Help finding 4ct round with $35k budget

[diamondsR4eVR]

Who wants the 4ct? You or your girlfriend? OP, at the end of the day I hope you purchase something that makes you both happy, but you have a great budget. I just don’t understand the appeal of it having to be 4ct? It’s none of my business so no need to explain yourself and by all means if you can afford it and she can rock it, go for it! It’s a huge stone and it seems you both are after that.

I guess I’m practical and for that kind of cash I’d reverse my order of Cs and not focus so much on size. With that said, you would still get a great size (above average size stone) with your money. But it’s your money, I’m just here for the journey. GL!

 

[HDer]

IDEX has a few that look interesting:

Asking price: 31890

https://diamonds.s3.amazonaws.com/gia/2203329134.pdf

Asking price: 34974

https://diamonds.s3.amazonaws.com/gia/6342363217.pdf

 

[HDer]

This one is out of your price range, but also looks promising:

Asking price: 40272

https://diamonds.s3.amazonaws.com/gia/2205897540.pdf

 

[Rocko78]

Who wants the 4ct? You or your girlfriend? OP, at the end of the day I hope you purchase something that makes you both happy, but you have a great budget. I just don’t understand the appeal of it having to be 4ct? It’s none of my business so no need to explain yourself and by all means if you can afford it and she can rock it, go for it! It’s a huge stone and it seems you both are after that.

I guess I’m practical and for that kind of cash I’d reverse my order of Cs and not focus so much on size. With that said, you would still get a great size (above average size stone) with your money. But it’s your money, I’m just here for the journey. GL!

Good question and maybe I should have made this more clear. I started off looking at 4ct and had been using this as a reference but realized cut and face dimensions are more important Then weight and have since found 3.5ct stones which look great. I have been learning a great deal from the forum and for sure will make a significantly better choice now.

 

[Rocko78]

This one is out of your price range, but also looks promising:

Asking price: 40272

https://diamonds.s3.amazonaws.com/gia/2205897540.pdf

I will take a look at this. I’m starting to think I should stick with I color or better

 

[lovedogs]

I will take a look at this. I’m starting to think I should stick with I color or better

Is your GF color sensitive? Will having a not pure white diamond stone bother her? If yes, then G/H/I is best, but you're back again to the issue of size.

 

[Rocko78]

I really need to just take her to see the different clarity and colors in person to make a better decision. I was hoping the pix would be enough so she doesn’t see the actual diamond before I propose. Lol.
From PriceScope I figured cut and clarity were more important but the dealers who I have spoken with keep telling me to stay above h.
I think for now I’m just looking at a face of 9.5mm minimum and then will look for the best of the other parameters with minimal fluorescence

 

[HDer]

I will take a look at this. I’m starting to think I should stick with I color or better

Here is the info on Hari Krishna's website: https://classic.hk.co/SearchDetail/SearchDetails?PacketID=e42c1bac-94e8-4104-ad6d-1a3411dc6f28
It's listed for a few bucks less there: 39469.63.

 

[Leekb]

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned ID Jewelry, but Yekutiel is very good at finding beautiful stones within budgets- just ensure you request pricescope quality. Not everyone wants a super ideal diamond- some people just want to get the most bang for their buck. I got my ring from ID Jewelry and while I love it... there is a part of me that wishes I went with a super ideal vendor like those mentioned previously- HP Diamonds, Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, Victor Canera... and I think a super ideal diamond is in my future at some point.

OP you have a very healthy budget and can get an amazing super ideal diamond from any of those vendors.

While I understand wanting to surprise your gf, she should know her preference on colour and things like fluorescence. The setting will also make a difference.

You’ve already taken the first step and reached out to this wonderful community who are all so knowledgeable and helpful.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing what you decide on.

 

[lovedogs]

I really need to just take her to see the different clarity and colors in person to make a better decision. I was hoping the pix would be enough so she doesn’t see the actual diamond before I propose. Lol.
From PriceScope I figured cut and clarity were more important but the dealers who I have spoken with keep telling me to stay above h.
I think for now I’m just looking at a face of 9.5mm minimum and then will look for the best of the other parameters with minimal fluorescence

I think taking her shopping is the best plan. And it doesnt ruin the surprise bc it's not like shes seeing the literal diamond you'll propose with. Good luck!

