How much did you spend / would you spend on an e-ring?

[TC1987]

I think that's the concensus, lookingforever. He is bitter at the thought of having to spend his money on the woman he wants to spend his life with... sounds like a great start to me. Clearly, the only "good" investments to him include monetary returns -- which is good since he loves to talk about how much he's paying for a home and to live in a very nice area... basically bragging about how much he makes.
...

That's exactly what I read into his comments too, and added chauvinistic domineering male who automatically ranks his (future) wife as his subordinate. How much crapwork are most wives expected to do in a marriage? A lot. Yet, none of this wife-work with which he is about to burden her is worth the price of a nice diamond engagement ring? This guy thinks he's already doing the woman enough of a favor by just marrying her. If he had to pay someone by the hour to do every bit of the wife-work, I wonder how much he'd be griping then. He's a short-term thinker, for certain. --- "buh-Bye, Cruel Pricescope!"

 

[Dreamer_D]

I know the OP may not read my advice, but I will post it anyways because I know many lurkers silently read and follow these threads.

The term "diamond wholesaler" is often used by retailers who want to give the impression they are giving you a great price.Don't be fooled. If a diamond vendor is selling to individuals in the public they are a retailer in that particular transaction and usually a guided by the same need for profit as other retailers. Do not pay cash for the diamond. Get a receipt that clearly lables the item purchased. Make sure you have at least a 7 day unconditional return-for-cash policy. Do your homework. Only buy a diamond with a GIA or AGS lab report to ensure accurate valuation. And check Blue Nile for comparable pricing to ensure you are actually paying a fair price.

And I also never recommend buying from a "friend" or a "friend of a friend" or someone you meet through business. Those transaction often end badly because people don't follow the guidelines I listed in the previous paragraph.

 

[msop04]

I know the OP may not read my advice, but I will post it anyways because I know many lurkers silently read and follow these threads.

The term "diamond wholesaler" is often used by retailers who want to give the impression they are giving you a great price.Don't be fooled. If a diamond vendor is selling to individuals in the public they are a retailer in that particular transaction and usually a guided by the same need for profit as other retailers. Do not pay cash for the diamond. Get a receipt that clearly lables the item purchased. Make sure you have at least a 7 day unconditional return-for-cash policy. Do your homework. Only buy a diamond with a GIA or AGS lab report to ensure accurate valuation. And check Blue Nile for comparable pricing to ensure you are actually paying a fair price.

And I also never recommend buying from a "friend" or a "friend of a friend" or someone you meet through business. Those transaction often end badly because people don't follow the guidelines I listed in the previous paragraph.

Thanks for posting and reiterating this, Dreamer -- this is something so many people fall for when shopping for diamonds.

 

[SB621]

I know the OP may not read my advice, but I will post it anyways because I know many lurkers silently read and follow these threads.

The term "diamond wholesaler" is often used by retailers who want to give the impression they are giving you a great price.Don't be fooled. If a diamond vendor is selling to individuals in the public they are a retailer in that particular transaction and usually a guided by the same need for profit as other retailers. Do not pay cash for the diamond. Get a receipt that clearly lables the item purchased. Make sure you have at least a 7 day unconditional return-for-cash policy. Do your homework. Only buy a diamond with a GIA or AGS lab report to ensure accurate valuation. And check Blue Nile for comparable pricing to ensure you are actually paying a fair price.

And I also never recommend buying from a "friend" or a "friend of a friend" or someone you meet through business. Those transaction often end badly because people don't follow the guidelines I listed in the previous paragraph.

+1 OP you should beware. Many people think they have found a friend, a wholesaler, or someone who just charges a "finders fee" for a diamond. If it is too good to be true then it is. Make sure you do as much research as you can. Diamonds aren't created equal and there are many out there that ppl buy from "wholesalers" thinking they got a deal on a great diamond.

 

[TC1987]

OP: And have the diamond checked by a very knowledgeable independent appraiser, too. There are lots of diamonds out there, but they are not the best-cut things, by today's standards. And there are estates selling diamonds, but you can't count on those diamonds matching their paperwork.

We have discussions on there that say online retailers want about a 10% - 15% profit on a sale, and some drop shippers might settle for less. But, anyone running a brick and mortar store is aiming for 30% or better. So your "wholesaler" buddy might not be getting any less profit, but could be selling you a lesser diamond.

