Las Vegas shooting

[Austina]

A gunman has been reported shooting from the Mandalay Bay on the Strip.

Reports of 2 dead and 24 injured.




https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting/722191001/

 

[arkieb1]

I just saw it on our news, terrible.... I hope all PSers and their friends and families are safe.

 

[AGBF]

I just woke up and saw this in "The New York Times". Those of you in other countries woke up earlier than we did in the United States and knew about it before most of us did. I would say, "unbelievable", but of course it not, right? It is just terrible and very, very sad. But familiar. Thank you for posting.

Deb

 

[lissyflo]

It's genuinely incomprehensible - France, Canada and the US affected in one weekend. My heart and thoughts go out to everyone affected by these tragedies: the innocent people just wanting to enjoy an evening with friends and family, plus the countless others these attacks have a knock-on effect on.

 

[AGBF]

The following was not verified by me. It was gathered off the 'net.

Gunman is 64 year old Stephen Paddock - He was shooting from 32nd floor of hotel - Gunman was confronted/killed on 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay casino. Police are searching for the gunman's female companion, Marilou Danley. Marilou Danley, a former “high-limit hostess” at a casino, was identified by the Las Vegas Sheriff as a “person of interest” in the mass shooting .... Currently there are over 20 dead and over 100 injured by the gunman.

 

[Ally T]

There are now 50 people confirmed dead. This is absolutely shocking news & my heart just bleeds for the whole world. Wtf are we doing to ourselves??!!??!!

And I've said it before so I'll say it again: guns should NOT be legal for every Joe Bloggs & his wife, anywhere in the world. They should remain in specialist & law enforcement hands only

I expect I'll get an onslaught of abuse over that statement, but I've got broad shoulders.

 

[Snowdrop13]

There are now 50 people confirmed dead. This is absolutely shocking news & my heart just bleeds for the whole world. Wtf are we doing to ourselves??!!??!!

And I've said it before so I'll say it again: guns should NOT be legal for every Joe Bloggs & his wife, anywhere in the world. They should remain in specialist & law enforcement hands only

I expect I'll get an onslaught of abuse over that statement, but I've got broad shoulders.

Well, I agree with you.

I just can't understand the level of hate that allows someone to even think of doing such a terrible thing.

My thoughts are with all those affected, and the emergency responders dealing with the aftermath.

 

[AGBF]

There are now 50 people confirmed dead.

50 dead and 200 injured! And more people may, still, die because they are in the ICU and are in operating rooms. This is the worst civilian massacre in US history according to the news. (Although I suspect they are not including massacres of Native Americans by white settlers. I believe that here in Connecticut there was one spectacular one near where I live.)

 

[katharath]

Worst mass shooting in U.S history, right? I think I saw that confirmed. In MY CITY. We've lived here about 17 years now.

I get to tell my kids about it when they wake up in a few hours (it's only 4:30 am here). They are hyper aware of current events and already afraid of the state of things due to Trump, so I'm not looking forward to it.

Just another angry old white man with a gun, apparently, so the cops here are saying it's "not terrorism", lol.

This is so sick.

 

[Austina]

Being a Brit, I'll never understand why any civilian needs this type of weapon.

I'm so sorry for the loss of lives in yet another senseless act.

 

[OreoRosies86]

So many lives gone, and for what. I'll never understand why this keeps happening.

 

[tyty333]

Why, why, why?

My thoughts are with the people of Vegas and the friends and families of those affected by this heinous crime.

 

[Scandinavian]

Horrible. Sad. Lost for words. Thoughts and prayers to all.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Being a Brit, I'll never understand why any civilian needs this type of weapon.

I'm so sorry for the loss of lives in yet another senseless act.

Being an American, I'll also never understand why any civilian needs this type of weapon.

My heart goes out to the victims and their loved ones.

 

[missy]

Another surreal nightmare of a tragedy. It is hard to comprehend why this keeps happening.
My heart goes out to all those affected by this horrible event.

Sometimes I wonder do we really need to worry about what we are doing to the environment because the way we are going man will successfully murder themselves and humans will be extinct long before we ever destroy the environment.

