Leon Mege – what just happened and why?

[mrssalvo]

Date: 2/16/2010 5:15:01 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
I am confused - wasn''t this an ering? I don''t think you should give up on the whole thing just because the setting is more than you want to pay.

I agree! If that is the Leon ring your gal wants, can you buy a little bit less expensive cushion so you could still do the whole package or just wait a couple of months and save up for the setting?

oh and yes, most vendors will at least re-package the item being returned so that it can be picked up.

 

[reggie]

Date: 2/16/2010 5:09:27 PM
Author: lulu
Reggie, my point is now that he's selling an 'antique cushion' of his own maybe he was trying to get you to switch to his cushion cut. Maybe her doesn't want to set any other cushion.

lulu - That's possible. It appears he does have a beef with at least one antique cushion vendor. Besides Mark at ERD and Jon at GOG who else around here is known to source antique cushions for people? I have highlights the part that I am referencing too.


Reference Leon:

"In collaboration with my fellow artisans Benjamin Krik and his father Froim cutters of antique cushion diamonds for several generations I am proud to announce that I will be supplying and actively promoting their incredibly beautiful stones to general public. Of course I will continue to set your stones purchased on the open market as well. You are free to choose your own supplier - this is the corner stone of my philosophy.

Over these years I refused to engage in the diamond trade due to the lack of time. Working at the bench with my hands I could not possibly spend few hours with a customer choosing the appropriate stone. However I grew sick and tired of seeing few unnamed brokers raping my clients by charging outlandish commissions, misrepresenting true antique cushions and bullying my customers into purchasing stones unsuitable for their designs.

I had a heartwarming conversation with Ben and the decision was made: from now on I will encourage my clients to let me source a stone. I can easily source any stone available on the market. My particular strength is in antique cushions. Benjamin's stones all have high crown, small table and usually open culet. There is a large inventory of all different colors, sizes and grades, so you are guaranteed quality/price. All stones have GIA certificates. If you like modern "crushed ice" look for your diamond I can get it from a different supplier.

Please call me or email your preferences and I will select a stone for you that is superior it it's look and sophistication and will not break your wallet."

 

[neatfreak]

So I am still confused. Aside from the shipping issue, which could have certainly been handled better, what is the problem?

He quoted you a price range, he came in within that price range, and you then tell him you can't afford it? I am confused why you sent him a stone in the first place if all but the bottom end of his range would have been out of budget?

Jewelers give you a break on the setting or stone all the time if you buy the whole package from them, same thing with car dealers if you buy 2 cars at once, B1G1 spaghetti sauce at the grocery store, etc. So unfortunately, I think it may have been your mistake to assume that the setting would be $4k based on you calculating out the cost of the setting from the total price if he were to have sold you a stone too. Just because the "setting" part of that package deal would mean that he was selling the setting for $4k doesn't mean that he has to sell you the setting for that price when not part of the package.

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pain, but maybe I am just not getting it?

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 2/16/2010 5:59:24 PM
Author: neatfreak

Sorry, I don''t mean to be a pain, but maybe I am just not getting it?

You aren''t alone - I don''t get it too.

Reggie - you are under no obligation to explain this to us but something doesn''t feel right. It almost feels like you had a change of heart and abandoned the whole project. We are here to help no matter what you decide.

I can sorta understand why Leon didn''t want to call anyone (which may have lead him to go as far to say he wasn''t packaging it). I personally would taken the coordination of the shipping on. For example, when I had to ship my diamond to the appraiser - I figured out when it was going to be sent and spoke with both party to coordinate the shipment. I followed up to make sure the package was shipped and received. From my knowledge, they did not have to call each other although they might have.

 

[Collee]

Another confused club member here.

Since the Leon was your girlfriend's dream setting, why didn't you discuss mutually agreeable modification possibilities (1/2 pave as opposed to 3/4 etc)?

Returning the stone? Really?? Why not keep the stone and focus your efforts on finding a setting (1/2 the battle)? If the setting you select is not "compatible" with the cushion shape than take advantage of GOG trade-in/upgrade policy for a different stone.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/16/2010 6:09:19 PM
Author: CharmyPoo

Date: 2/16/2010 5:59:24 PM
Author: neatfreak

Sorry, I don''t mean to be a pain, but maybe I am just not getting it?

You aren''t alone - I don''t get it too.

