MOBzilla Meltdown Moment

[risingsun]

MR~I made that remark about my profession [I am a Licensed Professional Counselor in a group practice] because I recall you advising someone to use self-help books instead of a therapist and then making a negative comment. If I am wrong, my apologies. I do hope you will be able to resolve the dress problem without further distress.

 

[FrekeChild]

Yay for massages!!!

Just remember to keep breathing!!!!

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 6/29/2008 2:54:42 PM
Author: risingsun
MR~I made that remark about my profession [I am a Licensed Professional Counselor in a group practice] because I recall you advising someone to use self-help books instead of a therapist and then making a negative comment. If I am wrong, my apologies. I do hope you will be able to resolve the dress problem without further distress.

I don''t recall every saying that. I think self-help books can be useful indeed, but would never suggest that is all one needs when extremely depressed or suicidal, homicidal or have an organic brain disease. I do have a very strong opinions about the treatment of every day stressors with strong anti-depressants and the pharmaceutical industry as a whole. But if I unintentionally gave the impression that I thought the profession was worthless, that is not true. In fact, without it I could never have been able to keep my Dad alive. There are many times when the right counselor and/or medication is useful and an absolute necessity. But that''s a different thread.

I do know what you meant and I do appreciate your input. Thank you.

Freke: I was like Gumby after the session. I loved it. I will post more about "body/mind work" in my other thread. I''m still breathing and actually feel a lot more relaxed today. My daughter, her fiancee, and I are going to go eat salads at her venue tonight, because they need to make that final food choice. So my fish taco salad will have to wait until tomorrow night.

 

[miraclesrule]

SDL, it was in Virginia. I would certainly hope nobody would enjoy making anyone waiting wait around that long. Unfortunately, as you noted, it is a systemic healthcare problem in our country. Just so sad really.

 

[blondebunny]

I think you are a fantastic mom for taking care of all of that for your daughter. My mother would be the same way, and I know someone said it earlier, but if they dont give you what you paid for then dispute the charges...I just think its crazy you ordered this expensive dress, and its not what you ordered..I really hope everything gets worked out for your daughters dress!! Just wanted to say that!! Goodluck!

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 6/29/2008 6:03:31 PM
Author: miraclesrule
SDL, it was in Virginia. I would certainly hope nobody would enjoy making anyone waiting wait around that long. Unfortunately, as you noted, it is a systemic healthcare problem in our country. Just so sad really.

Miracles, do you mind if I ask where in VA?

Any updates about the dress?

ETA: I fixed something.

 

[miraclesrule]

This has been the most dissapointing and stressful day after receiving a canned response from the designer which is not only verifiably and blatantly untrue and contains no facts, but was dismissive and patronizing.

She failed to address the facts in my original or subsequent email... Here is the email I received from the designer.

Dear Mrs. W*****,
Thank-you for your email and I want to assure you that everyone is working towards the same goal and that is to make sure your daughter is happy in her wedding dress.
We undersatnd that these can be stressful times and specially for you having to orchestrate the entire wedding.
I have been in contact with R*****a at Here Comes The Bride and your daughters dress alterations are completely normal.
By way of a short explanation regarding alterations it always takes 2-3 fittings. One of the most important aspects of a dress is the bust. Your daughters dress fit perfectly in the bust ( it did not have to be taken in or let out) and this is important so there is no "back cleavage" or letting out. Therefore the size of the dress was correct as the bust is a very important aspect of selecting the size.* The gown is then pinned to fit the bride.It is sometimes hard to see it all come together till the final fitting as the process is all hand done and the tweaking takes place from fitting to fitting.
Wishing you the very best
Best regards
Michelle

*underline my emphasis

What? Did she not read the email that she responded to which was very detailed about the amount of "taking in" that was indeed required and it''s still too big? Her response was right on top of the original body of my email that indicates that the dress was so big that they had to take it in along the entire top of the dress on BOTH sides until it was nearly boning to boning at side seams from top to hip...and it is still too big on the bust and waist? Why is my daughter holding up the dress by the hanger straps if it fit her perfectly at the bust? Why did we have to put a lot more gel pads and breast cups to see if that would help, ( it didn''t) if it fit "perfectly at the bust". The underlined statement is a joke. At first I thought for sure that this response was intended for someone else.

I don''t believe that this came from the designer, it just couldn''t have. Perhaps they had the salon manager respond for her. I suspect the salon manager lied so much to the designer that she didn''t even bother to read what I wrote and just believed what the salon manager told her. This email is as dismissive as the salon manager has been to us. the email doesn''t even address the questions I had about the bustling and/or bringing a different size dress to us asap, like when her brother is at her trunk show on 7/11/08, which is two weeks before the wedding.

