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mom doesnt want me to marry FI...

MichelleCarmen

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Tuckins1|1300630475|2875709 said:
Dancing Fire|1300597311|2875634 said:
Camille|1300595602|2875626 said:
Lol DF....

Expectations do vary, but there is no excuse large enough to avoid taking loved ones to the airport, last minute or not.

1. I'm sure FI loves you SLG but, I have to agree with Merilenda.
2. Never beg a man for anything.
3. If your expectations aren't being met now, wait a year or two :errrr:
4. Listen to your mother, we often catch things ahead of time ::)
5. I'm Sorry!

:o ..not even sex?

If you have to beg, there's a problem....

Yeah, begging for sex? Maybe if you're TTC and the guy concludes you've become possessed with obsession during ovulation time and becomes scared for his own life...(but, that is another topic!)

Anyway, asking him the night before your trip was VERY short notice, but regardless he should have taken you. I guess it could have made sense if, after he took you, he may have been annoyed that you didn't ask sooner, however it doesn't sound like he even cares how you feel about this and is completely passive re: the entire event and even if he did drive you would have been ho-hum.

With your mom, she knows so much more than we do. Based on the airport situation, it makes no sense why she feels you shouldn't marry your FI, so obviously there is MUCH more going on that we don't know anything about.

I wish you the best of luck and hope all works out!
 

CNOS128

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slg47|1300598194|2875639 said:
well anyway I think this whole thing got sort of emotional given that I was stuck in different airports from 7 am to 4 pm today. Thanks for all of your responses. I had a LONG talk with FI and I think it was mostly a big misunderstanding that got worse because my mom was so upset (she expects him to do things like this). He did say that he wants to work on things and he is committed to taking small steps together (I suggested that he plan 1 date per month, he seemed to think this was reasonable). Anyway luckily I am getting on a flight tomorrow, FI and I will take BART TOGETHER to the airport (he is going to a conference next wk). We are both going to work on communicating more directly in the future.

One other solution might be to stop telling your mother what your fiance says / does that you think she'll likely disapprove of. Is there a reason you're willing to share all this information with your mom, especially if, as you say, she tends to be dramatic? It's your relationship. It doesn't really matter what your mom wants or thinks. As much as I do believe she wants the best for you, I'm not sure how much her input should figure into everything, especially if this is what's aggravating the situation.
The important question is, does your fiance's behavior bother YOU? You seem to keep bringing mom into it... I have to say, I really value my mother's opinion, but I sure wouldn't tell her all the little ways in which my husband screws up. I feel like that's begging for trouble.
At any rate, it sounds like you're on a good path toward communicating more effectively... I wish you good luck!
 

Bliss

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Wow, I am so sorry you went through that travel nightmare. Sounds so stressful!!!! While I'm shaking my head over your not taking a taxi and jeopardizing your trip to take public transportation, I'm even more shocked at your FI's lack of stepping up for you. Having had a new baby, let me tell you... YOU DO NOT WANT TO MARRY A GUY WHO WON'T DO THINGS FOR YOU JUST BECAUSE HE'S NOT FEELIN' IT!!! If DH were that type of guy, I'd have taken my baby and run far far away a long time ago. Because when things get really hard, you're going to need to know your partner has your back 100%. So if things are like this now, it will get worse later. At least wait to marry the guy - maybe wait for him to mature and learn what true selfless love is first.

It seems like you might have an incredibly sweet nature where you don't want to rock the boat. Some people are not demanding or like to be assertive in their relationships. Honestly, I'm not one of them either. Who wants to sit her partner down and lay down the law every time you need him to be supportive? It would be exhausting and soul draining. I want assume my partner will take me to the airport because he cares about me. I'm sure you feel the same way. That's why you created this thread, perhaps. You know deep inside that this isn't right. Well, you have reassurance here in spades. It's not right. Hugs.

ETA: Glad you two talked things out. Hope this never happens again! And try not to involve your mom in the future - only because parents rarely forgive or forget when they think someone has hurt their child in some way. You don't want her giving him dirty looks over the Thanksgiving table when you have long since forgotten this incident!
 

movie zombie

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he's a selfish richard. accept him as he is or move on.

this has nothing to do with your mother's issues with your father.

it has everything to do with respect for you and what it means to be in a relatinship.

if it bothers you now, it will tear you apart later.

breaking of an engagement is hard; divorce is even harder.

again, either accept him as he is and do not look for reciprocal behavior from him or move on.

MoZo

ps if he had an emergency at work, had a big project to complete, it might be different. and in that case he should have said, i'll call a taxi for you to make sure you get there. even if he doesn't like your mother and/or family his behavior is very very selfish. a wise ex-boyfriend once told me "never invest more in a relationship than the other person is willing to do". i wouldn't trust this guy to have my back.
 

Autumnovember

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ksinger|1300635822|2875744 said:
Autumnovember|1300633179|2875725 said:
What I'm not understanding out of all of this is this:

Now that he knows that you were upset by not being taken to the airport why not simply say, "I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings that way, next time if you want me to take you to the airport or do something similar for you, I will because it's important to you."

