Is this a good radiant? - Radiant Cut Help- PLLEEAASSEEE
- Thread starter sruizaroo
- Start date
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,463
Now that you are considering cushions I can tell you that none of those choices are top performers in terms of light performance for the type of cushion they are (the 5th one is by far better than the others). All of those 4 main cushions and the radiant show widespread leakage and none gather light strongly from overhead(ASET red) along most of the edges.
I would suggest first watch at least this video and decide which type of cushion cut you like the most, also we need to know if it has to be very rectangular or if you would consider only slight rectangular(LW=1 - 1.1) or perfect square(LW=1) as well. This guide below will help you understand the different appearances of cushion cuts and help you nail down your preferences.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
ChunkyCushionLover's Guide To Buying Cushion Cut Diamonds (2.0)
Step 1 (Choose The Type of Cut)
Decide the look of cushion you like best. (Watching the videos should help you the most with this.)
A great video illustrating the best in Cushion Brilliant Optics and a comparison between several varieties http://www.vimeo.com/9188543
i) Cushion Brilliant
a) 4 main like this one http://www.vimeo.com/2120607 (4 main is on the left)
b) 8 main thin (modern style) http://www.vimeo.com/9188543http://www.vimeo.com/2120607 (1st stone on the left)
c) 8 main thick (vintage style) http://www.vimeo.com/9188543 (3rd stone from the left)
d) BGD modern 8 main cushion (the mains intersect at the corners) https://www.pricescope.com/forum/topic12849.html
ii) Square Cushion Hearts and Arrows http://video.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/analysis/CXF7266-2.mov http://video.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/analysis/CXF7266.mov also second stone from the left in http://www.vimeo.com/9188543.
iii) Cushette http://www.vimeo.com/3164922
iv) Cushion Modified Brilliant (often referred to negatively as the "crushed ice" variety as many in this category have only small flashes and were cut to save weght not to optimize light return),
a) 4 Pavillion main facets (several varieties)
b) 8 mains (several varieties) http://www.vimeo.com/3164922 both the left and the right stones have the same facet structure. Most in this cutting style would look similar to the one on the left.
A helpful thread to see the plots and pictures of different types of cushions can be seen here https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-cushion-by-any-other-name.36001/ (keep in mind pictures aren't as useful as videos and can only be used reliably to understand facet structure not light performance or what flashes of light you will see)
If you want to learn about cushions cut for light performance a great video by Jon at GOG can be watched here http://www.vimeo.com/7579666 and bonus footage here http://www.vimeo.com/7611843.
Step 2 (Choose the 4Cs)
1) Post your budget, Color, Clarity, Carat Weight, LW(length to width) Ratio (do you like perfectly Square or Rectangular?) and cut preference. We will help find stones in your price range or tell you if your budget is realistic for the specs you have chosen or if you will have to make some tradeoffs. If you would rather go directly to the vendor at this point I suggest you speak to:
i) Jon at Goodoldgold.com (The most selective and expert vendor for the best in light performance in fancy shapes, especially in his signature lines like the Square Cushion Hearts and Arrows, August Vintage Cushion (8 main thick vintage) and 4 main cushion brilliants).
ii) Mart at Engagementringsdirect.com (Excellent prices, specializes in 8 main vintage stones and can find 8 main thin modern ones as well)
iii) Bob at Whiteflash.com (Has been known to have a source for nice 4 main cushion brilliants)
iv) Brian at Briangavindiamonds.com (Designed the BGD 8 main cushion brilliant above but mostly specializes in hearts and arrows rounds)
This list is limited to what I beleive are vendors who specialize in cushion cuts designed for light performance, there may be others but they usually they don't provide the tools (ASET images, sarin report data etc.) to allow us to make a proper comparison between what they sell and the very best in cushions cut for light performance. Some vendors like GOG (August Vintage) and BGD (Modern 8 main) have even developed their own cushion signature cut diamonds lines not available for sale by any other vendor. All of these vendors will be able to provide ASET images and pictures of stones to help you decide prior to purchase.
Once you know what kind of cut you are looking for we can be most helpful if you post your preferences in this thread.
Example:
Budget: $6500
Color: I and above
Clarity: SI1 and above (Anything Eyeclean from 15 inches away looking faceup)
Carat Weight: 1.3Ct+
Lw Ratio = 1 - 1.05 (I want square) or 1.1 - 1.3 (I want rectangular)
Cushion Brilliant (Modern) either 4 main or 8 mai
Step 3 (View and Post ASET Image and Photographs and/or see in person)
Ask the vendor for a Video and/or ASET image (http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_ASET_scope.asp) of your possible choices and we can help you narrow down which of your selections we prefer and why.