The next fitting is this Thursday. I have gone from worried and frustrated to full scale strategic contingency planning. This is unbelievable. Not so much the situation because as I posted before, I believe any situation can be fixed, but the reaction to it is preventing me from believing that fixing the problem will happen. Not when the parties responsible will not take ownership.

All I can do is document everything tonight and get it in a letter from that both my daughter and I will sign and fax, fed-ex, and email to the designer and the salon at the same time.

Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

In the meantime, I am putting all the pictures together so that it will be chronologically correct and detailed as I have to do all day for work when presenting or defending a case. This shouldn''t happen will her dress. What has happened to our American service culture?

 

[FrekeChild]

I think you need to go and take some pictures of her wearing the gown-but not from far away- from very close up showing how big it is on her-if you can fit fingers in between her and the dress-or if it gaps. Take a picture of the boning and the alterations done. Take pictures of the differences between her dress and the sample-the alterations and all. Perhaps even take some in macro mode. The more evidence you have, the better.

They think you're a regular MOB who is just flying off the wall because you can. I can practically hear the conversation after reading that email. That is NOT RIGHT.

I am very much against talk of lawsuits because I've been raised that way, but I'm starting to think that might be the only way you get any peace of mind.

I think that she's taking the salon manager's word over yours. And we all know that woman has it out for you. Take those pictures and send them to her. When are you going? Have you sent her any pictures? What did your email say?

I'm so sorry miracles. You should NOT have to go through this. Do you have the original measurements for the size 8 dress and her actual measurements? I think that's something you should look into.

Also. I will NEVER buy a Michelle Roth design. Even if I fall in love with it. That woman just P-ed me off.

ETA: Is there any possible way you can get another dress? Different style/designer but most importantly a different shop? Because frankly, after all of this absolute BS treatment, I wouldn't want to wear it. That dress would no longer have good chi in my mind.

 

[miraclesrule]

I've done most of the above, and so did my friend who came with me last week. I don't know why my camera didn't download last night, so I just set it up again. It looks like it's downloading now. It's clear how much has been taken in by seeing it up close and my friend is my witness. But again, that is not the point, as you know....

My daughter's wedding is in less than 4 weeks and I first have to get this dress or another dress suitable for her to walk down the aisle. We will have to make a decision after the fitting Thursday night. In the meantime, I am gathering all the pictures. Will you be able to do what you did for me before, such as putting them side by side, or explain to me how I can do that?

 

[meresal]

My opinion...

Did you pay extra for cutom fit or did she just measure her and then give her the closest size (an 8 I believe you said)? If you didn''t pay extra for "Hollow to Hem" and "Hollow to waist" etc... then I don''t think you have much of a case, for the fittings and alteration charges above the skirt. I''m going to reference you to my previous post about writing everything down when it is ordered and having both parties sign anything that isn;t on the order form itself. This is where I am dissapointed that they would take all her measurments and lead you to believe this would be a custom dress (this also explains why they have a lawyer constantly on retainer for only one salon

)
However, with that said... I think that you still have a case, bc you ordered the dress without full disclosure. (ie, the extra crinoline). I''m sorry but the back of the dress did look much like a "worm" as you put it. It is laying completely wrong, folding under everywhere, and they should definitely fix that. The email you received is what I beleive is typical of a designer. In my snootiest voice... "They are artists, and everything is perfect... it''s your body that doesn''t fit the work of art." ::sigh::

I can''t express enough, how sorry I am that you are going through this. Just try and be as positive as you can for your own health and your daughters. You and your daughter should have a plan of action before you go in. To be completely honest... You''re daughter NEEDS to express her dislike with the dress, if indeed that is how she feels. I can tell you first hand that right now, they probably just think you are being overbearing and taking control. They will back down a bit if they know the bride is upset as well.

Best of luck!! I''ll be thinking about the both of you!!

 

[choro72]

Oh boy, I''m so irritated for you. Makes me want to send them flaming emails myself.

How is everything else other than the dress? Your daughter is so lucky to have you

 

[FrekeChild]

I can totally do it for you. Just upload what you can and I''ll put them in whatever order you want. I wish you had my email so you could just email them to me, but...that doesn''t seem to be possible.

 

[miraclesrule]

meresel: I sure wish we would have known what to do at the time we were there with the designer. But honestly, how many first time would know this? When the designer herself is measuring you and the salon had already measured you, it would seem to me, that a bride would rely on the expertise of the salon and the designer herself.