Personally, I would stop going 'out of my way' for him. If he wants a certain cereal, he can go buy it on his time. I doubt he'll appreciate you not going out of your way for him.


The problem with that, is that by doing that, she would be going against how SHE needs to relate to a person she loves. You show love in the manner you wish to BE loved, and trying to change that is fraught. Been there done that, and it's done out of hurt and resentment when it gets to that point, and when that happens your really ARE on your way down. My experience, is when I did that, he didn't really even notice, which was an even bigger slap in the face. He really just did.not.care.

I'm with the others who have noted that if she has expressed her need for this kind of care, and he is unwilling to cheerfully give it simply because she needs it, does not bode well going forward. I know men can be dense in the emotional arena, but when you have clearly stated your needs and aren't expecting him to mind-read, and still get a refusal, you need to reassess.

Oh no, I meant thats what I would expect HIM to say to HER not vice versa.
 

movie zombie

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[quote="MonkeyPie|I told my husband, and he rolled his eyes and said, "Women like that are to blame if they are unhappy. They think things will change when they get married or that they can force the man to change over time. That never works.".[/quote]

Monkey, your husband is dead on target.....and you married very well! clone him and you'll make a fortune!

MoZo

ps saying i read once:

women marry a man hoping he'll change
men marry a woman hoping she will never change.
 

Haven

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Circe|1300569214|2875433 said:
SLG, I'm really sorry your trip is delayed and you have to deal with all this hassle ... but I think I'm with LadyBlue on this one.

Your fiance would have let you down if you'd explicitly told him this was important to you and he'd said no anyway. If you asked casually and he expressed a preference not to (which I can sort of empathize with, as, man, I hate driving), and he then gave you good advice about what sort of transportation you should use to get there, he's not the bad guy here.

If this is, as you say, a theme in your relationship, use this as a springboard to talk about that and see if he'll change. He doesn't have to be a bad guy to not be the guy for you.
I completely agree with Circe on this one.

I'm so sorry you've been stuck in airports and your trip has been delayed, I really am.

As for your FI being the bad guy, here, I just don't see that. It sounds like you weren't clear that you wanted him to drive you to the airport, and when you casually asked him to and got the feeling that he wasn't excited to do it, you immediately backed off. This is NOT the way to make your desires or expectations clear to your partner, and I really think it's unfair to judge his actions as harshly as so many in this thread have done.

I've been with my DH for nearly seven years, and I'd say we drive each other to the airport about 30% of the time. We are not awful partners, were just INDEPENDENT. I don't really need my husband to drive me to the airport to feel as if he cares about me. I think everyone's expectations are obviously different--as evidenced by the fact that so many in this thread seem to think a partner NOT driving their beloved to the airport is unimaginable--but this is not what everyone expects from their partner. SO, since you didn't make YOUR expectation clear, I really don't think it's fair to say that your FI is negligent or doesn't put you first. Some people are totally okay with getting themselves to the airport, and if he's one of them he won't understand YOUR expectation to be taken to the airport until you make that clear.

As Circe said, if this is a theme in your relationship, this whole issue is perfect for starting a conversation about it. Your needs must be met if you're going to be happy in your marriage, but your FI can't meet those needs if you don't communicate them to him. I know many people think something like a ride to an airport shouldn't have to be requested, it should just be offered, but seriously--everyone is not on the same page with this sort of thing. My husband and I do A LOT of things for each other, we are blissfully happy and we do nearly everything together, but airport rides are not one of them. (Perhaps it's because we fly out of O'Hare--the world's most awful airport for dropping off and picking up.)

If you need a man who will just *know* to do the things you want him to do, then this guy isn't the one for you. However, if you love your FI and want to be with him, you owe it to yourself and to him to make your expectations clear. There aren't a lot of things I have to explicitly tell DH that I need from him, but when they come up, I make them known. Otherwise, I'm not giving him the opportunity to provide them, nor am I giving myself the opportunity to get what I need or want.

I'm so surprised to read about all the dismay about the airport rides! I'm wondering if the difference is that it's difficult or very expensive for some people to get themselves to airports. We live 20 minutes from the airport, and public transportation and cheap airport parking abound, so perhaps if it were a bigger deal to get there we'd demand rides. Very interesting.

I think this is a good example of how different people have very different needs. I just had a similar conversation this weekend: I spent the weekend at a conference four hours away from my home. I drove there myself, stayed by myself, attended the conference by myself. It never occurred to me to consider having DH join me, as it would have been terribly boring for him to stay in Springfield, Illinois without a conference to attend. Well, I met many women who were their with their husbands, and they were all SHOCKED that mine didn't join me. I couldn't believe it. Different strokes, indeed!
 

Prana

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Haven, you and I sound a lot alike, I accompanied my mom to Vegas (she was there for work), and I went all over the place by myself...shopping, museums, the Grand Canyon! Everyone on the tourbus thought I was weird for doing something by myself! Without my husband! GASP!!! :rolleyes: I was like a sideshow...everyone wanted to know how my husband felt that I had flown nearly across the country without him, and that we must "really trust each other". The only ladies who thought I was cool and not crazy were two old ladies from Ontario. My dad has accompanied my mom on a few of her work related travels, but for the most part, she goes alone. I don't think my DH would want to accompany me if I ever travelled with my job. He'd rather stay home, eat pizza and fart with the dog :))

I think that people are shocked by this because her FI said 'it wasn't his job to bring her to the airport'. To me that just SCREAMS 'I don't care about you or your needs, no matter how simple or how complicated.'