Reggie - you are under no obligation to explain this to us but something doesn''t feel right. It almost feels like you had a change of heart and abandoned the whole project. We are here to help no matter what you decide.

I can sorta understand why Leon didn''t want to call anyone (which may have lead him to go as far to say he wasn''t packaging it). I personally would taken the coordination of the shipping on. For example, when I had to ship my diamond to the appraiser - I figured out when it was going to be sent and spoke with both party to coordinate the shipment. I followed up to make sure the package was shipped and received. From my knowledge, they did not have to call each other although they might have.

I agree with you Charmy, but the pickle was that when it was in Leon''s hands he would not package it for the return shipment. Was this something that your appraiser did for you for the return trip? I don''t know what options are available for someone when the vendor will not even package the diamond for the return trip. This would have scared the pants off me!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 2/16/2010 6:14:39 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

I agree with you Charmy, but the pickle was that when it was in Leon''s hands he would not package it for the return shipment. Was this something that your appraiser did for you for the return trip? I don''t know what options are available for someone when the vendor will not even package the diamond for the return trip. This would have scared the pants off me!

The return trip hasn''t occured for me yet but I am in the process of coordinating the shipment. I think that something upset Leon to make him say he wasn''t packing the diamond - my guess is that he would normally have done it. It must have been packed to be sent back to GOG in the end .. unless someone from GOG went there to pick it up.

PS: I just re-read my other post and boy.. it sounds like I can''t even speak english. I should really proof read my posts.

 

[E B]

reggie,

Leon's known as a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde 'round these parts. Some people have a fantastic experience with him while others are left in tears.

If I were you, since you've gone through enough trouble as it is, I'd contact Brian/Lesley at Brian Gavin Diamonds. They have their own "signature cushion cut" which will look great in a halo since it's a brilliant cut surrounded by tiny RBs, but can source other cushions if that specific cut isn't your/your GF's style. They can show you all you want to know about which stones they have available AND will make you a similar setting within budget. Not an exact replica of the Leon, but something similar of fantastic quality. Two birds, one vendor.

That's what I'd do, anyway. Good luck!

 

[swingirl]

Date: 2/16/2010 5:59:24 PM
Author: neatfreak
So I am still confused. Aside from the shipping issue, which could have certainly been handled better, what is the problem?

He quoted you a price range, he came in within that price range, and you then tell him you can't afford it? I am confused why you sent him a stone in the first place if all but the bottom end of his range would have been out of budget?

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pain, but maybe I am just not getting it?

Me, too. When it comes to a hand made piece of jewelry I can't figure out why you think the size of the center stone would make a dramatic price difference. Placing 1 or 2 less stones in the halo isn't going to change the cost of labor. I had Leon make my ring with 120 melee stones. Each stone cost $4.00.

Leon's quote didn't change. You were just hoping he'll come in at the lower end. If the high mark was too high you shouldn't have sent your stone to him.

By the way, the LM setting you picked is fabulous and unique. You won't find it duplicated by another vendor. 4 different sized of melee and perfect millgrain! If I really wanted that setting I would give more consideration to the cushions Leon offered.

 

[yssie]

I think we're being a bit hard on reggie.


People's financial situations change, and one thing that's easy one week may not be so the next - he's under no obligation to explain that. If the two quotes were within budget earlier, but his budget had to change for unforseen reasons.. it happens, and I would certainly expect a jeweller to be more accomodating of a return shipment!


After such an experience I certainly wouldn't be saving up to give myself more headaches, no matter how unique the setting and how perfect the milgraining. Reggie, there are tons of skilled benches, and while she won't get that exact ring you may find something else you like just as much..

 

[elle_chris]

Reggie said from the start that 5k wasn''t doable even though Leon quoted him 4-5k. Honestly, I wouldn''t have sent him the stone if i knew i wouldn''t pay the high end of the price range regardless of what I thought. It''s just a dissapointment waiting to happen.

Between commiting to a setting before getting the final price that you may or may not pay, then buying the cushion specifically for a setting that you may or may not get, then returning the cushion because the setting wasn''t going to happen.. i dunno, i think the whole thing was done badly from the start.

Hopefully it works out better next time.