Maybe we should start a checklist on everything a person should do to protect themselves against this type of situation. As you know I am loss prevention and loss mitigation specialist so it is an issue I am passionate about. They should have anticipated what could have happened and had a contingency plan in place. It''s awful...and it''s disappointing to know that this is what the "industry" has turned into.

I had the same conversation with my daughter today. She is NOT happy and she intends to let them know, in writing and in person. She can no longer sit silently and hope that we can help her. She needs to make it known how she feels and what she expects. It''s not what she wanted to do, but now she is angry. She is very trusting and it''s hard when it''s not in your nature to want to believe that people are not always trustworthy. She provides nothing but the best internal and external customer service in her job as do I, and it is mind-boggling to us right now.

choro: Thank you for your support. Everything else is right on schedule and looking good. It''s interesting that the podcast that the Roths just put out, which is a three part series, is about the crowning jewel of the wedding...the dress and making sure it fits right. I need to somehow record that podcast series.

freke: I know, it''s awful that we can''t private message so that I can send these to you. I could set up a special hotmail account.

 

[FrekeChild]

I wonder if you can download the podcast.

I''m curious as to what pics you have...guess I''ll find out soon...

 

[miraclesrule]

I''m not going to post all the pictures in this thread. I had to transfer them from my mac laptop and right now, they are so big, I would have to resize them to the point that you can''t really see them close up. I just need to take a time out. I have been so busy being hopeful and this letdown is just so hurtful. I can bear just about any challenge life puts in my way, but we weren''t prepared for this.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/30/2008 9:14:32 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I know, it''s awful that we can''t private message so that I can send these to you. I could set up a special hotmail account.

Anything stopping you?

And what program do you use to reduce the pic size?

 

[chicagolawyer]

This really stinks that you are so disappointed with the dress.

Just know though that IMO guests WILL NOT be able to tell the difference. I''ve followed this thread from the beginning and call me crazy - but after carefully scrutinizing the pictures you posted at least three different times I only see two main differences from the model pic to the one on your daughter:

1) the dress in the model pic looks more white, your daughter''s dress looks more gold/ivory
2) the lining in your daughter''s dress appears to be sticking out at the bottom a bit, although it''s hard to tell if it is lining or another layer

I''ve compared each layer of the dress on the model and on your daughter and I really can''t find any difference. Maybe I''m the only one, but at least one person cannot tell the problem with the layers. And the style of the dress itself (with the multiple layers) tends to not elongate the body, so that is probably why it is difficult to tell that your daughter is 5''9"...

Hope you are able to resolve this to your satisfaction, and that most importantly your daughter is happy. Good luck!

 

[Neveah]

Date: 6/30/2008 10:15:33 PM
Author: chicagolawyer
This really stinks that you are so disappointed with the dress.

Just know though that IMO guests WILL NOT be able to tell the difference. I''ve followed this thread from the beginning and call me crazy - but after carefully scrutinizing the pictures you posted at least three different times I only see two main differences from the model pic to the one on your daughter:

1) the dress in the model pic looks more white, your daughter''s dress looks more gold/ivory
2) the lining in your daughter''s dress appears to be sticking out at the bottom a bit, although it''s hard to tell if it is lining or another layer

I''ve compared each layer of the dress on the model and on your daughter and I really can''t find any difference. Maybe I''m the only one, but at least one person cannot tell the problem with the layers. And the style of the dress itself (with the multiple layers) tends to not elongate the body, so that is probably why it is difficult to tell that your daughter is 5''9''...

Hope you are able to resolve this to your satisfaction, and that most importantly your daughter is happy. Good luck!

I was just going to post EXACTLY that!!!

Not to discount WHATSOEVER this bs runaround that you''re going through miracles... but I can''t SEE a huge problem (I''m not a seamstress and to your "regular non seamstress person" the dress on your daughter looks so similar to the model picture) I think your daughter looks absolutely stunning and no one will know it''s not perfect. I don''t think for a minute you should abandon this dress... it is the dress of both of your dreams and this situation sucks and is so unfortunate... you should proceed with every action to make sure you''re compensated... but you have (less than) 4 weeks. You can make this one work!!! Just my two cents of course

I swear I can''t see this as being anywhere near unwearable!!!
GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[SarahLovesJS]

I am sorry you got such a negative response! God that is HORRIBLE.

That was the designer correct? She seriously should be more concerned.