Or, as George Carlin says "The planet is fine, The people are f*cked"

 

[violet3]

So very sad - my heart hurts

 

[redwood66]

This is horrific and so sad. My thoughts and prayers to the families.

 

[LLJsmom]

He brought in 10 rifles into the Mandalay Bay hotel. How did that not make anyone wonder? Even one rifle would have me contacting authorities. Maybe he came in through a side door...

 

[lyra]

I can't wrap my head around this. Angry and sad.

 

[Arcadian]

My prayers are with the families of the injured and deceased.

I'm going to say something that many will not like. I'm a gun owner. A legal one. I'll remain legal unless I do something illegal.

By all rights, this man was a poster child for gun ownership. I'm talking good gun ownership.

The thing is, you're legal until you're not. From what I heard on the video, that was automatic gunfire, not semi automatic. If he had those weapons legally, then he had a federal license. Those licenses are a bit different and the background check is different. You are subject to getting ATF checks ever so often when they want to do one and its at their discretion. You are held to a different set of standards for that particular license.

And let me tell you , most gun owners do not have the type of license to legally buy automatic weapons.

Like I said I'm sure many here will not agree with what I just said.

We have background checks, we have finger prints. Depending on the state you might not be able to get a license depending on where you live (yeah looking at Massachusetts for that)

Fact of the matter is, gun ownership is a right. we have the right to do so within the confines of the law and our constitution.

When someone goes rogue, decides not to follow that law, you get what we have with Vegas, or Colorado, or any other mass shooting.

And these days its not just guns, but cars, hell, even as much as I love my instant pot, we all know those can be weapons too.

Its about intent. If you intend to break the law, nothing will stop you from doing so. This guy intended to break the law.

 

[telephone89]

So terrible. Was hearing about it on my way to work. So many innocent lives lost.

And whats also sick? Certain gun company stocks actually increased due to this. No wonder they don't want gun reform - they are directly benefiting from mass shootings.

 

[Dee*Jay]

My prayers are with the families of the injured and deceased.

I'm going to say something that many will not like. I'm a gun owner. A legal one. I'll remain legal unless I do something illegal.

By all rights, this man was a poster child for gun ownership. I'm talking good gun ownership.

The thing is, you're legal until you're not. From what I heard on the video, that was automatic gunfire, not semi automatic. If he had those weapons legally, then he had a federal license. Those licenses are a bit different and the background check is different. You are subject to getting ATF checks ever so often when they want to do one and its at their discretion. You are held to a different set of standards for that particular license.

And let me tell you , most gun owners do not have the type of license to legally buy automatic weapons.

Like I said I'm sure many here will not agree with what I just said.

We have background checks, we have finger prints. Depending on the state you might not be able to get a license depending on where you live (yeah looking at Massachusetts for that)

Fact of the matter is, gun ownership is a right. we have the right to do so within the confines of the law and our constitution.

When someone goes rogue, decides not to follow that law, you get what we have with Vegas, or Colorado, or any other mass shooting.

And these days its not just guns, but cars, hell, even as much as I love my instant pot, we all know those can be weapons too.

Its about intent. If you intend to break the law, nothing will stop you from doing so. This guy intended to break the law.

Arcadian, I understand your post. But a question: What need does a civilian have for an automatic weapon? I'm not asking about handguns or rifles or anything else, I'm asking why a civilian should have an automatic (or even a semi-automatic) weapon? Perhaps this is the kind of thing that is popular in gun clubs or used for other "recreational" purposes and because I'm outside of this universe I am simply not aware of it?

 

[AGBF]

I'm going to say something that many will not like. I'm a gun owner. A legal one. I'll remain legal unless I do something illegal.

...
​

Fact of the matter is, gun ownership is a right. we have the right to do so within the confines of the law and our constitution.

I cannot say I "do not like" what you said, Arcadian. I find nothing offensive about your point of view. I just disagree with it. I believe that the weapons of today are far too deadly to be everywhere in the United States as they are. I believe they are doing great harm to US citizens. I think we should have some recourse to self-defense.