 

[reggie]

I feel like I have done a lousy job explaining this situation as every time I talk as there are a lot more questions than answers. I do apologize. I am trying to be as straight forward as possible.

neatfreak - My first conversation with Leon I got a verbal price range for a larger sized sapphire for 4-5k. I told him straight up I could not afford a setting for that price and I wouldn''t be able to work with him. I just could not afford or justify an increase in my budget by buying a setting from him (or anyone) at that price point. From our very first conversation he knew that 5k would be a deal breaker for me. I did not hide around that fact. Once he realized what my budget was he suggested I look at 1ct cushion diamond instead of a 1.5-2ct sapphire.

Before I sent Leon my diamond I tried to get a quote specific to the 1ct cushion diamond that I purchased. He refused because he didn''t want to do the work twice. I did not end up sending it to him because I thought the price would fall between 4-5k on a quote based a 1.5-2ct sapphire. I sent it to him because we had a conversation that I couldn''t afford a 5k setting and we both tried to figure out a way to get the setting down to 4k.

CharmyPoo – You were one of the few people who helped me choose the av cushion so I do appreciate everything you have done to help. Because of that I am more than happy to try to explain anything you don’t understand.

Leon never said he wouldn’t package it. He told me I had to pick it up myself and he wouldn’t call anyone to pick it up for me. I don’t know if it’s fair to imply he wouldn’t package but I can see how some people could make that correlation.

My girlfriend and I looked at a lot of different settings. She had a lot of favorites from different companies. Some were b&m and some were online. Her favorite from Leon was the one I got a quote for. She let me choose one of her favorites from all the companies/settings she showed me. This way at least some part of this engagement process could be a surprise. Maybe that helps you understand why it’s easy for me to walk away from this situation. This wasn’t her favorite of all favorites. I know she likes a lot of different settings and I have a lot of options. At the time she didn’t know she lost out on a Leon but even then to her Leon is like everyone else. She doesn’t read this forum. I think a lot of people think I’m nuts that I was so close to the Holy Grail and stopped so close near the end of the journey but I don’t think of it in those terms. For that particular style of setting I think he was the best. In my opinions he isn’t the best for all setting types. I think there are other reputable companies with great designs from which to choose from.

I personally think Leon was upset that I used GOG to get my cushion. Maybe he thinks GOG is one of those “unnamed brokers raping my clients by charging outlandish commissions, misrepresenting true antique cushions and bullying my customers into purchasing stones unsuitable for their designs.” Maybe he was trying to save myself from the evil av cushion empire. I don’t know. I don’t really care at this point. He knew what I could and couldn’t afford. He made suggestions of what I could do to afford it. I complied. I asked for a new quote based on the exact diamond and he refused.

If I have to wait for my exact price of the setting until after he receives my diamond then he shouldn’t be upset with me that he has to wait for my final purchase decision until after I received the official work order. Being told I have to fend for myself to get my diamond back because he feels slighted is not acceptable and in my opinion should not be excused by anyone.

elle chris is probably correct in saying this was done badly from the start. I am not a pro at this. I tried to do my best using a vendor which is so highly regarded on pricescope they even allow him to advertise on their website. That in itself made me think all of the stories of Leon weren’t completely accurate. Because if all of those stories were true how in this world can a site like this support this type of behavior? The advertising revenue from a vendor should not sway the opinion the owner of this type of forum. In my opinion anyone who advertises on this site should have a spotless reputation. Why? Because Pricescope is here for the consumer and new consumers like me rely on the reputation of this place to make decisions. Pure and simple. This place should be jewelry utopia.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Very nice post Reggie.

 

[CasaBlanca]

Stone goes back = NO "commission" / No profit

He touches stone, packages wrong, misaddresses package...he is responsible.

I think everyone is asking WAY too much of ANY merchant to do that. (had the work have commenced, then his insurance etc would be responsible. But storage or shipment of an item that isn''t his...no longer in contract...I completely see his agitation. No gain and so VERY much to risk if he gets involved.

Frankly, that is the reason for restocking fees. He should have a standard policy similar to a restocking fee that would have covered his time loss, paid for packaging, labeling, transporting and helped with his liability. I hope he is reading this and will see the wisdom in it. "Sure I will repackage and reship...but you are going to PAY for it if for any reason YOU change your mind or default on our CONTRACT." Which technically that is what the OP did. Unfortunately, he choose to let the emotions talk instead of explaining the business aspect.

*****

The familiar thread that weaves in the Leon deals are usually communication problems. There has rarely been anyone disappointed in the material product produced...but there is always a multitude of issues in communication.

