Insured by "Perfect Circle" (JM), but...

[msop04]

msop, JM requires an appraisal for rings over a certain cost, and someone has suggested it is $5000. I have my coverage with Chubb, but when my daughter got engaged, they used JM and that is what they were told.

The mistake you made was using an inflated appraisal to insure.

OH YEAH!! Big mistake on my part!!

I always use my sales receipts with Chubb because all I care to do is protect the investment I have made in the diamond. I would never, ever make a claim for setting damage because making claims hurts you in premiums later. So I will insure my pieces for what I paid, and if prices go up 20% over a few years, I'll evenutally increase the coverage.

Good advice about setting damage. Thanks!

The thing you always have to do is talk to an appraiser beforehand and explain that you need an appraisal for insurance and you already know the value, as it is what you paid. That is the TRUE replacement value!!!! You can easily track prices over time by searching PS vendors. You just need the appraiser to see your sales receipt or comps of where you'd replace the stone so that the value can be appropriate on the appraisal.

Yes, I totally should have realized this beforehand... I'll blame it on the excitement of a new engagement. LOL Again, I'm so glad I posted!! Yay for saving some money!

So really, you do not need to speak to JM. You need to find an appraiser who will cooperate with valuing your item at the price you can replace it for. Then you send the new appraisal to JM and tell them you have an updated appraisal and want your items to reflect the new value on your policy.

I will do this ASAP! Thanks again, diamondseeker! I really appreciate the guidance.

 

[SMC]

Re: Insured by

I have insurance with JM. They required an appraisal for my piece (they said they only take receipt as insured amount if the price was < $5000). I got an appraisal that matched my purchase price. I think you can ask the appraiser to specify any reasonable amount for the appraised value.

I also put my copay at like $500 (you can specify more) which decreased the amount of my premium as well.

Very helpful information, sortmon -- I will take this avenue, since JM will most likely deny my request (over $5K) anyway... Thanks! By copay, do you mean deductible?

Yes, deductible. I get my insurance and my healthcare information mixed up.

 

[msop04]

Is this common practice for insurance companies to base premiums off of appraisals?? I plan on calling them today and try to get this taken care of ASAP. Does anyone have any advice as to what I need to say or do?

"Hey JM, since you guys have screwed me for a little over 18 months, I'd like to get this fixed for good..." doesn't sound very professional... LOL

I was really just teasing, Dreamer. I would never ever say this to anyone, even if it was their fault.

Why is this JMs fault? They insure based on the information you provide. Your information includes an appraisal stating an inflated value. How is that their fault?

Go get a new appraisal and insist it reflect your purchase price. Take your receipt with you.

I don't think it's JM's fault. I never did. This is why I posted this thread, which I am glad I did...

I am aggrevated, but I should have had them clarify before handing over the appraisal. Now that I understand what the heck happened, I'm really just upset with myself... but I know better now, and that's a good thing. Can't dwell on the past -- what's done (and paid) is done.

 

[denverappraiser]

#1 Talk to your appraiser about their value conclusion. If you believe it to be more than what it will actually cost to replace the piece, talk to them about how they got to their value and ask them to reconsider it if it's too high. I can't guarantee that they'll agree with you but they should be prepared to defend their value.

#2 JF offers various discounts for higher deductibles as well as for alarms, vaults and the like and for having your stone Gemprintted (details on how to do this are at www.gemprint.com). With your numbers the payback on a Gemprint would be on the first premium.

#3 Rates vary from location to location depending on how they evaluate your risks. People in LA pay quite a bit more for the same coverage than people in, say, Fargo. Then again, they get to live in southern California.

 

[msop04]

Re: Insured by

I have insurance with JM. They required an appraisal for my piece (they said they only take receipt as insured amount if the price was < $5000). I got an appraisal that matched my purchase price. I think you can ask the appraiser to specify any reasonable amount for the appraised value.

I also put my copay at like $500 (you can specify more) which decreased the amount of my premium as well.

Very helpful information, sortmon -- I will take this avenue, since JM will most likely deny my request (over $5K) anyway... Thanks! By copay, do you mean deductible?

Yes, deductible. I get my insurance and my healthcare information mixed up.

Gotcha!