 

[mandasand]

I can't believe he didn't take Gypsy''s help! I guess he wasn't looking for help finding a ring from jewelry experts!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Guys, after reading all of the replies I just want to say thank you to all people who provided positive feedback. For those that didn't, I am sorry for provoking the worst in you. My intensions were good, but I was struggling internally to justifying the purchase and I vented but clearly to the wrong group.

On the positive side, I am excited to say a ring purchase will occur soon, regardless of my views. Most of my friends feel the exact same way, but they all did it. I am not buying a big diamond to show off because I couldn't care less what people think (yes, cocky and arrogant, got it). On that note, I will take it from here solo. Have a few offers from local wholesalers and recently got introduced to a diamond "source" who can basically get these things at cost and will charge me a reasonable finders fee. Guess perks of my arrogant job and events I go to - you meet people!!! Very much a better investment than a diamond, contrary to what someone posted earlier.

Thank you all. Maybe I will come back and post pics when I buy it. Enjoy the board and all the best.

'Wholesalers"...LOL!!. You just found "my uncle Freddy" the used car salesman...

 

[RockyRacoon]

Have a few offers from local wholesalers and recently got introduced to a diamond "source" who can basically get these things at cost and will charge me a reasonable finders fee. Guess perks of my arrogant job and events I go to - you meet people!!! Very much a better investment than a diamond, contrary to what someone posted earlier.

Thank you all. Maybe I will come back and post pics when I buy it. Enjoy the board and all the best.

You are being hustled.

I work in Finance, as well. Did you know that there are jewelry people who specifically target the ibank / financial sector? This is what you've encountered as one of the 'perks' of your job.

Again, you are being hustled.

 

[msop04]

Have a few offers from local wholesalers and recently got introduced to a diamond "source" who can basically get these things at cost and will charge me a reasonable finders fee. Guess perks of my arrogant job and events I go to - you meet people!!! Very much a better investment than a diamond, contrary to what someone posted earlier.

Thank you all. Maybe I will come back and post pics when I buy it. Enjoy the board and all the best.

You are being hustled.

I work in Finance, as well. Did you know that there are jewelry people who specifically target the ibank / financial sector? This is what you've encountered as one of the 'perks' of your job.

Again, you are being hustled.

Couldn't have happened to a "smarter" guy... smh.

 

[Begonia]

My thinking for now is to spend ~4.0% of my annual income. This will provide me with enough of a budget for a decent sized ring, albeit again, it's a bitter pill to swallow!

Buy her a nice ring. Actually buy her a really nice ring (within reason considering your financial obligations). Surprise the hell out of her (with her input of course).

No you can't drive it, eat it, educate it, or invest it. Diamonds are a poor investment. Your wife is a good investment. This act of selflessness will come back to you in spades my friend.

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

My thinking for now is to spend ~4.0% of my annual income. This will provide me with enough of a budget for a decent sized ring, albeit again, it's a bitter pill to swallow!

Buy her a nice ring. Actually buy her a really nice ring (within reason considering your financial obligations). Surprise the hell out of her (with her input of course).

No you can't drive it, eat it, educate it, or invest it. Diamonds are a poor investment. Your wife is a good investment. This act of selflessness will come back to you in spades my friend.

+ 1,000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[SciLaw]

Wow, interesting watching women beat up on a guy in this thread for expressing what a lot of guys think about this whole process. Frankly, as a newbie to the board, he could easily have been addressing his questions to other guy's in his situation (like myself) versus the longtime "collectors".

I initially was a lot like the OP. I was looking at getting a colored stone (ruby or sapphire) which I felt were "more rare" as opposed to getting on the colorless diamond bandwagon. I even thought about getting a yellow diamond. Unfortunately, this got nixed by my girlfriend. Fine, I'll get her what she wants.

Well this is her criteria, 1.2-1.4 G VS2 RBC from Tiffany, excellent cut. I had picked out some nice stones on WF but she was adamant about the Tiffany. As you can imagine since I was already worried about getting a diamond, paying the premium for a Tiffany ring was even more painful (as a value proposition).