He handled it wrong. Yeap. But artists are temperamental and sensitive. Anyone surprised by that? I don''t think so. Both the one man benches commonly mentioned here are well known to be short circuited.

Leon has spent time in this quote...time on the estimate...time measuring after the stone was purchased...scheduled bench time...production time...set aside delayed or denied other paying works...

Sure he is not happy. Sure he feels wounded. His ego took a hit as well. Should he have explained the liability/cost/time in packaging and moving the stone better? Yes. But I feel he is entitled to being a tad angry at the OP and his cancelation.

Frankly cancellations this far into the project like this one, will make him more callused for the next project. Which will further exasperate his reputation.

*****

Reggie, I am disappointed with you. I feel the shock and awe too for you. I mean no disrespect to you in my writings...but I noticed no one else touched on the imposition your cancellation posed to him. I know when you look at his work you see hundreds of thousands of dollars in huge diamond work...those were commissioned projects. His portfolio is extensive and impressive. But he is just an independent small business owner...and bottom line is making money...the hours he is at work he must turn a profit. Any distraction not working on his craft is going to get an unfavorable response.

IMO: Leon needs a front man. A contact screen-er. A person with finesse and customer service sensitivity. He is trying to do it all, and is not successful in letting loose of the reigns in delegating that aspect. It is the ONLY fault I see of the talented craftsman.

Don''t give up. The diamond you obtain from GOG or any other source known here, is still going to be head and shoulders better than any brick and mortar can offer you. GOG deserves another opportunity to prove to you just how great this type of stone sourcing is.

Shake it off...roll up your sleeves and lets find you a setting she will be happy with. This board is more than willing to support you. And all of us...have switched directions more than once...there is a way to get what you want...please don''t give up, you have come so far...you are almost there, buddy!

 

[elle_chris]

Reggie- You seem like a very nice guy and i sincerely hope you find the stone and setting that makes her heart sing. The only piece of advice I''d like to offer is to get the stone first. With the diamond in hand, quotes and settings are much easier to come by.

 

[neatfreak]

Thanks for explaining Reggie that helps me to try and understand.

But one more question. So if you told Leon that his $4-5k estimate was too high for you-why the heck did he have you send him the stone anyway? Did he imply that he would come in below that for your cushion? Or did you just assume he would?

A 1.5-2ct sapphire depending on cut, is likely to be similar in size to a 1 ct diamond. So I would have expected similar prices for those two settings actually.

Based on what you've said it seems that Leon wanted to work with you. He said send me the diamond and we will see what we can do regarding a setting. You misunderstood this as he will lower the price for THAT setting, when he meant that he could make you A setting to fit within your budget. When you said the setting was out of your pricerange and thus you wanted the stone back, Leon probably got ticked because he thought he would be making A setting regardless and was upset at the time he spent and you ultimately not getting a setting from him.

Is that possible? It sounds like there was some miscommunication somewhere and I am just trying to figure out what happened.

Anyway, that's just of course one take on the situation as we don't know what went on. But it really helps everyone to try and figure out what went wrong here so that we can try to know how to help other PSers work with Leon in the future.

Best of luck with your ring!

 

[CharmyPoo]

I appreciate the time you took to write your explanation. You didn''t owe us any but it helps the PS community to understand what you are going through. A few of us is lilkely not going to understand your logic.

Since you are starting over, you need another diamond - are you planning on changing shapes? Most of us do secure the diamond first regardless of the setting. The setting shouldn''t dictate what our diamond looks like.

If you want to head back to the sapphire route, drop by the colored forum to get help finding it. It is actually even more difficult to get a colored stone than a diamond.

 

[whitby_2773]

hi reggie

i''m sorry this happened to you. i understand being new at this and not comprehending vendors with whom you think you''ve been clear who appear to offer a service and who then seem to want to work the cost of ''time spent'' doing things like measuring, sourcing stones, etc into their quote. i''m sorry you didn''t get the end result of a beautiful leon ring.

i currently have one ring in with leon being made and have requested a quote for a second ring. much as i love his work, i know that it''s a bit like throwing yourself off a cliff when you order from him. and a budget is a budget; it''s all well and good to say ''why not just pay a bit extra?'' but those ol'' dollars dont grow on trees!

but can i just say....

personally, i was always on board with the sapphire idea. i think a halo sapphire, even if not made by leon, would be GORGEOUS. if i was in your shoes, i would go with von bargens in new hampshire, and the wonderful barrett salzmann; he''s a master jeweler who trained under 2 master jewelers himself and his work is STUNNING.

take a look at this...

click on the ''enlarge'' option, and you''ll get half a dozen other photos of the ring in production. i think this is stunning and i cant imagine a woman alive who wouldn''t love something like this!

good luck and please - keep us posted!

