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I sincerely apologize @Dancing Fire . I thought you were making a remark to @soxfan when you did no such thing.
Hope the President does a good job for USA
- Thread starter AnnaH
- Start date
I sincerely apologize @Dancing Fire . I thought you were making a remark to @soxfan when you did no such thing.
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No apology required. Liberals are never wrong.
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The avg white supremacist are very poor. The liberals are Richie Rich.
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80% of the college professors are left wingers. They taught liberalism to all the young college students across the US. They can easily brainwash the young and vulnerable. sad
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The bold is absolutely untrue. Violent people act out for their own benefit or hatred. And it is often, not rarely. An entire career has proven this to me, if it is in someone then it will come out. This country is full of people who cannot control themselves.
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DF, your using whataboutism is simply to deflect from the issue at hand and not answering the question.
Whataboutism: (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.
Whataboutism: (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.
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@redwood66 , I do not deny that individuals can, and will, perform violent acts despite the threat of social sanctions. Nor do I deny your experience - I am very sorry that you have had repeated unpleasant experiences with people like that who casts a dark shadow over humankind.
Your experience seems to be more unusual rather than the norm. Decades of research in Psychology, Sociology and even Neuroscience on human behavior have shown the general effectiveness of social norms and sanctions in society as a way to regulate most people's behavior.
When norms are being contested and the line becomes blurry as to what is acceptable or not, it becomes a way for individuals and groups who held non-normative beliefs to push the boundaries and act out, because they perceive they are less likely to be punished/sanctioned by others for acting on such beliefs.
Once upon a time the idea of white supremacists running for office seemed like an impossibility. Now we have quite a few running for office, with robocall messages to constituents that "Jews are taking over the world" and "they must be stopped."
What will the voters say when they go to the polls? Do we continue sliding down this path of hate? That is a question that I am worried about.
Your experience seems to be more unusual rather than the norm. Decades of research in Psychology, Sociology and even Neuroscience on human behavior have shown the general effectiveness of social norms and sanctions in society as a way to regulate most people's behavior.
When norms are being contested and the line becomes blurry as to what is acceptable or not, it becomes a way for individuals and groups who held non-normative beliefs to push the boundaries and act out, because they perceive they are less likely to be punished/sanctioned by others for acting on such beliefs.
Once upon a time the idea of white supremacists running for office seemed like an impossibility. Now we have quite a few running for office, with robocall messages to constituents that "Jews are taking over the world" and "they must be stopped."
What will the voters say when they go to the polls? Do we continue sliding down this path of hate? That is a question that I am worried about.
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@Alexiszoe I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. But I do not think that people who are doing heinous things should be off the hook by using this as an excuse. People are individuals and should be held accountable for their actions. Trump is who he is but he is not guiding some underground racist cult out to harm any person who is not a member. This is not to let Trump off the hook for his idiocy either. People have taken advantage of the situation and he should be more forceful in his rhetoric against it. These people and their thoughts existed before Trump.
We have had white supremacists in office plenty in the past but it is becoming less and with the media the fact is known far in advance. That these people are out there and known rather than just local is good. You will never rid society of those with these thoughts and hate groups are not just one color. Frankly I would rather know who they are in public than have them be underground. Once you know, LE and your local people can do something about it. I know this for a fact because I live in an area that has done it. People should never put up with bad behavior of any kind.
We have had white supremacists in office plenty in the past but it is becoming less and with the media the fact is known far in advance. That these people are out there and known rather than just local is good. You will never rid society of those with these thoughts and hate groups are not just one color. Frankly I would rather know who they are in public than have them be underground. Once you know, LE and your local people can do something about it. I know this for a fact because I live in an area that has done it. People should never put up with bad behavior of any kind.
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You’re a great woman red. Thank you.Me too! I will do my part by not calling people hysterical. I apologize.
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Are you referring to BLM?
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“Republican patriots, Where are you?”
Well hell, I’ve been wondering that for a very long time.