 

[Leekb]

Victor Canera

www.victorcanera.com

I know you said there was some wiggle room and this was the largest that I found from a super ideal vendor closest to your budget.

 

[HDer]

I really need to just take her to see the different clarity and colors in person to make a better decision. I was hoping the pix would be enough so she doesn’t see the actual diamond before I propose. Lol.
From PriceScope I figured cut and clarity were more important but the dealers who I have spoken with keep telling me to stay above h.
I think for now I’m just looking at a face of 9.5mm minimum and then will look for the best of the other parameters with minimal fluorescence

One of the best decisions I made was choosing a a lower color (L with brown tint) than most people would consider even here on pricescope. I think you need to think about the setting. If it's a platinum solitaire setting, then yes, going H or above might make sense. In my case I had a rose gold halo and going with a lower cut stone literally saved me thousands of dollars for no perceivable difference. Also, cut affects face up color a lot, while body color is judged from the side, so if you get a well cut diamond, it'll face up white even in the lower colors. Look at all of the happy customers of HPDiamonds's lower color stones.

 

[DiamondDust13]

I really wanted to try again to find something with a gia cert. I came accross these two with GIA cert. This one is 4.04ct J vs2 ex polish and ex symmetry and ex cut no fluorescence but $42 610 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2852502

Then I went to the Si and found for $36 260 4.02ct J si1 ex cut ex polish and ex symmetry as well as no flouresence https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6399608

Good luck in your search!

 

[gregchang35]

It is great that you guys are going shopping for modern rounds.... a couple of pointers as mentioned by other posters previously but thought to put it out here for you:

1) the instore lighting will be different to normal flouro tube lighting. If it is possible to view the stone away from those spotlights, it would be of help. The lighting will affect the colour of the stone some what. Also view the stone from the profile or side view. This is because when wearing the ring, most ppl will view the ring top down adn that is the colour you see. But from day to day, the side profile is what the wearer will see most. That MAY or MAYnot influence the colour sensitivity. See as many stones in different colouring as possible - G/H/I/J. I am colour sensitive for an E ring. And, i prefer E colour. Perhaps you may wish to view a colourless range (DEF) but of course it woudl mean a much smaller size stone.
2) the instore lighting will have an effect on the sparkle. IN store lighting are designed to make the stones sparkle. so taking it outside will show you the true representation of the sparkle. and as you have learned here, the HCA tool is great to assess on paper that the stone should sparkle.
3) it sounds like the facet patterning crispness may play a small role. Given the size that you are considering, it would be worth reviewing the different precision/ ideal/ super ideal cut stones prior to going into the store.
4) with fluorescent stones - some like it and some dont. Some think it is an inferior stone which is a great benefit to those that like that effect. Strong or medium fluor stones may have a slight blue tinge when viewing in direct sunlight and def under UV lighting. I,for one, love that effect and have a set of small (3mm) earring made specifically from those kinda stones. ONe stone in each of my eternities have fluor, only by accident. ANd i love that. Not a lot of ppl like that effect. So, it is a personal choice. for an E ring, some woudl steer away from that choice.


It is going to be so much fun and you are geared with alot of information.
So much fun to be had!

enjoy the outing.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I can't read all the replies, but I think I wouldn't deal with Adiamor if they are discouraging you from anything above medium fluorescence and anything lower than H color! Many members here have I color diamonds and lower! It's the best way to get larger stones within budget. I only used B2C to search because they are in NYC and since they can easily access many stones locally, they have lower prices than others.

Personally, sure, I'd rather have I color than J. So if you can go down to the 3 ct range, that will give you more options.

I looked and honestly, it's the strong blue fluorescence that allows you to get under $35k for an almost 3.5 ct I color diamond. I'd go ahead and have them call in that 3.45 ct stone if you think you need a stone that size. I saw that you came up with the carat weight parameters. Does she have sisters or friends with huge diamonds? Is she expecting a 3-4+ ct diamond? What is her finger size?