 

[swingirl]

You are further ahead of the game if your gf is not set on any one setting. If you want to work with someone who takes customer service to another level consider Brian Gavin Diamonds. And have you considered GOG? They have name brand designer settings and offer custom work using Ocean Pearlman.

You need to make this whole ring-buying experience better than what you've had so far. Move on from Leon. His work is beautiful and expensive but his communication...not so much.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/16/2010 2:03:52 PM
Author:reggie


I’m not sure if any of you remember me but a few weeks ago I was asking for anyone’s advice on which cushion I should buy. You can find that thread here. I ended up buying the august vintage cushion 1.04 H VS2.

Early last week I had my diamond sent to Leon Mege directly from Good Old Gold. Last Thursday Leon via Rachael (one of his associates) sent me the official work order. The quote on the work order was more than I was initially told and subsequently budgeted for therefore I will not be able to afford my ring made by him.

As of today my diamond has been returned to GOG although that was an adventure in itself.

If anyone is ever in the market to buy this halo setting from Leon I was ultimately quoted 5k in labor. (Melee weight section quoted $1100 per carat in addition to labor for all melee work but did not give an estimated weight so it was probably included in labor price???) This setting is a 2 star price based on his 5 star price ratings.

I have explained the reason why I ended up breaking my anticipate budget below. After that I have explained how I tried to have my diamond returned to GOG.

I do apologize that this post will be so long but I wanted it to be in detail so if anyone on this forum ever starts to have this situation happen to them they know what to expect. Hopefully other potential customers can learn how to deal with the situation differently next time. I do have a couple questions regarding the quote and shipping procedures which I ask later on. Please feel free to chime in on any of those questions.

Reggie,

I am late to this thread but I can see things have gotten way off track. Please do not take Leon or the posts in this thread personally if you understand the context in which they are made you will not be quite as offended. Leon is a difficult benchman/artist who thinks his time and his opinion are very valuable. His behaviour is sometimes not as customer service oriented as people would like but he gets away with this because his finished product is excellent and few other sources can match the style and delicate touches of his pieces. As others have commented he really does need an experienced frontperson whose time is not quite as valuable and who is willing to hold customer's hands and make sure the expectations of the customer and Leon match and the communication is done properly.

I was interested in your situation and if you posted the two quotes I would have told you melee is not included and will be added to the final price. Labour includes the metal and workmanship only, but Leon prefers not to guess on the carat weight of the melee so that is added afterwards.

There is no way this ring would have ever come in at 4k, a much simpler and less labour intensive (smaller diamonds too) Adrianna 811 would cost about $4000 and that was 6 months ago when platinum was a little cheaper. The setting you like is much more intricate and likely has bigger diamonds in it as well. Without posting the actual quotes in cut and paste or a screenshot I couldn't comment any further on this aspect, but I am willing to bet there was some misccomunication and it really isn't important who is to blame for this. Neither you nor the other posters should focus on this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

That being said if you still like chunky faceted antique cushions you will be hard pressed to find one with better light performance than the AVC.
I don't care who Leon's source is for cushions, they are unproven and highly unlikely to compare favourable to what ERD or GOG can source for you period. If you care about light performance the diamonds he can source will never come close to an AVC. I can guarantee Leon doesn't want to get into a discussion nor does he have the experience to properly evaulate the light performance of cushion cuts. When I started my cushion search Leon had some very strong and very inaccurate opinions on Fluroescence which he shared with me while knocking down a potentiall cushion I was considering. What is dangerous about Leon is that he is well respected for his settings and unsuspecting customers may think he is experienced with sourcing diamonds as well which could not be further from the truth.

Leon views GOG and ERD as competitors and he is extremely cognizant of the competitiion those two pose to his operation particularly when it comes to ERD who has an office near his location. Leon does not want any of his competitors to copy his designs or rings, so he is often extremely uncooperative with customers who source their stones elsewhere. ERD makes settings, and GOG has many sources for settings and as such Leon is extremely worried about his rings being copied by them. Over the years Leon has made it difficult for customers wishing to work with one of those vendors and himself. I would reccomend that you contact GOG and they can assist you in returning your stone if that is really what you want to do.