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Look who's talking?. Brennan was the head of the CIA in 2016 and he did nothing about it? What a stupid idiot.
The more the Obama Admin talk the more foolish they all sound. For some reasons they forgot who was in charge during the 2016 election.
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Does that mean you disagree with their opinion on Trump’s actions today?
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It means their opinion means less than a knat's behind to me.
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Seriously....after what we all saw today, this is what you have to say????
No big deal that the President of the United States trashed our FBI and Intellegence agencies as he stood up for Putin. WOW
And kneeling during the anthem as a silent protest is a horrendous act.
Your President is a disgrace. He betrayed our country today.
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I would like to hear how you feel about Trump’s actions today. You’re one of the few conservatives on the board. Your opinion is valuable to me.
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Thank you for asking.
Trump's way of speaking always irritates me. I don't think anyone should believe anything Putin says and I don't think Trump does. Putin should be held at arms length. I am disappointed at Trump's response about the intelligence reports of involvement of Russia and what amounts to throwing Coats under the bus. It was not a good point and makes for bad press (much like the Obama Medvedev hot mic comment). He makes his own issues worse by doing things like this. We need to attempt to have some semblance of a relationship with Russia despite meddling because that has been happening for quite awhile. It wasn't just the last election. Shaming Putin publicly helps Putin in Russia and that's what he cares about most. Sanctions are still in place with more placed by Congress in the past year and they are hurting Russia economically.
See Obama's comments in Dec. 2016:
...
But keep in mind that we already have enormous numbers of sanctions against the Russians. The relationship between us and Russia has deteriorated, sadly, significantly over the last several years. And so how we approach an appropriate response that increases costs for them for behavior like this in the future but does not create problems for us is something that's worth taking the time to think through and figure out. And that's exactly what we've done.
So, at a point in time where we've taken certain actions that we can divulge publicly, we will do so. There are times where the message will be directly received by the Russians and not publicized. And I should point out by the way, part of why the Russians have been effective on this is because they don't go around announcing what they're doing. It's not like Putin's gone around the world publicly saying, look what we did. Wasn't that clever? He denies it.
So the idea that somehow public shaming is gonna be effective, I think doesn't read the -- the thought process in Russia very well. OK.
transpcript:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...sian-hacking-and-more/?utm_term=.b26de63eece0
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Trump's public stance and choosing to believe Putin, ignoring the CIA and FBI's warnings and findings and throwing our people and the loyal agents under the bus is devastating.
These agents have dedicated their entire lives to serving the nation - often at the cost of their own personal lives.
Multiple divorces. Alienated from their kids. Health issues due to long term stress.
Why? Because they chose to put their country FIRST over their personal lives. Being on call 24/7, working long hours, and sometimes not being able to call your spouse or let them know what is going on and "disappearing" (due to national security) puts an incredible amount of strain on any marriage. Not to mention you can't talk about work with your spouse, ever.
These are the patriots of our country, who fight quietly behind the scenes. And the belittling, discrediting, and now, on an international stage, undermining our own people and choosing to side with a foreign agent who has ALREADY been proven to meddle in our nation is the punch in the gut for all the thankless tasks and sacrifices our agents have made for our country.
These agents have dedicated their entire lives to serving the nation - often at the cost of their own personal lives.
Multiple divorces. Alienated from their kids. Health issues due to long term stress.
Why? Because they chose to put their country FIRST over their personal lives. Being on call 24/7, working long hours, and sometimes not being able to call your spouse or let them know what is going on and "disappearing" (due to national security) puts an incredible amount of strain on any marriage. Not to mention you can't talk about work with your spouse, ever.
These are the patriots of our country, who fight quietly behind the scenes. And the belittling, discrediting, and now, on an international stage, undermining our own people and choosing to side with a foreign agent who has ALREADY been proven to meddle in our nation is the punch in the gut for all the thankless tasks and sacrifices our agents have made for our country.
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Thank you for asking.
