NEED Help to see if diamond purchase is good for d/fl/3x diamond

[lucida]

You may even find, as many of us here have, that you have a hankering for old cuts (or newly cut old cuts). In which case, there will still be plenty of pricescopers here to help you find beautiful old/new-old cut stones.

I'm super glad you bolted out the door on hearing that high pressure tactic. Buy this stone in the next 3 minutes or else! Egad.

Yes thank you!

 

[lucida]

I understand not wanting to be scammed but who is more likely to be scamming you - the company who provides you all the documentation around light performance, how it's measured and how their product stacks up or the seller who says "here is the best you've ever seen, but you have to buy it now or you'll miss out on this great deal I'm giving you".
The companies recommended here provide objective measurement of their products' performance using industry standard equipment so you can safely compare and know exactly what you're getting. They won't tell you it's the best of the best or puff it up, just tell you it is what it is.
Do what ringo suggested - find some branded cut dealers and just go looking. Don't plan to buy but just look and work out what your eyes like. That's part of it too, not just the paper specifications.
Good luck! This is a fun thing to do, treating yourself to a super pretty thing. I hope you enjoy it.

Yes, I need to do some more research and thinking so that I'm comfortable with this purchase. This is the biggest purchase of my life and I'd hate to see something similar at a much cheaper price. Yes, with what I know now, which is still nothing compared to you professionals, but I feel like i have the tools now to further see what I like more and what i will be spending. This has been such a big lesson for me...

 

[bmfang]

Can you see if there are any "hearts on fire" dealers near you. Leave your wallet at home and go see some of their stones in a range of colors - but not necessarily a D and an H next to each other D-E, G-H, heck even I or J. See what a great cut does to break the light into little blinding beams of joy.

Definitely leave your wallet at home at a HoF dealer @lucida! And try your best not to laugh when they tell you the prices.

Whilst not quite the same price as the purchase you are willing to make, let me tell you about a recent purchase I made.

As a rough guide, here in Australia, I paid about AUD2,800 (incl of taxes and import fees) for a pair of diamond studs in 18kt white gold for my wife from Brian Gavin diamonds (each stone was 0.33ct I VVS2, so total carat weight of 0.667 carats). If I had bought my wife's studs in platinum from BGD, that would have cost me about another AUD150.

Given that HoF dealers do not discount, a pair of HoF diamond studs that have 0.6 total carat weight in 18kt white gold and the diamonds are I-J in colour at VS1-SI1 clarity (note: they can't even tell me exactly what colour and clarity grade I'll get unlike a purchase from BGD. Or Whiteflash. Or CBI. Or Good Old Gold. Or James Allen. Or Blue Nile.) The price? AUD3,990. Approximately 42% more than through BGD and I'm more likely to get J SI1 stones in the HoF stud set than I VS1 stones.

Over at Tiffany's, for my ~AUD2,800, I can't even buy a pair of their largest diamond solitaire stud earrings as that costs AUD2,850 for a pair of platinum studs with a total carat weight of ... ... ... 0.31 carats (so 15 pointers on each ear). And no information about the grading of the diamonds that Tiffany use in their studs.

Now you tell me who is being "ripped off"? A person purchasing through an online vendor recommended by many Pricescopers or a person who buys at a branded retail store/dealer (e.g. HoF, Tiffany & Co., HW, etc).

 

[lucida]

Definitely leave your wallet at home at a HoF dealer @lucida! And try your best not to laugh when they tell you the prices.

Whilst not quite the same price as the purchase you are willing to make, let me tell you about a recent purchase I made.

As a rough guide, here in Australia, I paid about AUD2,800 (incl of taxes and import fees) for a pair of diamond studs in 18kt white gold for my wife from Brian Gavin diamonds (each stone was 0.33ct I VVS2, so total carat weight of 0.667 carats). If I had bought my wife's studs in platinum from BGD, that would have cost me about another AUD150.

