Need help on selecting Princess Cut

[ac75]

Hi all, I've been lurking here a while and have learned alot. I am in the process of buying a 1 carat diamond ring for my wife.

I've done a ton of looking and alot of research for a Princess cut. I've read to go w/at least a good-very good cut, I-G, SI2 - VS2, depth 56-84, table 53-85??

Here's what I'm looking at.

1. 1.0, I1/I, EGL, Ideal/Ex cut, D 71.5/T 70% $1480
2. 1.0, SI2/I, EGL, Fair cut, D 71.5/T 82% $1620
3. 1.0, SI2/I, EGL, good cut, D 69.3/T 77% $1820

Now, I'm just a guy who has been researching numbers so I really have no clue how this rock would look. Can you guys give me opinions?

#2 is listed as "fair", but it falls w/in what I've read is a good cut so I'm confused.

My absolute max is $2000 w/setting so #3 is cutting it but I could probably donate blood...

TIA

 

[ibdrinken]

I would have them pull them and first off see if they are eye clean then get some actally images scopes/aset and what not so we can see if they and where they may inclusions. I just bought my complete ring for 2600 out the door and its a princess cut H color, VVS2 clarity and its .75 just to give an idea.

 

[ac75]

Thank you. That's pretty much all I can rely on now since they are all online.

It's 2 different stores. I was going to call them and ask them to look at it over the phone w/me. Both stores have good reviews though....

 

[slg47]

2 has a really large table. I think your depth/table ranges are too wide, you can't go just by those numbers but I would look for maybe 69-76% depth, 60-72% table but these are just guidelines, the solasfera princess cuts are well cut and have smaller tables,

Also you would want to check that those are eye-clean to your requirements.

Does the site offer pictures or ASET images? I would want to buy from a site that has pictures, it is very hard to tell from just the numbers. If you are open to other websites post your budget and specs and we can try to find something.

 

[tyty333]

You need images. Almost impossible to buy a fancy cut stone without images/pictures. There is no telling what you are going
to get.

BTW ...we usually look for table to be less than depth.

 

[AnneinGA]

ac - here's what worries me. They're all EGL stones. An SI2 or I1 clarity on all and an I color could really translate to a similar GIA stone as an I2 J color. Is your budget around $1K?

 

[Amys Bling]

AC- I have to agree with Anne . If you are looking at SI2 I1 clarity stones with EGL certificates, you may be getting I1-I2-I3 clarity stones if they were regraded by GIA. Same with color. You have to figure that EGL stones maybe be 1-2 grades lower in color than stated. This is becuase GIA has stricter standards, and EGL is looser. This is why EGL stones are less expensive than a GIA stone graded the same color and clarity.


If you don't mind sharing your stone budget- people here can help you find a stone that meets your needs.

 

[Amys Bling]

Sorry- just saw that your budget is 2,000.

OK- so what is more important to you/your WF...

size?
or color/clarity/cut?


Cut is what makes the diamond sparkly. Most people say that if you do one thing, it's to get a very good-ideal cut stone so that it sparkles like mad. as for color, that is personal opinion. I have an eyeclean SI2- meaning it's graded SI2 but I cannot see anything in it without a loupe.

Color- color shows more in fancy shapes, so in a princess a J will have yellow/tint than a round brillant J. Also- a better cut diamond will show less color....

so a poorly cut J princess will look a lot more tinted than an ideal-excellent cut J princess...

 

[Amys Bling]

Out of the options you listed, I would be curious about #1... I1 grade...is it eye clean? is being eye clean important to you?
I would tend to go with the better cut and it will be more sparkly....hide color better... and be more impressive- IMHO.

I would shy away from the fair cut stone- my fear is that it would be a dud- no sparkle...no life to it.

#3 is not bad, my concern is that it will stress your budget...and with the "good" cut, the ideal might out perform it in terms of sparkle and impressing the eye.

 

[ac75]

Thank you everyone for your replies!!

None of the diamonds I'm looking at have pictures. 2 are from Abazias, 1 is from Solomon Brothers. I've read good reviews from both sites, that what is stated is what you've gotten. I was planning on at least calling Solomon Bros and asking their opinion on how the stone looked, and if they had anything else.