Trump's way of speaking always irritates me. I don't think anyone should believe anything Putin says and I don't think Trump does. Putin should be held at arms length. I am disappointed at Trump's response about the intelligence reports of involvement of Russia and what amounts to throwing Coats under the bus. It was not a good point and makes for bad press (much like the Obama Medvedev hot mic comment). He makes his own issues worse by doing things like this. We need to attempt to have some semblance of a relationship with Russia despite meddling because that has been happening for quite awhile. It wasn't just the last election. Shaming Putin publicly helps Putin in Russia and that's what he cares about most. Sanctions are still in place with more placed by Congress in the past year and they are hurting Russia economically.
See Obama's comments in Dec. 2016:
...
But keep in mind that we already have enormous numbers of sanctions against the Russians. The relationship between us and Russia has deteriorated, sadly, significantly over the last several years. And so how we approach an appropriate response that increases costs for them for behavior like this in the future but does not create problems for us is something that's worth taking the time to think through and figure out. And that's exactly what we've done.
So, at a point in time where we've taken certain actions that we can divulge publicly, we will do so. There are times where the message will be directly received by the Russians and not publicized. And I should point out by the way, part of why the Russians have been effective on this is because they don't go around announcing what they're doing. It's not like Putin's gone around the world publicly saying, look what we did. Wasn't that clever? He denies it.
So the idea that somehow public shaming is gonna be effective, I think doesn't read the -- the thought process in Russia very well. OK.
transpcript:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...sian-hacking-and-more/?utm_term=.b26de63eece0
She asked what you thought about Trumps actions today and you posted that he irritates you. The entire rest of the post was about Obama. This is exactly why I don't ask for conservative opinions any more
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I posted what I thought. Because it does not equate to what you thought is irrelevant.She asked what you thought about Trumps actions today and you posted that he irritates you. The entire rest of the post was about Obama. This is exactly why I don't ask for conservative opinions any more
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http://thefederalist.com/2018/07/17...trump-administration-still-pressuring-russia/
I am with Newt on this one though.
https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1018967261418344450
President Trump must clarify his statements in Helsinki on our intelligence system and Putin. It is the most serious mistake of his presidency and must be corrected—-immediately.
I am with Newt on this one though.
https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1018967261418344450
President Trump must clarify his statements in Helsinki on our intelligence system and Putin. It is the most serious mistake of his presidency and must be corrected—-immediately.
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Oh red. I can’t finish that federalist article. Are they really saying Trump is justified in NOT defending our nation because he’s sticking it to the left? What planet are we on where these priorities are straight?
Humiliating Putin wouldn’t be productive but rolling over and showing him our belly isn’t either. Trump is a weak bully. He’s weak with truly powerful men. He’s a bully when he can get away with it. It’s a shame that there is a portion of our nation that can’t recognize that fact.
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No I don't think the article is saying that at all HC. It is an observation or a hypothetical reason for it. Which if they are right then it is one of the reasons that I cannot stand his demeanor. People struggle to figure out why he does things that he does and I am not sure if anyone ever has it right. It is frustrating and I cannot imagine trying to work for him.
I agree with the bold wholeheartedly.
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Trump should have never met with Putin period. Meeting him one on one alone with him was even worse. We know Putin tried to help him win the election. Our intellegence agencies know this as fact. He sided with Russia over our own country. Every flipping Republican would be going crazy (and they should) if a Democrat president did any of this.
As usual Trump tried to tackle a serious problem by winging it, no preparation and not listening to experts. He should have consulted with past presidents together before deciding how best to handle Putin. A wrong decision affects our whole country. Trump is weak and stupid. What will Trump do now?. The damage has already been done. The worst thing he could do is go and act the tough guy now. He could start a war with Russia. His ego is hurt, who know what he will do. Nothing he does has the country’s best interest at heart. He is completely self serving.