Given that HoF dealers do not discount, a pair of HoF diamond studs that have 0.6 total carat weight in 18kt white gold and the diamonds are I-J in colour at VS1-SI1 clarity (note: they can't even tell me exactly what colour and clarity grade I'll get unlike a purchase from BGD. Or Whiteflash. Or CBI. Or Good Old Gold. Or James Allen. Or Blue Nile.) The price? AUD3,990. Approximately 42% more than through BGD and I'm more likely to get J SI1 stones in the HoF stud set than I VS1 stones.

Over at Tiffany's, for my ~AUD2,800, I can't even buy a pair of their largest diamond solitaire stud earrings as that costs AUD2,850 for a pair of platinum studs with a total carat weight of ... ... ... 0.31 carats (so 15 pointers on each ear). And no information about the grading of the diamonds that Tiffany use in their studs.

Now you tell me who is being "ripped off"? A person purchasing through an online vendor recommended by many Pricescopers or a person who buys at a branded retail store/dealer (e.g. HoF, Tiffany & Co., HW, etc).

Well, what an interesting story Yeah, you have to be so careful. This is such a difficult purchase to make the longer I think about it

 

[lucida]

One of the online sellers I was looking at contacted me regarding the following diamond. The HCA score is 1.4 and from what I can tell, it's really comparable to the Whiteflash 3.115ct. I have no idea in price though as they're asking me to make an offer. Would this in the same elite cut category as the Whiteflash diamond? I'm learning little by little. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

 

[LLJsmom]

This looks like a nicely cut stone. Whether it is up to par with an ACA, I cannot tell. What I do think is very weird is that they are asking you to make an offer. I feel kinda uncomfortable with that. I wonder how others feel...

 

[bmfang]

The CA is a little bit higher than I would like (preferably under 35) however this does score well on HCA.

Computer generated ASET looks good. It is definitely not quite up to the same cut precision levels as WF but it is a solid H&A stone. The computer generated ASET is showing a misalignment of one of the arrow shafts at 12 o'clock. Would be best if there were actual images of the stone. Interestingly, this stone has been on the market potentially since 2012 going by the date of the AGS grading report.

I've found this stone listed on a couple of online stores (Adiamor and Eternity by Yoni) and both vendors are asking around the 55k mark. What you want to pay is up to you but similarly sized stones with G VS1 specs and not super ideal are around that mark. If you are wanting best of the best cut wise, the extra $8k for the Whiteflash stone is worth it.

 

[ac117]

I'd have to respectfully disagree with some posters above and say that I don't think I'd pay an extra $8k for a WF stone over the one you just posted. I don't think you'd notice such a dramatic difference in performance as a result of the one slightly imperfect arrow. Just my opinion though!

However, if you do plan on upgrading, the WF stone may be worth it since their upgrade policy is so flexible and truly hard to beat!

 

[whitewave]

Stick with whiteflash. Brian Gavin or high performance diamonds. Please.

I'm mentally exhaused from the sales tactic of this place.., make an offer? Used car salesman.

 

[whitewave]

Also, consider this... you may not want to upgrade. Maybe you want to change stone shape. Several things might happen where you don't want to spend 100% or sell at a loss

 

[gm89uk]

I'd have to respectfully disagree with some posters above and say that I don't think I'd pay an extra $8k for a WF stone over the one you just posted. I don't think you'd notice such a dramatic difference in performance as a result of the one slightly imperfect arrow. Just my opinion though!

However, if you do plan on upgrading, the WF stone may be worth it since their upgrade policy is so flexible and truly hard to beat!

I agree with this. I highly doubt you'll notice the difference between ACA and this (judging by the computerised images).

 

[whitewave]

I posted my thoughts before I saw the latest stone.

 

[bmfang]

I'd have to respectfully disagree with some posters above and say that I don't think I'd pay an extra $8k for a WF stone over the one you just posted. I don't think you'd notice such a dramatic difference in performance as a result of the one slightly imperfect arrow. Just my opinion though!

However, if you do plan on upgrading, the WF stone may be worth it since their upgrade policy is so flexible and truly hard to beat!