 

[msop04]

#1 Talk to your appraiser about their value conclusion. If you believe it to be more than what it will actually cost to replace the piece, talk to them about how they got to their value and ask them to reconsider it if it's too high. I can't guarantee that they'll agree with you but they should be prepared to defend their value.

#2 JF offers various discounts for higher deductibles as well as for alarms, vaults and the like and for having your stone Gemprintted (details on how to do this are at www.gemprint.com). With your numbers the payback on a Gemprint would be on the first premium.

#3 Rates vary from location to location depending on how they evaluate your risks. People in LA pay quite a bit more for the same coverage than people in, say, Fargo. Then again, they get to live in southern California.

Thanks, denverappraiser... I'm going to do this ASAP. I believe that the appraisal is very much inflated (like right at 33% more than what we paid). I don't know how they could defend this, but if they do... I will get an appraisal elsewhere.

What is JF?? As far as location, I live in the suburbs near Birmingham, AL...

Thanks for the advice!

 

[OMG_AMG]

I am also looking into purchasing insurance for my ring before going on a trip and proposing to my gf at the end of this month.

Apparently the price quote is based on the zip code of the wearer, and let me tell you, the quote for the Los Angeles area is really really high!

According to JM, to insure a ring around $22K w/ no deductible costs an annual premium of $550 in LA. =(

 

[msop04]

I am also looking into purchasing insurance for my ring before going on a trip and proposing to my gf at the end of this month.

Apparently the price quote is based on the zip code of the wearer, and let me tell you, the quote for the Los Angeles area is really really high!

According to JM, to insure a ring around $22K w/ no deductible costs an annual premium of $550 in LA. =(

Wow. Can you choose a high deductible and lower your premium?? That sucks.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Your only other ring insurance options besides JM is a rider on your homeowners since Chubb won't write standalone jewelry policies anymore, and they wouldn't be cheaper anyway. You can see how much an jewelry only policy on your homeowners would be comparatively and see how the claim works by comparison, but the rate is contingent on where you live AND the appraisal value, not just the appraisal value. I don't think it's worth the risk to cut it if you can't easily afford to replace your ring without full coverage.

Thanks ame, and I agree with this. Why can men be so cheap?? If it was for his big ski boat he might feel differently.

Because we are smarter than women...

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

Weird, I just insured my 4.00 cushion with JM and all I did was provide a receipt, they did not ask for an appraisal. *shrug* I am currently in the process of setting it, so this might be the case with it?

FYI: I have a $844 premium for 43k of coverage, for Orange County, it will jump to $1100 if we moved to LA county. D:

 

[msop04]

Your only other ring insurance options besides JM is a rider on your homeowners since Chubb won't write standalone jewelry policies anymore, and they wouldn't be cheaper anyway. You can see how much an jewelry only policy on your homeowners would be comparatively and see how the claim works by comparison, but the rate is contingent on where you live AND the appraisal value, not just the appraisal value. I don't think it's worth the risk to cut it if you can't easily afford to replace your ring without full coverage.

Thanks ame, and I agree with this. Why can men be so cheap?? If it was for his big ski boat he might feel differently.

Because we are smarter than women...

We do let you think so...

 

[msop04]

Weird, I just insured my 4.00 cushion with JM and all I did was provide a receipt, they did not ask for an appraisal. *shrug* I am currently in the process of setting it, so this might be the case with it?

FYI: I have a $844 premium for 43k of coverage, for Orange County, it will jump to $1100 if we moved to LA county. D:

Resonance, our overly inflated appraisal is for $42K and the annual premium is $588... and we live about 20 miles outside of Birmingham, AL... I can't wait to get this changed! I think I will submit our receipt, and if they won't take it, I will get see if DD will adjust my appraisal to closer to what we actually paid (which is what it would cost to replace now, so shouldn't be a problem)... if this falls through, I'll have an independent appraiser look into it.

Thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences and/or offered advice! I really do appreciate it!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Ask Kenny about jewelry insurance...

 

[OMG_AMG]

I am also looking into purchasing insurance for my ring before going on a trip and proposing to my gf at the end of this month.

Apparently the price quote is based on the zip code of the wearer, and let me tell you, the quote for the Los Angeles area is really really high!