The problem with taking her to look at diamonds is that no jeweler is going to have any kind of selection of 3+ ct diamonds in stock. And in jewelry store lighting, you can't tell a thing about color. It's not good to look at diamonds that aren't cut well, either, and as you can see, it's not easy to find great cut diamond outside of superideal vendors. I think the safest thing to do would be to get a stone with an unconditional upgrade policy and you can change color, clarity, or weight at any time as long as it costs a dollar more. So I am just tossing this one into the ring because it comes with a great upgrade policy and is a superideal cut, as well. But if you are certain this is smaller than she wants, then skip it.

Diamond | 3.033 ct I VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4264613

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 3.033 carat I color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4264613

www.whiteflash.com

 

[Rocko78]

Yes, her friend got a 4ct cushion and that is how we started at that weight.
I reached out to b2c to get more info about the strong fluorescence stone since It had so many good recommendations here but they were already closed.
im still hoping that stone works out for me

 

[Rocko78]

That 3ct cut above stone doesn’t appear to be much smaller in diameter so if the higher ct diamonds don’t work out I believe I will end up going with what the forum reccomended since the very first few posts

 

[bibliotheque_]

Yes, her friend got a 4ct cushion and that is how we started at that weight.
I reached out to b2c to get more info about the strong fluorescence stone since It had so many good recommendations here but they were already closed.
im still hoping that stone works out for me

For what it is worth, cushions face up smaller than rounds. A 4ct cushion that is bottom heavy may not look much larger than a 3.5 carat round.

 

[diamondsR4eVR]

I can't read all the replies, but I think I wouldn't deal with Adiamor if they are discouraging you from anything above medium fluorescence and anything lower than H color! Many members here have I color diamonds and lower! It's the best way to get larger stones within budget. I only used B2C to search because they are in NYC and since they can easily access many stones locally, they have lower prices than others.

Personally, sure, I'd rather have I color than J. So if you can go down to the 3 ct range, that will give you more options.

I looked and honestly, it's the strong blue fluorescence that allows you to get under $35k for an almost 3.5 ct I color diamond. I'd go ahead and have them call in that 3.45 ct stone if you think you need a stone that size. I saw that you came up with the carat weight parameters. Does she have sisters or friends with huge diamonds? Is she expecting a 3-4+ ct diamond? What is her finger size?

The problem with taking her to look at diamonds is that no jeweler is going to have any kind of selection of 3+ ct diamonds in stock. And in jewelry store lighting, you can't tell a thing about color. It's not good to look at diamonds that aren't cut well, either, and as you can see, it's not easy to find great cut diamond outside of superideal vendors. I think the safest thing to do would be to get a stone with an unconditional upgrade policy and you can change color, clarity, or weight at any time as long as it costs a dollar more. So I am just tossing this one into the ring because it comes with a great upgrade policy and is a superideal cut, as well. But if you are certain this is smaller than she wants, then skip it.

Diamond | 3.033 ct I VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4264613

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 3.033 carat I color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4264613

www.whiteflash.com

This stone will be a knockout and with the upgrade policy it’s a win win, imo.

I have SBF in my ER and I love the effect, but I’ll be honest, I am not sure I would want SBF on a 3-4ct stone. JMO. I had a large I color cushion before and I was very satisfied with the color, but it had no flour.

 

[Mamajemmy]

That 3ct cut above stone doesn’t appear to be much smaller in diameter so if the higher ct diamonds don’t work out I believe I will end up going with what the forum reccomended since the very first few posts

That one from Whiteflash would be a knockout and their upgrade policy is fantastic. You can easily upgrade at any time. Some places make you upgrade by going up in color or clarity or spend twice as much but not Whiteflash. You’d be able to get to that 4ct in no time if that’s important to you— but I think that 3ct will knock your socks off. If I really wanted to surprise someone and have them not see the stone before proposing, that would be the one I would go with.

 

[tyty333]

Here is another "I" from WF. Its an SI1 though so not as clean as the stone DS posted. Still eye-clean and under budget. It's an AGS000 H&A
with Ideal light return (with an excellent upgrade policy). Many people use the upgrade policy for later anniversaries.

You can ask for a picture of the stone DS posted and this stone side-by-side to get an idea of how they compare.