The only reason why I said what I said was that lucida seems to have indicated in previous posts in this thread that she is looking for best quality. Hence the reason why she wanted to go with a FL/IF stone initially (until we all talked her out of it )

This stone is likely to be similar in cut quality as stones with Ideal optics at James Allen. And there is nothing wrong with that. The difference is that with this stone, the guesswork is taken out of it with the ASET on the AGS report. The trade off with the WF stone is that this stone is cleaner based off the plot (VS1 vs VS2), the WF stone is 10 points larger than this one and that this one is a slightly less precise AGS000 Ideal than the WF stone.

Whether lucida feels that it is worth the extra $8k is up to them. If budget was my priority, totally agree with ac117 and gm89uk that this stone is solid and I'd choose it over the WF stone. It all comes down to what priorities the OP has.

I am curious as to why this stone appears to have been languishing in inventory for so long. I'd want to see an actual photo of the stone however. The ASET looks solid but I can't help thinking that there might be something about the stone visually IRL that has led to it sitting there. OR, the stone has been traded in and the vendor hasn't bothered to send in the stone back to AGS to verify that the stone hasn't been chipped and that the proportions are still the same.

 

[LLJsmom]

I can tell the difference between WF ACA and other well cut GIA 3x, or non ACA. It's not something I can tell right off the bat. I have to stare and examine the stone on and off for days and months at a time. Over time I know I would want a precision cut stone. At a passing glance I probably would not be able to tell. So I think it's very individual. I just have this gut feeling that lucida OVER TIME, may find some darkness that will bother her. I may be wrong.

 

[gm89uk]

I can tell the difference between WF ACA and other well cut GIA 3x, or non ACA. It's not something I can tell right off the bat. I have to stare and examine the stone on and off for days and months at a time. Over time I know I would want a precision cut stone. At a passing glance I probably would not be able to tell. So I think it's very individual. I just have this gut feeling that lucida OVER TIME, may find some darkness that will bother her. I may be wrong.

I think is a spectrum of top end GIA 3x AGS0. Selecting carefully there will little to no visible difference to an ACA or a superideal in my opinion

 

[ringo865]

I think is a spectrum of top end GIA 3x AGS0. Selecting carefully there will little to no visible difference to an ACA or a superideal in my opinion

If there has been no intermediate damage since the AGS report issued.

 

[LLJsmom]

I think is a spectrum of top end GIA 3x AGS0. Selecting carefully there will little to no visible difference to an ACA or a superideal in my opinion

gm89uk. People vary...

 

[lucida]

If there has been no intermediate damage since the AGS report issued.

I can ask the seller if there's any damage, although it would be apparent to an jeweler.

 

[gm89uk]

If there has been no intermediate damage since the AGS report issued.

Absolutely, I was speaking more vaguely but with that particular stone certain things need to be clarified as bmfang has alluded to.

gm89uk. People vary...

Yes that's true, but there isn't a sudden steep step up to ACA from the very finest ideal cuts. Not speaking specifically about this stone, some AGS000 and GIA XXX will be very difficult to differentiate from a specifically cut superideal without a loup. ACA/superideal brands ensures the homework is out of your hands but with patience and thoroughness, you can save considerable $. Just as GIAXXX are on a spectrum, AGS000 are also on a spectrum (although a tighter one).

With this carat weight, the brand reassurance and upgradeability options are only the OP can decide whether it is worth the extra $8k

 

[lucida]

The only reason why I said what I said was that lucida seems to have indicated in previous posts in this thread that she is looking for best quality. Hence the reason why she wanted to go with a FL/IF stone initially (until we all talked her out of it )

This stone is likely to be similar in cut quality as stones with Ideal optics at James Allen. And there is nothing wrong with that. The difference is that with this stone, the guesswork is taken out of it with the ASET on the AGS report. The trade off with the WF stone is that this stone is cleaner based off the plot (VS1 vs VS2), the WF stone is 10 points larger than this one and that this one is a slightly less precise AGS000 Ideal than the WF stone.