Step 4 (View a side by side comparison at a vendor or appraisor for final selection)
If you are still not sure I would send your two or three favourite stones to a PS listed appraisor https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx close to you, where you can view your final choices in person prior to purchase you will just have to pay shipping. Many PS vendors will send stones to a trusted appraisor without you having to pay first and the appraisor will only release the stone to you only upon payment to and consent of the vendor. For such an expensive purchase approximately $100 in shipping and insurance (both ways) and $100 in appraisor time seems well worth it to make the most informed choice possible.
Happy Hunting,
CCL
CharmyPoo
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2004
- Messages
- 7,007
How about this? http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7143/
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,463
Given an 8K budget I'd suggest the following as choices including the one above by Charmypoo.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6372/ (Square Cushion Hearts and Arrows)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6037/ (August Vintage 8 Main Vintage Cushion Brilliant)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3852/ (A well cut square radiant a little more than you wanted to spend but worthwhile for comparison)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6261/ (Well Cut 4 Main Cushion Brilliant)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6259/ (Another well cut 4 Main Cushion Brilliant)
This really comes down to how much you want to spend, the size and color and really which type of cut you like the most.
Jon at GOG has been known to do video lineups to help you decide. Take a look at the specs and price and then Jon could do a lineup of your final 3 or 4 choices if you are serious about buying from him.
--------------
From Whiteflash
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut-loose-diamond-2160880.htm (Great Looking 4 main Cushion Brilliant) and look it breaks the rule of table greater than depth
If interested be sure to ask Bob about where the very thick parts of the girdle are if they are only on the corners it is fine.
Charmypoo, that is a beautiful stone but I dunno about the I color. I had wanted to stay in the D-G range, though I do read that some people prefer the lower, warmer colors for cushions. I guess I have to wait til I see them in person.
CCL, here is the info you requested, and thanks for all the videos and info!
Budget: $7000 (for center stone alone)
Color: G and above (but like I said earlier, have to see the lower colors in person. and i would appreciate feedback from people re. cushions and the lower colors. are they preferable?)
Clarity: SI1 and above (Anything Eyeclean from 15 inches away looking faceup)
Carat Weight: 1 to 1.5
Lw Ratio = 1.1 - 1.3 (I want rectangular)
8 main cushion, not modern though (i like the AVCs and the 8 main vintage)
CCL, here is the info you requested, and thanks for all the videos and info!
Budget: $7000 (for center stone alone)
Color: G and above (but like I said earlier, have to see the lower colors in person. and i would appreciate feedback from people re. cushions and the lower colors. are they preferable?)
Clarity: SI1 and above (Anything Eyeclean from 15 inches away looking faceup)
Carat Weight: 1 to 1.5
Lw Ratio = 1.1 - 1.3 (I want rectangular)
8 main cushion, not modern though (i like the AVCs and the 8 main vintage)
CharmyPoo
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2004
- Messages
- 7,007
Date: 4/29/2010 8:12:34 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover
Given an 8K budget I''d suggest the following as choices including the one above by Charmypoo.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6372/ (Square Cushion Hearts and Arrows)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6037/ (August Vintage 8 Main Vintage Cushion Brilliant)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3852/ (A well cut square radiant a little more than you wanted to spend but worthwhile for comparison)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6261/ (Well Cut 4 Main Cushion Brilliant)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6259/ (Another well cut 4 Main Cushion Brilliant)
This really comes down to how much you want to spend, the size and color and really which type of cut you like the most.
Jon at GOG has been known to do video lineups to help you decide. Take a look at the specs and price and then Jon could do a lineup of your final 3 or 4 choices if you are serious about buying from him.
--------------
From Whiteflash
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut-loose-diamond-2160880.htm (Great Looking 4 main Cushion Brilliant) and look it breaks the rule of table greater than depth.
If interested be sure to ask Bob about where the very thick parts of the girdle are if they are only on the corners it is fine.
I was looking at that E SI1 from GOG online. I dunno if it''s too square for my taste. It''s bordering on rectangular, though. . . . I guess I''d have to see it in person.
