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Las Vegas shooting

Arcadian

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Any weapon with a clip that you can buy at a legal gun store in many states will be a semi Aut. Can you get a basic six shooter? sure. But most people don't carry them, they do use them for home defense. I won't discuss what I use for home defense, just that I have layers.

At the time of that incident I lived in Massachusetts. I was walking back from an event to my car in The Commons parking garage. That evening I carried a .45 S&W 1911. 9+1 clip is standard in Massachusetts. In fact, you could not get anything more than that legally. Each state can have their own laws about that. I don't carry a cute weapon. Cute won't get you out of a life or death situation.

The guy followed me to my car, and my car was the only one in that area. Like I said prior, I don't carry because I want to kill people. I in fact do things to avoid having to draw because I want to be sure of the intent of the person. He was willing to follow me around until I drew my weapon, which I didn't do until I knew I could not shake this guy.

I had to go through some therapy after that incident for a couple of reasons. I'm a fighter, and frankly, I didn't survive cancer twice to not go down without a fight. But even with that, there was some moral guilt I had to work through because when you draw, you also have to have intent, even if you do so legally.

I'm thankful my training helped me keep a cool head during that and I didn't fall apart. But I was rattled afterwards and got help to put it in perspective.

There are people who carry that you would have no clue; young ,old, male, female. They don't advertise it, they don't discuss it, they just do. No one would look at me and say, oh she carries, blah blah blah. Most people who carry are not not interested in breaking the law, or looking for a fight.

This guy was a domestic terrorist. He broke the law. If not with a gun it would have been with something else because breaking the law is not about the tool but about the person. If he had decided to rent a truck, fill it with explosives, and run that through a crowd of people and blew up the truck, would it have been any better? My answer is no. To me they're equality as bad.

If he decided to use pressure cookers and blow them up, would that be any better? No. And for what its worth, several stores took pressure cookers off the shelves in Mass for a time.

By whatever means, he did what he did and its ugly as hell. It makes me angry knowing that he did that to those people no matter how he did it.

But I wish people would not focus so handily on the weapon, but on the intent of the person behind it. ANYTHING can be a weapon.
 

OreoRosies86

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Guns have been a rampant problem for years. Yes, some people use other methods to harm people. However most choose guns, guns which have no business being carried by anyone who isn't active on a battlefield.
 

monarch64

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Arcadian is exactly right and the BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives) requirements to legally own automatic weapons is closely monitored with the the ability to knock on your door for inspection with no advance notice. @Dee*Jay semi automatic weapons are used by enthusiasts and competitors alike.

I heard one blip on the news and they said it is too early to be sure but ISIS is claiming responsibility. I am sure we will know more as the investigation unfolds. I can see them taking advantage of this horror. This is so awful.

The response by law enforcement was amazing to stop this carnage. I applaud them and their efforts along with first responders to help the crowd. Plus the crowd helping others. Amazing.

Seriously with the ISIS shit already? Source? Why would an old white dude have anything to do with a terrorist organization such as ISIS? Oh right, let's just hurry up and blame the Muslims. Unbelievable.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooting-what-we-know/index.html --within says no reason to believe there was a terrorist connection according to a US Official WHO WOULD ACTUALLY KNOW NOT FOX NEWS SPECULATION.
 

Calliecake

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I don't think the framers had AK 47s in mind when they wrote the Constitution. More like muskets! we don't know what they would think today. Nothing will change. The NRA is way too powerful. All sadness and pain at the loss of life. Pictures of 3 dead kids with their arms around each other. Senseless.

Unbelievably SAD. There are no words.

This country is insane. I'm so tired of hearing about how we are entitled to having these guns, it's in the Constitution. NO where in the consititution does it say that anyone should have a gun that can kills multiple people in a matter seconds. If these types of guns were outlawed and you had to spend 15 years in prison for having one in your possession maybe we could prevent some of these tragedies. At the very least it would limit the number of people killed.

The saying guns don't kill people, pleople do. Doesn't work any more. Everyone is sane until they day they are not. 58 dead and 500 injured. We are allowing this to happen. It's sick.
 

redwood66

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Thank you @Arcadian for explaining the incident and I am sorry this happened to you. I agree that the realizing the gravity of pointing a deadly weapon at another human being is a huge weight that you do not fully feel until afterwards. I have been in this position at work in order to stop an inmate from being beaten or stabbed to death. I thank God that the assailants stopped and I did not ever have to pull that trigger. Even though I did not, the emotions afterward were overwhelming and took a long time to process. But I had to be right back at work to continue protecting staff and inmates from harm.
 

redwood66

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Seriously with the ISIS shit already? Source? Why would an old white dude have anything to do with a terrorist organization such as ISIS? Oh right, let's just hurry up and blame the Muslims. Unbelievable.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooting-what-we-know/index.html --within says no reason to believe there was a terrorist connection according to a US Official WHO WOULD ACTUALLY KNOW NOT FOX NEWS SPECULATION.