-------------

That being said I think you should consider your options carefully before returning the stone. There are so many settings that go extremely well with that cushion, the HW micropave, Tacori 2620, a Leon Solitaire like Boston Jeff's ring, even Leon's Adrianna 811 and many many others. While I can tell you that few jeweler's can match the small delicate prongs of Leon's pave work, or the smooth sleek lines of his shanks and baskets, there are some excellent CAD/CAM designers, Mark at ERD did a HW micropave for my Fiance, BGD has been known to do excellent Tiffany Novo inspired settings called the Novela, and there are many others.
----------------

Overall I know you are upset by the return shipping, and communication problems, but hopefully you can see past this and will consider your options before taking further action.
I hope everything works out for you and would be interested to see what direction you decide to take.

Sincerely,
CCL

 

[Laila619]

Date: 2/16/2010 9:41:51 PM
Author: neatfreak
Thanks for explaining Reggie that helps me to try and understand.

But one more question. So if you told Leon that his $4-5k estimate was too high for you-why the heck did he have you send him the stone anyway? Did he imply that he would come in below that for your cushion? Or did you just assume he would?

A 1.5-2ct sapphire depending on cut, is likely to be similar in size to a 1 ct diamond. So I would have expected similar prices for those two settings actually.

Based on what you''ve said it seems that Leon wanted to work with you. He said send me the diamond and we will see what we can do regarding a setting. You misunderstood this as he will lower the price for THAT setting, when he meant that he could make you A setting to fit within your budget. When you said the setting was out of your pricerange and thus you wanted the stone back, Leon probably got ticked because he thought he would be making A setting regardless and was upset at the time he spent and you ultimately not getting a setting from him.

Is that possible? It sounds like there was some miscommunication somewhere and I am just trying to figure out what happened.

Anyway, that''s just of course one take on the situation as we don''t know what went on. But it really helps everyone to try and figure out what went wrong here so that we can try to know how to help other PSers work with Leon in the future.

Best of luck with your ring!

Reggie stated that Leon himself suggested a 1 carat diamond instead of the 1.5-2 ct sapph, to lower the quote.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/16/2010 11:03:51 PM
Author: swingirl
You are further ahead of the game if your gf is not set on any one setting. If you want to work with someone who takes customer service to another level consider Brian Gavin Diamonds. And have you considered GOG? They have name brand designer settings and offer custom work using Ocean Pearlman.

You need to make this whole ring-buying experience better than what you've had so far. Move on from Leon. His work is beautiful and expensive but his communication...not so much.

I would put Ocean's work in the same league as Leon, and both well above any of the CAD/CAM jewelers on pricescope. Also her communication and willingness to work until the customer is satisfied is night and day different from Leon.

 

[SpareMyWallet]

Date: 2/16/2010 11:45:05 PM
Author: Laila619

Reggie stated that Leon himself suggested a 1 carat diamond instead of the 1.5-2 ct sapph, to lower the quote.

THANK YOU. As for you other posters, my goodness, some of you women have some serious reading comprehension issues.

There was a thread referencing contacting vendors too often. That poster mentioned returning earrings to BGD because they were too small, and returning an e-ring to BGD because the proposal went sour. BGD, despite the "labor hours, bench hours, blahblah pms" lost, Lesley still made you feel like her most important customer.

and lets not forget GOG. What exceptional service from GOG, despite losing the sale!


**Edited by moderator. No inappropriate language on Pricescope please**

BGD, thank you for your awesome service.
GOG, your videos are a treat to watch. thank you.

 

[elle_chris]

From Reggies initial post "He then said he could source me a 1 ct diamond cushion if I would be interested in a cushion diamond instead. He said that would bring down the price of the setting but I would still be over my total budget""
Leon said he''d lower the price if Leon provided the stone. Not GOG, ERD or anyone else.

I can see how Reggie would just think that any 1ct cushion would bring the price down but that''s not what Leon said. Like a few of us said earlier, getting a discount when purchasing the setting and diamond from the same source is common.

None of us have reading comprehension issues. We get it.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/17/2010 8:02:45 AM
Author: elle_chris
From Reggies initial post ''He then said he could source me a 1 ct diamond cushion if I would be interested in a cushion diamond instead. He said that would bring down the price of the setting but I would still be over my total budget''''
Leon said he''d lower the price if Leon provided the stone. Not GOG, ERD or anyone else.