I don't think there's anything wrong with someone's SO not driving them to the airport, even if it is just because it is majorly inconvenient. The gist I got from the OP was that her FI was more selfish than anything else, not wanting to be inconvenienced, and saying that it wasn't 'his job' to bring her to the airport. I think that the bigger issue might be in his attitude about the whole thing. In my relationship with my DH, both of us would bend over backward for the other person-it's never expected, but always greatly appreciated. IMO, that's how any well functioning, loving couple would act. Without having to be asked.
 

PinkTower

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We live in a big city with excellent public transportation to the airport, and I would not want to walk to the station in the dark when most people are sleeping. It sounds like it may have been dark when you left, and you would not have been very agile bundled up in a coat and with a suitcase for a week long trip. All your things made it hard for you to be aware of your surroundings. Next time, even if you volunteer to take the train, please ask him to walk you to the station. I am not going to go into whether or not I agree or disagree with your actions or his. What I can tell you is that you need to drive your car out of a secure garage in your building,or you need to take a cab, or you need him to walk with you to the station. That is just common sense, and I have been held up before, so I think about these things.
 

Haven

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Prana--First, I am obsessed with your beautiful dog.

I completely agree with you that the whole "it isn't my job to drive you to the airport" comment is a major issue. I think I was focusing more on the overwhelming sentiment that a partner should offer and expect to drive his beloved to the airport without having to be asked--I totally disagree with that, of course.

As for the offending comment, it is bad. I am not arguing with that. I know from my own relationship, though, that when things get heated in this manner we can sometimes things we don't really mean when we're too busy defending ourselves. I wonder if Sig's FI said this because he really believed it, or if he was reacting to being surprised that she expected something from him and then was mad at him for not reading her mind. That doesn't make it okay to say that, but I know I've said things I don't really mean when I was put on the spot during a heated argument. (I do this more than DH, who is eternally rational to an infuriating point. :cheeky: )

How funny that you were made a sideshow for traveling solo! (Your comment about your DH staying home and farting with the dog made me laugh out loud!) I'm going to Belgium by myself this summer, DH will be meeting me once my conference is over, and some of my friends are absolutely dismayed by our plans. Seriously, though, I don't want DH around when I'm busy with my conference! Besides, we'll save four days' worth of boarding fees for our dogs if he stays home until I'm finished. :devil: I think it's so interesting how diverse people's approaches are to these sorts of things. DH and I spend A LOT of time together at home--everything from running errands together to walking the dogs together--but when we're traveling we're totally okay going solo.
 

Prana

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Haven-thank you for your kind words (again!) about Boris! He is blushing....and farting too haha. (For real, he has the WORSE gas!)

I agree, we definitely don't have the whole story, only a few tidbits. It's easy to get carried away by only a few offered words, to this whole blown up scenario making the offender out to be something he may not truly be. Only the OP can answer for how her FI really is.

And I agree with you about solo travel too...I don't have an issue with it, I enjoy it, my DH doesn't have an issue with it-sometimes it just needs to happen! I do prefer to experience things with him, though.
 

Haven

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Total threadjack: Do you feed Boris fish? We feed Bailee a raw diet, and she eats a whole fish on Sundays and BOY OH BOY does she poot up the house!

I do love traveling with DH, I really do. But the wonderful thing about going places alone is that you meet all sorts of interesting people, and I love that, too. I like a bit of both.

Sig--I really hope you can work this out and get what you need from your FI so you can face him on your wedding day with nothing but pure joy about marrying him.
 

dani13

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I havent read through this whole thread, but from what I did read you got some excellent advice.

I am just going to tell you what my mom always told me.."Take whatever qualities you don't like about someone (before your married), and then multiply them by 50,000, and that's how it is after your married." It never gets better." I always remembered that when I was in the dating world. Not that you're ever going to find the perfect person, but I feel like if he is showing signs of selfish-ness now and you're not even married yet, that's a problem. And to me, that was an extremely selfish move on his part.

Different relationships work for different people, and I understand that. But I kind of agree with your mom that's its an issue that needs to be addressed. I hope that you can talk it out with your FI and come to some kind of resolution. Best of luck!!
 

decodelighted

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We do the "pain" vs "money" calculation every time .... but we have shared $$ now, being married. Is the pain of driving to the airport worth the savings of not parking the car for x# of days there? Or a car service? Also, whose $$ are we saving? Would the company pay the post of a cab or parking ... or would we? Etc etc

This whole situation is confusing to me because I can't figure out the "facts" I guess....