They did claim it. That does not mean that it is the case which I also said. When I posted that no one had confirmed anything yet. They claim lots of things to make it seem they are more deadly than they are, which I also said. Back off with your accusatory moral superiority crap in this time of horrible terror. Or keep it up if you choose.
 
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Arcadian

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@RED, I'm sad you had to go through that. In a perfect world none of us would ever have to.

I have to say that ISIS would claim the opening of an envelope if they thought they could get traction off of it. I just saw on Yahoo news that he wasn't a part of any international group. Doesn't mean something won't come up but that's what they know right now at least.

Monarch, ISIS might be a muslim group but they are the worst kind. they don't care what color you are as long as they can use you to further their ideology. Even better if you can assimilate in western culture and not be seen.
 

tkyasx78

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I am so sad for the people who were hurt and who died and who lost family in vegas.
I am angry that yet again nothing will change, this will be dismissed again as a “unavoidable” and “ unpredictible” “ isolated” act of violence and almost guaranteed due to inaction at some point in the not so distant future, the country will yet again have the same discussion when an “unavoidable, unpredictable and isolated” act of violence takes place again.
I thought after sandy hook and the 27 children lost there that something might change. It didnt, and here we are again where we will be hearing politicans saying basically- its too hard to even try, lets all send our “ thoughts and prayers” and hope it wont happen anymore because there is no way to guarantee sucess and so WHY BOTHER TRYING.
:cry2:
 

redwood66

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@RED, I'm sad you had to go through that. In a perfect world none of us would ever have to.

I have to say that ISIS would claim the opening of an envelope if they thought they could get traction off of it. I just saw on Yahoo news that he wasn't a part of any international group. Doesn't mean something won't come up but that's what they know right now at least.

Monarch, ISIS might be a muslim group but they are the worst kind. they don't care what color you are as long as they can use you to further their ideology. Even better if you can assimilate in western culture and not be seen.

Thank you.

I definitely can see ISIS claiming something like this to boost recruitment efforts. Sick. Just sick.
 

lovedogs

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I've now seen articles saying that FBI determined no link to ISIS, but that they did try to claim responsibility for this event.
 

katharath

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I just feel sick to my stomach. So many people affected by this one man with SO MANY GUNS AND BULLETS.

Whenever I see people arguing about their right to own guns immediately after ***crowds*** of people have been mowed down by ONE PERSON, I have to say, it sure does make me feel pure disgust.

It's just heartbreaking to know that nothing will change, because people must have their guns, even at the expense of other people's lives. I'm so sad for my city today.
 

katharath

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I am so sad for the people who were hurt and who died and who lost family in vegas.
I am angry that yet again nothing will change, this will be dismissed again as a “unavoidable” and “ unpredictible” “ isolated” act of violence and almost guaranteed due to inaction at some point in the not so distant future, the country will yet again have the same discussion when an “unavoidable, unpredictable and isolated” act of violence takes place again.
I thought after sandy hook and the 27 children lost there that something might change. It didnt, and here we are again where we will be hearing politicans saying basically- its too hard to even try, lets all send our “ thoughts and prayers” and hope it wont happen anymore because there is no way to guarantee sucess and so WHY BOTHER TRYING.
:cry2:

Saw your post after my recent one - this is so how I feel.
 

whitewave

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Unbelievably SAD. There are no words.

This country is insane. I'm so tired of hearing about how we are entitled to having these guns, it's in the Constitution. NO where in the consititution does it say that anyone should have a gun that can kills multiple people in a matter seconds. If these types of guns were outlawed and you had to spend 15 years in prison for having one in your possession maybe we could prevent some of these tragedies. At the very least it would limit the number of people killed.

The saying guns don't kill people, pleople do. Doesn't work any more. Everyone is sane until they day they are not. 58 dead and 500 injured. We are allowing this to happen. It's sick.

We don't know if his guns were bought legally.
 

whitewave

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I just feel sick to my stomach. So many people affected by this one man with SO MANY GUNS AND BULLETS.