 

[redwood66]

Arcadian is exactly right and the BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives) requirements to legally own automatic weapons is closely monitored with the the ability to knock on your door for inspection with no advance notice. @Dee*Jay semi automatic weapons are used by enthusiasts and competitors alike.

I heard one blip on the news and they said it is too early to be sure but ISIS is claiming responsibility. I am sure we will know more as the investigation unfolds. I can see them taking advantage of this horror. This is so awful.

The response by law enforcement was amazing to stop this carnage. I applaud them and their efforts along with first responders to help the crowd. Plus the crowd helping others. Amazing.

 

[Arcadian]

Arcadian, I understand your post. But a question: What need does a civilian have for an automatic weapon? I'm not asking about handguns or rifles or anything else, I'm asking why a civilian should have an automatic (or even a semi-automatic) weapon? Perhaps this is the kind of thing that is popular in gun clubs or used for other "recreational" purposes and because I'm outside of this universe I am simply not aware of it?

Dee, most weapons on the market are semi automatic. By their nature, they're safer to handle for the person that carries them. And yes, your local policemen carries a standard issue Smith and Wesson or Glock semi-automatic.

I've always as a civilian carried when it was legal to for many reasons. Mainly because as a black woman, it was very hard for black people to legally carry for many years. And today, I still do but I make sure that I do so in a legal manner.

When a person makes a conscious decision to willfully break the law, it doesn't matter what method they choose to use to do so. We've seen this time and time again.

But we're not all bad. I also have had to unfortunately draw my weapon to protect myself. What I will tell you that drawing was NOT an easy decision.There's a lot of stuff that goes on when you do that. And yeah sometimes you have to follow through to stop the threat. In my case I did not have to engage a bullet. He saw my weapon and ran. If I shot at that point, I'd been in the wrong.

Now can I expect you to truly understand that? I really don't. You might not have ever been in my shoes to know what that was like. But let me tell you this; most of us who wish to stay legal don't carry because we want to kill somebody.

To stay legal there's LOTS of rules you have to know. You have to know when you can engage, how you can engage. WHEN you can't engage. Frankly I do whatever I can to NOT engage. You have to know when you can carry and when you can't. You have to know HOW to carry without someone freaking out calling the cops and you get a brandishing charge against you.

Most states don't have automatic license so for an automatic weapon you'd need a federal license. I'm not totally familiar with Vegas or even Nevada (certain cities can have different laws than their states), I'd have to read what they have. Licenses for Automatic weaons, are not easy to get, Nor can you just go to a gun store and get one. One must pass a separate background check for it (the license). One must submit to searches by ATF. One must also register every automatic weapon with the US government. People with these types of licenses are held to a very high standard. You break the law and you lose that license.

There are laws in place for firearms. Lots of them, and some are state specific. For instance, when I lived in Massachusetts and wanted to carry in New Hampshire, I also needed that state's license to do so legally. In some states certain weapons are not available. You don't have access to certain clip sizes (in mass it was 9 +1 rounds)

As I've said before if you (general you) choose to break the law, and willfully do so, then you are outside of the confines of that law. People who drink 3 glasses of wine then go for a drive 30 minutes later are breaking the law.

This guy, whoever he is, broke the law and very willfully did so. His intent to do harm made him a criminal.

 

[Tekate]

I don't think the framers had AK 47s in mind when they wrote the Constitution. More like muskets! we don't know what they would think today. Nothing will change. The NRA is way too powerful. All sadness and pain at the loss of life. Pictures of 3 dead kids with their arms around each other. Senseless.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Red and Arcadian, thank you for the info on semi-automatic weapons. I truly don't know a thing about guns. I guess my post then should have read:

Arcadian, I understand your post. But a question: What need does a civilian have for an automatic weapon? I'm not asking about handguns or rifles or anything else, I'm asking why a civilian should have an automatic (DELETE --> or even a semi-automatic) weapon? Perhaps this is the kind of thing that is popular in gun clubs or used for other "recreational" purposes and because I'm outside of this universe I am simply not aware of it?