I agree with Tacori that you can't expect people to read your mind. This IS a bit of a North/South divide ... and as a Southerner living in the Northeast now, its been a learning curve re: ASKING for what I want, instead of expecting everyone else to INTUIT my needs out of an abundance of politeness/empathy/superhuman mind reading hostess abilities. In the South people really DO read other people's minds. It is trained into you to TRY to read people's minds & intuit their wishes before they HAVE to ask. But its not IMPOLITE to ask for what you want ... in fact, I think its RUDE to EXPECT people to *offer*. You aren't *owed* a ride to the airport. But, as a girlfriend who often self-sacrifices for your boyfriend, you have a right to ASK HIM to help you out in a way that he might not be thrilled about but ultmately willing to do.

Listen, I hate driving people to the airport. I can't believe ANYONE actually LOVES to do it. We all do things we HATE to do in order to help out those we LOVE.

As to whether to marry this guy or not .... here's what I'll say. Marry someone who will bend over backwards to make your life easier. And someone who you are willing to do all sorts of yucky stuff for ... just because you love them that much. Without those two truths --- I just don't think marriage is WORKABLE. Period. You might think you can "suck things up" forever ... but you can't. You'll be resentful every time you see a more doting mate. You'll feel cheated. It'll work on your self esteem ... "I don't DESERVE special treatment" etc etc etc. Sometimes Moms know best. Maybe you can work through this with better communication and more of you asking for what you want ... and more of him coming to terms with GIVING. But if you're saying that its "just not in his personality" ... good luck changing THAT. :-o
 

neatfreak

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So question for Haven and others who think this is ok.

OP said "I asked him to yesterday and he just didn't want to". That to ME is very, very different than being independent and being able to take yourself.

I also am independent. I don't expect my DH to drive me to the airport every time I go for work, nor do I expect him to get our kids up at 2am out of bed to drop me off, etc. This is realistic IMO. He knows if I ask it's because I've calculated that I need him to for some logical reason and he would do it even if he didn't want to. He might not always offer or insist because he knows I am independent, but you can bet that if I ASKED him, and he had no obligations, no kids sleeping, etc., he would take me. He might not want to, but he'd do it, especially if it meant catching my flight or not.

IMO that is VERY different (and is the situation here we are talking about) than just being independent and being able to get to the airport yourself sometimes.

She asked him, he said no. She may not have told him how important it was to her, but she still asked and he said he didn't want to.

To me, that says a LOT about him.

I am just curious how you all would react in that situation? Because I think that's a heck of a lot different than some of the other situations being described here.
 

Prana

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Haven-we feed Boris Welness brand food, we recently switched him to the Whitefish and Sweet Potato one-it's for digestive health :lol: . He's always been a farter, but moreso now. I too, love solo travel because it forces you to leave your comfort zone- I've met a lot of interesting people and heard a lot of interesting stories! Sorry for the threadjack!!

neatfreak- I think that it is OK for a SO to say that they don't want to drive their SO to the airport because it is inconvenient. Whether because of traffic, or schedule conflicts or an early/late flight that would interfere with sleep/work. However, if no other suitable method of transportation can be found, it should go without saying that your SO will drive you to the airport.

In OP's case, I don't think it was appropriately handled. Public transportation was not a reliable alternative, and both the OP and her FI seemed to know that. I do think that there is a deeper issue in this situation that needs to be addressed.

I agree with everything you've written- the way he responded to her request was selfish and uncaring (from the information provided). I do not think it was OK for him to say no, simply because he didn't feel like it. It does speak volumes about his character.
 

Haven

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Neatfreak--I guess I'm just a bit confused about what ACTUALLY happened in this situation. She posted a response after her initial post in which she wrote "no, he didn't want to because he had to do some work and errands (not have to be at work at a specific time, just work on his own time) and because it was early. when i mentioned him driving me he seemed annoyed, so I said I would just take the public transportation. He was like "you shouldn't...I think you will miss your flight" "

I could be reading her posts wrong, but to me there's a big difference between a) mentioning that your SO could drive you to the airport and backing off as soon as he "seems annoyed" and b) flat-out asking your SO to drive you to the airport and getting an actual refusal. To answer your question about what I would do:

If I simply mentioned "Oh, I need to be at the airport at 5 AM tomorrow, I was thinking you could drive me" and if he responded by seeming annoyed I wouldn't back off right away and just say that I'd take public transport. If I really wanted him to drive me I would say "I really want you to drive me to the airport." If he refused, well, we'd have a discussion about that. I can't imagine my husband refusing a request like that from me, so it's hard to say what I would do. I would be upset, and I would have communicated that right then and there. We have no way of knowing how Sig's FI would have reacted because she didn't do that--maybe he would have driven her to the airport if she had voiced her desires.

Regardless of all of this, my point was actually about the overwhelming response that a SO should automatically want to drive his partner to the airport, and that it shouldn't be a question. I very much disagree with that. And, I'm uncomfortable with condemning the SO of someone who has some concerns about getting married with very little information. There are two sides to every story, and I was just trying to shed some light on that.