According to JM, to insure a ring around $22K w/ no deductible costs an annual premium of $550 in LA. =(

Wow. Can you choose a high deductible and lower your premium?? That sucks.

Weird, I just insured my 4.00 cushion with JM and all I did was provide a receipt, they did not ask for an appraisal. *shrug* I am currently in the process of setting it, so this might be the case with it?

FYI: I have a $844 premium for 43k of coverage, for Orange County, it will jump to $1100 if we moved to LA county. D:

I guess people living in LA lose their jewelry quite frequently

 

[msop04]

Ask Kenny about jewelry insurance...

Maybe he'll comment...

 

[msop04]

I guess people living in LA lose their jewelry quite frequently

...and backwoods, AL as well! LOL

 

[madelise]

Wait… you guys think that her premium is too much? I'm paying almost $700/yr, including a $2500 deductible. It was like a $50 difference extra from getting the plan with a $5000 deductible. I felt like it was a lot, but I figured if I were to lose my e-ring at anytime, it would be within the first year. I opted to divide the payments into multiple payments a year so it doesn't hurt so much. Maybe I should reevaluate? Or?

What other options are there? Unlike OP, I did not over inflate the insured amount. I insured it for the appraised amount from Patrick Davis + the exact dollar amount I paid for the setting. I got the stone independently appraised (it was at my purchase price + a *very* small amount to give room for an estimated 5 years' worth of inflation) and just sent in the receipt for the setting since their site says you can use just a receipt if it's under a certain dollar amount.



Unfortunately, I do not have USAA. FI and I are both not military, nor do we have parents who are military. For some reason, this keeps getting recommended to me regardless

 

[Dancing Fire]

Wait… you guys think that her premium is too much? I'm paying almost $700/yr, including a $2500 deductible. It was like a $50 difference extra from getting the plan with a $5000 deductible. I felt like it was a lot, but I figured if I were to lose my e-ring at anytime, it would be within the first year. I opted to divide the payments into multiple payments a year so it doesn't hurt so much. Maybe I should reevaluate? Or?

What other options are there? Unlike OP, I did not over inflate the insured amount. I insured it for the appraised amount from Patrick Davis + the exact dollar amount I paid for the setting. I got the stone independently appraised (it was at my purchase price + a *very* small amount to give room for an estimated 5 years' worth of inflation) and just sent in the receipt for the setting since their site says you can use just a receipt if it's under a certain dollar amount.

The same option that Kenny and I use...

 

[SB621]

Unfortunately, I do not have USAA. FI and I are both not military, nor do we have parents who are military. For some reason, this keeps getting recommended to me regardless

Just shop around. I called a few places before we ended up going with USAA. I know there is an option to add on to your renters or owners home insurance. I have seen that discussed before but dont' remember the details. USAA used to allow non-military benefits to certain areas. Apparently VPP used to be one of them, but they don't do it any longer so I think that is why they got recommended for a while, (I know I suggested them several times) but you are right- now VPP is only availabe to actual military and their deps.

 

[denverappraiser]

What is JF??

That's a typo. I meant JM.

'Replacement value' is generally an estimate of what it would cost to replace your item new in the case of a loss. With recent purchases this is indeed often the same as the purchase price but it's not always. For example some replacements need to be custom made while the original came from a factory. Some purchases are closeouts, used or distressed goods while the replacement is going to be new. Sometimes people really do get a 'deal' that can't be repeated. This is what I mean by asking your appraiser to explain their reasoning. A replacement value that's higher than the transaction price, possibly even quite a bit higher, isn't necessarily an error, but it is a reason to ask questions.

 

[lovebug1031]

Wait… you guys think that her premium is too much? I'm paying almost $700/yr, including a $2500 deductible. It was like a $50 difference extra from getting the plan with a $5000 deductible. I felt like it was a lot, but I figured if I were to lose my e-ring at anytime, it would be within the first year. I opted to divide the payments into multiple payments a year so it doesn't hurt so much. Maybe I should reevaluate? Or?