As usual Trump tried to tackle a serious problem by winging it, no preparation and not listening to experts. He should have consulted with past presidents together before deciding how best to handle Putin. A wrong decision affects our whole country. Trump is weak and stupid. What will Trump do now?. The damage has already been done. The worst thing he could do is go and act the tough guy now. He could start a war with Russia. His ego is hurt, who know what he will do. Nothing he does has the country’s best interest at heart. He is completely self serving.
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201804/understanding-the-mind-narcissist
Despite having a seemingly strong personality, narcissists lack a core self. Their self-image and thinking and behavior are other-oriented in order to stabilize and validate their self-esteem and fragile, fragmented self.
The gods sentenced Narcissus to a life without human love. He fell in love with his own reflection in pool of water and died hungering for its response. Like Narcissus, narcissists only "love" themselves as reflected in the eyes of others. It’s a common misconception that they love themselves. They may actually dislike themselves immensely. Their inflated self-flattery, perfectionism, and arrogance are merely covers for the self-loathing they don’t admit — usually even to themselves. Instead, it’s projected outward in their disdain for and criticism of others. They’re too afraid to look at themselves, because they believe the truth would be devastating. Emotionally, they may be dead inside, and hungering to be filled and validated by others. Sadly, they’re unable to appreciate the love they do get and they alienate those who give it.
The Diagnosis
When we think of narcissists, we usually picture someone with an inflated ego — someone bossy and arrogant, who has to be right. To be diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), the person must exhibit grandiosity (if only in fantasy) and lack of empathy, as exhibited by at least five of the following traits:
Early Beginnings
It’s hard to empathize with narcissists, but they didn’t choose to be that way. Their natural development was arrested, often due to faulty, early parenting. Some believe the cause lies in extreme closeness with an indulgent mother; others attribute it to parental harshness or criticalness. Although more research is required, twin studies revealed a 64-percent correlation of narcissistic behaviors, suggesting a genetic component (Livesley, Jang, Jackson, & Vernon, 1993).
Psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut observed that his narcissistic clients suffered from profound alienation, emptiness, powerlessness, and lack of meaning. Beneath a narcissistic façade, they lacked the sufficient internal structures to maintain cohesiveness, stability, and a positive self-image to provide a stable identity. Narcissists are uncertain of the boundaries between themselves and others and vacillate between dissociated states of self-inflation and inferiority. The self, divided by shame, is made up of the superior-acting, grandiose self and the inferior, devalued self. When the devalued self is in the inferior position, shame manifests by idealizing others. When the individual is in the superior position, defending against shame, the grandiose self aligns with the inner critic and devalues others through projection. Both this devaluation and idealization are commensurate with the severity of shame and the associated depression (Lancer, 2014).
Although most people fluctuate in these positions, exhibitionistic and closet narcissists are more or less static in their respective superior and inferior positions, irrespective of reality, making them pathological. Arrogance and contempt, envy, withdrawal, denial and repression (unconscious), aggression and rage, projection (blaming or accusing others of their own flaws or actions), self-pity (especially closet narcissists), and avoidance (e.g., addictive behaviors) are common defenses to shame (Lancer, 2014). Narcissists also defend against shame and fragmentation by feeling special through idealizing or identifying with special or important people.
A Relationship with a Narcissist
At home, narcissists are totally different than their public persona. They may privately denigrate the person they were just entertaining. After an initial romance, they expect appreciation of their specialness and specific responses through demands and criticism in order to manage their internal environment and protect against their high sensitivity to humiliation and shame. Relationships revolve around them, and they experience their mates as extensions of themselves.
Many narcissists are perfectionists. Nothing that others do is right or appreciated. Their partners are expected to meet their endless needs — for admiration, service, love, or purchases — and are dismissed when they don't. That their spouse is ill or in pain is inconsequential. Narcissists don’t like to hear “no” and often expect others to know their needs without having to ask. They manipulate to get their way and punish or make partners feel guilty for turning them down.