I also agree with Prana that it's okay to not want to drive your SO to the airport. Again, I would drive my DH anywhere if it was important to him, and vice versa, but I really don't think it's that criminal to say "Can you take a taxi, instead?" There's also the flip side to this situation: If I were flying out of Midway Airport at 5 AM, for example, I would *never* ask my husband to drive me there because I can get there myself and I would much rather not inconvenience him when it's unnecessary. I think the courtesy issue is a two-way street. We are working people, and we're tired at the end of the week. I care about my husband's stress level and I want him to get as much rest as he can on the weekends that I wouldn't want him to wake up early to take me to the airport when it wasn't necessary. I know he feels the same way. I'm not saying this is how Sig should feel, I'm just using this to illustrate that both partners need to consider the other's needs and feelings and I think it's a loving thing to do that, even when you're the traveler.

ETA: I keep writing these very long posts, and that made me realize that I'm not being very articulate. (Twain's whole "I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead" comes to mind.) I'm sorry about that. I really can't seem to get my thoughts together today.
 

lulu66

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slg, this is my advice: please have couples counseling before you get married. you will both learn so much about yourselves & each other.

from what i've read here, you both have problems communicating & focusing on the (BIG, underlying) issue at hand. you don't feel that he goes out of his way for you. this is how you feel loved. you show him your love by going to the other grocery store for his favorite cereal. this in NOT how he feels loved; therefore, he is not doing these things for you (like excitedly offering to take you to the airport after you've passively suggested it). he's showing you love in some other way. this is a problem. you all need to learn to show love for each other in the way that you need it (sometimes) and appreciate the love your partner shows you in his/her way (other times).

i wish you nothing but luck & happiness in the future. but, please, take my advice.
 

ksinger

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Haven|1300647442|2875853 said:
Circe|1300569214|2875433 said:
SLG, I'm really sorry your trip is delayed and you have to deal with all this hassle ... but I think I'm with LadyBlue on this one.

Your fiance would have let you down if you'd explicitly told him this was important to you and he'd said no anyway. If you asked casually and he expressed a preference not to (which I can sort of empathize with, as, man, I hate driving), and he then gave you good advice about what sort of transportation you should use to get there, he's not the bad guy here.

If this is, as you say, a theme in your relationship, use this as a springboard to talk about that and see if he'll change. He doesn't have to be a bad guy to not be the guy for you.
I completely agree with Circe on this one.

I'm so sorry you've been stuck in airports and your trip has been delayed, I really am.

As for your FI being the bad guy, here, I just don't see that. It sounds like you weren't clear that you wanted him to drive you to the airport, and when you casually asked him to and got the feeling that he wasn't excited to do it, you immediately backed off. This is NOT the way to make your desires or expectations clear to your partner, and I really think it's unfair to judge his actions as harshly as so many in this thread have done.

I've been with my DH for nearly seven years, and I'd say we drive each other to the airport about 30% of the time. We are not awful partners, were just INDEPENDENT. I don't really need my husband to drive me to the airport to feel as if he cares about me. I think everyone's expectations are obviously different--as evidenced by the fact that so many in this thread seem to think a partner NOT driving their beloved to the airport is unimaginable--but this is not what everyone expects from their partner. SO, since you didn't make YOUR expectation clear, I really don't think it's fair to say that your FI is negligent or doesn't put you first. Some people are totally okay with getting themselves to the airport, and if he's one of them he won't understand YOUR expectation to be taken to the airport until you make that clear.

As Circe said, if this is a theme in your relationship, this whole issue is perfect for starting a conversation about it. Your needs must be met if you're going to be happy in your marriage, but your FI can't meet those needs if you don't communicate them to him. I know many people think something like a ride to an airport shouldn't have to be requested, it should just be offered, but seriously--everyone is not on the same page with this sort of thing. My husband and I do A LOT of things for each other, we are blissfully happy and we do nearly everything together, but airport rides are not one of them. (Perhaps it's because we fly out of O'Hare--the world's most awful airport for dropping off and picking up.)

If you need a man who will just *know* to do the things you want him to do, then this guy isn't the one for you. However, if you love your FI and want to be with him, you owe it to yourself and to him to make your expectations clear. There aren't a lot of things I have to explicitly tell DH that I need from him, but when they come up, I make them known. Otherwise, I'm not giving him the opportunity to provide them, nor am I giving myself the opportunity to get what I need or want.

I'm so surprised to read about all the dismay about the airport rides! I'm wondering if the difference is that it's difficult or very expensive for some people to get themselves to airports. We live 20 minutes from the airport, and public transportation and cheap airport parking abound, so perhaps if it were a bigger deal to get there we'd demand rides. Very interesting.

I think this is a good example of how different people have very different needs. I just had a similar conversation this weekend: I spent the weekend at a conference four hours away from my home. I drove there myself, stayed by myself, attended the conference by myself. It never occurred to me to consider having DH join me, as it would have been terribly boring for him to stay in Springfield, Illinois without a conference to attend. Well, I met many women who were their with their husbands, and they were all SHOCKED that mine didn't join me. I couldn't believe it. Different strokes, indeed!

