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Overweight? Buy an extra seat

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My understanding was the policy effects passengers who need 2 seatbelt extenders. That''s not chubby or hippy, that''s a very large person.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:07:10 PM
Author: suchende
My understanding was the policy effects passengers who need 2 seatbelt extenders. That''s not chubby or hippy, that''s a very large person.
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She just mentioned to me about the armrest thing. Not sure about the seatbelt extenders.
 
Glad to hear I wasn''t dreaming again while the news was on... (I''ve had some crazy dreams b/c of falling asleep with the tv on.
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)

I think if they are going to start doing this, then the above things mentioned are the best "rule of thumb"... NOT by weight. I would liek to think that if you can put the arm rests down, and can fit a belt, then how exactly ARE you bothering me?

Deco''s comment about hips leads me to believe that this is a 1. AND 2. rule. There are many situations where having difficulty with one OR the other could be because of a far different circumstance than weight.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 3:20:17 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
fiery - I think some airlines, like Southwest, have been doing this for a while.

While I can totally sympathize with the fact that this would be humiliating and uncomfortable for the person in question who has to buy the extra seat, I think it is a policy that was made by considering everyone else on the plane as well. As someone who has been squeezed uncomfortable into a seat next to someone who was taking up their own seat and more than half of mine, I have to say, I think the policy makes good sense.

Would it be better if airlines made larger seats to accommodate the growing American population? Possibly. Its that likely to happen? Not really. And unless it does, it seems to me that in the interests of fairness to all passengers, all of whom paid for a seat on this airplane, and all of whom are therefore entitled to that seat (without being expected to share it unexpectedly).
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I agree.
 
Okay, maybe I was exaggerating a TEENY bit when I said some pregnant women double their weight....But, I have two cousins who each weigh under a hundred pounds. During all of their pregnancies they''ve gained at minimum 60 pounds and its all in the mid section (and I''d bet nearly impossible to fit into the seat). I guess my point it, pregnancy is different than just overweight.

Other random thoughts while reading the post...

My mom is super skinny, should she get an option to buy half a seat? (obviously not, purely based on safety, but I think these questions will become arguments against the "extra" fee)

I agree with musey that it simply cannot be a weight issue, but a measurement issue. An athletically built woman will weigh more than a chunky woman. A tall woman will weigh more than a short woman. It''ll have to be based on height and measurements, IMO, to be a fair matter.

Another thought, body builder men would weigh a lot more than an averagely built man. Will he pay extra for his bulk? For that matter, his shoulders are probably much wider than his rump and if his shoulders were sitting next to my boobs, it wouldn''t matter how big the seats were, we''d all topple over.

I''m on the Make Bigger Seats side. I guess I''ll be flying first class to avoid the issue all together.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:02:23 PM
Author: meresal
I read the first 6 ot 7 replies and then scrolled down... sorry if I repeat...

I heard that the maximum size is measured by two factors...
1. If the arm rests won''t go down on each side
(AND/OR?? I''m not sure if it''s both or either)
2. If after adding the extender belt, you still cannot close your belt

Just something I heard on the news one night, I think. Anyone else hear this?
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I heard that as well. Quite frankly, if you can''t buckle the belt with the extender, how does buying a seat next to you help? Are you supposed to join the seat belts or something? Or ?

As a size 6, I don''t have a ton of room in the seat either on either side of my hips... so the seats def seem to be smaller...I refuse to think my butt is bigger hahaa.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:06:42 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/29/2009 4:04:00 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS


Yeah, I''ve heard this. I used to watch that show on A&E I think it was the reality show about airlines..and they used to show people trying to fly on Southwest affected by this. The tears, etc. And yes they did weigh the people at times if I remember correctly. Most of the time they seemed to go by the seat-belt extender rule...but it also was by the arm rests.
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Blah. Weighing people does no one any good. 150 lbs on someone who is 4''8'' is going to fit differently than 150 lbs on someone who is 5''10'' Unless they''re standing by with a BMI Chart?
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Measuring inches is the only way to be able to decide if someone fits or not.
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Maybe they''ll start adding this to our Rapid Rewards account numbers
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Ohh, I just had a horrible thought. What if they started a black list. You could be unable to even purchase 1 ticket on that airline without being flagged for being overweight on your last trip.
 
If the rule is about being respectful of other passengers, then if the plane isn''t full, should the larger person still have to pay?

Ditto Deco... shoulders are annoying too! My hubby has very wide gorilla shoulders and I have "childbearing" hips, so when we fly next to one another we fit together like a jigsaw puzzle.
 