Some people are just so rude. Hang in there Miracles, it will work out. I have to vote post-wedding lawsuit.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 6/30/2008 10:05:36 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 6/30/2008 9:14:32 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I know, it''s awful that we can''t private message so that I can send these to you. I could set up a special hotmail account.

Anything stopping you?

And what program do you use to reduce the pic size?

I have been using paint to resize them so I can post them. But when I sent them to my hotmail account, they aren''t opening in anything other than Fireworks...grrrrrrrrr.....

What I can''t do is figure out a way to get two pics on the screen side by side.

I have Fireworks, which I can''t use for crap. I have them all resized and think I can see what''s throwing the dress all off, but without seeing the original pics from the sample she tried on side by side with the ones we took last Tuesday and Wednesay night, I can''t troubleshoot. It''s driving me loo-loo. My daughter said, "Just send them to me and I can have DF put them side by side" (he is a graphic designer) And I said "Honey, you don''t want DF to see your dress do you?" She said..."Oh s**t, that''s right...d****it!"

So I wait for someone who has some graphic arts skills to give me an assist.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/30/2008 11:21:58 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady
Miracles, I think if you ask they administrators, you could send it to them who would ask Freke.. ?

Hey, go for it. I don't mind wedding dress spam.

I'd love to help you out. See if the admins can hook us up. Or I can ask, if you'd like.

 

[miraclesrule]

I was able to get them all into a Word document but can't get the side by side in one .jpg like Freke was able to to. After looking at them as only an analyst like myself can do, I was able to see several things that are throwing it off. It wouldn't make sense to go into here, but at least I can print the document out on a color printer and take it with us thisThursday and show the seamstess what is happening. There are four points that are not working properly that are skewing the fit, and I just hope to God we can fix them. I know what they are...and I am not crazy. It's visable. It's probably not something that everyone would notice...but I am like Tim Gunn. I still love to seat in a doctor's waiting room just so I can find the hidden pictures in that kid's magazine. I also love to notice the picture changes that they do in that other rag mag now where you have to find the changes they made in a side by side. I get them right every time. That and the fact that my eye is drawn to any typo in a document. It's a blessing and a curse.

But since one of the Roth's is going to be a consultant on Project Runway Australia...he should be able to appreciate my eye. It's not different than the eye many of you woman have for diamonds and other fine rocks. I may not know diddly about the 4 C's and shanks, and girdles and galleries and pave...yet, but I do know about making clothes and more importantly, replicating them.

My eye just happens to be focused on my daughter's dress. That, and the fact that she doesn't want the dress to fall off and expose all the guests to what her Momma gave her.

 

[WishfulThinking]

I have been following this thread since it began, lurking in the shadows sending PS dust your way [

] and hoping it would get resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.

Well, we all know how that went.

I can't BELIEVE this is happening to you. It's horrible and despicable that they didn't give you 100% perfect service, not only because, but especially at, the price you paid for this dress. Your daughter deserves nothing less than perfection, and at the very least what you ordered.

That they can't follow through with this is absolutely insane.

I am rooting for you, and hoping that by some miracle [after all-miracles rule!

] the bridal salon is able to fix this mess for you. Otherwise, I know you are beyond competent and will do whatever it takes to make sure your daughter's special day and beautiful dress are executed correctly. The bottom line, though, is that you shouldn't *have* to bear that responsibility.

I hope this all works out. You are a kick-bum mom for making sure it will.

ETA: While I see the parts of the dress that you're unhappy with and agree that they should be fixed and don't look perfect in the least, your daughter would look gorgeous dressed in rags or paper towels; anything. She is perfectly beautiful, and no dress, wonky or otherwise, is going to hide that!

 

[miraclesrule]

wishfulthinking: So true!! As I said, she would look good in a gunny sack, but we didn't pay that much for her to be holding up a gunny sack.

Here is a picture of her holding up the top of the dress, but the top is beautiful....

 

[miraclesrule]

Here's a picture I snapped of her as she was a little down and looking at the dress she loves so much. It's one of the better pictures although because they had to take it in so much (despite the "in denial" email from the designer) it lifted a lot so she is barefoot as well. It had been steamed and pressed, but the additional crinoline has not yet added so you can see how the bottom layers (especially the third tier) are still a bit lifeless. I think we have addressed that issue already and hope that is taken care of by Thursday. I swear it looks like she has a halo aura over her head.

 

[mia1181]

Miracles- Do you still need help getting the 2 pics on 1 jpeg?

