okay...to settle the colorless vs the near colorless topic...

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/28/2006 10:39:27 PM
Author: teagreen


Your pie scenario is equal to my no-resale/upgrade scenario - swap one thing for the other, all things equal except for color. Once you add the option of getting cash or a larger size, color is no longer the only thing you''re considering!!!

No, it''s not equal, because it doesn''t factor in the rarity/status/privileged component. Unless lemon pie is somehow less available, or unless lemon pie is considered the pinnacle of taste, there is NO difference between keeping either dessert.

Not the same with a D diamond and an H diamond. Those who keep the D are like those who have the original picasso instead of the knockoff....it represents status and privilege.

Forget it, though......too weary to make this point over and over and over.

 

[leeenie]

Date: 3/28/2006 10:40:13 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 3/28/2006 10:33:52 PM
Author: teagreen

But they now have a 2 carat D that is worth something. They can get CASH for its value, cash for the difference in value with a lower color stone, or a LARGER stone. Money is not taken out of the equation in this scenario, even if there is no initial out-of-pocket outlay.

I don''t think people who prefer lower color grades because they are of better economic value literally have no money in their bank accounts to get anything higher than what they get. It''s because they perceive a certain value in different stones and would rather trade color for either size or more money.

By disallowing resale or upgrade for another stone of the same value, you take money out of the equation - which I thought was the whole point of the initial question.

The point isn''t to take money out of the equation. The point is to eliminate it as a BARRIER to getting the D.

Those who want a D can have it. Money doesn''t prevent them from having it. That''s the entire sum point.

Regarding the rest, yes, I agree that people perceive value. But that''s not what DF was suggesting. He was suggesting that if money were NO object, everyone would want a D.

Well, if you give everyone a D, money isn''t the OBJECT....the OBSTACLE.....to having what they truly want.

The point isn''t to remove the VALUE of money......it''s to remove money as an obstacle. Everyone who wants a D can have one, and only those who don''t VALUE a D will get rid of it.

I thought that was the point - take money out of the equation - not to remove money as an "obstacle". Like I said above, I don''t think it''s ever a barrier. How many people do you think got a lower color grade because they couldn''t afford to buy a D? I think most people who bought a lower color did so because it was a better value for their money - costs less or they got a bigger stone. As confirmed by Dancing Fire above, that was the point of the initial question.

Everyone here could have afforded a D stone, just at a different size than what they have, or by spending more money (except those who buy with debt and couldn''t "afford" a diamond in the first place).

I understand the difference between "money as value" and "money as an obstacle." I think "money as value" is the more relevant issue.

Yes, you can''t get rid of the status and privilege factor - in any case - that''s a given. I thought we established that several posts ago.

 

[aljdewey]

As I said, it's beyond me how to make it any clearer. You're missing the essence, so let's just agree to disagree.

On a side note, I'm now convinced from this circular discussion that you must be related to DF. This is eerily like the I/O thread.

 

[belle]

Date: 3/28/2006 10:48:03 PM
Author: teagreen

Everyone here could have afforded a D stone, just at a different size than what they have

wrong.
wrong wrong wrong wrong.

you''re way off base here. i''m not even going to make myself crazy(ier!) trying to explain this to you. alj has been doing a bang up job and it doesn''t seem to be working. i have a ''g'' colored stone because i WANTED a ''g'' colored stone. i have no desire for a ''d''
though, i do have a desire for lemon pie!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/28/2006 10:48:03 PM
Author: teagreen

Everyone here could have afforded a D stone, just at a different size than what they have, or by spending more money

Spending money doesn't necessarily equal "affording" it. Some people spend when they cannot afford it....and that's a poor option.

What you're missing.....DF didn't ask "do you prefer size over color". (Another thread did, but that wasn't the point here.) By DF's example, he tried to take size out of the equation by making both stones the same size. All your statement above gets to is this: Which is more important, size or color? Some people who would choose size over color would still aesthetically prefer a D, so that's NOT it.