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,463
Well you lowered your budget just slightly and you want quite rectangular and an 8 main vintage so the only one that fits is this one.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6037/
But I''d still do the lineup with these as well:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6259/ (LW=1.06 4 main and a little more costly)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6261/ (LW=1.11 4 main and a little more costly)
If you aren''t planning a trip out to GOG I''d suggest getting Jon to do the video with the three both in and OUTSIDE THE DIAMOND DOCK, by the window would be nice for viewing performance in natural lighting and viewing faceup color differences.
That would be a really great lineup if you are serious about a top performing cushion cut.
Of course seeing them in person is the ultimate test but the video would help a lot as well.
Good-luck,
CCL
Another thing is, I can''t really envision how I would set the cushion. I know there are thousands and thousands of rings out there and lots of possibilites. I just dont know what I would want for me. Originally when I wanted a radiant, it was b/c I tried on the Tiffany Lucida with trillions and I liked it very much. I was trying to emulate it with a radiant. I do prefer the bigger flashes on a radiant. (CCL, the video you sent me of the 4 radiants, I preferred I believe it was the 1st and 4th radiant, with medium to larger-ish flashes.)
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,463
Anyway good luck look forward to seeing pictures of the final product. You could even take a look at some radiants while you are there, but I'm sure you will choose the cushion, you seem really really selective on what you want, now you can let your eyes decideDate: 4/29/2010 8:34:04 PM
Author: sruizaroo
Oh, also, I will be going to GOG. I live in Queens and GOG is on LI so it's just a hop, skip and a jump away
As an alternative you might also ask Mark at ERD in Manhatten to pull in a rectangular vintage 8 main, they won't have the same light performance as a GOG AVC but you might be able to get a little more rectangular and still reasonably good light performance, Jon at GOG might be able to do this as well.
Date: 4/29/2010 8:39:08 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover
Anyway good luck look forward to see pictures of the final product. You could even take a look at some radiants while you are there, but I''m sure you will choose the cushion, you seem really really selective on what you want, now you can let your eyes decideDate: 4/29/2010 8:34:04 PM
Author: sruizaroo
Oh, also, I will be going to GOG. I live in Queens and GOG is on LI so it''s just a hop, skip and a jump away.
As an alternative you might also ask Mark at ERD in Manhatten to pull in a rectangular vintage 8 main, they won''t have the same light performance as a GOG AVC but you might be able to get a little more rectangular and still reasonable good light performance.
I did contact ERD for a rectangular vintage 8 main as well, just a little while ago.
I will look at some radiants (and other shapes, why not?!) while at GOG. Jonathan has been very gracious and has offered to show me a bunch of different stones so I can [finally! my poor boyfriend!] make my decision.
CharmyPoo
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2004
- Messages
- 7,007
Dreamer_D
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2007
- Messages
- 28,751
Sruizaroo All I can say is that you are a LUCKY ducky to be able to go to GOG and other PS vendors in person to see the differetn cuts. Personally, I think that the AVC cushions are a killer choice for you. They have a really romantic facet pattern, they are rectangular (or can be), and their optics are simply amazing.
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,463
http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=306 (With Shields)
http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=309 (With cushions)
http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=284 (With Trapezoids)
Also classic settings with pears East west and with Baguettes or narrow step cut shields as you posted above noone does it quite like Leon.
CharmyPoo
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2004
- Messages
- 7,007
iota15
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Messages
- 1,278
You know. I know you''re relying on CCL for this point. But in this thread alone, CCL has gone from quite a few tight numbers and various rule-sounding requirements, like "table less than depths", to "trust your eyes". In his last few posts, despite what he seemed to go against earlier, he''s telling you to TRUST YOUR EYES.Date: 4/28/2010 11:50:15 AM
Author: sruizaroo
Yup, I''m seeing them in person. The one I liked the most so far had the following stats:
F, VS1 1.04 carat
pol vg
symm g
slightly thick to thick girdle
6.81 x 5.55 x 3.13
table 72%
depth : 56.4
ratio 1.22
And as you said previously, stones with table less than depth aresooooo I''m still looking. James Allen hasn''t sent me ASET pics yet and the two other appointments I had this week to see radiants have been rescheduled. Hopefully GOG will pan out for me.
If you like this stone, then it most definitely is not
If it looks good to you, give us an Aset... and maybe it''s a great light performer too.
By the way, I''m back on the rectangular Radiant bandwagon - something about those sharp lines and lack of, I don''t know, "fatness" speaks to me. There''s no reason not to consider other shapes, and I can''t wait to hear what you find at GOG and all these other places.