I have to say that I whole-heartedly agree with this policy after a recent experience, although I do hope that it is handled with tact and compassion. DH and I recently boarded a flight that would be about 5 hours en route to vacation. When we arrived at our row, we saw that the window seat passenger was already seated. This man was extremely obese and I am not exaggerating when I say he was sitting in his seat and over half of mine. Now, I am an extremely petite person, but there is no way I could fit in that half seat and no way I would have been able to put on my seatbelt since it was buried halfway under this man. Now, DH and I do not like to embarass anyone, and since he did not say anything or attempt to move over (not that he could have), we just sat down as best we could (me basically on top of DH). If I had been traveling alone and seated next to a stranger I have no idea what I would have done. Luckily, a flight attendant came by and was able to find us two seats togeter in another row, so this passenger got his own row. However, what would have been done if this was a full flight? I do agree that if you can''t fit in the seat or are afraid it may be close, you should buy the second seat ahead of time, but what about people who are in denial and just show up? I think that it is perfectly reasonable that if you can''t fit in the seat and didn''t purchase a second seat ahead of time, that the flight attendant discreetly ask you to purchase another seat and if the plane is full and there is no other seat, you may have to wait for another flight if you are preventing another passenger from fully occupying their seat. Yes, airplane seats are very small, and my 6''4" DH is very uncomfortable in them, but it is what it is and someone cannot be allowed to incroach on another person''s seat.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:14:43 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
If the rule is about being respectful of other passengers, then if the plane isn''t full, should the larger person still have to pay?

Ditto Deco... shoulders are annoying too! My hubby has very wide gorilla shoulders and I have ''childbearing'' hips, so when we fly next to one another we fit together like a jigsaw puzzle.
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I''m trying to do research on this. If the plane isn''t full and there is a way to get the overweight person to sit somewhere next to an empty seat then that is what they should do. They could even charge a fee just for doing this. I don''t think its fair to charge for a whole extra seat (unless of course you fit into two seats in which case you probably should have done that yourself ahead of time and expect it). I''m wondering now if they''ll charge the same that you purchased your ticket for or charge the current fare. Last minute ticket fare can be really expensive.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:07:10 PM
Author: suchende
My understanding was the policy effects passengers who need 2 seatbelt extenders. That''s not chubby or hippy, that''s a very large person.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. I''ve seen some very large people who could still fasten the seat belt (with an extender) and get both arm rests down, so it seems to me (although I would like to see numbers on this to be sure) that the affected portion of the population must be pretty small here. I think that ideally the airlines would analyze the average weight of Americans (for American airlines, obviously), and also the top of the healthy weight spectrum, and take a number somewhere in between there and construct the planes with that size person in mind. Obviously, this is unlikely, but in the meantime, it seems like policies such as this are likely to affect only a very small fraction of the population.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:14:20 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 4/29/2009 4:06:42 PM
Author: elledizzy5


Date: 4/29/2009 4:04:00 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS


Yeah, I''ve heard this. I used to watch that show on A&E I think it was the reality show about airlines..and they used to show people trying to fly on Southwest affected by this. The tears, etc. And yes they did weigh the people at times if I remember correctly. Most of the time they seemed to go by the seat-belt extender rule...but it also was by the arm rests.
Click to expand...
Blah. Weighing people does no one any good. 150 lbs on someone who is 4''8'' is going to fit differently than 150 lbs on someone who is 5''10'' Unless they''re standing by with a BMI Chart?
20.gif


Measuring inches is the only way to be able to decide if someone fits or not.
Click to expand...
Maybe they''ll start adding this to our Rapid Rewards account numbers
3.gif
.

Ohh, I just had a horrible thought. What if they started a black list. You could be unable to even purchase 1 ticket on that airline without being flagged for being overweight on your last trip.
Click to expand...
LOL. Oh gosh.

Then maybe we could get discounts if we drop a couple pounds?
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I''d lose weight to save money on air fare!
 
I''m a size 18, and honestly, I''m somewhat uncomfortable in an airline seat - those suckers are small. While I don''t think it''s right that people are increasingly obese and I''m working very hard to my own weight, I think it''s disgusting for the airlines to insist on 1950''s sized seats when the population as a whole is larger. Even if a person DOES purchase two seats, they''re still going to be insanely uncomfortable with their rear stuck in a seat that is too small for the entire flight. Why should a customer pay for the comfort of other passengers (because this is what it boils down to, IMO)? Isn''t it the responsibility of the business to ensure that its customers are comfortable? I don''t understand is why the airline doesn''t create larger seats in an area of the plane and are available to people who are larger, pregnant, have special needs, etc. Charge a small premium if need be if the flight is full.