Diamond | 3.058 ct I SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4219825

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 3.058 carat I color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4219825

www.whiteflash.com

 

[dumbo]

Am I dreaming or is it possible to find an eye clean 4ct round stone with a budget of 35k? If so can someone can point me in the right direction please

You aren't dreaming. I got my wife's 4.03ct K Si2 for that (completely eye-clean) for $35k. It is certed GIA XXX but looking at idealscope and other light reflection images, it could pass at AGS 000 if we wanted to pay for the cert. We actually traded in a really nice SI2 I color AGS 000 towards it (2.3ct) and she couldn't be happier. The warmth is BARELY noticeable and doesn't in any way detract from the quality of the stone's light return. The SI2 grade is a non-issue for us: it can't be seen, so why pay for extra clarity if only the cert changes?

I wouldn't be scared away from warmth in a really well cut diamond. She has a M-color pendant from Brian Gavin and even that has only a hint of warmth compared to her J color studs from BG.

To find a stone at this price (well cut of course in a really bright diamond to start with), you will have to be patient and work with a trusted vendor. We waited 6 months to find this one; we worked with a vendor recommended here (Salomon Brothers in Atlanta) that had a full price value trade-up policy and that sold us our 2.3ct I AGS000. You definitely want a pair of trusted trained eyes on the stone, preferably an in-house diamond, before you go through the trouble of having one sent to you.

Our experience though is that a warmer stone (K) in a acceptable clarity (eye-clean Si1 or SI2) and in a top percentile cut can be had for $35k. I would highly recommend it. We also thought about upgrading to a 3.3ct I Si1 (same quality cut at the same price) but next to the 4ct K, she was all over the larger stone.

You really have to do your homework however and use a trusted online vendor. For example, Brian Gavin had a 4ct P color diamond for sale last year under $30,000. While P may be a bit warm for some, for others, that is the perfect ball of fire, and my guess is that 80% of women would prefer that on their finger when held side by side to a, say 2.8ct I color Brian Gavin stone. The problem is that a larger warmer diamond is hard to find initially; some people think a warmer stone is somehow post-it yellow (completely untrue) and discount it out of hand. I think Wink posted something about how many women fall in love with warmer stones when they see them in his showroom; these are people who were budgeting for smaller, more colorless stones but walked out with a K or M or whatever after seeing how bright and how much larger their ring was than the smaller stone they were considering.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

An excellent cut 3.5 ct round will likely look as big or bigger than a 4 ct cushion as others have pointed out, and the light return definitely will be better. So I personally would go to the 3 ct range and get I color rather than getting 4 cts. Most of the time you aren't going around telling people the weight of the diamond anyway. It's the appearance that matters. Overall quality matters...that's why I'd not go for the largest diamond and sacrifice color, clarity, or cut.

 

[Rocko78]

I already spoke to b2c and raised the concerns about the etch channels and possible issues with setting and stability like yssie mentioned. He couldn’t think of any problems but said his gemologist would get back to me.
In the meantime I am deciding between the white flash and James Allen stones that have been listed in this thread just in case I give up on the larger stones (greater then 3.5ct)

 

[Dancing Fire]

For me it would be the biggest G-H VS/SI H&A (inhouse stone) I can find for $35K.

 

[HDer]

I'm going to give some contrarian advice, as I'm often apt to do on these forums. Diamonds are what economists call positional goods. Positional goods are defined as deriving their value primarily from the fact that you can have it and other people can't. After all, diamonds are not unique these days in being sparkly. There are many other substances, natural and manmade, that are just as beautiful. Heck, give an artist a few hundred dollars and they can probably hook you up with a LED array that will sparkle and fire far brighter than any diamond you have ever seen.

So how does that relate to your quest? Well, your fiance-to-be clearly wants a 4 carat diamond. Sure, we can talk until we're blue in the face about how maybe a well cut 3.7 carat will look just as big as a poorly cut 4 carat, but if you buy a 3.7 carat diamond, you will know it, she will know it, and most importantly, sooner or later her friend will know it.