In Paint:

1. Open Pic1 and resize it if necessary
2. Under "Edit" click "Select All"
3. Under "Edit" click "Copy"
4. Open Pic2 and resize if necessary
5. Make sure to stretch the canvas (I think that''s what it''s called) that''s the white part the picture is in. There will be a tiny box in the lower right hand corner of your picture and when you drag it out you will see the canvas behind the pic stretch. Make it big enough to fit Pic1 next to Pic2.
6. Under "Edit" click "Paste"
7. Move pic 1 next to Pic2
8. When you save it make sure to "Save As" and under File Name where it says "File Type" choose jpeg

Hope that helps, sorry you are in this situation. Your daughter is lucky to have you for an advocate though. Oh and the detail on the bodice is gorgeous!

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 6/30/2008 10:15:33 PM
Author: chicagolawyer
This really stinks that you are so disappointed with the dress.

Just know though that IMO guests WILL NOT be able to tell the difference. I''ve compared each layer of the dress on the model and on your daughter and I really can''t find any difference. Maybe I''m the only one, but at least one person cannot tell the problem with the layers. And the style of the dress itself (with the multiple layers) tends to not elongate the body, so that is probably why it is difficult to tell that your daughter is 5''9''...!

Hmmm.... Look again. There is a lot of detail and lot going on with this design, but it works because there is a certain amount of order in the skirt. Each tier hangs nicely in the original, and the tiers are evenly spaced (and flounced) up to the point where they''re gathered up. On MR''s dd'' dress, the tiers are uneven in both length and fullness (and that''s aside from the question of how it fits). While guests might not be able to pick up on that without a side-by-side comparison, it''s not the rich look that DD thought she was getting. The train also looks lopsided, like it was attached wrong.... MR, please tell us that was just a bad camera angle!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 7/1/2008 1:23:27 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Here''s a picture I snapped of her as she was a little down and looking at the dress she loves so much. It''s one of the better pictures although because they had to take it in so much (despite the ''in denial'' email from the designer) it lifted a lot so she is barefoot as well. It had been steamed and pressed, but the additional crinoline has not yet added so you can see how the bottom layers (especially the third tier) are still a bit lifeless. I think we have addressed that issue already and hope that is taken care of by Thursday. I swear it looks like she has a halo aura over her head.

Good grief, she looks like one of those amazing intricate porcelain figurines that costs thousands of dollars.

That picture shows the layer problem VERY well. That is definitely not right.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 7/1/2008 1:31:09 AM
Author: MINIMS

Date: 6/30/2008 10:15:33 PM
Author: chicagolawyer
This really stinks that you are so disappointed with the dress.

Just know though that IMO guests WILL NOT be able to tell the difference. I''ve compared each layer of the dress on the model and on your daughter and I really can''t find any difference. Maybe I''m the only one, but at least one person cannot tell the problem with the layers. And the style of the dress itself (with the multiple layers) tends to not elongate the body, so that is probably why it is difficult to tell that your daughter is 5''9''...!

Hmmm.... Look again. There is a lot of detail and lot going on with this design, but it works because there is a certain amount of order in the skirt. Each tier hangs nicely in the original, and the tiers are evenly spaced (and flounced) up to the point where they''re gathered up. On MR''s dd'' dress, the tiers are uneven in both length and fullness (and that''s aside from the question of how it fits). While guests might not be able to pick up on that without a side-by-side comparison, it''s not the rich look that DD thought she was getting. The train also looks lopsided, like it was attached wrong.... MR, please tell us that was just a bad camera angle!

MINIMS: I love you. There is a certain amount of order that was supposed to be there. And it will be. It will be. It will be. At this point, if the train jumps the track, we can always bustle it...if they can get that right.

mia: Thank you so much. I will try that right now.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 7/1/2008 1:36:59 AM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 7/1/2008 1:23:27 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Here''s a picture I snapped of her as she was a little down and looking at the dress she loves so much. It''s one of the better pictures although because they had to take it in so much (despite the ''in denial'' email from the designer) it lifted a lot so she is barefoot as well. It had been steamed and pressed, but the additional crinoline has not yet added so you can see how the bottom layers (especially the third tier) are still a bit lifeless. I think we have addressed that issue already and hope that is taken care of by Thursday. I swear it looks like she has a halo aura over her head.

Good grief, she looks like one of those amazing intricate porcelain figurines that costs thousands of dollars.

That picture shows the layer problem VERY well. That is definitely not right.

Yeah, she does. And it was about 4K to be exact. Although, if you count all the

I had to spend on her over the last nearly 29 years, she''s worth at least a few Million.

I agree, the bottom tier problem is very evident.