And there, I think, may be the crux of the matter. This clearly is not just a single incident of an airport ride and has very little to do with airports, public transportation, or anything of the sort, but as others have noted, is a "theme", a theme of not having your love reciprocated in the way that you need MOST of the time. It's one thing to expect mind-reading and get pissy when someone can't, but really, I know if I had to expicitly state every need of mine to my husband, we'd not be together. That bespeaks of differences that are deeper than they should be, not to mention how incredibly tiring and draining. Everything I need has to be an explicit request or negotiation? I think not. Dangit man, pay attention! I can and do, and so should he. Most men I've known get all weepy with relief when they finally find a woman who is direct, and god knows I can be (and he usually doesn't care for it when he makes me go that far - I think he's learned to "read" my milder comments out of self-preservation!), but if I don't feel like the guy is paying attention enough to figure a few things out on his own, then he's just too dense for me.

My husband seriously reads my mind these days and tries very hard to anticipate and please me. And vice-versa. It's pretty plush.

ETA - I need to read more of the posts. I guess I'm just rehashing what's already been said more than once and more eloquently by others. :wacko: Carry on...
 

Haven

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I think you're right, Ksinger. I chose to focus on the way so many were condemning Sig's FiIs behavior, which I think is unfair, but I think there's a lot of truth in what you say. I think this speaks to how well people are made for each other, in some way. DH and I don't need to tell each other about many of our expectations because they are either the same, or they can be logically deduced based on everything else that we just know about each other. I don't think there's necessarily something wrong with Sig's FI, rather they just sound like they aren't gelling on some level. I mean to say that perhaps another woman would not see any of these issues at all because her expectations would be different.

My husband is by far the more considerate of the two of us, and I would never willingly sign up for a lifetime with someone who needed explicit direction at every turn. I do that all day long in the classroom, the last thing I need is a pupil as a husband.

If this is in fact a theme, I definitely think it's an issue and I hope Sig can work it out. I'm very close to a couple that has this issue--the man needs explicit direction about far too many things--and with him I believe it's a maturity thing. I don't mean to say that he will grow out of it with age, I mean that I think he is just plain immature and thinks only of himself, much like a teenager would.
 

packrat

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If I had to go to the airport, I wouldn't even ask, I would tell him what time the flight left etc- I would expect him to take me, and I know that he would expect to do it. We're different I guess, in that, were you to ask JD about it he would look at you funny and say either "She's my wife, that's what I *do*" or "I'm her husband, that's my job". If I forgot to say something until the last minute for whatever reason, he'd jump up and say "Oh shit we better get going then." Not that I ever go to the airport..or anywhere really. When I took my insurance licensing test, he drove me an hour to the testing site and slept in the truck while I tested. I don't like to drive places far away by myself-he knew that when he signed up for the Job of Husband. Sometimes it sucks to be him but that's part of marriage. I wouldn't expect a stretch limo and champagne for the ride, but I would expect a somewhat clean Ford Escape and a pee break in Onawa without having to ask.

He and I do look at marriage as a job. Not a job like aw crap I gotta go to work today, not an employee/employer job. A job like, it's our job to take care of our kids, and it's our job to take care of our marriage and the relationship we have with each other. It's a full time 24/7 job, just like parenting.

Yes you should have remembered to tell him when the flight was leaving, but conversely, he could've remembered to ask. "Hey, what time's your flight leave today?" "Oh crap I forgot all about telling you, it leaves at 8, can we still make it in time?" JD doesn't always remember his appointments, and I'm not going to tell him tough titty be a big boy and remember your own crap, it's not my job. As a considerate person and as his wife, if I think of it I say "Hey, don't you have an appointment at blah's at X time or did you change it?" Part of being in a relationship is being part *of* the relationship, we figure. I don't go around w/a blackberry and check it to see if he has anything going on, I'm not saying anything like that.

We've been together 11 years. There have been plenty of times where one of us forgot to say something, and it ends up "Dangit, I can't believe I forgot to say something" "It's ok, we'll figure it out, I forgot all about it and didn't think to ask". We handle it together, not leave the other twisting in the wind b/c it's not our job. Does he do that at his place of employment job or does he buck up and take care of it?

I hope you guys can get things worked out. What MZ said about men and women marrying is something my mom has told me before too, and I read it in Dear Abby years ago, so I know it's pretty much gospel. I always think about my dad when I was dating a guy who was..inconsiderate. "If it's like this now, when you're both putting your best foot forward, what will it be like in 10 years and you're married? Things don't get *better* after marriage, they get harder, decide now what you're willing to put up with"
 

chemgirl

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Slg, I didn't read the entire thread and I think I came to the party a bit late, but here's my two cents after some personal experience with somebody who sounds a lot like your fiance:

Firstly, I do think he should have offered to drive you to the airport. Taking public transit with luggage is just a pain. He should want to make your life as easy as possible and he could have done that by driving you.

I dated somebody who sounds very similar to your FI for years. He's a very nice guy and I'm sure he loved me, he just didn't really put me first all of the time. He just didn't seem to get it. He'd never drop me off or pick me up at the airport and we were in an LD relationship for the last year. He also didn't really understand when I was upset and wouldn't react unless I told him. I remember my aunt died while I was visiting him and I wasn't able to get back home on time for the funeral. I was devastated and the first thing out of his mouth was "oh, have I met her before?" when I said no, he looked at me and reminded me that we had dinner reservations in half an hour. Since I wasn't crying he figured it was fine. Obviously something like that isn't fine! I remember he finally asked if I was ok and gave me a hug when we got to the restaurant and the waitress asked me what was wrong. He was completely incapable of empathizing with me. The waitress, whom I'd never met before, knew something was wrong, but he couldn't tell. I know I'm making him sound like a jerk, but he really wasn't. He honestly didn't understand. To him, driving me to the airport would take over an hour out of his day so why not take a cab? Its inefficient to drive there and back. His friends had similar complaints so he was like that with everyone.