I do think that humiliating a person by telling them they need to move/de-board the plane is unnecessary - there should be something in place to make sure that the large person isn''t put in that situation. Has anyone seen Tyler Perry''s "Why Did I Get Married?" - I cried while watching the scene where this happened to one of the characters. It was heartbreaking.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:14:43 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
If the rule is about being respectful of other passengers, then if the plane isn't full, should the larger person still have to pay?
Click to expand...

IMO-no. I actually am not opposed to this assuming that the person must buy 2 seats if they cannot put down the armrest and/or they cannot fit with the extender belt because this also is affecting the person(s) next to them-and having been squished on more than one flight because of this-I don't think it's a bad thing. I see where people against this are coming from-but if I also paid full price for my ticket-I deserve my whole seat. Which I don't get if the person next to me must put up the armrests to fit themselves in.

BUT I think it should stop there. Not a weight limit thing. A simple can you or can you not fit thing. And if there is room to accommodate that person on the plane otherwise then there is no need to charge for the extra seat.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:21:42 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Date: 4/29/2009 4:07:10 PM
Author: suchende
My understanding was the policy effects passengers who need 2 seatbelt extenders. That's not chubby or hippy, that's a very large person.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree. I've seen some very large people who could still fasten the seat belt (with an extender) and get both arm rests down, so it seems to me (although I would like to see numbers on this to be sure) that the affected portion of the population must be pretty small here. I think that ideally the airlines would analyze the average weight of Americans (for American airlines, obviously), and also the top of the healthy weight spectrum, and take a number somewhere in between there and construct the planes with that size person in mind. Obviously, this is unlikely, but in the meantime, it seems like policies such as this are likely to affect only a very small fraction of the population.
Click to expand...
That's a great idea, eta: especially taking into account the healthy weight spectrum (since the average American IS overweight, but whether or not that's the airline's "problem" is certainly up for discussion).

To whether seats have gotten smaller... aren't most airplanes quite old? Like 15+ years? Just sayin'...
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I love Virgin America. All their planes are new, seats are comfy (I can fit my purse on my seat next to me!!)... yay VA.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:13:43 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Okay, maybe I was exaggerating a TEENY bit when I said some pregnant women double their weight....But, I have two cousins who each weigh under a hundred pounds. During all of their pregnancies they''ve gained at minimum 60 pounds and its all in the mid section (and I''d bet nearly impossible to fit into the seat). I guess my point it, pregnancy is different than just overweight.

Other random thoughts while reading the post...

My mom is super skinny, should she get an option to buy half a seat? (obviously not, purely based on safety, but I think these questions will become arguments against the ''extra'' fee)

I agree with musey that it simply cannot be a weight issue, but a measurement issue. An athletically built woman will weigh more than a chunky woman. A tall woman will weigh more than a short woman. It''ll have to be based on height and measurements, IMO, to be a fair matter.

Another thought, body builder men would weigh a lot more than an averagely built man. Will he pay extra for his bulk? For that matter, his shoulders are probably much wider than his rump and if his shoulders were sitting next to my boobs, it wouldn''t matter how big the seats were, we''d all topple over.

I''m on the Make Bigger Seats side. I guess I''ll be flying first class to avoid the issue all together.
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I''m sure they had some bloat in legs, and arms, and face too. But at 160 pounds give or take, I''m going to guess that your lady friends are still a lot smaller than 50% of the average commercial airline passengers...
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:25:33 PM
Author: musey

Date: 4/29/2009 4:21:42 PM
Author: AmberGretchen

Date: 4/29/2009 4:07:10 PM
Author: suchende
My understanding was the policy effects passengers who need 2 seatbelt extenders. That''s not chubby or hippy, that''s a very large person.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree. I''ve seen some very large people who could still fasten the seat belt (with an extender) and get both arm rests down, so it seems to me (although I would like to see numbers on this to be sure) that the affected portion of the population must be pretty small here. I think that ideally the airlines would analyze the average weight of Americans (for American airlines, obviously), and also the top of the healthy weight spectrum, and take a number somewhere in between there and construct the planes with that size person in mind. Obviously, this is unlikely, but in the meantime, it seems like policies such as this are likely to affect only a very small fraction of the population.
Click to expand...
That''s a great idea.

To whether seats have gotten smaller... aren''t most airplanes quite old? Like 15+ years? Just sayin''...
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I love Virgin America. All their planes are new, seats are comfy (I can fit my purse on my seat next to me!!)... yay VA.
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I''m def on your wavelength Musey.
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It is a conspiracy...they are spending a fortune on creating exact replicas* of the older planes but with seats 1/3 smaller! How cunning....