This isn't about size. vs. color, or savings vs. color, or any similar animal. DF is suggesting that if everyone could have a D (without it crippling them, without settling for a .15 chip, without having to sacrifice other real needs), they would all choose the D over the H. Perhaps, but that doesn't mean it's their AESTHETIC choice.

AESTHETIC choice would be everyone can have one if they want it (without having to sacrifice size or eat bread only for the next 20 years.)

Anyway, that's it. Can't keep trying to make this clearer. It either takes or it doesn't.

 

[Mara]

LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

HAHHAHAHA - Mara, thanks! I needed that.

I'm a chocolate cream pie lover myself. MMMMMMMMMMMMM

But I'm sure someone's gonna tell me why lemon pie is THE ONLY pie that discriminating people eat. *sigh*

Anyone got a copy of PieCalc for me?

Maybe that would know.

 

[leeenie]

Date: 3/28/2006 10:54:55 PM
Author: aljdewey
As I said, it''s beyond me how to make it any clearer. You''re missing the essence, so let''s just agree to disagree.

On a side note, I''m now convinced from this circular discussion that you must be related to DF. This is eerily like the I/O thread.

Likewise, I think you''re missing the essence. But I can''t resist trying one more time.

We don''t disagree on what your scenario will answer. I agree that your question answers "do people not get Ds because they can''t afford it?"

We disagree on what we think the original question was supposed to be. Given what I think it is, I think my scenario answers that and I don''t hear any counterarguments (other than the status factor that you can''t get rid of in any case - including yours). I already stated why I think my scenario is more relevant (most people don''t get lower color grades because they simply cannot afford a D - it''s a matter of value).

You can get a FREE D in BOTH cases. That was what DF said initially. Then people said they would rather resell it for $ or trade it in for a bigger stone, and that''s why they would pick the D, not because they liked it - proving that value enters the equation for peoples'' choices, not just color. So I framed the question as not having the option to resell. You''re still getting a free D and there is NO OBSTACLE to getting one. If your question is "is not being able to afford a D the reason people don''t get them (not because they don''t like them aesthetically)?", my scenario will answer that. But like I said, that wasn''t the original question. The original question was "do people not get Ds because they don''t think they''re good value (rather than not liking them aesthetically)?" - which my scenario answers and yours doesn''t (which you agree on).

You''re right that this thread is about "AESTHETIC choice." If people have the option to resell/trade in, it is no longer only about aesthetic choice.

I feel the same way you do - that the other just doesn''t get it.

What is the I/O thread?

 

[Mara]

Well.......I've seen a lemon pie.....in pictures...!!

It LOOKS good to me!

 

[leeenie]

Date: 3/28/2006 10:57:25 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 10:48:03 PM
Author: teagreen

Everyone here could have afforded a D stone, just at a different size than what they have

wrong.
wrong wrong wrong wrong.

you''re way off base here. i''m not even going to make myself crazy(ier!) trying to explain this to you. alj has been doing a bang up job and it doesn''t seem to be working. i have a ''g'' colored stone because i WANTED a ''g'' colored stone. i have no desire for a ''d''
though, i do have a desire for lemon pie!

Huh? I don''t see any contradiction. I didn''t say you wanted a D stone. I said you could have afforded one (assuming you could afford what you got) - just in a different size. For example, if you bought a G stone for 10,000, you could have bought a D stone for 10,000 (just with different specs).

I never said anyone really wanted a D stone but got another color instead.

 

[aljdewey]

Yes, but did it fit the wire frame for what a true lemon pie should look like?

What was the angle on the bottom of the pie anyway? That''s critical, yanno.

 

[decodelighted]

BEANIE BABIES. PIE. BROWNIES. TAYLOR HICKS.

*tilt*

Me no want keep/wear/own "D" - no way, no how. Me would sell "D"s all day long to people who want ''em though.

 

[belle]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

i like lemon pie too! how could anyone NOT like lemon pie? if you could choose between a FREE strawberry shortcake or lemon pie, everyone would pick lemon pie! it''s better than anything else!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:16:38 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

i like lemon pie too! how could anyone NOT like lemon pie? if you could choose between a FREE strawberry shortcake or lemon pie, everyone would pick lemon pie! it's better than anything else!