Trying to please the narcissist is thankless, like trying to fill a bottomless pit. They manage to find fault with your efforts or give back-handed compliments, so that you always feel one down. If they're momentarily pleased, they're soon disparaging or asking for more from you. They make their partners experience what it was like having had a cold, invasive, or unavailable narcissistic parent. Anne Rice’s vampire Lestat had just such an emotionally empty mother, who devotedly bonded with him to survive. The deprivation of real nurturing and a lack of boundaries make narcissists dependent on others to feed their insatiable need for validation.
Partners often doubt the narcissist's sincerity and question whether it’s really manipulation, pretense, or a manufactured “as-if” personality. They feel tense and drained from unpredictable tantrums, attacks, false accusations, criticism, and unjustified indignation about small or imaginary slights. These partners also lack boundaries and absorb whatever is said about them as truth. In vain attempts to win approval and stay connected, they sacrifice their needs and walk on eggshells, fearful of displeasing the narcissist. They daily risk blame and punishment, love being withheld, or a rupture in the relationship. They worry what their spouses will think or do, and become as preoccupied with the narcissist as they are with themselves.
Partners have to fit into the narcissists’ cold world and get used to living with emotional abandonment. Soon, they begin to doubt themselves and lose confidence and self-worth. Communicating their disappointment gets twisted and is met with defensive blame or further put-downs. The narcissist can dish it out, but not take it. Nevertheless, many partners stay, because periodically the charm, excitement, and loving gestures that first enchanted them return, especially when the narcissist feels threatened that a breakup is imminent. When two narcissists get together, they fight over whose needs come first, blame and push each other away, yet are miserable needing each other.
Often in these relationships, narcissists are the distancers when more than sex is anticipated. Getting emotionally close means giving up power and control. The thought of being dependent is abhorrent. It not only limits their options and makes them feel weak, but also exposes them to rejection and feelings of shame, which they keep from consciousness at all costs (Lancer, 2014). Their anxious partners pursue them, unconsciously replaying emotional abandonment from their past. Underneath they both feel unlovable.
Despite having a seemingly strong personality, narcissists lack a core self. Their self-image and thinking and behavior are other-oriented in order to stabilize and validate their self-esteem and fragile, fragmented self.
The gods sentenced Narcissus to a life without human love. He fell in love with his own reflection in pool of water and died hungering for its response. Like Narcissus, narcissists only "love" themselves as reflected in the eyes of others. It’s a common misconception that they love themselves. They may actually dislike themselves immensely. Their inflated self-flattery, perfectionism, and arrogance are merely covers for the self-loathing they don’t admit — usually even to themselves. Instead, it’s projected outward in their disdain for and criticism of others. They’re too afraid to look at themselves, because they believe the truth would be devastating. Emotionally, they may be dead inside, and hungering to be filled and validated by others. Sadly, they’re unable to appreciate the love they do get and they alienate those who give it.
The Diagnosis
When we think of narcissists, we usually picture someone with an inflated ego — someone bossy and arrogant, who has to be right. To be diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), the person must exhibit grandiosity (if only in fantasy) and lack of empathy, as exhibited by at least five of the following traits:
- Has a grandiose sense of self-importance and exaggerates achievements and talents.
- Dreams of unlimited power, success, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
- Believes he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions.
- Requires excessive admiration.
- Unreasonably expects special, favorable treatment or compliance with his or her wishes.
- Exploits and takes advantage of others to achieve personal ends.
- Lacks empathy for the feelings and needs of others.
- Envies others or believes they’re envious of him or her.
- Has arrogant behaviors or attitudes.
Early Beginnings
It’s hard to empathize with narcissists, but they didn’t choose to be that way. Their natural development was arrested, often due to faulty, early parenting. Some believe the cause lies in extreme closeness with an indulgent mother; others attribute it to parental harshness or criticalness. Although more research is required, twin studies revealed a 64-percent correlation of narcissistic behaviors, suggesting a genetic component (Livesley, Jang, Jackson, & Vernon, 1993).
Psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut observed that his narcissistic clients suffered from profound alienation, emptiness, powerlessness, and lack of meaning. Beneath a narcissistic façade, they lacked the sufficient internal structures to maintain cohesiveness, stability, and a positive self-image to provide a stable identity. Narcissists are uncertain of the boundaries between themselves and others and vacillate between dissociated states of self-inflation and inferiority. The self, divided by shame, is made up of the superior-acting, grandiose self and the inferior, devalued self. When the devalued self is in the inferior position, shame manifests by idealizing others. When the individual is in the superior position, defending against shame, the grandiose self aligns with the inner critic and devalues others through projection. Both this devaluation and idealization are commensurate with the severity of shame and the associated depression (Lancer, 2014).
Although most people fluctuate in these positions, exhibitionistic and closet narcissists are more or less static in their respective superior and inferior positions, irrespective of reality, making them pathological. Arrogance and contempt, envy, withdrawal, denial and repression (unconscious), aggression and rage, projection (blaming or accusing others of their own flaws or actions), self-pity (especially closet narcissists), and avoidance (e.g., addictive behaviors) are common defenses to shame (Lancer, 2014). Narcissists also defend against shame and fragmentation by feeling special through idealizing or identifying with special or important people.
A Relationship with a Narcissist
At home, narcissists are totally different than their public persona. They may privately denigrate the person they were just entertaining. After an initial romance, they expect appreciation of their specialness and specific responses through demands and criticism in order to manage their internal environment and protect against their high sensitivity to humiliation and shame. Relationships revolve around them, and they experience their mates as extensions of themselves.
Many narcissists are perfectionists. Nothing that others do is right or appreciated. Their partners are expected to meet their endless needs — for admiration, service, love, or purchases — and are dismissed when they don't. That their spouse is ill or in pain is inconsequential. Narcissists don’t like to hear “no” and often expect others to know their needs without having to ask. They manipulate to get their way and punish or make partners feel guilty for turning them down.
Trying to please the narcissist is thankless, like trying to fill a bottomless pit. They manage to find fault with your efforts or give back-handed compliments, so that you always feel one down. If they're momentarily pleased, they're soon disparaging or asking for more from you. They make their partners experience what it was like having had a cold, invasive, or unavailable narcissistic parent. Anne Rice’s vampire Lestat had just such an emotionally empty mother, who devotedly bonded with him to survive. The deprivation of real nurturing and a lack of boundaries make narcissists dependent on others to feed their insatiable need for validation.
Partners often doubt the narcissist's sincerity and question whether it’s really manipulation, pretense, or a manufactured “as-if” personality. They feel tense and drained from unpredictable tantrums, attacks, false accusations, criticism, and unjustified indignation about small or imaginary slights. These partners also lack boundaries and absorb whatever is said about them as truth. In vain attempts to win approval and stay connected, they sacrifice their needs and walk on eggshells, fearful of displeasing the narcissist. They daily risk blame and punishment, love being withheld, or a rupture in the relationship. They worry what their spouses will think or do, and become as preoccupied with the narcissist as they are with themselves.
Partners have to fit into the narcissists’ cold world and get used to living with emotional abandonment. Soon, they begin to doubt themselves and lose confidence and self-worth. Communicating their disappointment gets twisted and is met with defensive blame or further put-downs. The narcissist can dish it out, but not take it. Nevertheless, many partners stay, because periodically the charm, excitement, and loving gestures that first enchanted them return, especially when the narcissist feels threatened that a breakup is imminent. When two narcissists get together, they fight over whose needs come first, blame and push each other away, yet are miserable needing each other.
Often in these relationships, narcissists are the distancers when more than sex is anticipated. Getting emotionally close means giving up power and control. The thought of being dependent is abhorrent. It not only limits their options and makes them feel weak, but also exposes them to rejection and feelings of shame, which they keep from consciousness at all costs (Lancer, 2014). Their anxious partners pursue them, unconsciously replaying emotional abandonment from their past. Underneath they both feel unlovable.
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