I can see how Reggie would just think that any 1ct cushion would bring the price down but that''s not what Leon said. Like a few of us said earlier, getting a discount when purchasing the setting and diamond from the same source is common.

None of us have reading comprehension issues. We get it.

Yes and given the same 4 Cs it certainly would, there is a premium for AVC cushions. Leon will often try to find the customer a stone in their budget, he will ignore your preferred specs and just find one so that you can afford leaving enough money to pay for his high priced setting.

 

[arjunajane]

Reggie,

just like a woman wearing the clothes and not the clothes wearing the woman - I feel personally this is the best way to approach an engagement ring...

AVC diamonds will shine in almost any setting style - I do believe finding the "perfect setting" than trying to make the diamond fit it is a lil bit back to front -
but if you are going to decide to work with a great custom vendor such as BGD or WF, with excellent customer service and patience, it can be done well.

Leon is clearly not the vendor for you in this scenario, I''m sorry you had to experience that stress.

 

[karpouzi]

Date: 2/16/2010 9:37:03 PM
Author: CasaBlanca
Stone goes back = NO ''commission'' / No profit

He touches stone, packages wrong, misaddresses package...he is responsible.

I think everyone is asking WAY too much of ANY merchant to do that. (had the work have commenced, then his insurance etc would be responsible. But storage or shipment of an item that isn''t his...no longer in contract...I completely see his agitation. No gain and so VERY much to risk if he gets involved.

Frankly, that is the reason for restocking fees. He should have a standard policy similar to a restocking fee that would have covered his time loss, paid for packaging, labeling, transporting and helped with his liability. I hope he is reading this and will see the wisdom in it. ''Sure I will repackage and reship...but you are going to PAY for it if for any reason YOU change your mind or default on our CONTRACT.'' Which technically that is what the OP did. Unfortunately, he choose to let the emotions talk instead of explaining the business aspect.

*****

The familiar thread that weaves in the Leon deals are usually communication problems. There has rarely been anyone disappointed in the material product produced...but there is always a multitude of issues in communication.

He handled it wrong. Yeap. But artists are temperamental and sensitive. Anyone surprised by that? I don''t think so. Both the one man benches commonly mentioned here are well known to be short circuited.

Leon has spent time in this quote...time on the estimate...time measuring after the stone was purchased...scheduled bench time...production time...set aside delayed or denied other paying works...

Sure he is not happy. Sure he feels wounded. His ego took a hit as well. Should he have explained the liability/cost/time in packaging and moving the stone better? Yes. But I feel he is entitled to being a tad angry at the OP and his cancelation.

Frankly cancellations this far into the project like this one, will make him more callused for the next project. Which will further exasperate his reputation.

*****

Reggie, I am disappointed with you. I feel the shock and awe too for you. I mean no disrespect to you in my writings...but I noticed no one else touched on the imposition your cancellation posed to him. I know when you look at his work you see hundreds of thousands of dollars in huge diamond work...those were commissioned projects. His portfolio is extensive and impressive. But he is just an independent small business owner...and bottom line is making money...the hours he is at work he must turn a profit. Any distraction not working on his craft is going to get an unfavorable response.

IMO: Leon needs a front man. A contact screen-er. A person with finesse and customer service sensitivity. He is trying to do it all, and is not successful in letting loose of the reigns in delegating that aspect. It is the ONLY fault I see of the talented craftsman.

Don''t give up. The diamond you obtain from GOG or any other source known here, is still going to be head and shoulders better than any brick and mortar can offer you. GOG deserves another opportunity to prove to you just how great this type of stone sourcing is.

Shake it off...roll up your sleeves and lets find you a setting she will be happy with. This board is more than willing to support you. And all of us...have switched directions more than once...there is a way to get what you want...please don''t give up, you have come so far...you are almost there, buddy!

There can''t be any contract until there is an offer (i.e., a quote from Leon). If Leon refuses to give a quote until he receives the stone, he should work with the customer in the event they can''t come to an agreement. Reggie didn''t breach any contract. Leon said he needed to see the stone, he saw it and the quote was unacceptable to Reggie.

Are you suggesting that there was a contract as soon as Reggie sent the stone--so Leon could name any price he wished and Reggie would be contractually obligated to pay it?