And here's where I think there's a level of hypocrisy coming from a number of posters in this thread. A lot of you bash this guy for wondering about the value of buying a diamond which is a total luxury good. Yet you are the same posters that bash folks for overspending on a Tiffany ring (which is a branded luxury good). Just as you feel slighted for being mocked for buying a trinket, why do you feel it's ok mocking someone for buying a Tiffany trinket?

The funny thing is I count myself lucky. My girlfriend doesn't want a big stone--most of the women in our social group are sporting 2+ carats and up and she was willing to let me get an estate Tiffany ring. I finally found one that is around 40% of a retail Tiffany ring and cheaper than an equivalent stone (without setting) at WF. 4% of my annual salary.

We live in an expensive city (SF), both own houses, both bought our nice German cars used. It's not that easy to save up a good nest egg for the future so I found the OPs post great in showing that there is a different viewpoint on this whole e-ring business.

 

[mrs-b]

I think you're generalizing, SciLaw. If you look at the 'Show Me The Bling' forum, you'll see a current thread dedicated to showing off people's Tiffany purchases.

Most people's beef with Tiffany diamonds is that they don't have their stones independently certified. They do have their own grading standards as to where they purchase their stones, but that's a little like buying a car that someone ASSURES you is a BMW, despite there being no observable proof, just because someone bought it in Germany. The old 'it's a really, really really good diamond…because i say so, and I'm an expert' approach doesn't sit well with people who dedicate significant amounts of time knowing, loving, and learning about diamonds.

But this is really neither here nor there. The OP's post had an arrogance, not just a difference of opinion, which grated. He can be on a 'learning curve' - or he can flat out disagree. But to turn up using inflammatory language and a superior attitude is rarely appreciated - in any forum.

And for the record, I have a couple of pieces from Tiffany, and I enjoy them very much - as I'm sure your girl enjoys her ring.

 

[SciLaw]

Yes, I'm generalizing. But I don't think you'll disagree there's a heavy level of eye-rolling towards certain Tiffany purchases on this board and it seems to be accepted (whereas this guy was taken to town).

 

[yssie]

Wow, interesting watching women beat up on a guy in this thread for expressing what a lot of guys think about this whole process. Frankly, as a newbie to the board, he could easily have been addressing his questions to other guy's in his situation (like myself) versus the longtime "collectors".

I initially was a lot like the OP. I was looking at getting a colored stone (ruby or sapphire) which I felt were "more rare" as opposed to getting on the colorless diamond bandwagon. I even thought about getting a yellow diamond. Unfortunately, this got nixed by my girlfriend. Fine, I'll get her what she wants.

Well this is her criteria, 1.2-1.4 G VS2 RBC from Tiffany, excellent cut. I had picked out some nice stones on WF but she was adamant about the Tiffany. As you can imagine since I was already worried about getting a diamond, paying the premium for a Tiffany ring was even more painful (as a value proposition).

And here's where I think there's a level of hypocrisy coming from a number of posters in this thread. A lot of you bash this guy for wondering about the value of buying a diamond which is a total luxury good. Yet you are the same posters that bash folks for overspending on a Tiffany ring (which is a branded luxury good). Just as you feel slighted for being mocked for buying a trinket, why do you feel it's ok mocking someone for buying a Tiffany trinket?

The funny thing is I count myself lucky. My girlfriend doesn't want a big stone--most of the women in our social group are sporting 2+ carats and up and she was willing to let me get an estate Tiffany ring. I finally found one that is around 40% of a retail Tiffany ring and cheaper than an equivalent stone (without setting) at WF. 4% of my annual salary.

We live in an expensive city (SF), both own houses, both bought our nice German cars used. It's not that easy to save up a good nest egg for the future so I found the OPs post great in showing that there is a different viewpoint on this whole e-ring business.

Tiffany-bashing was indeed a popular pasttime on this forum several years ago. That is, most happily, no longer the case - in fact I rather think over the past couple of years we've seen a resurgence in popularity of branded goods; I like mrs-blop's summary. I personally have come to understand and value branding - owning a part of and participating in a luxe and colourful history - considerably more than I used to, for which PSer Smith1940 deserves much of the credit. Here is one of her explanations:

Well personally I'd go with the VC&A because the brand has more cachet to me. imo Tiffany is more like Louis Vuitton, like everyone has them now and it's so mainstream. It may not be the Walmart of jewelry, but it's probably the Dillards to VC&A's Neimans. I mean. If you're going to be brand-conscious, really be brand-conscious, you know what I'm saying? Don't get what the proles are getting, dear god.