What other options are there? Unlike OP, I did not over inflate the insured amount. I insured it for the appraised amount from Patrick Davis + the exact dollar amount I paid for the setting. I got the stone independently appraised (it was at my purchase price + a *very* small amount to give room for an estimated 5 years' worth of inflation) and just sent in the receipt for the setting since their site says you can use just a receipt if it's under a certain dollar amount.



Unfortunately, I do not have USAA. FI and I are both not military, nor do we have parents who are military. For some reason, this keeps getting recommended to me regardless

not sure that USAA is cheaper for everyone....i had my FI quote USAA for me, and it was higher by nearly double! Mind you, i don't have a very pricey e-ring - but it's pricey enough for us, that we couldn't afford to replace out of pocket if something happened to it!

 

[msop04]

What is JF??

That's a typo. I meant JM.

'Replacement value' is generally an estimate of what it would cost to replace your item new in the case of a loss. With recent purchases this is indeed often the same as the purchase price but it's not always. For example some replacements need to be custom made while the original came from a factory. Some purchases are closeouts, used or distressed goods while the replacement is going to be new. Sometimes people really do get a 'deal' that can't be repeated. This is what I mean by asking your appraiser to explain their reasoning. A replacement value that's higher than the transaction price, possibly even quite a bit higher, isn't necessarily an error, but it is a reason to ask questions.

I will most definitely be asking some questions, since I find it difficult to believe the price of my stone/setting would have jumped so much... with the kind of money they have appraised it at, I could easily be looking at higher color/clarity or larger stones. As a matter of fact, I ran a search on JA, GOG, and WF with the same specs and price range and nothing even came up -- I'd either have to go up in carat weight or color/clarity -- neither of which would be my choice, so I don't feel it necessary to pay a higher premium.

We purchased my ering through Diamonds Direct, so their prices are like that of JA -- a little lower than a traditional B&M. I have looked around and priced similar stones on JA with same specs for almost identical to what we paid, so I don't see that as a major problem. My setting is a custom Christopher Designs, but I don't think that should be a problem either. However, if DD cannot provide a lower appraisal (preferably as close to what we paid as possible), I will have to get an independent one done. My SA at DD was so great, but he is no longer working for DD. He is with a family-owned jeweler in town (he was with them for 8 years before DD opened), so hopefully he can help me out if need be.

<fingers crossed!!>

Since you mentioned being able to replicate the setting... in the event that I would have to actually use my insurance policy (please, Dear Lord, I hope this never happens...), would it be necessary to have the exact same setting, or do they just use the overall value of the entire ring towards another?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

msop, are you in NC? You don't have to name city, but what general area?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

No, you would not have to replace with the exact same setting or diamond. You could change and upgrade either. But they will pay for what you currently have to be replaced and you pay the difference in the upgrades.

 

[denverappraiser]

Normally the insurance company is agreeing to replace with 'like kind and quality' or words to that effect in the case of a covered loss. They use the description portion of the appraisal along with the photographs as a purchase order to the supplier to define what is like kind and quality. If there is a particular brand involved and that's part of the description, they'll try to get that same brand although sometimes there's a bit of negotiation on this point. Some brands are easy to replace and some aren't. They'll pay whatever thy need to based on that description and as long as that's below the face value of your policy, that's the end of it.

If you want something else, say an upgrade on the stone or even a completely different design, they will figure out what it would cost them to do the above and that's how much they will contribute to the new ring. Again, the maximum limit of the policy doesn't really matter unless it's too low.

 

[ame]

I have a bit of a struggle with that like kind thing, which is kinda why I am glad Chubb is my carrier, and hopefully continues to always keep me and my cash out policy despite having a claim from a few years ago (Is it sad that I STILL look in pawn shops for my old stone???). My current stone is a one of a kind in a way that most stones are not. This brand doesn't source and cut rough of this clarity grade anymore and this particular stone is from the original cutting house that owned the brand, not the one that currently owns it. So unless we found a lucky dog in the pipeline of supply that was a trade-in...it would have to be recut custom. It's valuation reflects that.

msop, JM requires an appraisal for rings over a certain cost, and someone has suggested it is $5000. I have my coverage with Chubb, but when my daughter got engaged, they used JM and that is what they were told.