Whenever I see people arguing about their right to own guns immediately after ***crowds*** of people have been mowed down by ONE PERSON, I have to say, it sure does make me feel pure disgust.

It's just heartbreaking to know that nothing will change, because people must have their guns, even at the expense of other people's lives. I'm so sad for my city today.

How do you get rid of black market guns, though?
 

lovedogs

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I don't think I'm against gun ownership entirely, but IMHO there is no reason for any civilian to have an assault or automatic weapon. Why would someone need it? It just doesn't make sense to me. I think common sense gun control is important, and it's long past time for us to get it in the US. I'm not 100% against responsible gun ownership, especially small guns which have to be reloaded more frequently. That would go a long way to reduce the deadly effect of shooters. Plus there needs to be more mental health checks for gun owners...not to mention better care for individuals who are mentally ill in this country. It's all just a cluster fvck.
 

whitewave

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His may very well have been legally purchased. We just don't know yet.
 

whitewave

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I'm going to guess he brought the rifles in a duffel bag.
 

Hayley87

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The shooter's brother has confirmed that their father was a felon who spent years on the FBI's most-wanted list:

"Paddock was also the son of Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, a serial bank robber who ended up on the FBI Most Wanted list back in 1969 when he escaped from federal prison in Texas while serving a 20 years sentence.

The FBI kept him on the list for the next eight years, and he was eventually found one year after he was removed from the list in 1978 while outside an Oregon Bingo hall.

The agency said that the fugitive had been 'diagnosed as psychopathic' and also had possible 'suicidal tendencies.'"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Vegas-shooting-suspect-Stephen-Paddock.html

http://nypost.com/2017/10/02/vegas-gunmans-psychopath-dad-landed-on-fbis-most-wanted-list/
 

Dee*Jay

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The shooter's brother has confirmed that their father was a felon who spent years on the FBI's most-wanted list:

"Paddock was also the son of Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, a serial bank robber who ended up on the FBI Most Wanted list back in 1969 when he escaped from federal prison in Texas while serving a 20 years sentence.

The FBI kept him on the list for the next eight years, and he was eventually found one year after he was removed from the list in 1978 while outside an Oregon Bingo hall.

The agency said that the fugitive had been 'diagnosed as psychopathic' and also had possible 'suicidal tendencies.'"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Vegas-shooting-suspect-Stephen-Paddock.html

http://nypost.com/2017/10/02/vegas-gunmans-psychopath-dad-landed-on-fbis-most-wanted-list/

Boy... I have a hard time with this one... Just because dad was bad and/or mentally unstable doesn't mean that should apply by extension to the son. I do believe that anyone who takes a gun and kills/wounds close to 600 people IS mentally unstable, but I don't think the link from father to son should necessarily be a straight line.

(And that may not have been your intent at all Hayley, I'm just putting that thought out there.)
 

LLJsmom

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I’m so broken right now.
 

redwood66

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Boy... I have a hard time with this one... Just because dad was bad and/or mentally unstable doesn't mean that should apply by extension to the son. I do believe that anyone who takes a gun and kills/wounds close to 600 people IS mentally unstable, but I don't think the link from father to son should necessarily be a straight line.

(And that may not have been your intent at all Hayley, I'm just putting that thought out there.)

This is true. A tragedy like this is so horrific that there is no possible way to comprehend such evil. It is evil to me. The weight and responsibility of being a gun owner is heavy and things like this can only point to mental illness. How else can such a thing be explained other than maybe unadulterated hate?
 

Hayley87

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Boy... I have a hard time with this one... Just because dad was bad and/or mentally unstable doesn't mean that should apply by extension to the son. I do believe that anyone who takes a gun and kills/wounds close to 600 people IS mentally unstable, but I don't think the link from father to son should necessarily be a straight line.

(And that may not have been your intent at all Hayley, I'm just putting that thought out there.)

NOT at all my intention, Dee*Jay! I'd be the last person to take an "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" approach; a few of my family members suffer mental illness.

I just thought it was an interesting tidbit that no one else had posted yet. There's so little information on the shooter (no social media presence, kept to himself in the retirement community, his only legal past was a single routine traffic violation, he seemed largely estranged from his immediate family), that I just thought I'd add an article I hadn't seen posted.
 

Dee*Jay

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NOT at all my intention, Dee*Jay! I'd be the last person to take an "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" approach; a few of my family members suffer mental illness.