(*complete with icky seat stains and wonky food trays)
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:33:30 PM
Author: Steel
Date: 4/29/2009 4:25:33 PM
Author: musey
To whether seats have gotten smaller... aren''t most airplanes quite old? Like 15+ years? Just sayin''...
2.gif
Click to expand...
I''m def on your wavelength Musey.
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It is a conspiracy...they are spending a fortune on creating exact replicas* of the older planes but with seats 1/3 smaller! How cunning....

(*complete with icky seat stains and wonky food trays)
Click to expand...
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yessss, yesssssss.... the plans are falling into place perrrrfectly.....
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I know they refurb some planes periodically, and that some airlines have replaces some of their seats to maximize seating capacity, but still...
 
if they make planes with bigger seats just to accomodate larger passengers its just making it ok to be obese..
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:41:47 PM
Author: Lynny0780
if they make planes with bigger seats just to accomodate larger passengers its just making it ok to be obese..
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I think the Big Mac Value Meal makes it OK to be obese.
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Bigger seats would be nice simply because we''re bigger people now, including taller. I''m tall for a woman, and many are taller than me, and it''s TOUGH to fit comfortably in those seats! I can barely cross my legs. I think bigger seats would make everyone more comfortable, period.

But... that''s not likely to happen. Dang.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:25:33 PM
Author: musey
Date: 4/29/2009 4:21:42 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
I tend to agree. I''ve seen some very large people who could still fasten the seat belt (with an extender) and get both arm rests down, so it seems to me (although I would like to see numbers on this to be sure) that the affected portion of the population must be pretty small here. I think that ideally the airlines would analyze the average weight of Americans (for American airlines, obviously), and also the top of the healthy weight spectrum, and take a number somewhere in between there and construct the planes with that size person in mind. Obviously, this is unlikely, but in the meantime, it seems like policies such as this are likely to affect only a very small fraction of the population.
Click to expand...
That''s a great idea, eta: especially taking into account the healthy weight spectrum (since the average American IS overweight, but whether or not that''s the airline''s ''problem'' is certainly up for discussion).
Click to expand...
I realized that I was quoting that out of nowhere, so here''s what the CDC says about the average American''s size:

Measured average height, weight, and waist circumference for adults ages 20 years and over

Men:
Height (inches): 69.3 (5'' 8.4")
Weight (pounds): 190
Waist circumference (inches): 39.0

Women:
Height (inches): 63.8 (5'' 3.6")
Weight (pounds): 163
Waist circumference (inches): 36.5

So "average" in the US is in fact "overweight" (borderline "high risk") on the BMI chart for both men AND women.
 
They''re not going to make bigger seats any time soon. Airlines are retiring planes because of the cost. The only way for airlines to make money is to sell a lot of seats. And in order to sell seats, you need to have lots of them.

I think from now on I''m going to petition to fly business for all of my trips
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Date: 4/29/2009 4:45:03 PM
Author: musey

I realized that I was quoting that out of nowhere, so here''s what the CDC says about the average American''s size:

Measured average height, weight, and waist circumference for adults ages 20 years and over

Men:
Height (inches): 69.3 (5'' 8.4'')
Weight (pounds): 190
Waist circumference (inches): 39.0

Women:
Height (inches): 63.8 (5'' 3.6'')
Weight (pounds): 163
Waist circumference (inches): 36.5

So ''average'' in the US is in fact ''overweight'' (borderline ''high risk'') on the BMI chart for both men AND women.
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Those statistics are shocking.
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and if they have bigger seats that means prices will go up for everyone.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:41:47 PM
Author: Lynny0780
if they make planes with bigger seats just to accomodate larger passengers its just making it ok to be obese..
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This can be argued for a lot of things, the least of which being airplane seats, in my very humble opinion
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But yes, I see your point.
 
Date: 4/29/2009 4:47:14 PM
Author: Lynny0780
and if they have bigger seats that means prices will go up for everyone.
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Yep.

I suppose we could look at it the same way as paying for a checked bag. Not everyone checks bags, so the option to pay less if you don''t have one is fair, in my opinion. Sucks for those that always choose to check a bag. Some people truly have no choice, and HAVE to check a bag. It is what it is.

Likewise, not everyone chooses to be overweight, not everyone who is overweight chooses to be so, but it is what it is.
 
If anything...the policy will raise awarness.

I''m overweight. Can''t do anything about it until after July 13th. But there are a lot of people that are content being unhealthy and overweight. While it isn''t anyone''s business how they choose to live their lives, perhaps things like this will be the wakeup call they need to realize that living an unhealthy lifestyle isn''t ideal.

I''ll let everyone know how it goes for me on Friday
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