Whether lucida feels that it is worth the extra $8k is up to them. If budget was my priority, totally agree with ac117 and gm89uk that this stone is solid and I'd choose it over the WF stone. It all comes down to what priorities the OP has.

I am curious as to why this stone appears to have been languishing in inventory for so long. I'd want to see an actual photo of the stone however. The ASET looks solid but I can't help thinking that there might be something about the stone visually IRL that has led to it sitting there. OR, the stone has been traded in and the vendor hasn't bothered to send in the stone back to AGS to verify that the stone hasn't been chipped and that the proportions are still the same.

Thanks for your comment and thanks to everyone for talking me out of getting GIA xxx.
Can you pls clarify what you mean by "slightly less precise AGS000 Ideal than the WF stone?"

Also I have no idea what the price is. They are waiting for me to make an offer and I'm hesitant. Would it be too much to ask to see that it be sent back to AGS to verify all of this and I'll pay that few hundred dollars to reverify this information? They have over 2500 items in their online store, so they aren't a small company from what I can tell.
So, comparing this one and the WF one, other than the obvious carat difference and clarity difference (vs1 versus vs1), would you say that they are both cut the same (absolute ideal)? Is the WF still better? I realize I for sure can't tell the difference by just looking at it.

With all this said, how can I make an offer on this? I searched their online store and this isn't there either. I can't make a blind offer but I'll have to start real low. What do you professionals suggest I do? They are a professional seller and I don't know if they're trying to make a quick sale and give me a good deal (although this doesn't exist), or they're trying to make a lot of money. I'm in the dark...

 

[gm89uk]

I'm honestly not sure about this make me an offer business.
They already have a bottom price in mind. I suppose they may be hoping you start high then they make more money, and if you start too low, they won't sell below $x, either way it is not to give you a great deal that they are offering you the 'chance to make an offer'. I find it an irritating and unprofessional sales tactic.

I would insist on re-reporting prior to this purchase. Possibly agree in writing to stick with the same price agreed (when agreed) if all is well, or a price reduction/refund if not all is well with the new report.

 

[lucida]

Absolutely, I was speaking more vaguely but with that particular stone certain things need to be clarified as bmfang has alluded to.

Yes that's true, but there isn't a sudden steep step up to ACA from the very finest ideal cuts. Not speaking specifically about this stone, some AGS000 and GIA XXX will be very difficult to differentiate from a specifically cut superideal without a loup. ACA/superideal brands ensures the homework is out of your hands but with patience and thoroughness, you can save considerable $. Just as GIAXXX are on a spectrum, AGS000 are also on a spectrum (although a tighter one).

With this carat weight, the brand reassurance and upgradeability options are only the OP can decide whether it is worth the extra $8k

Thanks for your suggestion. I was wondering where the $8k came from? If I understand correctly, it's worth paying $8k less than the WF diamond?

 

[lucida]

I'm honestly not sure about this make me an offer business.
They already have a bottom price in mind. I suppose they may be hoping you start high then they make more money, and if you start too low, they won't sell below $x, either way it is not to give you a great deal that they are offering you the 'chance to make an offer'. I find it an irritating and unprofessional sales tactic.

I would insist on re-reporting prior to this purchase. Possibly agree in writing to stick with the same price agreed (when agreed) if all is well, or a price reduction/refund if not all is well with the new report.

Yes I agree. That's why it's 2 days and i haven't responded because I am not sure where to start with the pricing.

 

[bmfang]

Thanks for your comment and thanks to everyone for talking me out of getting GIA xxx.
Can you pls clarify what you mean by "slightly less precise AGS000 Ideal than the WF stone?"

Also I have no idea what the price is. They are waiting for me to make an offer and I'm hesitant. Would it be too much to ask to see that it be sent back to AGS to verify all of this and I'll pay that few hundred dollars to reverify this information? They have over 2500 items in their online store, so they aren't a small company from what I can tell.
So, comparing this one and the WF one, other than the obvious carat difference and clarity difference (vs1 versus vs1), would you say that they are both cut the same (absolute ideal)? Is the WF still better? I realize I for sure can't tell the difference by just looking at it.