I understand EGL is looser than GIA/AGS, but I cannot afford over $2k. I've hinted to my wife about getting a round cut, and how that would be able to get us a better stone for the price, but she really prefers the princess.

We've seen alot of I2s at the stores (in our price range), from I-K in color. We've seen some really bad stones. We saw 1 I2/I w/a nice cut, but still too many inclusions in the table and it was $3k.

I guess some inclusions are ok, as long as they are are not in the table, and for the most part eye clean. So maybe an I1, but preferably an SI2.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd gladly take a look. I'm very new to this. I definitely want to get her a 1ct. I'm trying to stay around $1500ish for the best stone I can find, plus another $300 for the setting. I would try to stretch it another $200 if it was worth it. I know it's a small budget, but I think I can find something online....

 

[AnneinGA]

OK, ac, let me try to prioritize before we all go look.
Carat is your most important "c". Must be 1 carat.
Clarity is second, but you're open to inclusions.
Cut is important, but not terribly.
Color is the loosest requirement, as you've seen K's that you are OK with. I am curious were those K's rated by EGL or GIA or were they rated at all?

A couple of thoughts. Setting the bar at 1 carat leaving cut behind will get you a stone that weighs in at the right mark, but may appear to the eye as much smaller because the cut isn't good. I know your budget is $1500 but in a cursory search, the quality you'll get at 1 carat for $1500 is just not all that great.

Go to some of the vendors here to look at quality stones. Here is a link to a search at GOG: http://goodoldgold.com/diamondResul...n=&dateMax=&inHouse=&resultsColumns=268435471

I want to help you find a great stone for your budget. And others do too.

 

[Amys Bling]

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2525944.htm

Not 1 ct, this is the biggest stone you can get from whiteflash- even with dropping color down and clarity down.
no idea how the cut is on that princess, you would have to call whiteflash and ask for an ASET image to determine if the cut is a dud. GIA doesn't grade cut- so the grade you see there isn't actually on cut quality. Only way yu can tell how a non AGS princess is cut is from ASET images.


nothing in the good old gold inventory at 1ct for under 1,500.... the only stone they have under 1,500 are these two- the first one may actually not be under 1,500.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7370/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7336/



within your budget at james allen- this is the closest you can get to 1 carat..... .89 carat
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-VVS2-Good-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1337456.asp
also- the K color will really show, you can see it in the pics. Also the cut is "good"

better cut and color than the K stone listed above... but only .87 carats
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1174382.asp



This stone is as close to 1 carat ad you can get a BlueNile within yuor budget. .80 J Very Good VS2
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?filter_id=0&track=head#diamonds_pid=LD01757754

solomon brothers- seem to have 1ct options- but the cut, color, clarity, are going to be lower in order to meet your budget and carat.
has a lot of EGL so keep in mind that color and clarity will be 1-2 grades lower in each.

 

[Amys Bling]

find out about pictures, ASET images.... and eye-clean/where and what kind of inclusions there are.

solomon brothers....
Princess 1.000 I I1 Very Good 71.50 70.00 EGL $1,288
Princess 1.020 K Si2 Very Good 78.79 71.00 EGL $1,535
Princess 1.000 L Vs2 Excellent 68.40 73.00 EGL $1,562


I would lean towards getting a better cut stone as it will be sparklier and hide color better..... Keep in mind that the I will be J-K, the K will be L-M, and the L will be M-N.

 

[Amys Bling]

more solomon brothers..... again you need aset to determine the cut quality. The numbers alone wont tell you the cut quality. The cut will factor into how much tint shows.

Princess 1.000 J Si2 Good 69.00 78.00 EGL $1,287 View
Princess 1.000 M Vs1 Good 76.20 64.00 GIA $1,292 View
Princess 1.020 J Vs2 Good 71.20 79.00 EGL $1,484 View
Princess 1.010 J Si1 Good 69.00 76.00 EGL $1,518 View
Princess 1.010 J Vs1 Good 74.59 70.00 EGL $1,518

 

[Amys Bling]

abazias....