As for Leon''s time in coming up with a quote, that''s a cost of doing business like anything else. If he wants to avoid losing time in quoting projects that never go forward, he can charge a deposit for that time or a "restocking fee" as you suggest. He has probably (like most merchants) decided that such a deposit would scare away more potential customers than it would be worth so he takes this time upon himself. That''s his decision, a business decision, and he is stuck with the negative consequences of it (occasional lost time in quotes that don''t materialize into a final project) just like he reaps the positives (increased numbers of quotes leading to increased orders).

 

[tyty333]

Date: 2/16/2010 11:45:05 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 2/16/2010 9:41:51 PM
Author: neatfreak
Thanks for explaining Reggie that helps me to try and understand.

But one more question. So if you told Leon that his $4-5k estimate was too high for you-why the heck did he have you send him the stone anyway? Did he imply that he would come in below that for your cushion? Or did you just assume he would?

A 1.5-2ct sapphire depending on cut, is likely to be similar in size to a 1 ct diamond. So I would have expected similar prices for those two settings actually.

Based on what you''ve said it seems that Leon wanted to work with you. He said send me the diamond and we will see what we can do regarding a setting. You misunderstood this as he will lower the price for THAT setting, when he meant that he could make you A setting to fit within your budget. When you said the setting was out of your pricerange and thus you wanted the stone back, Leon probably got ticked because he thought he would be making A setting regardless and was upset at the time he spent and you ultimately not getting a setting from him.

Is that possible? It sounds like there was some miscommunication somewhere and I am just trying to figure out what happened.

Anyway, that''s just of course one take on the situation as we don''t know what went on. But it really helps everyone to try and figure out what went wrong here so that we can try to know how to help other PSers work with Leon in the future.

Best of luck with your ring!

Reggie stated that Leon himself suggested a 1 carat diamond instead of the 1.5-2 ct sapph, to lower the quote.

Yep, thats where the misunderstanding took place.

Leon should have communicated with reggie (IMO) that the lower price was only in affect if the stone was sourced
by Leon.

Sorry reggie...I hope/know you will find the setting/stone that will make her eyes pop. Take some time to regroup
and figure out your next move. Dont forget to ask for help here when you need it. It will all come together in the
end.

 

[Laila619]

Yes, good luck! I''m sure you will still find something fabulous.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/17/2010 9:06:30 AM
Author: tyty333

Date: 2/16/2010 11:45:05 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 2/16/2010 9:41:51 PM
Author: neatfreak
Thanks for explaining Reggie that helps me to try and understand.

But one more question. So if you told Leon that his $4-5k estimate was too high for you-why the heck did he have you send him the stone anyway? Did he imply that he would come in below that for your cushion? Or did you just assume he would?

A 1.5-2ct sapphire depending on cut, is likely to be similar in size to a 1 ct diamond. So I would have expected similar prices for those two settings actually.

Based on what you''ve said it seems that Leon wanted to work with you. He said send me the diamond and we will see what we can do regarding a setting. You misunderstood this as he will lower the price for THAT setting, when he meant that he could make you A setting to fit within your budget. When you said the setting was out of your pricerange and thus you wanted the stone back, Leon probably got ticked because he thought he would be making A setting regardless and was upset at the time he spent and you ultimately not getting a setting from him.

Is that possible? It sounds like there was some miscommunication somewhere and I am just trying to figure out what happened.

Anyway, that''s just of course one take on the situation as we don''t know what went on. But it really helps everyone to try and figure out what went wrong here so that we can try to know how to help other PSers work with Leon in the future.

Best of luck with your ring!

Reggie stated that Leon himself suggested a 1 carat diamond instead of the 1.5-2 ct sapph, to lower the quote.

Yep, thats where the misunderstanding took place.

Leon should have communicated with reggie (IMO) that the lower price was only in affect if the stone was sourced
by Leon.

Sorry reggie...I hope/know you will find the setting/stone that will make her eyes pop. Take some time to regroup
and figure out your next move. Dont forget to ask for help here when you need it. It will all come together in the
end.

Leon sets the setting price it is independant of who sources the centre stone. Leon has stated many times in the past he is not making a profit on the centre stone and therefore this is not simply a package price, the overall cost would be lowered because the centre stone would be cheaper.

This may have changed most recently but I have never seen Leon change a setting price because he did or did not source the centre. Leon still seperates the price of the stone from the setting in his quotes and one can still price the diamonds and notice that they are not discounted.