I also agree that then a person chooses to break the law he or she will do so. Someone could get on a rooftop and use a bow and arrow (which I don't think you need a license for...?), or lots of other means, and still kill people. Bad people will find a way.

So sad though. This and all of the other incidents, regardless of the weapon used.

 

[Tekate]

I understand what you say Arcadian. You follow the law. It's all about rights, who's rights matter more? For me, the right to protect yourself is fair enough. But, these rapid rifles and guns, nope. If he had to stop and reload after 10 shots maybe there wouldn't be as many dead. . What is a militia?

a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

• a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities, typically in opposition to a regular army.
• all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.

We have swung so far right that being part of militia means we can carry murderous weapons that can and do reach the masses. Lucky us.

Dee, most weapons on the market are semi automatic. By their nature, they're safer to handle for the person that carries them. And yes, your local policemen carries a standard issue Smith and Wesson or Glock semi-automatic.

I've always as a civilian carried when it was legal to for many reasons. Mainly because as a black woman, it was very hard for black people to legally carry for many years. And today, I still do but I make sure that I do so in a legal manner.

When a person makes a conscious decision to willfully break the law, it doesn't matter what method they choose to use to do so. We've seen this time and time again.

But we're not all bad. I also have had to unfortunately draw my weapon to protect myself. What I will tell you that drawing was NOT an easy decision.There's a lot of stuff that goes on when you do that. And yeah sometimes you have to follow through to stop the threat. In my case I did not have to engage a bullet. He saw my weapon and ran. If I shot at that point, I'd been in the wrong.

Now can I expect you to truly understand that? I really don't. You might not have ever been in my shoes to know what that was like. But let me tell you this; most of us who wish to stay legal don't carry because we want to kill somebody.

To stay legal there's LOTS of rules you have to know. You have to know when you can engage, how you can engage. WHEN you can't engage. Frankly I do whatever I can to NOT engage. You have to know when you can carry and when you can't. You have to know HOW to carry without someone freaking out calling the cops and you get a brandishing charge against you.

Most states don't have automatic license so for an automatic weapon you'd need a federal license. I'm not totally familiar with Vegas or even Nevada (certain cities can have different laws than their states), I'd have to read what they have. Licenses for Automatic weaons, are not easy to get, Nor can you just go to a gun store and get one. One must pass a separate background check for it (the license). One must submit to searches by ATF. One must also register every automatic weapon with the US government. People with these types of licenses are held to a very high standard. You break the law and you lose that license.

There are laws in place for firearms. Lots of them, and some are state specific. For instance, when I lived in Massachusetts and wanted to carry in New Hampshire, I also needed that state's license to do so legally. In some states certain weapons are not available. You don't have access to certain clip sizes (in mass it was 9 +1 rounds)

As I've said before if you (general you) choose to break the law, and willfully do so, then you are outside of the confines of that law. People who drink 3 glasses of wine then go for a drive 30 minutes later are breaking the law.

This guy, whoever he is, broke the law and very willfully did so. His intent to do harm made him a criminal.

 

[redwood66]

I understand what you say Arcadian. You follow the law. It's all about rights, who's rights matter more? For me, the right to protect yourself is fair enough. But, these rapid rifles and guns, nope. If he had to stop and reload after 10 shots maybe there wouldn't be as many dead. . What is a militia?

a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

• a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities, typically in opposition to a regular army.
• all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.

We have swung so far right that being part of militia means we can carry murderous weapons that can and do reach the masses. Lucky us.

I do understand what you are saying and your fear. I don't know what Arcadian carries but it might be a semi-automatic pistol. Her pistol saved her from what might have been a violent or deadly encounter. I don't want to tell her that she cannot protect herself in the best way possible within the law. She is much more eloquent at explaining her position.

 

[Tekate]

Thanks Red, I understand her position. What just get's me is the amount of fire power we allow citizens to have.

I do understand what you are saying and your fear. I don't know what Arcadian carries but it might be a semi-automatic pistol. Her pistol saved her from what might have been a violent or deadly encounter. I don't want to tell her that she cannot protect herself in the best way possible within the law. She is much more eloquent at explaining her position.