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=77587264&src=builder

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=81002980&src=builder


again... images and aset needed to confirm cut quality.

 

[Amys Bling]

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2525944.htm

Not 1 ct, this is the biggest stone you can get from whiteflash- even with dropping color down and clarity down.
no idea how the cut is on that princess, you would have to call whiteflash and ask for an ASET image to determine if the cut is a dud. GIA doesn't grade cut- so the grade you see there isn't actually on cut quality. Only way yu can tell how a non AGS princess is cut is from ASET images.


nothing in the good old gold inventory at 1ct for under 1,500.... the only stone they have under 1,500 are these two- the first one may actually not be under 1,500.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7370/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7336/



within your budget at james allen- this is the closest you can get to 1 carat..... .89 carat
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-VVS2-Good-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1337456.asp
also- the K color will really show, you can see it in the pics. Also the cut is "good"

better cut and color than the K stone listed above... but only .87 carats
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1174382.asp

This stone is as close to 1 carat ad you can get a BlueNile within yuor budget. .80 J Very Good VS2
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?filter_id=0&track=head#diamonds_pid=LD01757754

solomon brothers- seem to have 1ct options- but the cut, color, clarity, are going to be lower in order to meet your budget and carat.
has a lot of EGL so keep in mind that color and clarity will be 1-2 grades lower in each.

good example of what anne was telling you. the .89 I listed is only 5.03*5.11 in size... while the .87 is 5.39*5.4... when the cut is not verygood-excellent-ideal, your 1 carat stone could be cut poorly and deeply, leaving it looking like a .80 ct stone in size. something to consider is the actually mm*mm size of the stone!

 

[Amys Bling]

http://www.ajediam.com/Sizes-of-Diamonds.html
http://www.ajediam.com/princess_diamond_carat_sizes.html


a 1 ct princess stone should be 5.5mm*5.5mm if cut correctly (excellent/ideal/very good) look at measurements of stones... you may be able to find a shallower cut princess stone that is .95 but looks like a 1ct because of its measurements.

 

[ac75]

find out about pictures, ASET images.... and eye-clean/where and what kind of inclusions there are.

solomon brothers....
Princess 1.000 I I1 Very Good 71.50 70.00 EGL $1,288
Princess 1.020 K Si2 Very Good 78.79 71.00 EGL $1,535
Princess 1.000 L Vs2 Excellent 68.40 73.00 EGL $1,562


I would lean towards getting a better cut stone as it will be sparklier and hide color better..... Keep in mind that the I will be J-K, the K will be L-M, and the L will be M-N.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to search for me!

If the better cut will sparkle more, and hide the color better, then I suppose I can drop to an I1/I. I know my wife liked the I2/I we saw, less the inclusions in the table. That was at Helzberg tho, and I think their rocks are AGS?

How do I assert ASET and cut quality online tho? Just trust the salesperson?

And now I'm getting a little confused about measurements. Do you mean .95 ct w/a bigger table and smaller depth will look bigger than a 1.0 ct w/a smaller table and bigger depth?

 

[Amys Bling]

find out about pictures, ASET images.... and eye-clean/where and what kind of inclusions there are.

solomon brothers....
Princess 1.000 I I1 Very Good 71.50 70.00 EGL $1,288
Princess 1.020 K Si2 Very Good 78.79 71.00 EGL $1,535
Princess 1.000 L Vs2 Excellent 68.40 73.00 EGL $1,562


I would lean towards getting a better cut stone as it will be sparklier and hide color better..... Keep in mind that the I will be J-K, the K will be L-M, and the L will be M-N.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to search for me!

If the better cut will sparkle more, and hide the color better, then I suppose I can drop to an I1/I. I know my wife liked the I2/I we saw, less the inclusions in the table. That was at Helzberg tho, and I think their rocks are AGS?

How do I assert ASET and cut quality online tho? Just trust the salesperson?

And now I'm getting a little confused about measurements. Do you mean .95 ct w/a bigger table and smaller depth will look bigger than a 1.0 ct w/a smaller table and bigger depth?