Re: slightly less precise, the stone you provided the report to is cut well. In fact, much better than a lot of other stones out there on the market. In fact, this one could have made James Allen True Heart in my books. But it isn't as precisely cut as the Whiteflash ACA stones are. For one, this stone does not fall within the specifications for ACA status based on proportions (see https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/ for the ACA specs). It's probably closer to a WF Expert Selection stone than an ACA (and the Expert Selection range is solid and good value buying, there is ).

Re: the "make me an offer" - can I be so bold as to ask who this vendor is @lucida? Because it isn't Adiamor going by what you've said. Getting AGS to re-grade the stone and issue a new report with a 2017 date will not cost a lot of cash. I would ask the vendor for a magnified photograph of the actual diamond. If this is a second hand stone, I would low-ball first with a price of at least 40% off the Adiamor list price (https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond/D23012440) and then work my way up from there.

 

[lucida]

Re: slightly less precise, the stone you provided the report to is cut well. In fact, much better than a lot of other stones out there on the market. In fact, this one could have made James Allen True Heart in my books. But it isn't as precisely cut as the Whiteflash ACA stones are. For one, this stone does not fall within the specifications for ACA status based on proportions (see https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/ for the ACA specs). It's probably closer to a WF Expert Selection stone than an ACA (and the Expert Selection range is solid and good value buying, there is ).

Re: the "make me an offer" - can I be so bold as to ask who this vendor is @lucida? Because it isn't Adiamor going by what you've said. Getting AGS to re-grade the stone and issue a new report with a 2017 date will not cost a lot of cash. I would ask the vendor for a magnified photograph of the actual diamond. If this is a second hand stone, I would low-ball first with a price of at least 40% off the Adiamor list price (https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond/D23012440) and then work my way up from there.

I see. So it's good that it is such a well cut diamond. if it's substantially less than the WF I'll consider it, but if they are a few thousand off, I'd rather go with WF especially since it's guaranteed the ACA cut and that lifetime upgrade I could possibly use down the road.
I don't have any issue disclosing the seller from Ebay (Amore Diamonds: http://www.ebay.com/usr/amorediamonds) I just hope no one from here beats me to it
What do you think? I really want a bargain. I am so hesitant at paying $61k for a 3k diamond that may be absolutely ideally cut, but G/VS2. So would you suggest I offer something like $25k or $30k? They also know that I had $55k from before this transaction when I was looking for a d/if/3x diamond a few months ago. So that may have damaged the negotiation situation...

 

[whitewave]

I thought amore diamonds arent natural earth mined?

Lab created diamonds are marketed as natural because they are made in a lab through natural processes.

You want a natural EARTH MINED diamond.

 

[lucida]

I thought amore diamonds arent natural earth mined?

Lab created diamonds are marketed as natural because they are made in a lab through natural processes.

You want a natural EARTH MINED diamond.

What??? This is the first time I'm hearing of this... but this diamond is earth mined, is it not? Now I'm really getting confused... who can I trust? This diamond industry is so scary. I trust the sites that the PS suggested, even though they are priced high. I never thought of it the way you described it. I steer clear of anything enhanced. Now I'll be paying attention to this too...

 

[Dancing Fire]

I can ask the seller if there's any damage, although it would be apparent to an jeweler.

Any pics of the hearts?

 

[whitewave]

I'm trying to figure it out now.

Maybe I am confusing them with amora gem?

 

[whitewave]

"Himmatramka is also an enthusiastic supporter of lab-created gemstones: Do Amore offers diamonds, sapphires and moissanite made in labs, which comprise about 30 percent of gemstone sales. “If a customer wants a stone that’s 15 or 20 million years old, that’s one thing, but lab-created stones are just as good—if not better—and more cost-effective. We love lab-created stones,” he says."

https://www.houstoniamag.com/articl...ants-to-shake-up-the-engagement-ring-industry