Hehe, actually he's 27...maybe its the same guy?

My point here is that some people just don't know how to empathize with others and put people before themselves. I don't think you can change them in any material way. I mean, you can tell them what they need to do, but they'll never have the impulse to just do it on their own. You need to decide if you're ok with that. People need different things in a relationship so it depends on what you need to feel loved.

I thought I was fine being independent and doing things for myself, but then the relationship with the ex dissolved for other reasons and I met my husband. I have to say that its really nice to know I have a ride whenever I need one, without having to ask. I realize now that I really need to know that I have somebody backing me who will put me first. I put him first so its only fair right?

Ok, I read over my post and it sounds condescending and like I'm telling you to leave your FI. I'm not. I'm just saying that you should think over what you need in a partner.
 

mayerling

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Haven|1300647442|2875853 said:
Circe|1300569214|2875433 said:
SL
I'm so surprised to read about all the dismay about the airport rides! I'm wondering if the difference is that it's difficult or very expensive for some people to get themselves to airports. We live 20 minutes from the airport, and public transportation and cheap airport parking abound, so perhaps if it were a bigger deal to get there we'd demand rides. Very interesting.

I think this is an important point. We live 90 miles from the airport. Public transport would involve a 45 minute train combined with 45 minute subway travel (over £30) - not to mention getting from our house to the train station, or a 2.5-hour bus ride (£40), or a cab (£100). A spouse willing to drive the other spouse only 30% of the time would just be out of the question.
 

Haven

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mayerling|1300663647|2876049 said:
Haven|1300647442|2875853 said:
Circe|1300569214|2875433 said:
SL
I'm so surprised to read about all the dismay about the airport rides! I'm wondering if the difference is that it's difficult or very expensive for some people to get themselves to airports. We live 20 minutes from the airport, and public transportation and cheap airport parking abound, so perhaps if it were a bigger deal to get there we'd demand rides. Very interesting.
I think this is an important point. We live 90 miles from the airport. Public transport would involve a 45 minute train combined with 45 minute subway travel (over £30) - not to mention getting from our house to the train station, or a 2.5-hour bus ride (£40), or a cab (£100). A spouse willing to drive the other spouse only 30% of the time would just be out of the question.
This makes sense. If it was a really big, expensive deal to get to the airport, I would drive DH there and he would drive me. For us, it's a short ride away in a taxi or our own car, and parking is only $13 a day, I believe, so it's very easy to get yourself there without starting out your travels haggard, exhausted, and low on cash.
 

atroop711

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slg47|1300558389|2875276 said:
I am in grad school. He is 27 and I am 25. I totally acknowledge that I am an idiot for not taking a taxi.

mscushion...yes, I would have driven him to the airport. that's what irks me. Even if I had to get up at 5, I would have. I asked him to yesterday and he just didn't want to, and me being stubborn decided to take the public transportation.


I was JUST going to post and ask his age. Maybe it's his age, the way he was raised. In my family if a member is going to the airport, we drive them or pick them up (otherwise it's a $50+ expense and a PITA). I've noticed a lot of younger men lately (not all young men but just enough to make me notice) show a lack of respect or a lack of chivalry. I'm 42 and my husband would never let me take a taxi or other transport to the airport if he could help it. I'm a mother of a 2 yr old boy and I will teach my son to treat women how he wants his momma treated. I want him to offer his seat on the bus, hold a door open for anyone who is walking behind him and help others when they need it.

As for your mom..she's either seeing something you aren't OR she's projecting her issues with your dad..if that's the case she has to remember that your dad was your dad and not all men are the same.

GL!!
 

Circe

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Haven|1300657164|2875975 said:
I think you're right, Ksinger. I chose to focus on the way so many were condemning Sig's FiIs behavior, which I think is unfair, but I think there's a lot of truth in what you say. I think this speaks to how well people are made for each other, in some way. DH and I don't need to tell each other about many of our expectations because they are either the same, or they can be logically deduced based on everything else that we just know about each other. I don't think there's necessarily something wrong with Sig's FI, rather they just sound like they aren't gelling on some level. I mean to say that perhaps another woman would not see any of these issues at all because her expectations would be different.

My husband is by far the more considerate of the two of us, and I would never willingly sign up for a lifetime with someone who needed explicit direction at every turn. I do that all day long in the classroom, the last thing I need is a pupil as a husband.

If this is in fact a theme, I definitely think it's an issue and I hope Sig can work it out. I'm very close to a couple that has this issue--the man needs explicit direction about far too many things--and with him I believe it's a maturity thing. I don't mean to say that he will grow out of it with age, I mean that I think he is just plain immature and thinks only of himself, much like a teenager would.