If the lemon pie had a crust angle that wasn't relational to it's bottom layer.....well, I'd have to reject that pie.

And what if that lemon pie had a Mrs. Smith's crust, which is clearly inferior to Pie Guy's crust? Then the lemon isn't looking so good anymore, is it, MISSY?

It's tough to explain the inherent value of pie.

 

[Mara]

The lemon pie has YAW!!!!!!!

Oh but I'd still eat it. And the strawberry shortcake too. I mean, if it's free.

 

[belle]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:18:31 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 3/28/2006 11:16:38 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

i like lemon pie too! how could anyone NOT like lemon pie? if you could choose between a FREE strawberry shortcake or lemon pie, everyone would pick lemon pie! it''s better than anything else!

If the lemon pie had a crust angle that wasn''t relational to it''s bottom layer.....well, I''d have to reject that pie.

It''s tough to explain the inherent value of pie.

you''d have to reject it without even actually tasting it? how do you know so much about pies?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:19:52 PM
Author: Mara
The lemon pie has YAW!!!!!!!

Not really. That only happens when the lattice is laid down east-west instead of north-south.

Of course, none of this applies if the filling leaks. Then, it''s definitely inferior. Regardless.

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:20:25 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:18:31 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 3/28/2006 11:16:38 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

i like lemon pie too! how could anyone NOT like lemon pie? if you could choose between a FREE strawberry shortcake or lemon pie, everyone would pick lemon pie! it''s better than anything else!

If the lemon pie had a crust angle that wasn''t relational to it''s bottom layer.....well, I''d have to reject that pie.

It''s tough to explain the inherent value of pie.

you''d have to reject it without even actually tasting it? how do you know so much about pies?

Are you serious? I have seen TONS of pie pictures, that''s how!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:16:38 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

i like lemon pie too! how could anyone NOT like lemon pie? if you could choose between a FREE strawberry shortcake or lemon pie, everyone would pick lemon pie! it''s better than anything else!

I completely agree! It''s so clear that Lemon Pie is both more attractive and also tastier. I also believe that Lemon Pie retains some kind of mystical power over anyone who consumes it. Everyone else thinks so too! I know them all!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:19:52 PM
Author: Mara
The lemon pie has YAW!!!!!!!

Oh but I'd still eat it. And the strawberry shortcake too. I mean, if it's free.

ROTFLMAO!

But you can't HAVE both! You can only have ONE!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:21:42 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/28/2006 11:16:38 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

i like lemon pie too! how could anyone NOT like lemon pie? if you could choose between a FREE strawberry shortcake or lemon pie, everyone would pick lemon pie! it's better than anything else!

I completely agree! It's so clear that Lemon Pie is both more attractive and also tastier. I also believe that Lemon Pie retains some kind of mystical power over anyone who consumes it. Everyone else thinks so too! I know them all!

Deco, I love ya, gal! You're right on! We're sending out your secret decoder ring now! You're ring-worthy! absolutely!

Oh, and it comes with a free slice of PIE! Which kind would you like?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:21:34 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 3/28/2006 11:20:25 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:18:31 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 3/28/2006 11:16:38 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

i like lemon pie too! how could anyone NOT like lemon pie? if you could choose between a FREE strawberry shortcake or lemon pie, everyone would pick lemon pie! it''s better than anything else!

If the lemon pie had a crust angle that wasn''t relational to it''s bottom layer.....well, I''d have to reject that pie.

It''s tough to explain the inherent value of pie.

you''d have to reject it without even actually tasting it? how do you know so much about pies?

Are you serious? I have seen TONS of pie pictures, that''s how!

Yep - Mara can tell how they''re gonna taste just from looking at them in the baker''s case.

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:24:06 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 3/28/2006 11:21:42 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/28/2006 11:16:38 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

i like lemon pie too! how could anyone NOT like lemon pie? if you could choose between a FREE strawberry shortcake or lemon pie, everyone would pick lemon pie! it's better than anything else!

