I approve. But not in the ranking of insults based on personal appearance - in that context obesity is a fairly immutable attribute that people do not actively select.

Ok, Cara, we''re on the same page. I never thought it was OK to insult anyone regardless. That''s just... wrong, wrong, wrong. I get your point, absolutely. Nose, fat, acne, big butt (ahem, me)... whatever. You should never make fun of someone else. EVER!

I just disagree with obesity not being a lifestyle choice. For most... it is. It doesn''t cost money to lose weight (Yes we could get into socio-economic factors that play into obesity, but I''m talking regular, middle class, otherwise healthy people without any sort of medical condition restricting them from losing weight). A nose job is a really expensive, painful procedure that with complications could potentially kill you. I would not put that in the same boat as choosing to take in fewer calories and exercise more. In fact, it makes you healthier.

Ditto Cara.


Would you consider lung cancer a lifestyle choice? Afterall, the person could have stopped smoking.... And what about HIV/AIDS? Is that a lifestyle choice? No, the person may have made lifestyle choices that contributed to these things, but the actual result is not the lifestyle choice.

And it DOES cost money to lose weight...healthy food is expensive, joining a gym is expensive, seeking the guidance of a doctor is expensive, etc. And sure you want to take socio economic issues out of it, but the majority of obese people are poor...so I''m not sure how you can do that.

And like I said before, for people that are truly obese, there''s usually a lot more going on there besides needing to exercise more (health problems/ psychological/ emotional problems). I think it''s extremely insensitive of you to just assume that if these people ate less their problems would magically disappear.

Besides the fact that if someone is already obese and begins an exercise/ diet regimine, the weight is not going to come off quickly. It''ll probably take years of hard work. So here you are judging someone that could be living a healthier lifestyle than most thin people because of the way they look.

So, you''re saying there''s nothing that obese people can do to rectify their situation? It''s all beyond their control? Sorry, don''t buy it. (Again, medical issues aside) And I''m sure people on here who are overweight and are trying to lose would be disheartened to hear that there''s nothing they can do.

Losing weight DOES take hard work, and that hard work is a CHOICE.

I''ve lost weight simply eating less and exercising more. I''ve never joined a gym. I''ve walked outside, been more active, and eaten less while tracking my calories. Those things were free to me. You can get a bag of frozen vegetables in the freezer section for a 1.50. Add a turkey sandwich, and you''re at the price of a value meal at McDonalds.

I''m not being insensitive at all. I''m not saying there are not emotional issues, believe me I''ve had my fair share of them. But when I realized my emotional issues were making me make bad choices, I changed it. We can change if we try. Sorry, I refuse to be a victim of my emotional problems. I worked it out without therapy also. So no, I didn''t have to pay for that.

I just don''t see how pretending you don''t have a choice helps anyone.

ummm...I didn''t say ANYTHING like that. I really don''t have anything else to add since you didin''t address anything I actually said.

Except that I guess it''s great that you were able to lose weight and address your emotional problems without help. Some people do need help. I''m guessing you weren''t obese...oh, well...if you want to judge others for not being just like you then there''s nothing I can do about it.

Maybe I''ll just say it again and you''ll actually read it this time....even if your arguments are true, being obese is not the lifestyle choice...eating too much or not exercising would be the lifestyle choice. Obesity would be the result as in the lung cancer example. Okay, I''m done.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 5/1/2009 10:18:44 AM
Author: lucyandroger

Date: 5/1/2009 9:45:46 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 5/1/2009 9:32:52 AM
Author: lucyandroger

Date: 5/1/2009 8:51:14 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/30/2009 11:21:56 PM
Author: cara






In the context of this discussion (insulting people for being large) I don''t think it is fair to call obesity a ''lifestyle choice'' as people don''t usually actively choose to be obese.

And when the person in question is a stranger, then you have no idea what medical or other issues are contributing. I don''t think the assumption that their obesity is a lifestyle issue is warranted because you have no idea what that person''s lifestyle is.

And if you want to be strict, the woman could have had rhinoplasty but made a ''choice'' to keep the nose given to her by her parents - so she could certainly have changed it if she wanted to.

In the context of discussing healthy lifestyle or why a person has limited activities or what someone can do to improve their health or appearance, it might be useful to discuss the lifestyle choices that leave someone obese. Sure in that context I approve. But not in the ranking of insults based on personal appearance - in that context obesity is a fairly immutable attribute that people do not actively select.

Ok, Cara, we''re on the same page. I never thought it was OK to insult anyone regardless. That''s just... wrong, wrong, wrong. I get your point, absolutely. Nose, fat, acne, big butt (ahem, me)... whatever. You should never make fun of someone else. EVER!