Agree with so much of what you're saying in this thread, but .... I think that quality we're all talking about can be developed, though. It seems like a lot of people in this thread are either married to people who are very similar in terms of base personality, or in terms of ingrained cultural expectations. Me? I'm married to an absolutely lovely man who shows love by doing things like automatically keeping me stocked in Diet Coke ... but to whom it would never occur to fuss over me when I'm sick. And, on the flip side, it drives him stark, raving, bat-guano-crazy to be fussed over when he's sick ... and it took us something like two years of marriage (and a lot of hurt feelings and misunderstandings) to figure this out. We finally had to have a talk where I was like, "Look, have you seen me with my best friend? You know how I ask her over and over and over again if she's sure she's okay, if I can get her some soup, if she wants an extra blanket? This is not me assuming she's a moron who couldn't figure out that she wanted soup on her own: this is me making her feel loved by sparing her the necessity of asking." It was like a light-bulb went off. He still thinks it's nonsensical, I think ... but he does it now that he knows it's an expression of love (and, conversely, I bite my tongue and try to keep in mind that he prefers to be left alone to lick his wounds in peace).

Slg, when I was younger, I used to insist that if you had to ask for something, it didn't count if you got it: didn't matter if it was sex or affection or a favor or what. I had some serious rejection issues stemming from a bad relationship, and, my god, how those issues complicated my 20s. I am MUCH happier now that I bluntly state what I need, and why I need it, even if it's a little embarrassing to say outright, "Look, I want a ride to the airport, both because it's the convenient way to get there, and because it'll make me feel cherished. Que sabe?" Does that sound like something you can see yourself doing? Or would it be better to be with someone whom you wouldn't have to spell it out for ... who might not have some of your fiance's other sterling qualities?

P.S. - Dude, if your mom's dramatic, stop telling her things. I love my folks, but they never drop a grudge, and after watching them hate on my boyfriends for trivia I'd long since forgotten for a decade, I figured it wasn't worth the venting and started myself a journal ....
 

HollyS

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slg47|1300563777|2875385 said:
I did ask him to take me. He didn't expressly say NO but he acted like he was not interested in taking me or couldn't be bothered. Given his reaction I did not press further.


So, he was passive aggressive?

Surely, after some reflection, you are aware of why your mother is ticked off at him and concerned for you.
 

ksinger

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Circe said: " I think that quality we're all talking about can be developed"

Amen to that. Of course, she may not want to wait 27 years like I did for it to grow. ;)) Most people are smarter than me in that regard, or they have more intestinal fortitude than I did. I let some OTHER woman "grow him up", then reaped the rewards. But yes, people can learn to not be self-centered. Knowing of course, that there are people at every age who are not, it still is a more common trait of youth. If my guy hadn't learned a thing or 2 by 46, I would have had to marry him AND beat him every day, and that's tiring too. I'm glad he wised up. ;)) And his constant comment is, "Damn, if I'd only known how really EASY this (woman maintenence) was when I was in my 20's." Hindsight and all that rot.

So he may really change, but one thing is certain, he won't be doing it on anyone's schedule but his own!
 

iugurl

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Circe|1300665343|2876070 said:
P.S. - Dude, if your mom's dramatic, stop telling her things. I love my folks, but they never drop a grudge, and after watching them hate on my boyfriends for trivia I'd long since forgotten for a decade, I figured it wasn't worth the venting and started myself a journal ....

I NEVER tell my parents any issues that I ever have with DH. However, in this situation, it seems almost inevitable that her mother find out. She had to call her mom to tell her that she missed her flight and could not come for a few days. I am sure her mom asked how/why did you miss your flight, then she probably said she took public transportation which took longer than expected. Then her mom, I would think, asked WHY did you take public trans. WHY didn't your FI take you!!!???? I think the only way of getting out of having her mother find out is lying. Should someone have to lie about why their fiance refused to take her to the airport? I don't think so. That is up to her though. I suppose she could have refused to answer any of her mother's questions, but that seems really rude and suspicious.
 

Circe

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ksinger|1300669890|2876114 said:
Circe said: " I think that quality we're all talking about can be developed"

Amen to that. Of course, she may not want to wait 27 years like I did for it to grow. ;)) Most people are smarter than me in that regard, or they have more intestinal fortitude than I did. I let some OTHER woman "grow him up", then reaped the rewards. But yes, people can learn to not be self-centered. Knowing of course, that there are people at every age who are not, it still is a more common trait of youth. If my guy hadn't learned a thing or 2 by 46, I would have had to marry him AND beat him every day, and that's tiring too. I'm glad he wised up. ;)) And his constant comment is, "Damn, if I'd only known how really EASY this (woman maintenence) was when I was in my 20's." Hindsight and all that rot.

So he may really change, but one thing is certain, he won't be doing it on anyone's schedule but his own!

See, I don't think it's being self-centered, necessarily: I think it can just be the result of having completely different underlying assumptions.

Are the assumptions sometimes - frequently! - people of the masculine persuasion assuming women should give, give, give, while they take, take, take? Oh, yeah. Is it necessarily the case here? I dunno ... so I'm just advocating for a little more communication. Even if not with this guy, it makes life so much easier in the long run!
 
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