Insured by "Perfect Circle" (JM), but...

[denverappraiser]

I have a bit of a struggle with that like kind thing, which is kinda why I am glad Chubb is my carrier, and hopefully continues to always keep me and my cash out policy despite having a claim from a few years ago (Is it sad that I STILL look in pawn shops for my old stone???). My current stone is a one of a kind in a way that most stones are not. This brand doesn't source and cut rough of this clarity grade anymore and this particular stone is from the original cutting house that owned the brand, not the one that currently owns it. So unless we found a lucky dog in the pipeline of supply that was a trade-in...it would have to be recut custom. It's valuation reflects that.

msop, JM requires an appraisal for rings over a certain cost, and someone has suggested it is $5000. I have my coverage with Chubb, but when my daughter got engaged, they used JM and that is what they were told.

The mistake you made was using an inflated appraisal to insure. I always use my sales receipts with Chubb because all I care to do is protect the investment I have made in the diamond. I would never, ever make a claim for setting damage because making claims hurts you in premiums later. So I will insure my pieces for what I paid, and if prices go up 20% over a few years, I'll evenutally increase the coverage.

In light of all the crap I dealt with in the past with settings, I actually tried to do that, and Chubb would not accept an appraisal on a loose stone for insurance. I asked if I got the appraisals redone and submitted new receipts if that could be corrected and they told me (after a wait of almost a week while it was sent up the chain for an answer) that it was not an option because "the stone had to be set for it to be insured at all, because it is intended to be set and eventually worn as a jewelry piece." If it stayed loose and was never set, that would be different insurance apparently altogether. I shrugged and said ok whatever. It's insured in full through them and still ends up in the safe 90% of the time anyway.

Chubb usually does an annual increase for inflation anyway.

Chubb is a good outfit. The problem with them is twofold. First, most people can’t get a policy. They don’t write stand-alone jewelry policies anymore and they won’t write policies on homes and cars below a financial threshold that’s over where a lot of people need to be. The other zinger is the price. Their cash out policies are often double or even triple the price of the more common replacement type policies. That said, I do like them and I agree with you that for the right client who lives in the right place, they’re the way to go.

The best way to avoid trouble on replacements is to be clear about your specs in the appraisal. I hate to sound self-serving in the forum but that’s one of the big reasons to get a professional appraisal done on new purchases even though the seller supplied a ‘free’ report that the insurer would happily take. Insurers are easy to please, it’s the client who should be picky. If a detail like the branding is important to you it needs to be in the report, preferably in a way that a knockoff couldn’t meet the specs (like a photomicrograph of the hallmark). If it’s not in the paperwork that you supply when you bind the policy, it’s not one of the specs. It does get tricky when the specs are impossible to meet, such as when the brand is out of business, and there’s no compromise with the insured on an alternative manufacturer or when the subject is an antique that would not be ‘like kind’ with a new replacement. JM can and will cash out in these situations. They also have an 'agreed value' option with a cash payment by the way. I think it costs about 50% more than their 'regular' policy.

 

[msop04]

Chubb is a good outfit. The problem with them is twofold. First, most people can’t get a policy. They don’t write stand-alone jewelry policies anymore and they won’t write policies on homes and cars below a financial threshold that’s over where a lot of people need to be. The other zinger is the price. Their cash out policies are often double or even triple the price of the more common replacement type policies. That said, I do like them and I agree with you that for the right client who lives in the right place, they’re the way to go.

The best way to avoid trouble on replacements is to be clear about your specs in the appraisal. I hate to sound self-serving in the forum but that’s one of the big reasons to get a professional appraisal done on new purchases even though the seller supplied a ‘free’ report that the insurer would happily take. Insurers are easy to please, it’s the client who should be picky. If a detail like the branding is important to you it needs to be in the report, preferably in a way that a knockoff couldn’t meet the specs (like a photomicrograph of the hallmark). If it’s not in the paperwork that you supply when you bind the policy, it’s not one of the specs. It does get tricky when the specs are impossible to meet, such as when the brand is out of business, and there’s no compromise with the insured on an alternative manufacturer or when the subject is an antique that would not be ‘like kind’ with a new replacement. JM can and will cash out in these situations. They also have an 'agreed value' option with a cash payment by the way.