The mistake you made was using an inflated appraisal to insure. I always use my sales receipts with Chubb because all I care to do is protect the investment I have made in the diamond. I would never, ever make a claim for setting damage because making claims hurts you in premiums later. So I will insure my pieces for what I paid, and if prices go up 20% over a few years, I'll evenutally increase the coverage.

In light of all the crap I dealt with in the past with settings, I actually tried to do that, and Chubb would not accept an appraisal on a loose stone for insurance. I asked if I got the appraisals redone and submitted new receipts if that could be corrected and they told me (after a wait of almost a week while it was sent up the chain for an answer) that it was not an option because "the stone had to be set for it to be insured at all, because it is intended to be set and eventually worn as a jewelry piece." If it stayed loose and was never set, that would be different insurance apparently altogether. I shrugged and said ok whatever. It's insured in full through them and still ends up in the safe 90% of the time anyway.

Chubb usually does an annual increase for inflation anyway.

 

[msop04]

msop, are you in NC? You don't have to name city, but what general area?

I'm actually in Birmingham, AL.

Edit: I'm not in Bham proper, but about 20 miles outside of it... it's a very nice area, and the crime rate is is all but nonexistant compared to Bham city (since that's figured into the premium...)

 

[msop04]

No, you would not have to replace with the exact same setting or diamond. You could change and upgrade either. But they will pay for what you currently have to be replaced and you pay the difference in the upgrades.

Okay, this is what I thought... thanks.

 

[msop04]

Normally the insurance company is agreeing to replace with 'like kind and quality' or words to that effect in the case of a covered loss. They use the description portion of the appraisal along with the photographs as a purchase order to the supplier to define what is like kind and quality. If there is a particular brand involved and that's part of the description, they'll try to get that same brand although sometimes there's a bit of negotiation on this point. Some brands are easy to replace and some aren't. They'll pay whatever thy need to based on that description and as long as that's below the face value of your policy, that's the end of it.

If you want something else, say an upgrade on the stone or even a completely different design, they will figure out what it would cost them to do the above and that's how much they will contribute to the new ring. Again, the maximum limit of the policy doesn't really matter unless it's too low.

Cool, this was my understanding...

 

[msop04]

I have a bit of a struggle with that like kind thing, which is kinda why I am glad Chubb is my carrier, and hopefully continues to always keep me and my cash out policy despite having a claim from a few years ago (Is it sad that I STILL look in pawn shops for my old stone???). My current stone is a one of a kind in a way that most stones are not. This brand doesn't source and cut rough of this clarity grade anymore and this particular stone is from the original cutting house that owned the brand, not the one that currently owns it. So unless we found a lucky dog in the pipeline of supply that was a trade-in...it would have to be recut custom. It's valuation reflects that.

In light of all the crap I dealt with in the past with settings, I actually tried to do that, and Chubb would not accept an appraisal on a loose stone for insurance. I asked if I got the appraisals redone and submitted new receipts if that could be corrected and they told me (after a wait of almost a week while it was sent up the chain for an answer) that it was not an option because "the stone had to be set for it to be insured at all, because it is intended to be set and eventually worn as a jewelry piece." If it stayed loose and was never set, that would be different insurance apparently altogether. I shrugged and said ok whatever. It's insured in full through them and still ends up in the safe 90% of the time anyway.

Chubb usually does an annual increase for inflation anyway.

No, ame, it's not sad that you still look -- I think I would always be looking for it, had it been mine... That's great that you have Chubb -- we can't use it because we don't plan on insuring larger items (like our home) with them as well. I was talking with DH about all this last night and he asked what would happen if we were like 85 years old and my ring was lost or stolen... Could we just get the money and choose not to replace the ring?? I told him no, but that Chubb would write a check... nice policy to have for sure!

My stone is just the run of the mill MRB, but I understand your beef with the whole "like kind" thing... hopefully, you'll never have to worry about this -- I wouldn't wish that heartache on anyone... Since we had made the decision to shop around for coverage with a premium that more fits what we'd want, I just started thinking about the "what ifs" of it all. I don't know that I would want to try to have my custom setting remade, because I may have different tastes (not to mention I don't know if it could be done exactly the same as before, and that would drive me insane).

I've had my ering insured with JM since July of 2012, and it has already increased over $3K -- UGH! ...guess that's just part of it.