I just thought it was an interesting tidbit that no one else had posted yet. There's so little information on the shooter (no social media presence, kept to himself in the retirement community, his only legal past was a single routine traffic violation, he seemed largely estranged from his immediate family), that I just thought I'd add an article I hadn't seen posted.

Gotcha! And I agree, I certainly don't want some of the things associated with my parents carried down to me either.
 

whitewave

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You know, it is insane. We cancelled going to the Saints game yesterday in London because of the terror threat, and we are going to vegas in February, Canada in March and cruising to Jamaica in May.

I was secretly worried about Vegas, but didn't tell DH because we are only going to be there 1-2 nights on the way to Corvette driving school. For Canada, I am hiring a private driver to get us to Whistler from Vancouver instead of taking the shuttle, for safety and convenience reasons. I hadn't gotten around to thinking about Jamaica yet...

It's a freaking toss up... you can only be aware of surroundings and stay away from crowds, I guess. Get in shape to outrun what you can...

Crazy times we live in. A former student of mine was in Vegas last night and posted videos of their experiences. They were able to make their flight out this morning, as was scheduled. They left their hotel last night though and went straight to the airport. They were in the chaos at Route 91.

Eta: I started carrying blue nitrile gloves in my purse about a month ago-- how messed up is that?
 
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Arcadian

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Stuff is still coming out with this.

I also read he got them in his girlfriends name which if true, then they would not have been automatics unless she has a lead on illegal weapons.

I asked and there's some aftermarket stuff that can get you close but you'd have to know what you were doing. If he had mechanical know how to convert a weapon to a near automatic that can explain some things.

He does hunt though, has a hunting license. But so far nothing other than that as been said.

One thing for sure is that he had this planned. He knew he was going to either die by cop or take himself out. I think its now a matter of why. I'm hoping its not political but the arrow is pointing in that direction :(
 

soxfan

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Thank you.

I definitely can see ISIS claiming something like this to boost recruitment efforts. Sick. Just sick.

I can also see conservatives claiming it's isis to boost THEIR recruitment efforts...
 

Dee*Jay

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Stuff is still coming out with this.

I also read he got them in his girlfriends name which if true, then they would not have been automatics unless she has a lead on illegal weapons.

I asked and there's some aftermarket stuff that can get you close but you'd have to know what you were doing. If he had mechanical know how to convert a weapon to a near automatic that can explain some things.

He does hunt though, has a hunting license. But so far nothing other than that as been said.

One thing for sure is that he had this planned. He knew he was going to either die by cop or take himself out. I think its now a matter of why. I'm hoping its not political but the arrow is pointing in that direction :(

Arcadian, where did you see this? All I'm finding is commentary that he had no religious or political affiliations (that were public anyway). I really hope this doesn't out to be politically motivated because that would just be one more thing in the current political sh!t show we don't need. Ugh.
 

redwood66

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I can also see conservatives claiming it's isis to boost THEIR recruitment efforts...

You sure are something. SMDH. The FBI confirmed they claimed it. Is this what you and your cohorts really want to do at this moment?
 
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Hayley87

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Stuff is still coming out with this.

I also read he got them in his girlfriends name which if true, then they would not have been automatics unless she has a lead on illegal weapons.

I asked and there's some aftermarket stuff that can get you close but you'd have to know what you were doing. If he had mechanical know how to convert a weapon to a near automatic that can explain some things.

He does hunt though, has a hunting license. But so far nothing other than that as been said.

One thing for sure is that he had this planned. He knew he was going to either die by cop or take himself out. I think its now a matter of why. I'm hoping its not political but the arrow is pointing in that direction :(

Articles online seem to be adding and deleting tidbits constantly. In the last 15 minutes, I read on one source that two machine guns were in his hotel room (that news source has since deleted that sentence), and another source claimed that he had what appeared to be a modified .308 (that has also since disappeared from the news article).
 

Arcadian

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@Dee*Jay Nothing I've read is directly point there. I'm just deducing what is being said on news channels at the moment.

People who you would not think would do such a thing are snapping, that much we do know. Thats not taking into account the guys father. There are decent people with sh*tbag parents, but it was an interesting read to be sure.

Even if he was recruited by ISIS like they claim, it points to religious/political leanings. My belief is that the ISIS thing is background noise. They like to claim stuff so they can look "badass", the other side will claim it was them to instill fear fear of darker folks.

I hate to think it was a political statement of sorts.... It kinda feels like one though.

I just hope that he was just crazy, no political leanings. The US is already divided enough.
 
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