I just disagree with obesity not being a lifestyle choice. For most... it is. It doesn''t cost money to lose weight (Yes we could get into socio-economic factors that play into obesity, but I''m talking regular, middle class, otherwise healthy people without any sort of medical condition restricting them from losing weight). A nose job is a really expensive, painful procedure that with complications could potentially kill you. I would not put that in the same boat as choosing to take in fewer calories and exercise more. In fact, it makes you healthier.

Ditto Cara.


Would you consider lung cancer a lifestyle choice? Afterall, the person could have stopped smoking.... And what about HIV/AIDS? Is that a lifestyle choice? No, the person may have made lifestyle choices that contributed to these things, but the actual result is not the lifestyle choice.

And it DOES cost money to lose weight...healthy food is expensive, joining a gym is expensive, seeking the guidance of a doctor is expensive, etc. And sure you want to take socio economic issues out of it, but the majority of obese people are poor...so I''m not sure how you can do that.

And like I said before, for people that are truly obese, there''s usually a lot more going on there besides needing to exercise more (health problems/ psychological/ emotional problems). I think it''s extremely insensitive of you to just assume that if these people ate less their problems would magically disappear.

Besides the fact that if someone is already obese and begins an exercise/ diet regimine, the weight is not going to come off quickly. It''ll probably take years of hard work. So here you are judging someone that could be living a healthier lifestyle than most thin people because of the way they look.

So, you''re saying there''s nothing that obese people can do to rectify their situation? It''s all beyond their control? Sorry, don''t buy it. (Again, medical issues aside) And I''m sure people on here who are overweight and are trying to lose would be disheartened to hear that there''s nothing they can do.

Losing weight DOES take hard work, and that hard work is a CHOICE.

I''ve lost weight simply eating less and exercising more. I''ve never joined a gym. I''ve walked outside, been more active, and eaten less while tracking my calories. Those things were free to me. You can get a bag of frozen vegetables in the freezer section for a 1.50. Add a turkey sandwich, and you''re at the price of a value meal at McDonalds.

I''m not being insensitive at all. I''m not saying there are not emotional issues, believe me I''ve had my fair share of them. But when I realized my emotional issues were making me make bad choices, I changed it. We can change if we try. Sorry, I refuse to be a victim of my emotional problems. I worked it out without therapy also. So no, I didn''t have to pay for that.

I just don''t see how pretending you don''t have a choice helps anyone.

ummm...I didn''t say ANYTHING like that. I really don''t have anything else to add since you didin''t address anything I actually said.

Except that I guess it''s great that you were able to lose weight and address your emotional problems without help. Some people do need help. I''m guessing you weren''t obese...oh, well...if you want to judge others for not being just like you then there''s nothing I can do about it.

Maybe I''ll just say it again and you''ll actually read it this time....even if your arguments are true, being obese is not the lifestyle choice...eating too much or not exercising would be the lifestyle choice. Obesity would be the result as in the lung cancer example. Okay, I''m done.

Ok, well, I''m trying to discuss this, the sarcasm and attitude is not necessary. I wasn''t being mean at all to you, and please stop accusing me of judging people. I did not judge anyone.

I addressed several points of yours, including the emotional aspects of change, as well as financially affording weightloss. My point was, if I can do it, anyone can do it. I didn''t say there''s anything wrong with being fat, if that is how you''re happy. If you want to change it, you probably can, as most people are in a situation to do so.

I don''t know why saying that you can make an effort to change is judging. If anything, I think it''s good to hear. I see every day on the HL thread that people are working hard and losing weight, and it''s inspiring.

If you''re doing the "Last word, I''m out" thing, that''s fine. I guess I can be done too.

 

[lucyandroger]

Okay, Elle...I apologize for my sarcasm..definitely uncalled for but I really took offense to what I saw as you putting words in my mouth. I definitely think people can make an effort to change and LOTS of people lose weight and get into a healthier lifestyle.

I was just saying that there is more to the issue a lot of times. That''s great that you could do it and I''m sure you''re an inspiration to other people struggling with weight around you. However, everyone is different...obesity is a real problem in America and I think if we''re going to address it we need to do more than say buck up and exercise.

One of my close friends is working to make it so that farmer''s markets will accept food stamps so that poor people have access to fresh fruits and veggies. One of my other friends is working on legislation to help protect physical education in schools that are poorly funded.

Anyway, I don''t think that telling someone who is obese to just exercise and eat less works. You have to treat the root of the problem...therapists can be helpful to some, even if you didn''t need one yourself.