Thanks denverappraiser. Good to know there is always an option for a cash payment, although I'm pretty sure it would be significantly less than the insured value... but still an option.

After thinking about this some more, I am leaning toward just going to an appraiser other than DD (most likely where my old SA is working). He was very good and I feel confident that he would make sure I got a fair appraisal to submit. (Not that DD isn't fair, but I've already used them and felt they grossly inflated the first appraisal, so...)

Being in the medical field, I can totally understand and appreciate having proper and precise documentation, so I will make sure this carries on to my ering insurance description -- makes sense to me!

 

[ame]

I have a bit of a struggle with that like kind thing, which is kinda why I am glad Chubb is my carrier, and hopefully continues to always keep me and my cash out policy despite having a claim from a few years ago (Is it sad that I STILL look in pawn shops for my old stone???). My current stone is a one of a kind in a way that most stones are not. This brand doesn't source and cut rough of this clarity grade anymore and this particular stone is from the original cutting house that owned the brand, not the one that currently owns it. So unless we found a lucky dog in the pipeline of supply that was a trade-in...it would have to be recut custom. It's valuation reflects that.

In light of all the crap I dealt with in the past with settings, I actually tried to do that, and Chubb would not accept an appraisal on a loose stone for insurance. I asked if I got the appraisals redone and submitted new receipts if that could be corrected and they told me (after a wait of almost a week while it was sent up the chain for an answer) that it was not an option because "the stone had to be set for it to be insured at all, because it is intended to be set and eventually worn as a jewelry piece." If it stayed loose and was never set, that would be different insurance apparently altogether. I shrugged and said ok whatever. It's insured in full through them and still ends up in the safe 90% of the time anyway.

Chubb usually does an annual increase for inflation anyway.

No, ame, it's not sad that you still look -- I think I would always be looking for it, had it been mine... That's great that you have Chubb -- we can't use it because we don't plan on insuring larger items (like our home) with them as well. I was talking with DH about all this last night and he asked what would happen if we were like 85 years old and my ring was lost or stolen... Could we just get the money and choose not to replace the ring?? I told him no, but that Chubb would write a check... nice policy to have for sure!

My stone is just the run of the mill MRB, but I understand your beef with the whole "like kind" thing... hopefully, you'll never have to worry about this -- I wouldn't wish that heartache on anyone... Since we had made the decision to shop around for coverage with a premium that more fits what we'd want, I just started thinking about the "what ifs" of it all. I don't know that I would want to try to have my custom setting remade, because I may have different tastes (not to mention I don't know if it could be done exactly the same as before, and that would drive me insane).

I've had my ering insured with JM since July of 2012, and it has already increased over $3K -- UGH! ...guess that's just part of it.

Literally 4 months after I bought this stone, diamonds SHOT UP (we bought it end of 2009). I just felt like "omg I am SO GLAD I got this stone when I did." The value on this particular one went up something ridiculous, I want to say like $3k right out of the gate, so that was almost 33% in a snap. I could not even believe how much "correction" the market went through in early-mid 2010. I remember getting my renewal that year and almost falling over dead from the increase.

I have dreams that I find that stone and can buy it back still from the pawn shop or whatever. Or that I see someone wearing it and recognize it instantly and tell them it was mine and that I am glad it's in a good home. It still burns me up though that it was taken from me.

I do wish Chubb still would write standalones. I mean I kinda get why they don't but it still sucks. They're great, in my experience.

I have a bit of a struggle with that like kind thing, which is kinda why I am glad Chubb is my carrier, and hopefully continues to always keep me and my cash out policy despite having a claim from a few years ago (Is it sad that I STILL look in pawn shops for my old stone???). My current stone is a one of a kind in a way that most stones are not. This brand doesn't source and cut rough of this clarity grade anymore and this particular stone is from the original cutting house that owned the brand, not the one that currently owns it. So unless we found a lucky dog in the pipeline of supply that was a trade-in...it would have to be recut custom. It's valuation reflects that.

msop, JM requires an appraisal for rings over a certain cost, and someone has suggested it is $5000. I have my coverage with Chubb, but when my daughter got engaged, they used JM and that is what they were told.

The mistake you made was using an inflated appraisal to insure. I always use my sales receipts with Chubb because all I care to do is protect the investment I have made in the diamond. I would never, ever make a claim for setting damage because making claims hurts you in premiums later. So I will insure my pieces for what I paid, and if prices go up 20% over a few years, I'll evenutally increase the coverage.