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,463
Iota,Date: 4/29/2010 10:55:56 PM
Author: iota15
You know. I know you're relying on CCL for this point. But in this thread alone, CCL has gone from quite a few tight numbers and various rule-sounding requirements, like 'table less than depths', to 'trust your eyes'. In his last few posts, despite what he seemed to go against earlier, he's telling you to TRUST YOUR EYES.Date: 4/28/2010 11:50:15 AM
Author: sruizaroo
Yup, I'm seeing them in person. The one I liked the most so far had the following stats:
F, VS1 1.04 carat
pol vg
symm g
slightly thick to thick girdle
6.81 x 5.55 x 3.13
table 72%
depth : 56.4
ratio 1.22
And as you said previously, stones with table less than depth aresooooo I'm still looking. James Allen hasn't sent me ASET pics yet and the two other appointments I had this week to see radiants have been rescheduled. Hopefully GOG will pan out for me.
If you like this stone, then it most definitely is notAny number parameters should be taken as rejection suggestions. They help people, who cannot see their diamonds in person, sort through the massive lists of virtual stones based on certain proportions and rules, which may lead you to better looking diamonds. These rules really don't apply to you because you can see these diamonds in person.
If it looks good to you, give us an Aset... and maybe it's a great light performer too.
By the way, I'm back on the rectangular Radiant bandwagon - something about those sharp lines and lack of, I don't know, 'fatness' speaks to me. There's no reason not to consider other shapes, and I can't wait to hear what you find at GOG and all these other places.
I have not been able to this message across so I'll try one last time.
1) In general fancy shapes should never be selected by the numbers, novice or expert there are way too many exceptions and an ASET is a much better indicator than proportions. If we had a full sarin and Diamcalc simulated video than it would be useful, but just from LW ratio, Table% and Depth % selection is impossible. Crown Height, Pavillion Angles(not just the average all 4 or
, LGF %, upper halves etc all play an important part and these are not available from a grading report. 2) There are some things that are a little tougher to grasp about rejection by the numbers . A 56.4% depth radiant with 72% table with a 1.22 ratio while it may be beautiful to some but WILL NEVER have a good ASET, it is not magic or chaos in selecting radiants, there isn't some "voodoo" for radiant cuts that Stan Grossbard or any famous cutter can do to give this radiant better more intense light return. It will invariably have a flat crown and shallow pavillion no matter what the other facets are doing. Ignore the table and change the depth to 70%+ and I wouldn't be so certain.
3) Many people don't value light performance as highly as I do when considering beauty. If you showed them 10 stones they would pick the most beautiful with their eyes and call it a day. This kind of shopper doesn't care as much about fire or large flash or if they see large poorly lit areas in their diamond. Usually for them as long as it has a lot of small flashes and good scintillation and size they will be happy. I've heard comments from vendors trying to sell stones in this manner stating "it is not a competition" well I disagree I want all posters to see the best cut for light performance in a given shape outline and make an informed decision whether this is the best choice for them.
I can't decide what is beautiful for anyone that is their choice and based on a large number of criteria (shape outline, LW ratio, virtual facet pattern, crown height profile, fire, dispersion, scintillation, brilliance, faceup size etc etc.) I can say though the majority on Pricescope who make threads like this one care about light return or care about what experienced posters have to say about this. The step where they request an ASET they are are saying "I care about the light performance of my selection" and want to know how it compares to its peers. Once I have pointed out stones that will have what I regard to be excellent light performance for its shape outline that is as far as I can go. The OP will be going to a vendor who cares about light performance above most other factors and will also be aware of stones I reccomend seeing. After this its up to the OP and I have no doubt sruizaroo is going to make a very well informed decision!
It is not our job here to make the final selection, the cheapest option is usually the easiest choice for a novice diamond shopper, but if I point out the most likely best in cut quality they may realize that paying the premium is worth it, their eyes will determine this not mine. If not the journey wasn't a waste and they made a well informed decision.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2005
- Messages
- 42,064
Then you will be in the fortunate position of having the skill of a true expert at your disposal! I know you will find meeting Jon to be a fun and educational experience.Date: 4/29/2010 8:34:04 PM
Author: sruizaroo
Oh, also, I will be going to GOG. I live in Queens and GOG is on LI so it''s just a hop, skip and a jump away
sooo, jonathan at GOG has made me a cushion lover for life! i got my diamond! WOOHOO! my experience at GOG was nothing short of wonderful. jonathan is SO knowledgable, and soooo patient. he wasn''t pushy at all. he made me and my mother (went with my mommy! i think she has a good eye for these things.) feel so comfortable and welcome. we were there for THREE HOURS and he never rushed us at all. in fact, i think we coulda been there for 5 and he never woulda blinked an eye! he took his time to show us the difference between all sorts of cushions (cushette, square hearts and arrows, AVC''s, etc.). he even showed us radiants and was willing to show us any other shape or cut we cared to see. he showed them to us in natural lighting and in spot lighting as well, educating us along the way. we got to see ASET images and microscope images (online). he obviously knows his stuff and looooves what he does, so he is more than happy to help and share his expertise.