So either pony up the money and get a 4 carat, or relax your specs a bit. The truth is that even trained professionals have a hard time distinguishing between two diamonds with only one color grade of difference unless they're in optimal viewing conditions. Same with many SI grade inclusions. Ask someone who's bought a SI1 or even a SI2 and they'll tell you that it's generally pretty difficult to find the biggest inclusion, even if they know it's there and have a map for it. The chances that a casual bystander will be able to see most SI inclusions (not counting the ones that are a big black ball right in the middle of the diamond) is close to zero.

 

[mrs-b]

Hi @Rocko78 -

Just one quick comment.

I have a 3.05ct F VS2. I also have a 4.07ct S-T VS2 that faces up a very beautiful creamy-white.

The 3.05 was 4 times the price of the 4.07ct and is my favorite and primary diamond. For people who know nothing about diamonds, the 4.07 is all "oooh and aaaah!". But for anyone who knows ANYTHING about diamonds, the 3.05 is the bomb, baby!

My 4.07 is beautifully cut and a gorgeous diamond. But there's more to a diamond than size, and the super whiteness of the 3.05 is eye-popping and highly unusual at that ctw. Smaller size and higher specs are wasted on some people - but not on everybody. You need to work out which category your girlfriend falls into and go from there. It's an important distinction.

 

[bibliotheque_]

Since you're in LA I might recommend dropping by Mark Broumand in DTLA (@Moonie has worked with him), who has a ton of large diamonds on display. His staff is really nice and friendly and you and your gf can try on a variety of sizes of stones. When I stopped by they had everything from 1 carat to 5 carats. She can also really see the difference between a 4 carat cushion and a 3 carat round. I personally loved the look of a 3 carat cushion but found that a 3 carat round looked way too big on me (in my very humble opinion -- I would of course never say no to one if someone offered!!!). Does she want a 4 carat just so she can say she has one like her friends, or did she just like the proportions? If her hands are smaller or bigger than her friend's, that's also something to consider re: impact of stone size if it's really the proportions and not the magic number that matters.

 

[HDer]

When buying positional goods, it's absolutely essential to know who you're positioning them against.

You could spend 6 figures on a Mary Cassatt painting and it would be wasted on 99.9% of the population (but potentially give you cachet among that 0.1%.)

If we took 100 people off the street and asked them to confidently tell us if a diamond ring were an I color or a K color, I doubt we'd do much better than blind luck. I doubt that because a two color grade mistake on a set diamond is a pretty common one even for professional appraisers who have seen thousands of diamonds under repeatable lighting conditions and have a reference set of diamond colors to boot. That's actually one of the reasons why many appraisers insist on unsetting a diamond before grading.

Does that mean nobody should buy I diamonds and everyone should buy K diamonds, which are a third cheaper? Of course not. In some Asian cultures you have to buy the whitest diamond possible, and fluorescence is forbidden. If your wife to be is from one of those cultures I would definitely recommend paying up for the higher color because once again, the main reason for most people to buy diamonds in the first place is social position.

 

[HDer]

This one is K brown, and strong blue but could make an amazing ring: https://narolagems.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?StoneId=184-7

Would want to check in person to see actual face up tint and check for cloudiness, especially with the internal graining.

List price 30.7K from the cutter. For a couple thousand dollars more you should be able to find a jeweler who will get it for you and let you return it if it doesn't look good in person.

EDIT: I have to write a little bit more about this diamond since I'm so enamoured with it.

Why I like it so much: 1. it's a reasonable color. I would be willing to set this in rose gold or yellow gold no problem. 2. It's got a good HCA score and just good proportions in general. 3. It has potentially the best combination of discounts I could think of. First, brown knocks money off of the price, but could actually increase the effective color (brown stones were/are? rated a color grade or two lower than yellow stones, so a brown K could really be equivalent to a yellow J). Second, strong blue knocks money off of the price, but could also increase the effective color because blue and yellow are complementary. Third, it has a black inclusion on the table, but in a corner and of a size that shouldn't be noticeable to the eye, but once again, knocks money off the price. Fourth, it has Very Good polish, which doesn't really affect anything optically, but once again knocks money off of the price because it can't be sold as a 3EX.

So as long as the stone isn't milky and your fiance to be wouldn't be put off by the word "brown" on the certificate, it would be easily 40% cheaper than it would be without all of the stacked "discounts." Oh and did I mention it's 5 carats?