Snort.
Tiffany... Tiffany really has gone mainstream (read: devalued) their brand with all the silver... their housewares, sterling, china, etc. still have a certain cachet though, I think.

I'd go with the Novo - you're buying a specialty diamond noone else sells. The VCA is... pretty. And utterly unremarkable aside from the monstrous pricetag - it really is the sort of ring you could get absolutely anywhere.

OK, I just have to take issue with these remarks about Tiffany.

Now, I'm the first to admit that many of their pieces are insanely overpriced. They're perfectly capable of selling a mere 18 points of H/I/J melee in a necklace costing over $2k, which is nuts. You have to pick your price battles in that store, for sure.

I also don't believe that a Tiffany diamond is necessarily "better" than a super-ideal cut from a good vendor. All diamonds are formed in the same workshop - the Earth. In fact, a super-ideal diamond from a respected Signature line like BGD or WF or BN is going to be a much better cut than some Tiffany diamonds.

It's true that Tiffany did expand their business so people who are not super-rich could own something from Tiffany. It's also true that there are some ghetto pieces in that silver collection. Like any store in the world, you have to apply taste, and stores such as Cartier etc. have some truly ugly things too. Huge, bejewelled panther, anyone? Someone should ring Cartier and tell them that 1985 is long gone.

But I digress. Tiffany may have created things which cost less, but their quality did not falter and their line of gold and gemstone jewellery has many pieces that are stunning in their design and their workmanship. I think most people realise that the silver line of jewellery is a different business proposition from the gold and platinum jewellery. Even so, the silver is very well-made. I've got some really pretty silver Tiffany pieces and even the delicate ones are weighty, durable, and perfectly formed.

I own Tiffany gold and platinum pieces too, and they are heavenly. There's a lot I wouldn't buy in there, sure, but you wouldn't be expected to like every piece in a store. Different styles appeal to different customers.

About their homewares, Tiffany has always sold those. It started as a stationery and "fancy-goods" store. Tiffany sterling tea sets were considered works of art and cost many, many thousands of dollars.

Lastly, Tiffany has an unbeatable heritage. Tiffany's silversmiths made the Belmont Cup, the Vince Lombardi Super Bowl trophy, the Goelet Cup, and the Indianapolis Race Cup, and many more cups and trophies. What's remarkable about the Indianapolis Cup is its sheer size - about eight foot tall counting the tip, and very wide, too. There was also a silver bicycle commissioned once. I don't think any jeweller has created such breathtaking pieces out of sterling silver. Thanks to Tiffany, the world first took notice of an American contribution to the world of art and design when a Tiffany silver dinner service took the grand prize at the Paris Exposition of 1878. It took two hundred men two years to make, and almost 15,000 ounces of silver. And there were many more jaw-dropping works of silver, too, commissioned for all manner of state and private occasions and for the families of the great and good.

So I don't look down my nose at Tiffany silver. To wear it is to take part in a grand tradition from probably the best silversmithing heritage in the world.

Tiffany has also been known to make tea sets in 18k gold. One of them was commissioned for Mary Flagler and is now in the Henry Morrison Flagler Museum.

Tiffany has furnished the White House and Buckingham Palace with those china and silver home wares. And in terms of jewels and precious metals, former customers include Queen Victoria, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Lyndon Johnson, and by the end of the nineteenth century no fewer than 23 royal houses were customers of Tiffany, including the Czar of Russia, the Shah of Persia, the Khedive of Egypt, the Emperor of Brazil, and the kings of Italy, Denmark, Belgium and Greece. Many Tiffany diamond, gold and gemstone pieces are considered works of art and today sit in the world's most famous museum institutions, such as the Smithsonian and the V&A.

Tiffany's higher-end pieces still demonstrate that amazing design story, and the "proles" aren't buying those kinds of Tiffany pieces.

I'm not sure why Tiffany decided to expand its market to the mainstream. Perhaps it's because Charles Tiffany came from relatively humble beginnings and his first day's takings were a mere $4.98. He then borrowed $500 and bought wholesale goods from abroad, which were promptly stolen. So Tiffany grew from nothing, and I have always found them to be a little friendlier than some other luxury brands.