In light of all the crap I dealt with in the past with settings, I actually tried to do that, and Chubb would not accept an appraisal on a loose stone for insurance. I asked if I got the appraisals redone and submitted new receipts if that could be corrected and they told me (after a wait of almost a week while it was sent up the chain for an answer) that it was not an option because "the stone had to be set for it to be insured at all, because it is intended to be set and eventually worn as a jewelry piece." If it stayed loose and was never set, that would be different insurance apparently altogether. I shrugged and said ok whatever. It's insured in full through them and still ends up in the safe 90% of the time anyway.

Chubb usually does an annual increase for inflation anyway.

Chubb is a good outfit. The problem with them is twofold. First, most people can’t get a policy. They don’t write stand-alone jewelry policies anymore and they won’t write policies on homes and cars below a financial threshold that’s over where a lot of people need to be. The other zinger is the price. Their cash out policies are often double or even triple the price of the more common replacement type policies. That said, I do like them and I agree with you that for the right client who lives in the right place, they’re the way to go.

The best way to avoid trouble on replacements is to be clear about your specs in the appraisal. I hate to sound self-serving in the forum but that’s one of the big reasons to get a professional appraisal done on new purchases even though the seller supplied a ‘free’ report that the insurer would happily take. Insurers are easy to please, it’s the client who should be picky. If a detail like the branding is important to you it needs to be in the report, preferably in a way that a knockoff couldn’t meet the specs (like a photomicrograph of the hallmark). If it’s not in the paperwork that you supply when you bind the policy, it’s not one of the specs. It does get tricky when the specs are impossible to meet, such as when the brand is out of business, and there’s no compromise with the insured on an alternative manufacturer or when the subject is an antique that would not be ‘like kind’ with a new replacement. JM can and will cash out in these situations. They also have an 'agreed value' option with a cash payment by the way. I think it costs about 50% more than their 'regular' policy.

I have been very happy with Chubb and that I was able to get a jewelry only policy with them before that policy changed, I've had them since I got engaged, and I feel incredibly lucky that I wasn't "dropped" after my claim since they changed that policy in that time window and it took me a while to figure out the replacement. I am always nervous each year we'll be told I can't have their insurance anymore, in which case I will be seriously heartbroken.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I don't love the generalizations about Chubb since some are simply untrue. I have Chubb and did get standalone insurance before they stopped doing it. But I just compared premiums again last week to adding a rider onto my homeowners and Chubb was a little LESS!!!! So in NO way am I paying double or any higher percentage to get that coverage. There may be big cities that Chubb doesn't want to take the risk and charges higher. But that is not true in my location, which is not in a major city. My total premium is under $500 for $45,000 of coverage, so just a little over a dollar per thousand.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Oh, and sorry, I missed where you said where you live. We have DD in NC, too.

The premium is not bad for the amount of coverage. The whole problem is that your insurance appraisal is too high. I would take your sales receipt and diamond grading report with you to the jeweler you know, and tell him you cannot use the inflated appraisal from DD, and can he please do a new appraisal for you with the sales price, which is the true replacement value.

 

[bgray]

Oh, and sorry, I missed where you said where you live. We have DD in NC, too.

The premium is not bad for the amount of coverage. The whole problem is that your insurance appraisal is too high. I would take your sales receipt and diamond grading report with you to the jeweler you know, and tell him you cannot use the inflated appraisal from DD, and can he please do a new appraisal for you with the sales price, which is the true replacement value.

I agree: we have Chubb and it was very competitive with other insurance quotes but with a better replacement policy. The appraisal is the problem. As I stated previously, we use our purchase invoices. We provided an appraisal for specs on the whole ring but not for the coverage amount.

 

[tinatark]

We had a traditional coverage for my ring - a rider on my homeowner's policy (Selective Insurance) - when my hubby lost it earlier this year, we were first offered about half of the insured value - I was able to negotiate with my claims adjustor to 75% of the insured amount.

I was able to get "agreed value" coverage on my new ring - I have to get a new appraisal annually, for about $12 more a year.

Yes - I was a little frustrated that we could have been paying $12 more per year and gotten $8k more when it was lost, but very happy with my upgrade!