I completely agree! It's so clear that Lemon Pie is both more attractive and also tastier. I also believe that Lemon Pie retains some kind of mystical power over anyone who consumes it. Everyone else thinks so too! I know them all!

Deco, I love ya, gal! You're right on! We're sending out your secret decoder ring now! You're ring-worthy! absolutely!

Oh, and it comes with a free slice of PIE! Which kind would you like?

DON'T even think about giving her my LEMON PIE. I mean it's mystical and all.

She can have....like apple pie or something.

It LOOKS just as good!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:24:06 PM
Author: aljdewey
Which kind would you like?

You must be kidding! LEMON of COURSE!

 

[belle]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:26:02 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 3/28/2006 11:21:34 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 3/28/2006 11:20:25 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:18:31 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 3/28/2006 11:16:38 PM
Author: belle

Date: 3/28/2006 11:06:20 PM
Author: Mara
LEMON PIE! LEMON PIE!!

i like lemon pie too! how could anyone NOT like lemon pie? if you could choose between a FREE strawberry shortcake or lemon pie, everyone would pick lemon pie! it''s better than anything else!

If the lemon pie had a crust angle that wasn''t relational to it''s bottom layer.....well, I''d have to reject that pie.

It''s tough to explain the inherent value of pie.

you''d have to reject it without even actually tasting it? how do you know so much about pies?

Are you serious? I have seen TONS of pie pictures, that''s how!

Yep - Mara can tell how they''re gonna taste just from looking at them in the baker''s case.

wow...
she must be the pie authority. no one should ever buy a pie without asking her to look at the pie pictures first.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:26:28 PM
Author: Mara
DON''T even think about giving her my LEMON PIE. I mean it''s mystical and all.
She can have....like apple pie or something.

It LOOKS just as good!

HA! I accept no substitutes. Are you implying I''m not worthy of LEMON PIE?

You think I could be fooled into gorging myself on that pedestrian APPLE dreck?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:31:55 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/28/2006 11:26:28 PM
Author: Mara
DON''T even think about giving her my LEMON PIE. I mean it''s mystical and all.
She can have....like apple pie or something.

It LOOKS just as good!

HA! I accept no substitutes. Are you implying I''m not worthy of LEMON PIE?

You think I could be fooled into gorging myself on that pedestrian APPLE dreck?

No, I''m implying that you don''t reeeeeeeeeeeally want lemon pie, that you don''t really prefer lemon pie. You just want lemon because it''s regarded as the pinnacle of pies.

If it were less chic, you wouldn''t be caught DEAD eating lemon pie. IMPOSTER!

 

[Mara]

OH...maybe I don't want lemon pie after all.

I think I'm more of a strawberry shortcake person.......it looks better in my belly.

PSYCH. I still want lemon pie!!!!!!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/28/2006 11:33:51 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 3/28/2006 11:31:55 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/28/2006 11:26:28 PM
Author: Mara
DON''T even think about giving her my LEMON PIE. I mean it''s mystical and all.
She can have....like apple pie or something.

It LOOKS just as good!

HA! I accept no substitutes. Are you implying I''m not worthy of LEMON PIE?

You think I could be fooled into gorging myself on that pedestrian APPLE dreck?

No, I''m implying that you don''t reeeeeeeeeeeally want lemon pie, that you don''t really prefer lemon pie. You just want lemon because it''s regarded as the pinnacle of pies.If it were less chic, you wouldn''t be caught DEAD eating lemon pie. IMPOSTER!

Wellllllll. I AM allergic to lemon extract. And it does create full body seizures, lack of fluid control and enormous pus-filled welts over 90% of my body. But ... the mystical thing??? Hit me with the LEMON, Sista!

 

[Daniel B]

I just tried the best pie of my life yesterday...ok, let me explain it (gramma's recipe) it was pistashio pie filling (made by jello) with Kiwi slices on top with cool whip and sliced almonds on top in a grahm cracker crust, it reminds me of summer but DAMN was it good!--you guys should try it