Tiffany also owns the 128.51-carat canary-yellow Tiffany Diamond, one of the world's most remarkable gems and the largest, finest canary-yellow diamond in the world.

What I'm trying to say is that Tiffany's historical contribution on a global level to the world of art, design and metalwork is unrivalled. For me, the existence of customers who clearly don't have as much money as the typical Van Cleef customer does not blind me to the towering backstory of Tiffany, which is echoed in many of its pieces today. To compare Tiffany to Walmart is to be unaware of its glittering heritage, its startling achievements, and its presence in many influential spheres of the 19th and 20th centuries.

These are all reasons why I would go with the Tiffany ring instead of the Van Cleef, in addition to the size issue.

As for the responses to OP... I confess, I found his posts distastefully coy. In management training the first thing they give you is a paper on temporal construal that boils down to "it's not what you say, it's how you say it". And since OP chose to speak his mind with arrogance, conceit, and no small measure of self-importance and self-superiority... is it any surprise that people reacted poorly?

Spend what you want. Save what you want. Value what you value, prioritise what you prioritise, and keep your judgments of what others are spending on what to yourself, and everyone's happy!

 

[pixgirl]

SciLaw - he was "taken down" because he found buying his girlfriend a "decent sized ring" a "bitter pill to swallow. No one wants a gift with those sentiments attached, much less and engagement ring and a marriage.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Wow, interesting watching women beat up on a guy in this thread for expressing what a lot of guys think about this whole process. Frankly, as a newbie to the board, he could easily have been addressing his questions to other guy's in his situation (like myself) versus the longtime "collectors".

I am also a guy, but don't agree with you.

It has nothing to do with diamonds, but has something to do with a person who thinks they know better than everyone else. There are many people here that OP could learn from, but won't, because he thinks himself informed about the issue - which he isn't.

I think it's tough for informed people to deal with ignorance, particularly when there's a tone of incredulity attached to it.

 

[SB621]

PS is about finding the very best diamond at a good value. At least to me that is the attitude most posters have. Any brand name wont be truely popular here as brand doesnt always equal value or quality. But as yssie already pointed out everyone is different and likes different things. Im surprised though that you or the op didnt understand the PS reaction. Isnt know your target audience business 101. Personally I thought it was very tame and even after the op came across so rudely others were still willing to help.

Sorry posting off cell.

 

[SciLaw]

I take Yssie's point. I looked back at my Tiffany searches on pricescope and a lot of the snarky and vicious posts about Tiffany's were in 2007 or earlier (but there are still some recent gems).

That being said, I still thought the OP criticism was hypocritical. I understand the behavior. I just think people need to look in the mirror.

Seriously you don't see the irony of defending diamond buying by stating "well people can buy what they want and you shouldn't criticize or insult me about buying diamonds because we can do what we want with our money" and then having threads bashing Tiffany's (or Cartier) for being too expensive?

For example :

a) Going to Tiffany's is a "subpar way to purchase diamonds" This isn't arrogant?

b) "Girls [who talk about Tiffany's] may need to brag but I can assure you Ladies do not" really? buying an unbranded 2.5 carat ring and posting is not bragging but a woman mentioning her ring is from Tiffany is bragging?

c) Tiffany has a "low level understanding of diamonds" What does this say about purchasers at Tiffany?

d) Tiffany values "totally inflated" and are "not even close"

e) Self referential poster states "I'm a diamond expert" to Tiffany purchaser.

f) "No name brands outperforms Tiffany on so many levels"

How does any of the above differ in arrogance and tone from the OP?

As an aside, after going to the Bvlgari exhibit at the DeYoung museum in SF, I found a Bvlgari Griffe estate ring and it was a total non-starter for my GF. There was something about going to see the exhibit which made me rethink the cachet of name brand luxury goods.

PS Forgive me if I didn't know PS' sole role was to buy diamonds at the best price. I thought it was more than that.

 

[msop04]

Wow, interesting watching women beat up on a guy in this thread for expressing what a lot of guys think about this whole process. Frankly, as a newbie to the board, he could easily have been addressing his questions to other guy's in his situation (like myself) versus the longtime "collectors".