the store itself is beautiful and big, and does good business. (there were plenty of customers! it''s not like the store was empty and he could devote so much time to us. he chose to. he said to us when he''s making a big purchase he likes to have all the information and doesn''t want to feel rushed, etc. so he extends the same courtesy to his customers.) the store is in between a pizza place and a Panera in a shopping center on LI. (pizza next door is gooood! go after you buy your diamond!)
anyways, so i ended up choosing a 1.5 carat AVC, E color, SI2 (eye clean!). it''s more square than rectangular. (i actually preferred the squarer stones on my hand to the rectangular ones. who knew?!) it is GORGEOUS and so sparkly. i love the broad flashes of light and the pastel colors that bounce off in the light. i went over budget, but hey, it was worth it to get a 1.5 carat stone. i cannot WAAAIIITTTT to get that baby on my finger!
i''m going to work with them on a setting. i am thinking of either setting it with tapered step-cut bullets on the side, or tapered baguettes, in platinum. i will keep you posted on that.
in summary, i would say if you are in the market for a diamond (esp. a cushion! but any shape, really), please do not hesitate to contact jonathan at GOG. he is beyond amazing! and for those of you that care, he is a christian, godfearing man, which just made the whole experience that much better.
also, want to give a shout out to bob hoskins at whiteflash. i spoke with him on the phone and via email a few times before i purchased my diamond and he was always gracious, helpful, and courteous. he even gave me advice on diamonds i was looking at elsewhere. (who does that?!) and i believe it was honest advice, too. (he didn''t shoot all of them down!) he really knows his stuff! if he were in NY and not TX, i woulda visited him in a heartbeat. (really preferred to see the diamond in person first before buying.)
the store itself is beautiful and big, and does good business. (there were plenty of customers! it''s not like the store was empty and he could devote so much time to us. he chose to. he said to us when he''s making a big purchase he likes to have all the information and doesn''t want to feel rushed, etc. so he extends the same courtesy to his customers.) the store is in between a pizza place and a Panera in a shopping center on LI. (pizza next door is gooood! go after you buy your diamond!)
anyways, so i ended up choosing a 1.5 carat AVC, E color, SI2 (eye clean!). it''s more square than rectangular. (i actually preferred the squarer stones on my hand to the rectangular ones. who knew?!) it is GORGEOUS and so sparkly. i love the broad flashes of light and the pastel colors that bounce off in the light. i went over budget, but hey, it was worth it to get a 1.5 carat stone. i cannot WAAAIIITTTT to get that baby on my finger!
i''m going to work with them on a setting. i am thinking of either setting it with tapered step-cut bullets on the side, or tapered baguettes, in platinum. i will keep you posted on that.
in summary, i would say if you are in the market for a diamond (esp. a cushion! but any shape, really), please do not hesitate to contact jonathan at GOG. he is beyond amazing! and for those of you that care, he is a christian, godfearing man, which just made the whole experience that much better.
also, want to give a shout out to bob hoskins at whiteflash. i spoke with him on the phone and via email a few times before i purchased my diamond and he was always gracious, helpful, and courteous. he even gave me advice on diamonds i was looking at elsewhere. (who does that?!) and i believe it was honest advice, too. (he didn''t shoot all of them down!) he really knows his stuff! if he were in NY and not TX, i woulda visited him in a heartbeat. (really preferred to see the diamond in person first before buying.)
slg47
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2010
- Messages
- 9,667
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
- Messages
- 2,463
Welcome to The Dark Side (Cushion) I had a feeling you were going to go this way
Great choice in specs, E SI2 is a great value range, you get really rare and icy white, and the price is lowered by an SI2 grading but its likely eye clean so no need to pay for higher clarity gradings you can''t see.
Good luck I would like to see it on your hand.
Regards,
CCL
CharmyPoo
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2004
- Messages
- 7,007
Dreamer_D
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2007
- Messages
- 28,751
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2005
- Messages
- 42,064
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings - 04/14
300x240.png)