First, you have to ask the vendor to take ASET pics and send to you. You can then upload here and experts can help you determine cut.

Also- is you end up purchasing a "fair" or "good" cut- it could be smaller in appear from look down at it (as set in a ring) than a .90 with a smaller depth.

To determine this- look at length * width measurements.

1 ct princess stones should be in the range of 5.5mm *5.5mm....

 

[ac75]

http://www.ajediam.com/Sizes-of-Diamonds.html
http://www.ajediam.com/princess_diamond_carat_sizes.html


a 1 ct princess stone should be 5.5mm*5.5mm if cut correctly (excellent/ideal/very good) look at measurements of stones... you may be able to find a shallower cut princess stone that is .95 but looks like a 1ct because of its measurements.

Ok...I see what you mean.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=77587264&src=builder

This rock for example measures 5.94 x 5.23, so slightly more rectangulated, but close to a square? Therefore a good-vg cut?

 

[Amys Bling]

well, the face up size of that princess is around where a 1ct princess is.... but its slightly elongated... so you I can't say it's very good, as princess is supposed to be square. But with this stone, you know you are getting a stone that actually looks like it's 1 ct... as opposed to .9 ct.

An ASET will tell exact cut quality and light return and sparkle factor.

 

[Amys Bling]

Do these vendors have return policies? That way if you buy and don't like the stone in person (in all lighting) then return.

 

[ac75]

Ok, thanks. I will see if they are able to send me that.

Here are the details on one of the rocks I was considering.. What makes it a "fair" cut?

Cash Price $1,584
Credit Price: $1,616
Shape: Princess
Carat Weight: 1.00
Color: I
Clarity: Si2
Cut Grade: Fair
Table %: 82.00
Depth %: 71.50
Girdle: Slightly Thick to Very Thick
Culet: N
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.30-5.25x3.79 Length/Width ratio: 1.01
EGL: 85853609

 

[ac75]

Yes Amy, they both have a 100% refund guarantee.. Solomon bros = 25 days. Abazias only 10 day, but they have a ton of + reviews all over the net.

Here's specs on a few more... Symmetry is good.

Cash Price $1,288
Credit Price: $1,314
Shape: Princess
Carat Weight: 1.00
Color: I
Clarity: I1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Table %: 70.00
Depth %: 71.50
Girdle: Thick to Very Thick
Culet: N
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.49-5.47x3.91
Length/Width ratio: 1.00
EGL: 54846502

Certificate EGL 54846502
Cut PRINCESS
Carat 1.00
Color I
Clarity I1
Price $ 1387.36
Price per Carat $ 1387.36
Measurements 5.49 x 5.47 x 3.91 mm
Depth Percentage 71.5 %
Table Percentage 70 %
Crown Angle 41.1
Pavilion Percentage 53.9 %
Pavilion Angle
Girdle TK-VTK
Culet N
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry GOOD
Fluorescence NONE

 

[Amys Bling]

have you seen this?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/princess-cut-diamond

because the table is 82% depth 71.5%...the table larger than depth- you don't usually want this... these numbers fall in "average" good-fair.

 

[Amys Bling]

best advice. utilize return period. 10 days is tight...

If ASET images are not possible go with a solomon stone... examine in person....in all lighting situations. Your * wife eyes will judge best, if she is happy then

 

[D&T]

I was actually fading myself out of PS but felt the need to step in and say that I really *don't* think that any of these will be nicely cut princess for the size and price range you are after. You are sacraficing perfomance for size. Its not likely that you will get one incredible performer in this price range and maybe lifeless. I have a super Ideal princess cut I color in the 1.22 ct SI1 and I can detect inclusions from the side easily also I can detect a slightly tint as well, and I'm not super color senstive as I have had a super ideal round K color before. I am worried that you are only interested in the visual size vs quality and performance, but if that is what you are after, then please disregard my post. I would not look at "fair" cut stones imo. Fancy shapes are much harder to come by based solely on numbers.

Please reasses what it *is* that you want. fiery/sparkly/brillant stone or visual size? in terms of pricing here, you will have to sacrifice a bit here, or go smaller, but better cut/performer. just my 2cnt...take it with a grain of salt.