I initially was a lot like the OP. I was looking at getting a colored stone (ruby or sapphire) which I felt were "more rare" as opposed to getting on the colorless diamond bandwagon. I even thought about getting a yellow diamond. Unfortunately, this got nixed by my girlfriend. Fine, I'll get her what she wants.

Well this is her criteria, 1.2-1.4 G VS2 RBC from Tiffany, excellent cut. I had picked out some nice stones on WF but she was adamant about the Tiffany. As you can imagine since I was already worried about getting a diamond, paying the premium for a Tiffany ring was even more painful (as a value proposition).

And here's where I think there's a level of hypocrisy coming from a number of posters in this thread. A lot of you bash this guy for wondering about the value of buying a diamond which is a total luxury good. Yet you are the same posters that bash folks for overspending on a Tiffany ring (which is a branded luxury good). Just as you feel slighted for being mocked for buying a trinket, why do you feel it's ok mocking someone for buying a Tiffany trinket?

The funny thing is I count myself lucky. My girlfriend doesn't want a big stone--most of the women in our social group are sporting 2+ carats and up and she was willing to let me get an estate Tiffany ring. I finally found one that is around 40% of a retail Tiffany ring and cheaper than an equivalent stone (without setting) at WF. 4% of my annual salary.

We live in an expensive city (SF), both own houses, both bought our nice German cars used. It's not that easy to save up a good nest egg for the future so I found the OPs post great in showing that there is a different viewpoint on this whole e-ring business.

SciLaw,

I think it's pretty obvious why the OP "took a beating" from some of the members of this forum, so I won't go into that.

As for the Tiffany bashing you speak of... It's not that PS members were anti-Tiffany -- I know my own personal problem with Tiffany wasn't the brand itself, as they have some gorgeous pieces. It was only irritating when the consumer simply assumed they were safe with Tiffany for "the best quality" and didn't have to worry about it. Well, you do. Although Tiffany has some very nice stones, they are also known to sell very deep stones and a few "dogs." ...but at a premium with a certificate saying otherwise (and, conveniently, graded in-house by... Tiffany).

 

[CharmyPoo]

I love Tiffany designs and truly believe they have some of the best designs over the years. I collect their books and even buy old catalogs off ebay. I may never buy a Tiffany e-ring brand new but I appreciate their brand.

 

[bgray]

Yes, I'm generalizing. But I don't think you'll disagree there's a heavy level of eye-rolling towards certain Tiffany purchases on this board and it seems to be accepted (whereas this guy was taken to town).

Methinks SciLaw is a plant for the OP. OP was arrogant, smug and condescending. He didnt want help. He gets off on insulting and mocking others that he deems beneath him for their poor financial decisions and low class priorities.

 

[Laila619]

My thinking for now is to spend ~4.0% of my annual income. This will provide me with enough of a budget for a decent sized ring, albeit again, it's a bitter pill to swallow!

Buy her a nice ring. Actually buy her a really nice ring (within reason considering your financial obligations). Surprise the hell out of her (with her input of course).

No you can't drive it, eat it, educate it, or invest it. Diamonds are a poor investment. Your wife is a good investment. This act of selflessness will come back to you in spades my friend.

I agree, however nice doesn't have to = expensive. People were acting like if he didn't spend a ton of money, it wouldn't be a nice ring.

Side note: Tiffany grades their own diamonds, BUT one can also see the GIA report on the diamond if you ask.

 

[heididdl]

When did this thread become about Tiffany that's an entirely different thread oy vey.. Let's finallly end this thread its giving me a headache.

 

[bgray]

When did this thread become about Tiffany that's an entirely different thread oy vey.. Let's finallly end this thread its giving me a headache.

agreed. enough of both Tiffany sparring and OP

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just read all 7 pages and I concur with bgray and others. There was no purpose in this thread because the OP didn't want any help. Good luck with the old diamond "wholesaler" scam.

Threads like this make me really appreciate my husband. We are also conservative financially, for the record.

(And one more thing. Don't insult me and insinuate I am so stupid to have to have a diamond because of DeBeers marketing. I have liked gems, diamonds, and jewelry since I was a little girl, and I have a husband who wants me to enjoy this life. You can't take it with you, buddy!)