ETA: please note that EGL is also considerably lenient in their color grading, as an I color could possibly be a K in GIA with Princess cuts, it will likely show a warm tint especially if you don't have the cut performance/sparkle/fire/scintillation to help mask it. Also do you know what the inclusions are? espeically with pointy corners and an I1 I'm worried that there are featheres near those points with stress on those corners when set/wearing it would be a recipe for disaster. I'm sorry if this is too honest, but there are just so many variables in I1stones especially with EGL imo.

ETAA: just a note also fair cut stones usually is cut to yield maximum carat weight before any thought of performance

 

[yssie]

I was actually fading myself out of PS but felt the need to step in and say that I really *don't* think that any of these will be nicely cut princess for the size and price range you are after. You are sacraficing perfomance for size. Its not likely that you will get one incredible performer in this price range and maybe lifeless. I have a super Ideal princess cut I color in the 1.22 ct SI1 and I can detect inclusions from the side easily also I can detect a slightly tint as well, and I'm not super color senstive as I have had a super ideal round K color before. I am worried that you are only interested in the visual size vs quality and performance, but if that is what you are after, then please disregard my post. I would not look at "fair" cut stones imo. Fancy shapes are much harder to come by based solely on numbers.

Please reasses what it *is* that you want. fiery/sparkly/brillant stone or visual size? in terms of pricing here, you will have to sacrifice a bit here, or go smaller, but better cut/performer. just my 2cnt...take it with a grain of salt.

ETA: please note that EGL is also considerably lenient in their color grading, as an I color could possibly be a K in GIA with Princess cuts, it will likely show a warm tint especially if you don't have the cut performance/sparkle/fire/scintillation to help mask it. Also do you know what the inclusions are? espeically with pointy corners and an I1 I'm worried that there are featheres near those points with stress on those corners when set/wearing it would be a recipe for disaster. I'm sorry if this is too honest, but there are just so many variables in I1stones especially with EGL imo.

Ditto everything in this post (except the fading out D&T ) An EGL I1 - didn't even make their bogus SI3 grade?

 

[Amys Bling]

I was actually fading myself out of PS but felt the need to step in and say that I really *don't* think that any of these will be nicely cut princess for the size and price range you are after. You are sacraficing perfomance for size. Its not likely that you will get one incredible performer in this price range and maybe lifeless. I have a super Ideal princess cut I color in the 1.22 ct SI1 and I can detect inclusions from the side easily also I can detect a slightly tint as well, and I'm not super color senstive as I have had a super ideal round K color before. I am worried that you are only interested in the visual size vs quality and performance, but if that is what you are after, then please disregard my post. I would not look at "fair" cut stones imo. Fancy shapes are much harder to come by based solely on numbers.

Please reasses what it *is* that you want. fiery/sparkly/brillant stone or visual size? in terms of pricing here, you will have to sacrifice a bit here, or go smaller, but better cut/performer. just my 2cnt...take it with a grain of salt.

ETA: please note that EGL is also considerably lenient in their color grading, as an I color could possibly be a K in GIA with Princess cuts, it will likely show a warm tint especially if you don't have the cut performance/sparkle/fire/scintillation to help mask it. Also do you know what the inclusions are? espeically with pointy corners and an I1 I'm worried that there are featheres near those points with stress on those corners when set/wearing it would be a recipe for disaster. I'm sorry if this is too honest, but there are just so many variables in I1stones especially with EGL imo.

Agreed. Trying for 1ct at 1,500 you are sacraficing overall quality. color, cut, clarity- BUT the OP stated that 1ct is the #1 criteria in his stone search. To each his own.

I agree cut quality is important for hiding tint....and getting sparkle.
in the OP ideal world he would want SI2 or better.... I or better color... very good cut or better... for 1,500... somewhere you have to give in order to meet the most important criteria.

 

[D&T]

are you set on the 1carat mark? are you open to something smaller but better performer, from a vendor that has 100% upgrade policy? any of these questions important in your decision by chance?